It's been hinted at on here and on other social media platforms, so let's just kick this one around.
It seems inevitable Labour will formally support a second referendum as I said all along they've end up doing.
The stars are now aligning for a major battle in traditional Labour heartlands between Labour and the Brexit party.
This has already happened at European level and depending on what actually happens in October with the proposed withdrawal, it's also a battle that's likely to play out at local level in council seats and at national level in the general election.
Hartlepool looks certain to be a microcosm of this battle.
So . . . At what point do significant numbers of the current crop of councillors break cover and announce they're joining the Brexit Party?
The only thing that will save some of them in 2020s all outs is public support which outweighs the anger at the coalition and the scab association.
Hartlepool has a core of around 10,000-15,000 Brexit voters. That's enough to sweep the board in 2020.
I 'joked' about Farage as a candidate for MP for Hartlepool a while back. I'd say it's a distinct possibility him or someone else heavily associated with that crowd could pose a big threat.
So if/when this does happen (HIU and others rebrand as the Brexit party) where will the scabs fit into all of this?
Will they be so brazen they just join them formally, moving from hard left to right of centre within weeks?
Even SAB, who actually led the remain campaign for Labour in Hartlepool. Lol
Crazy CRAZY times.
I think you are being a little harsh on the coalition (IU and the Tories). Give them a chance to show us what they can do before passing judgement.
As for 'association ' with the SCABs. I see no formal association. Surely the SCABs being involved is their right to do do so because they are members of a party within the Council.
The party to blame for their involvement is the Labour Party. Is it not the case that they are the ones who haven't nominated any of their candidates for Chairs because of article X (as you have referred to) in the party rules forbidding them to co-operate with an Independent majority?
Quote from: Hartlepudlion on May 29, 2019, 09: AM
I think you are being a little harsh on the coalition (IU and the Tories). Give them a chance to show us what they can do before passing judgement.
As for 'association ' with the SCABs. I see no formal association. Surely the SCABs being involved is their right to do do so because they are members of a party within the Council.
The party to blame for their involvement is the Labour Party. Is it not the case that they are the ones who haven't nominated any of their candidates for Chairs because of article X (as you have referred to) in the party rules forbidding them to co-operate with an Independent majority?
Harsh? Just a bit. Some had the burning torches and pitchforks out without standing back & seeing how certain elements within (and sympathetic to) the Labour group have manipulated public opinion.
It seems that certain people just have to voice a vague, totally unsubstantiated theory and all of a sudden social media declares it to be valid. In my opinion, what's been touted as 'truth' by the faithful and their supporters has been anything but - and the skulduggery's been obscured by whipping people up into a frenzy.
What I do know for certain is the HIU formed a coalition with the Tories. Approximately 2% of the total Hartlepool electorate vote Tory at local level.
I also know the HIU were presented with a binary choice between James Black and Christopher Akers-Belcher to chair regeneration and opted for the latter.
The HIU hoovered up votes because they presented themselves very overtly as 'anti-scab'. They then granted him some elements of power.
I personally have my eyes wide open and feel I have a reputation for stating my own views which often chime with the overall feeling of the electorate.
For me, the HIG have fallen at the first hurdle in what they did regarding CAB.
Only a Brexit party rebrand will save them . . . Watch this space.
My crystal ball is obviously low on batteries, then ... I, for one, don't know what the HIU's future plans might be. After just seven days at the helm there's every chance that they haven't got that far themselves. But, unlike some, I'd rather not be judgemental and prefer to wait and see rather than present supposition as facts.
Quote from: Lucy Lass-Tick on May 29, 2019, 11: AM
My crystal ball is obviously low on batteries, then ... I, for one, don't know what the HIU's future plans might be. After just seven days at the helm there's every chance that they haven't got that far themselves. But, unlike some, I'd rather not be judgemental and prefer to wait and see rather than present supposition as facts.
Pretend it was a move by Labour and then work out why they (Labour) would need to give CAB a Chair.
Then pretend you are a Labour supporter and make a list of reasons explaining this was a good move for the town.
Compare this list of Labour 'reasons' with Shane's 'reasons'.
Whilst you are at it compare the way Doc Pothole was castigated for using Hartlepool as a stepping stone to get to higher office and then compare it to Tennant's actions.
Quote from: DRiddle on May 29, 2019, 10: AM
What I do know for certain is the HIU formed a coalition with the Tories. Approximately 2% of the total Hartlepool electorate vote Tory at local level.
I also know the HIU were presented with a binary choice between James Black and Christopher Akers-Belcher to chair regeneration and opted for the latter.
The HIU hoovered up votes because they presented themselves very overtly as 'anti-scab'. They then granted him some elements of power.
I personally have my eyes wide open and feel I have a reputation for stating my own views which often chime with the overall feeling of the electorate.
For me, the HIG have fallen at the first hurdle in what they did regarding CAB.
Only a Brexit party rebrand will save them . . . Watch this space.
Anyone thinking that voting 'hartlepool ndependent' was actually for a real independent are fickle. You are right the announcements of suddenly becoming Brexit party instead or independent is just around the corner!
Just re-calling this thread ;)
Careful David
You may just find the entire thread gets deleted.
Is there any truth in the Facebook post that 10 councillors have joined the Brexit party and formed coalition with the 3Tories to take controll of the council or is it just a windup ?
So this has apparently occurred! What happens after 31st October when the 'reason' for the Brexit Party existing is no more?
What influence can any Brexit Party cllrs do to influence Brexit in anyway shape or form?
Some of them must surely be running out of colours to nail to the mast...
I think it would be very embarrassing for anyone to delete this thread, especially when you look at the scepticism my opening post was initially met with.
If you could NOT see this coming, you need to give your head a bit of a shake.
Anyway, it's going to get ugly as I predicted.
You'll now see Farage use Hartlepool as a barometer to demonstrate to the Tories the advantage of the pact they're proposing with the Tories at national level.
If, and I personally think it WILL happen, the Tories stand down in 60-90 labour heartlands such as Hartlepool, Labour will be in massive trouble in terms of the number of seats they'll occupy after a general election.
Even more interesting will be to watch the pound absolutely tank in value if we do leave the EU without a deal, and the 70% of people in Hartlepool who voted for Brexit are then hit very hard by the devalued pound.
Crazy times as always, but oh so predictable if you strip away any of your own political leanings and judge the situation in front of you.
So how long before Mike Hill holds up a piece of paper saying how terrible this is ?
I am a fan of socialism especially as so many have been hurt by Tory greed but Mike Hill is a sitting duck waiting to be picked off.
I get the impression he has been keeping his own seat warm at his old union office.
There's little or nothing Mike Hill can say to this. If he speaks out against it and condemns it, he most likely galvanises the leave voters and pushes them even further towards the Brexit party.
Likewise is he says nothing, he just leaves traditional Labour voters even more confused by his/labours position on the EU issue.
I've been saying for more than two years on here that despite the manifesto pledges to honour the referendum result, labour would eventually arrive at supporting a second referendum nationally.
That national position leaves Mike Hill with an almost impossible task in Hartlepool.
an impossible task for hill is to string four words together without one of them being errr ::)
as a speaker he is a waste of space
Quote from: mk1 on July 26, 2019, 04: PM
Quote from: DRiddle on July 26, 2019, 04: PM
If that happens, and the local Brexit party does emerge and absorbs the HIU.................It's not beyond the realms of possibility Hartlepool will have a brexit party MP.....................
.
What do you mean 'if'?
Its 100% certain that the IU is Farage stalking Horse. It is absolutely certain they will fight any GE as Farage Stooges and it was the plan before the last election. Tennant is a senior member of Farage's bandwagon and the prospective Farage Candidate for Hartlepool has already been chosen. They will not reveal who it is because that would give the game away and finally destroy the fiction of an 'Independent' Council.
Polls have shown that the obsessive Brexiteers are quite prepared to see the UK break up to get their fantasy. When people are that myopic then we are indeed in for a rough ride.
Of course all this speculation can be ended quite easily by Shane publicly stating he will never join, stand for, campaign for or have anything to do with the Farage Bandwagon.
I knew it, my dog knew it and nearly everyone here knew it but they pretended they didn't. It was so obvious but in the clamour to crow about the Labour defeat they were prepared to overlook it.
This was the plan right from the start and the IU took a decision to keep it hidden until they thought it was safe to end the deception. I will go further. Most of the posters on the Post Facebook will not make a fuss about it because it is what they want. Welcome to the Land of hypocrisy!
Quote from: DRiddle on September 12, 2019, 06: PM
If, and I personally think it WILL happen, the Tories stand down in 60-90 labour heartlands such as Hartlepool, Labour will be in massive trouble in terms of the number of seats they'll occupy after a general election.
It is a double-edged weapon. Labour could do the same in seats where they have no chance and the Libs are second.
This is the way politics is heading. The Republicans in North Carolina used a very dirty trick to force through tax cuts for their Donors.
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2019/09/north-carolina-republicans-used-an-insane-dirty-trick-to-cut-corporate-taxes/
There was an article in The Financial Times 2 days ago that was about Brexit voters in 'Northern Communities'
https://www.ft.com/content/b2f15064-d3a1-11e9-a0bd-ab8ec6435630
It was repeated in The i today with one slight change. The photo of Consett was replaced with this one:
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/924/b6UXf5.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/pob6UXf5j)
It is marked as a 'Getty Image' which means the newspaper asked for a stock photo of a 'deprived Northern Community' and Getty have a Hartlepool image marked as such. We are famous!
Without a clear simple message on Brexit, Labour are going to be in trouble at the next GE. But they are a Leave Party. First and foremost, they want to negotiate the best Brexit deal they can. Mike will be articulating Labour's Leave credentials in his election communications I'm sure, and therefore Hartlepool Leave voters will have to choose between the Tories, Labour, The Brexit Party and Socialist Labour.
I don't have a problem voting for a Brexit candidate, whatever peoples feelings are the majority of the electorate voted leave, members of parliament had an obligation to fullfil that result, they have taken 3 years squirming and wriggling to keep us in the EU.
What the last three years has shown is that politics in this country is broken, there isn't a picking between all parties, lies and disinformation have plagued the Brexit issue from the start the politicians have ended up putting democracy into the hands of the judiciary.
Locally I don't give flying flamingo who runs the council as long as they focus their interest on their wards and the town and most definitely 'Not on their Party'.
I like everyone else I was hoping for a coalition council who collaborated on putting Hartlepool first, sadly the first council meeting proved that was never going to happen, what was also apparent was that the labour councillors and the Pixies would be as obstructive as possible during the rest of the council year and so far they have.
Quote from: fred c on September 15, 2019, 07: PM
I don't have a problem voting for a Brexit candidate, whatever peoples feelings are the majority of the electorate voted leave, members of parliament had an obligation to fullfil that result, they have taken 3 years squirming and wriggling to keep us in the EU.
I think you will find the reason we have not already left with a deal is JRM and the Spartans. It is them who blocked May's deal and it is them who destroyed the Tory Party in their quest for ideological purity.
Let me repeat that. It is the 'No Deal' zealots who kept us in.
Quote from: fred c on September 15, 2019, 07: PM
What the last three years has shown is that politics in this country is broken, there isn't a picking between all parties, lies and disinformation have plagued the Brexit issue from the start the politicians have ended up putting democracy into the hands of the judiciary.
That was always the case. Judges have been the last resort when contentious issues are raised. Look at how different Government Agencies/Councils have had to change (for example)a Benefits policy because it was deemed unlawful. Look up Judicial Review.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judicial_review_in_English_law
It worked that way for centuries. What is happening now is those who find Judges do not agree with them are trying to destroy the Courts in order to get their way. They want to wreck the system because they believe they and they alone should get their way and everyone else can go fcuck themselves. Its the extreme 'winner takes all' mentality.
By the way can anyone show me a case where the Judges ruled against a Remainer (there have been several) and the Remainer newspaper had front page headlines calling Judges triators? Just one example so we can see that 'both sides do it'
This attempt to cow the courts is unprecedented .It shows how far some people are prepared to go to force their extreme views on the general public.
Quote from: fred c on September 15, 2019, 07: PM
I like everyone else I was hoping for a coalition council who collaborated on putting Hartlepool first, sadly the first council meeting proved that was never going to happen, what was also apparent was that the labour councillors and the Pixies would be as obstructive as possible during the rest of the council year and so far they have.
I agree Labour have been obstructive but I can also saw the IU deliberately lie and they never were anything like Independent. I said it from the beginning they were always going to be Farage stooges and they lacked the courage to come out and say it. We had Shane here a few weeks back desperately trying to explain away why he was pictured beaming in the background when Farage visited The Marina. If you check the film you can see him realise he is in shot and he moves away from the camera. Who could for a second believe the mainly EX-UKIP councillors
and the elected Euro MP for the Brexit Party were not going to join
UKIP MkII The Brexit Party? It was glaringly obvious and anyone who says it came as a surprise is either naive in the extreme of terminally stupid. If however an extreme Brexit means that much to someone they are prepared to countenance any trick or deception to that end just come out and say it. Admit that rules only apply to those whose politics you don't support.
Like Trump Boris simply runs a mile from anything that detracts from his 'hugely popular man-of-the-people' myth:
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/boris-johnson-booed-luxembourg-protest_uk_5d7f8e7ee4b03b5fc886f7d1
I reckon we're now less than 48 hours away from Labour doing what I said they'd do over two years ago and amending the withdrawal agreement to include a second referendum. I'd say given around 2 million leave voters have died since the first one and a million+ remain voters have reached voting age, there's a long way to go yet.
Labour, a middle class yapping party who actually think they empathise with the Working Class. A bunch of spitting image characters. I was brought up Labour, shop steward and still active in my union and don't recognise these people as Labour.
P.S.
Any situation that sees the death of voters (patronisingly assuming they automatically leave) as a positive to a cause and the arrival of shiny eyed new voters (who apparently all vote leave) is a despicable piece of straw grasping. A toxic mixture of preening smugness and desperation.
Quote from: Inspector Knacker on October 22, 2019, 05: AM
Any situation that sees the death of voters (patronisingly assuming they automatically leave) as a positive to a cause and the arrival of shiny eyed new voters (who apparently all vote leave) is a despicable piece of straw grasping. A toxic mixture of preening smugness and desperation.
How do you feel about Brexiteer rabble-rousers who threaten violence if they don't get their way?
This is Tony Parson good old Essex boy that he is.............
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/922/sQ0Hys.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/pmsQ0Hysj)
Strange - I don't read that piece as threatening violence. More like observing that it could happen.
Quote from: mk1 on October 22, 2019, 06: AM
Quote from: Inspector Knacker on October 22, 2019, 05: AM
Any situation that sees the death of voters (patronisingly assuming they automatically leave) as a positive to a cause and the arrival of shiny eyed new voters (who apparently all vote leave) is a despicable piece of straw grasping. A toxic mixture of preening smugness and desperation.
How do you feel about Brexiteer rabble-rousers who threaten violence if they don't get their way?
This is Tony Parson good old Essex boy that he is.............
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/922/sQ0Hys.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/pmsQ0Hysj)
Taken totally out of context. Why this constant jack in the box reaction, this tit for tat bombarding with irrelevant, speculative scaremongering.
Quote from: Inspector Knacker on October 22, 2019, 06: PM
Taken totally out of context.
I have the whole article if you want it posted. I always keep copies of useful stuff.
Well just carry on keeping it.
Quote from: Inspector Knacker on October 22, 2019, 07: PM
Well just carry on keeping it.
I always do. Its very handy when those who don't want to hear it start making spurious claims it is 'out of context'.Once they know I have the context they tend to become less challenging and drop the subject............
It's a newspaper cutting, hardly the Ipcress Files.