Author Topic: Disaster in Hart for the Corbynites...............  (Read 2338 times)

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Lucy Lass-Tick

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Re: Disaster in Hart for the Corbynites...............
« Reply #15 on: October 12, 2018, 02: PM »
Could yesterday's result indicate that it's a bit too late for that?

fred c

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Re: Disaster in Hart for the Corbynites...............
« Reply #16 on: October 12, 2018, 02: PM »
Unfortunately, can't mock them for saying voting independent is effectively voting UKIP as it is true when some candidates and even subsequent councillors have put themselves forward as UKIP in previous elections. They are politically minded but deny it to get voted in and onto the expenses bandwagon..

Not sure how you arrive at that conclusion 'pieface'......I know lots of people who have always voted labour and would do so again 'IF' the Corbyn Pixies get rid of the SCABS, I also know traditional Tory voters who left the party because of it's connection with labour.

ReturntoZenda

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Re: Disaster in Hart for the Corbynites...............
« Reply #17 on: October 12, 2018, 04: PM »
Can't quite compute that the defeat in Hart means that the SCABAL have seen off the Corbynistas. The candidate up there, along with her crack team of operatives, made great play of her opposition to the current council. It looks more like a rejection of both incarnations of Labour and a welcome move towards local whip-less political power.

jeffh

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Re: Disaster in Hart for the Corbynites...............
« Reply #18 on: October 12, 2018, 06: PM »
Personally I think the Corbynites are about 2 years too late - they have sat by and watched the SCABS go off the rails with Carpetgate, The Tin Shed, 30% allowance increase, denying public scrutiny and questioning, Seaton Parking, Tip Charging etc.

After Dave Riddle didn't stand again and Hart remained Independent only then did they start panicking, but that's just reactive politics which is no use to the people of Hartlepool.  Let's face it they only reacted when they saw the Labour Vote sliding NOT when they were witnessing CAB dismantling the Town's democratic process and costing us a load of money in the process.

As Dave Riddle has already said, in 2019, there are 3 Labour seats destined to go Independent which will reduce the Labours Seats to 15 with 15 Independents and 3 Tory - Maybe this is why CAB is up for an award as he has achieved the unthinkable right in the middle of Tory austerity.

What we need is an Independent Council in power to bring the Dynamic Duo to account as we all know that a Labour Council would simply bury it as they head South to Brighton - maybe they are going to do the same to the Green Party starting by swapping the Royal Sussex Hospital for a big bus then we know what happens after that

fred c

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Re: Disaster in Hart for the Corbynites...............
« Reply #19 on: October 12, 2018, 07: PM »
Very neatly summed up jeffh.......I couldn't disagree with a single word.  :)

Inspector Knacker

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Re: Disaster in Hart for the Corbynites...............
« Reply #20 on: October 12, 2018, 08: PM »
I'm afraid the much heralded change is looking more like a very gradual change and just more of the same old story choreographed to look like a new dawn. Ah well.

DRiddle

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Re: Disaster in Hart for the Corbynites...............
« Reply #21 on: October 12, 2018, 09: PM »
I think also the Labour team in Hart shot themselves in the foot somewhat by publicising the apparent link between the Hartlepool Independent Group (HIG) and UKIP. There are/were around 10,000 UKIP voters in Hartlepool and there were more than 18,000 people in Hartlepool who voted to leave the EU. Granted not all Brexit voters vote UKIP, but obviously all UKIP voters voted Brexit. Iím no fan of UKIP and any long term reader of this forum knows that. But if I was trying to get elected in Hartlepool the last thing Iíd do would be to openly alienate myself from a large proportion of voters. 70% of the Hartlepool electorate seemingly disliked the EU enough to vote leave, and yet Labour in Hart put a lot of emphasis on painting the HIG candidate as a ukipper. That tactic may actually have GAINED the HIG candidate votes.

mk1

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Re: Disaster in Hart for the Corbynites...............
« Reply #22 on: October 12, 2018, 10: PM »
The Comrades were in full 'Madelson is  a slime ball' mood last week when Brash stepped in to defend his mate. 




I am afraid Brash is deluding himself if he believes his sentiments:

'Hearing and engaging with arguments and people with which/whom we do not agree is integral to strengthening our own beliefs and ideas.
Simplifying things down to black/white, good/bad, new/old is just a way of shutting down that debate. '
Letís have some nuance in discussion and believe the best in people.


have any place in a Party that routinely labels every Tory as a 'Cnut' and is actively purging anyone who is not 100% totally supportive of the Great Leader Jeremy and his every utterance.




« Last Edit: October 12, 2018, 10: PM by mk1 »

Land Phil

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Re: Disaster in Hart for the Corbynites...............
« Reply #23 on: October 13, 2018, 12: AM »
What has possessed Brash to return like unwanted indigestion?

Is he lining himself up to fill the Gucci slippers of the allegedly  Brighton bound ?


Inspector Knacker

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Re: Disaster in Hart for the Corbynites...............
« Reply #24 on: October 13, 2018, 05: AM »
The Comrades were in full 'Madelson is  a slime ball' mood last week when Brash stepped in to defend his mate. 




I am afraid Brash is deluding himself if he believes his sentiments:

'Hearing and engaging with arguments and people with which/whom we do not agree is integral to strengthening our own beliefs and ideas.
Simplifying things down to black/white, good/bad, new/old is just a way of shutting down that debate. '
Letís have some nuance in discussion and believe the best in people.


have any place in a Party that routinely labels every Tory as a 'Cnut' and is actively purging anyone who is not 100% totally supportive of the Great Leader Jeremy and his every utterance.
Reading those exchanges shows that nothing really changes. The same old belief from the kids that they've found the way to political perfection and why has no one spotted it before now, aren't we clever delusion. Then there's the crusty gibbering of the old guard, the sort who get excited over a night printing election leaflets, arguing over their cherished vision of the toad to a social paradise, completely unaware their touch with reality is tenuous to say the least.
They're all addicts to 'inspiring visions' and we all know visions are eithout substance.
They'll change nothing, zealots never do, and their dithering predecessors are world class at mediocrity in  achieving nothing in office. Daydream believers.

DRiddle

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Re: Disaster in Hart for the Corbynites...............
« Reply #25 on: October 13, 2018, 07: AM »
Iíd love to have a listen to Carl explain what he thinks WOULD be to way forward. In terms of the political or economic model he thinks the country should move toward, Iím all ears Carl.

Likewise with Anth Frain. If neoliberalism has failed, what IS the answer? (Iím not saying Iím a fan on neoliberalism Anth, Iím not, but whatís the answer?).

The beast that is Ďcapitalismí is a very VERY big global beast now. Re-nationalising a few train lines or whatever will be like a small fly buzzing around the ar** end of a cow. The cow will barely notice.

If thereís some sort of Ďgrand planí to save Hartlepool by localised protectionism or to create an isolated far left utopia, letís hear the plan.
Over to you Carl. What have you got?

Do we build a replica of the Granma yatch and sail down South smoking cigars to meet up with some like minded comrades?






DRiddle

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Re: Disaster in Hart for the Corbynites...............
« Reply #26 on: October 13, 2018, 09: AM »
Apparently Aileen Kendon has been effectively told she can 'pick any seat she wants' for Labour 2019 or 2020. Impressed by her campaign and spirit etc. the forces working from within to change the Labour group want her on board. It'll be an interesting test of her principles to see which one she picks. Does she fight the one she lives in and where she's heavily involved in a residents association or does she opt to stand in a safer more winnable one such as Manor or De Bruce?  Having been challenged myself on the 'only stand in the ward you live in' comment, she's put herself in an interesting predicament.

Her election literature flagged up she lived in the ward and the HIG candidate didn't. Does she try to win Hart for a THIRD time or jump across to a safer target? To lose Hart twice back to back so quickly suggests the safer option is to jump.


jeffh

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Re: Disaster in Hart for the Corbynites...............
« Reply #27 on: October 13, 2018, 10: AM »
Apparently Aileen Kendon has been effectively told she can 'pick any seat she wants' for Labour 2019 or 2020. Impressed by her campaign and spirit etc. the forces working from within to change the Labour group want her on board. It'll be an interesting test of her principles to see which one she picks. Does she fight the one she lives in and where she's heavily involved in a residents association or does she opt to stand in a safer more winnable one such as Manor or De Bruce?  Having been challenged myself on the 'only stand in the ward you live in' comment, she's put herself in an interesting predicament.

Her election literature flagged up she lived in the ward and the HIG candidate didn't. Does she try to win Hart for a THIRD time or jump across to a safer target? To lose Hart twice back to back so quickly suggests the safer option is to jump.
If she jumps she can stay as Secretary of the Bishop Cuthbert Residents' Association - or if she contests and wins Hart will she, in true HBC fashion, change the rules so she can stay for the better good?

Lucy Lass-Tick

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Re: Disaster in Hart for the Corbynites...............
« Reply #28 on: October 13, 2018, 10: AM »
Suspect she'll follow Ms. Marshall's example - keep trying till you find a ward that'll have you.

mk1

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Re: Disaster in Hart for the Corbynites...............
« Reply #29 on: October 13, 2018, 10: AM »
Suspect she'll follow Ms. Marshall's example - keep trying till you find a ward that'll have you.
Perhaps she can replace Barclay or Sandra. Then that ward will be in line for the special Labour initiative where a ward with a prospective Labour  Candidate has in effect a  '4th Councillor' with all the access to the levers of power formerly only in the gift of an elected Councillor.