Is there any way we can get to talking about the politic of the town. Each post turns in to a rant about personality rather than the topic itself.
Those elected to serve the town do as they please and without a strong opposition they are mandated to do that - to do as they please. There are a majority in the town who vote in the same box each time, no matter who is put up to represent them but why should they vote differently?
No one gives them an opposing view - this site could but the slagging match just makes people switch off.
It's about time the 'opposition' work together to attempt to bring change. If the Tory's can do everything to side with labour then why can't the rest of the councillors join to let the voters know exactly what is going on? The electorate believe what they read in the Mail and as we know it only prints the stuff the HBC send them. This need to change. Before anyone comments on it's 5000 circulation- 5000 votes are very powerful in the right hands. Stop the slagging and get on with the discussion to bring about change.
Good post...... there are a few people who use the site for their own peculiar reasons, they don't bring anything of their own to the forum, but seem to get a perverse buzz from trolling people who do.
The idea of the opposition in the council chamber forming a loosely based coalition to put forward motions & present a unified opposition to some of the pisspotical stuff brought forward by the mob, is on the surface a reasonable idea.
There is however the problem of them actually formulating motions & getting them to stand together against the ruling group, there is also the problem of the constitutional changes that have recently been instigated by the LabTor coalition, of cutting the time available to make & debate motions.
Thursdays meeting was a case in point, the biggest political decision for Hartlepool for the next 20 was a farce, councillors were restricted to a 3 minute time limit to any contribution they wanted to make on the motion, that was enforced by the dictatorial attitude of the Chairman/Mayor in not allowing any discretion to speakers trying to make a point.
It sticks out like a sore thumb, the ruling group with the acquiescence of some senior officers of the council have disenfranchised the public of Hartlepool from the electorate, look no further than the new seating arrangements....... Councilors now have their Backs to the public & although there is only a Tape Barrier, it has under HBC taken on the significance of the Berlin Wall.
Hartlepool really does deserve better.
Quote from: Monkeys mate on November 29, 2016, 11: AM
5000 votes are very powerful in the right hands. Stop the slagging and get on with the discussion to bring about change.
All the while Labour are allowed unfettered access to the Old Peoples Homes nothing will change.
Quote from: mk1 on November 29, 2016, 12: PM
Quote from: Monkeys mate on November 29, 2016, 11: AM
5000 votes are very powerful in the right hands. Stop the slagging and get on with the discussion to bring about change.
All the while Labour are allowed unfettered access to the Old Peoples Homes nothing will change.
Can't argue with that train of thought..... it could be that a care home manger happens to be a Labour supporter :) :)
I can understand your frustration but then again, the points you raise about the state of hartlepool council would probably be unknown to you were it not for this site.
I agree with you all.
I wasn't really thinking of a formal coalition, more of a united public face against the current leading party.
I voted ukip at the last election. I hated it, I didn't want to but it was tactical vote to prevent the election of a labour candidate. I'm not here to create an argument between real ukip and protest ukip but pooling of opposition, tactical opponents to labour candidates etc. All above the law of obviously. Publicity re what the council are doing etc
And yes, I do find out a lot on here but I am aware of a fair bit that goes on and you don't need a website or a hartlepool Mail to see what the council have done to the town. Unfortunately, it is my belief that a large proportion of the public don't link the issues in the town with the voting booth. They blame U.K. Plc for what happened in our town and the councillors are just their to make sure the grass gets cut. As the Mail once pointed out, years ago we used to hang the monkey now we just keep voting for them.......( and that was pre elected mayor )
"As the Mail once pointed out, years ago we used to hang the monkey now we just keep voting for them.......( and that was pre elected mayor )"
The Mail said that? I find it hard to believe
Quote from: Monkeys mate on November 29, 2016, 02: PM
I agree with you all.
I wasn't really thinking of a formal coalition, more of a united public face against the current leading party.
I voted ukip at the last election. I hated it, I didn't want to but it was tactical vote to prevent the election of a labour candidate. I'm not here to create an argument between real ukip and protest ukip but pooling of opposition, tactical opponents to labour candidates etc. All above the law of obviously. Publicity re what the council are doing etc
And yes, I do find out a lot on here but I am aware of a fair bit that goes on and you don't need a website or a hartlepool Mail to see what the council have done to the town. Unfortunately, it is my belief that a large proportion of the public don't link the issues in the town with the voting booth. They blame U.K. Plc for what happened in our town and the councillors are just their to make sure the grass gets cut. As the Mail once pointed out, years ago we used to hang the monkey now we just keep voting for them.......( and that was pre elected mayor )
When you have one of the biggest decisions the town has ever made being rail-roaded in front of you it's hard to understand why the largest opposition party could just bottle it and abstain.
When you have one of the biggest decisions the town has ever made being rail-roaded in front of you it's hard to understand why the largest opposition party could just bottle it and abstain
Couldn't agree more. I know that each person should have their own opinion but abstention en masses does nothing. A chance to stand up against something - and an opportunity missed for the future where they can say 'we tried to block it' Now all they can say is we didn't really have an opinion either way
Quote from: Steely Dan on November 29, 2016, 02: PM
"As the Mail once pointed out, years ago we used to hang the monkey now we just keep voting for them.......( and that was pre elected mayor )"
The Mail said that? I find it hard to believe
I can tell you what was said after the election of the monkey, that the election was an irrelevance as what the public were simply saying was none of the others.
The Labour coronation was put on ice.
The trouble has always been when in the polling booth people resort to voting for the party rather than the candidate, as most would fail to get elected even if no one stood against them.
Quote from: Monkeys mate on November 29, 2016, 02: PM
I voted ukip at the last election. I hated it, I didn't want to but it was tactical vote to prevent the election of a labour candidate. I'm not here to create an argument between real ukip and protest ukip
UKIP tricked you. They made a lot of promises but in the end what matters to them is national profile. They see Hartlepool as a stepping-stone to a Westminster seat and nothing, absolutely nothing, is going to get in the way of that dream.
As such they have decided on a policy of making no mistakes. Given how gaffe-prone the membership are the only way that can be delivered is by saying and doing nothing. The useless councillors are there to keep the brand in play and nothing else. The councillors have been ordered to do nowt. Giving the quality of some of them that would be an improvement. Sorry folks but UKIP are just your normal two-faced political party who couldn't give a feck about anything other than themselves. Party first, last and everything in between.
Monkeys Mate ,if you vote for a Kipper,don't want to cause arguments amongst Kippers,and don't believe that the vast amount of cuts are due to this Tory government ,then you probably are a Kipper.
See my other reply on the 'Public questions' thread. If this site achieves nothing else, it contributed significantly to a corrupt council getting her just deserts.
Anyone who votes for UKIP has been seriously duped in many ways. Farage is a self-promoting conman, a huge proportion of the members are closet racists, the vast majority are horrible bigots and their new leader Eddie Hitler wants more privatisation on the NHS. So, if you put your X in the UKIP box then that's what you're supporting.
Quote from: Riddler5 on November 29, 2016, 03: PM
Quote from: Steely Dan on November 29, 2016, 02: PM
"As the Mail once pointed out, years ago we used to hang the monkey now we just keep voting for them.......( and that was pre elected mayor )"
The Mail said that? I find it hard to believe
I can tell you what was said after the election of the monkey, that the election was an irrelevance as what the public were simply saying was none of the others.
The Labour coronation was put on ice.
The trouble has always been when in the polling booth people resort to voting for the party rather than the candidate, as most would fail to get elected even if no one stood against them.
Come on, you can't have it both ways. If people vote for a party then why did they vote for Drummond? That act of breathtaking stupidity by the Hartlepool thickos has led to all the problems we see now.
Drummond was a joke but he then took himself seriously when he saw the salary. Despite showing he was spectacularly incompetent, the fools voted for him again.
I'm still waiting for someone to name one positive thing Drummond did for Hartlepool.
You have to wonder at Shane's silence in the Chamber. After years of being put down by Wells he has the perfect opportunity to highlight his duplicity yet he remains silent.
Why is one who was vocal when powerless mute when given the weapons with which he could strike back?
Methinks Shane is being leaned on.
I'm not a kipper by any means. I also wasn't posting to just let people have a go at me. I have no interest in ukip nationally. My tactical vote (I thought I pointed it out) was down to a presumption that the headland and harbour ward would be close and therefore I hoped if I went tactically, EVEN THOUGH I DO NOT SUPPORT UKIP (not sure if that's clear enough?) that another labour councillor could be stopped. Perhaps not everyone would understand tactical voting but it could be used effectively.
My origin post was related to a site such as this, having some ability to inform people of the issues and their options rather than just somewhere that people come to get abused by others.
MM....... good points well made, an awful lot of voters chose the option you have outlined, including myself, Hartlepool is now in the position of 'anybody will be better than labour'.
What is really needed now, is for the UKIP councilors to make a more concerted challenge to the LabTor Mob, they have yet to form any any policy that will unite all opposition councillors against the coalition council.
True story, I heard a couple of old dears on the Headland say they voted for Labour as that was the only candidate that shut the gate.
They were also unable to connect the 4% council tax rise to Hartlepool Labour.
It is an uphill challenge.
Quote from: fred c on November 30, 2016, 12: PM
MM....... good points well made, an awful lot of voters chose the option you have outlined, including myself, Hartlepool is now in the position of 'anybody will be better than labour'.
That was my logic also- without opening a can of worms and facing a barrage of abuse I am pro brexit-my choice but I think UKIP are retarded and of no value other than they had a chance to challenge the Labour ( a true miss use of the word) party in Hartlepool that controls the Clowncil. I despise the conduct of the likes of Mr and Mrs + Crannible. What is lacking in Hartlepool is accountability, so many promises, denials and lies that are simply brushed under the carpet by the giggling blonde buffoon ( just watch how he behaves in the council video) and his pet orangutang.
Openness........ Transparency.........Accountability
3 words that were at the core of the Peer Review Groups report on HBC several years ago, unfortunately for the council tax payers that report was met with total disdain by the powers that be & was subsequently forgotten about.
Quote from: Monkeys mate on November 30, 2016, 11: AM
I'm not a kipper by any means. I also wasn't posting to just let people have a go at me. I have no interest in ukip nationally. My tactical vote (I thought I pointed it out) was down to a presumption that the headland and harbour ward would be close and therefore I hoped if I went tactically, EVEN THOUGH I DO NOT SUPPORT UKIP (not sure if that's clear enough?) that another labour councillor could be stopped. Perhaps not everyone would understand tactical voting but it could be used effectively.
My origin post was related to a site such as this, having some ability to inform people of the issues and their options rather than just somewhere that people come to get abused by others.
Fair comments. Was a vote for an independent of PHF not an option?
Is there any point in this site ? That's a definite yes to the question.
You keep asking questions and keep asking questions on top of questions.
I guess you get me in that one Riddler5
I would just love to see some real political change in the town and would love to have seen ukip do something with their privileged position but no, they wasted it. I have also felt that recently there are a few on here who aren't interested in what people say, they just want to attack.
I do accept that only PHF and independent have shown any conviction in their beliefs in the council. Labour councillors just have a pack mentality and our conservative councillors may as well switch sides as they also vote en masse with labour. The town needs some people who want to see it improve and not just as a way of inflating their own egos
MM. What is this privileged position you talk about with UKIP. What are these PHF beliefs you talk of?
Me asking the questions now. I'm genuinely interested in your answers
I think we will see exactly why this site is a very important point of focus for Hartlepool & it's residents on Friday.
Not 1& I mean, Not 1 of the LabMob made any effort whatsoever in caling for an inquiry into the biggest voluntary / charity sector scandal seen in Hartlepool, the councillors involved as 'Trustees' with the organisation concerned didn't bother their a***'s in carrying out their duties as 'Trustees'.
What they did do very quickly after the police became involved, was to deny the fact they were actually 'Trustees' despite it being listed on their register of interests.
Not 1 word of condemnation of the scandal or its perpetrators, not 1 word of support for the abused employees of the organisation from any of the pseudo socialists that sat in the council chamber with the perpetrator & counted that person as a friend.
Hartlepool realy does deserve better.
Sites like this don't achieve stunning victories or dramatically change things, they nibble away over time at the foundations.
The structure on the foundations looks solid till it starts to crack up..
Quote from: Steely Dan on November 30, 2016, 07: PM
MM. What is this privileged position you talk about with UKIP. What are these PHF beliefs you talk of?
Me asking the questions now. I'm genuinely interested in your answers
The privileged position I talk of is one of being a councillor. To be in a position to make a positive change in the town, to benefit the people of the town and see improvement, investment and development, not only of its environment but also of the lives of those who live here.
I do believe that anyone who want to stand for election should do so for these or similar reasons. However, i feel as though the majority of the labour/Tory councillors are there for those reasons or anything like them. It feels as though they are there for different reasons and that power and title appears to be a high motivating factor for them.
As for your questions about PHF i don't know them personal but from what I read and see they do try to stand up against the majority party in the council - as you would hope opposition would do. Importantly I believe they do this in a genuine fashion, attempting to point out some of the hypocrisy and rubbish that comes out of the minds of some of our elected members minds.
Riddler5 I agree with that, it is a bit by bit approach and change takes time. I hope that you and others like you can continue as an opposing voice and continue to highlight the inaccuracies of out council and try to make a difference that the town needs.
i too was watching sab and cranney p**s about laughing nudging each other as if to say " watch this" if it was one of the public they would have received a ban
Quote from: jawsbbc on December 01, 2016, 07: PM
i too was watching sab and cranney p**s about laughing nudging each other as if to say " watch this"
Will they be like that at Angies sentencing tomorrow?
10.30am Teesside Crown Court.... Court 4
3 Names on the list Wilcox, Stead, Jeffries
By this time tomorrow they will have had a strangers fingers pushed up their back passages in search for contraband :-*
That isn't what happens. It won't be comfortable though
Quote from: groovy wordbender on December 01, 2016, 09: PM
By this time tomorrow they will have had a strangers fingers pushed up their back passages in search for contraband :-*
Who....SAB and Cranney? ;)
Quote from: Johnny Bongo on December 01, 2016, 10: PM
Quote from: groovy wordbender on December 01, 2016, 09: PM
By this time tomorrow they will have had a strangers fingers pushed up their back passages in search for contraband :-*
Who....SAB and Cranney? ;)
Assault with a friendly weapon?
Quote from: fred c on December 01, 2016, 08: PM
10.30am Teesside Crown Court.... Court 4
3 Names on the list Wilcox, Stead, Jeffries
What happened then, iare they having Porridge for Breakfast ?
Quote from: seaton on December 02, 2016, 11: AM
Quote from: fred c on December 01, 2016, 08: PM
10.30am Teesside Crown Court.... Court 4
3 Names on the list Wilcox, Stead, Jeffries
What happened then, iare they having Porridge for Breakfast ?
The Hartlepool Post was attending the sentencing and will doubtless be one of the first to publish the outcome.
20months apparently with suspended sentence for others
Whatever the sentence, i was hoping it would be nearer 4 years, this is a victory for morality over corruption. Well done to everyone connected with The Hartlepool Post for all the effort and dedication shown in pursuing this woman (and others) over the years.
Have a well deserved pint safe in the knowledge that while we all enjoy our Christmas, she'll be behind bars where she belongs.
Quote from: DRiddle on December 02, 2016, 06: PM
Have a well deserved pint safe in the knowledge that while we all enjoy our Christmas, she'll be behind bars where she belongs.
While I have no problem with this woman being punished with a jail sentence, I find it rather distasteful that someone should gloat in this way. Not very Christian at any time of the year but particularly bad at this time of the year and especially from someone who teaches in a faith school.
She did the crime. She'll do the time. End of.
You're entitled to your opinion, I'm entitled to mine. I'm glad she's in prison and I wish the sentence had been longer. Let's not forget, the charity she ran was allocated tax payers money to help feed disadvantaged school children (amongst other things). She stole money from out of the mouths of poor children.
I'm 100% comfortable with my view, I'm glad she's in prison.
P.S I don't work in a faith school.
Quote from: Steely Dan on December 02, 2016, 06: PM
Quote from: DRiddle on December 02, 2016, 06: PM
Have a well deserved pint safe in the knowledge that while we all enjoy our Christmas, she'll be behind bars where she belongs.
While I have no problem with this woman being punished with a jail sentence, I find it rather distasteful that someone should gloat in this way. Not very Christian at any time of the year but particularly bad at this time of the year and especially from someone who teaches in a faith school.
She did the crime. She'll do the time. End of.
Err no it is not the "End Of". Let's hope this sends a message to any others who are raping the various public purses, funds in the town.
I have to disagree with this sentiment, from my experiences with this type of case, in a previous life/role most people involved in underhand dealing like this have no regards to the consequences and live in a state of denial until they are caught and convicted. I have no sympathy for them and I believe some people here should take some credit for their actions.
Only my opinion as a confirmed none believer who is of the opinion religion should play no part in either politics or the law....I would also point out that not everyone has signed up to the same belief system as you so the time of year at which justice is handed out is irrelevant
It would be very satisfying for those who should have exercised due diligence / control , to get their cumupence and face a stretch inside. if the information on here is correct that would certainly change the balance of power at the kremlin.
We can only hope.......
Quote from: Steely Dan on December 02, 2016, 06: PM
Quote from: DRiddle on December 02, 2016, 06: PM
Have a well deserved pint safe in the knowledge that while we all enjoy our Christmas, she'll be behind bars where she belongs.
While I have no problem with this woman being punished with a jail sentence, I find it rather distasteful that someone should gloat in this way. Not very Christian at any time of the year but particularly bad at this time of the year and especially from someone who teaches in a faith school.
She did the crime. She'll do the time. End of.
Can't agree with that, Steely.
The damage that this woman did spreads far and wide and affected dozens, if not hundreds of people. None of that damage was accidental or incidental - she knew exactly what she was doing and the effect it would have on other people but she simply didn't care. In 63 years, I have never come across a more wicked and dishonest person.
You would have had to have been there this afternoon to hear the Judge's comments or to have followed her exploits over the last few years to understand why people feel the way they they do.
Forgiveness at Christmas is fine but the first stage of absolution is confession and despite her pragmatic guilty pleas, I saw no sign of remorse on this woman's face this afternoon. Like fellow sociopaths SAB and Cranney, she does not understand what it is she has done wrong which means that when she does get out, she will probably continue in the same vein. Cranney has claimed in the past how he has been the subject of 'a witch hunt' (by the Department of Trade and Industry) and Lying Ste still claims to have done nothing wrong over his sacking from Newcastle Council.
Wilcox herself has appeared in several stories in The Mail bemoaning how it has been 'a witch hunt' and how she has had her 'good name dragged through the bushes' only to later to plead guilty to all charges. She stole taxpayer's money intended to help people in one of the most deprived areas in the country so that she could buy Rolex watches for her daughter and send her own complete Westlife world tours - plane tickets, hotels and concert tickets.
I only wish she had ignored her solicitors advice and pleaded 'not guilty' as she originally wanted to because he would have been locked up for much longer if she had.
We should not forget the stories of frequent holidays to West Indies, new Land Rovers, giant flat screen TVs, frequent computer system updates with the 'old' stuff vanishing and matching Rolex watches. I am sure an article is being prepared laying ity all out. Wilcox was also caught after the MRA collapse forging signatures to obtain credit. She was aslo sued by the Landlord for trashing his house and SAB involved the police because he was guarantor for Angie. I do not know if he lost money but I do hope so!
Spot on Steve. My thoughts are with lynda and the others, those that this piece of human filth sh*t on time and time again. >:(
What is needed now from this site is a complete and unexpurgated account from day one of THIS SITES investigation into the, at the time, alleged practices at Manor Residents.
SAB, P. Beck's involvement as trustees,
G. Hall's fallacious accounting, (including pictures of the 'photocopied' accounts), the amount of money handed over by Labour cllrs to Labour cllrs, despite the amounts being in excess of HBC standing orders.
The senior officers involved at the time and their comments and the Labour Cllrs that ignored the vast amounts of money being poured into Wilcox pockets.
Then that lot ought to be sent to Cleveland police and Durham police for further investigation into who allowed it to continue for so long, and why?
Although Wilcox is the prime mover, she had plenty of support (and encouragement?) from behind the scenes.
We now need to expose those labour cllrs (and possibly Tory cllrs!).
"Is there any point in this site anymore"? A rhetorical question.
MORE THAN EVER!
Jailing Wilcox has scratched the surface of the cesspit in Victoria Rd.
We residents require THE WHOLE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH, and we want it NOW!
Well done to Steve L and those behind the scenes at Hartlepool Post.
As long as you're comfortable with your rather vindictive views that's fine. Personally I'd expect better from a teacher and civic leader. But like you say, it's your opinion.
I'm absolutely delighted she's gone down although it should have been longer.I don't give one jot that she will spend xmas inside. Four years people have waited for some kind of Justice. She's not the victim here,had she not been caught she would still be doing it now. The extent of her fraud and deceit read out today was mind boggling. To the extent in her efforts to get a loan last xmas she pretended to be three different people and disguised her voice over the phone. She showed no remorse today either,had that been me in the dock I certainly wouldn't be laughing just before the judge entered. I'm not a vindictive person and at one point when the judge was sentencing her I actually started to feel sorry for her.But that thought soon left my mind when I remember the stress of not getting paid week after week and xmas a few days away four years ago. Of what that stress did to my health and to others who have since died not knowing the outcome of this trial who were also witnesses and the stress they must have felt.We have waited four years for today. And if you think Angie will change by being sent to prison pigs will fly. I'd like to thank Steve Fred and Lucy Lass for your support and also many others on this site. I'd like to wish you all a Merry Xmas and Cheers xxx
I should add that the Hartlepool Post has indeed done a brilliant job in bringing justice.
I'm not sure the folks down at the Northern Daily Mail have any pride left but they should be hanging their heads in shame over their lack of coverage of Owton Manor Residents.
As I've said before there's a great opportunity for expansion of the Hartlepool Post. Local politics has never been so corrupt. They're not quite getting away with murder but with no decent newspaper to hold them to account and investigate their misdemeanours, they're getting away with a lot.
So yes, well done the HP
I don't think my views are vindictive. I think they're REFLECTIVE of anyone with a moral compass. Hundreds of thousands of pounds of public money was allocated to this woman to help some of our towns most vulnerable people. Rather than do that, she stole large amounts of the money to fund her own lifestyle. I think the peer review referred to it as 'the pursuit of self interest'.
You're right though, my time in faith schools did teach me about forgiveness, but it taught me a hell of a lot more about morality and standing up for what you believe in.
Hence why I'm comfortable with the part I play within HBC.
For the first time since all this began, an Impact Statement written by HBC was read out by the prosecution. Couldn't hear it very well but apparently Angies actions had left people of the town not having much confidence in them. As if!!! I rather think it might be the actions of others?
Quote from: Steely Dan on December 02, 2016, 07: PM
As long as you're comfortable with your rather vindictive views that's fine. Personally I'd expect better from a teacher and civic leader. But like you say, it's your opinion.
You are definatley in the minority and it makes wonder why you have any sympathy for the sack of s**t.
If your moral compass is deviating towards her,sign up as a prison visitor and see her. See if she coughs to any other jobs and implicates anyone else to shorten her stay at hmp home house or whereever. Hopefully she s sharing the experience with other manor residents who don't share your liberal views of what she did and make their feelings "known". She will have very unpleasant xmas once the other inmates hear what she was up too.
I suggest you think about how you would feel if she had impacted your life rather than talking about views based on some adult fairy tale cobbled together over a thousand years ago by group of fantasists seeking to control people by lying to them......oddly similar to tossers at the kremlin.
Lynda, I am sure I speak for more than myself when I say, as an aside to what happened today, I hope you have a lovely Christmas and Angie Wilcox becomes a forgotten name.
I'm glad the thieving smug cow has gone down, she enjoyed our taxes and has to pay for it.
I hope that Lynda has a lovely christmas with her family, money is not as important.
Angie will spend xmas sharing a cell with Bertha big coc* :P
SD...... What you need to realise is just how deep this rabbit hole runs, literally millions of pounds of council tax payers money went through this scumbags hands, the last year alone £500,000 pounds was awarded to MRS by HBC.
The Manor is 1 of the most deprived estates in the country, by her actions she deprived the worst off in society the help they desperately needed, all for her own financial gratification, she is a genuinely evil minded sociopath.
By her actions she also destroyed the trust in every other charity organisation in Hartlepool, organisations that have fortunately managed to overcome the doubts regarding there probity & stil provide services to the most needy in town.
What also needs to be remembered is that she was a sitting labour councillor, a supposed position of integrity & trust, the involvement of several other labour councillors, Lying Ste Akers B & P Beck as trustees of MRA ( a position they both denied very shortly after the s**t hit the proverbial ).
The vast amount of council tax payers money that was handed to organisation controlled by labour councillors was staggering, what also needs to be remembered was that Wilcox was also a co-director along with K Cranney, of WHOCARES /NE another CIC, an organisation that received £680,000 from HBC on the say so of 1 labour councillor committee chairman.
There are questions as to why so much money was handed out in such circumstances & what protocols were put in place to ensure that it was used in a proper manner, how often, for instance were MRA audited, the accounting & management procedures were according to reports a complete disaster, why did it take so long for HBC to respond.
Answers to those & many other questions need to be answered, The LabTor Mob will try to pass off the end result of the biggest HBC scandal I can remember, as over & done with, that should not be allowed to happe.
What is needed at the very least is for CAB to call an extraordinary council meeting, or better still for an independent enquiry into the awarding, monitoring & auditing of council grants.
It is public money & the public have the right know what this council is doing with it.
Absolutely bang on Fred
Quote from: Steely Dan on December 02, 2016, 07: PM
As long as you're comfortable with your rather vindictive views that's fine. Personally I'd expect better from a teacher and civic leader. But like you say, it's your opinion.
Sorry, but what exactly do you expect ? I've seen vindictive and the comments passed were rather mild in my opinion.
Would you prefer a community sentence or a card expressing our communal grief ?
Quote from: Riddler5 on December 02, 2016, 09: PM
Quote from: Steely Dan on December 02, 2016, 07: PM
As long as you're comfortable with your rather vindictive views that's fine. Personally I'd expect better from a teacher and civic leader. But like you say, it's your opinion.
Sorry, but what exactly do you expect ? I've seen vindictive and the comments passed were rather mild in my opinion.
Would you prefer a community sentence or a card expressing our communal grief ?
When it comes down to negative actions you need look no further than Hartlepool Labour Groups leaders. Thier actions both in open meetings but especially behind the scenes could be described as vengeful, unforgiving, grudge-bearing, venomous,evil-intentioned and often cruel.
I would be happy to argue that Mad Dog, SAB, Cranney, Richardson, CAB are all incapable of leadership and the only way they know how to progress is through the use of the negative actions described in the last para.
Fred was right to draw our attention to the findings of the Peer review, (put in place by Stuart Drummond). Its a great shame that too little action was taken to correct the failings they focused upon.
Nowt will change in Hartlepool while Hartlepool Labour Party is run by such people.
Finally well done SteveL and all the team on the Hartlepool Post but also Cllr Brash, Cllr D Riddle and Cllr Paul Thompson who 'did not let it lie' with Hartlepool Council. There where also some decent Officers within HBC who I know have always tried to do the right thing, sadly the usual response for thier bosses was at best cover up and sometimes even worse.
I can't even begin to imagine being part of a group run by such people.
Fred C and others. I can't argue with anything you've said. Indeed I agree with most of it.
I'm far from being a do-gooder but I took exception to the crowing, spiteful comments by DRiddle. Call me old fashioned but I expect a more measured approach from a teacher and a local politician.
The whole Manor Residents scandal is a disgrace. I'm no expert but I'm sure there are people with blood on their hands (not the best way to put it) who have walked away Scot free. I'm sure there has been a massive damage limitation exercise by council officers and a cover up by the Labour Group. I'd be happier if effort was put into that instead of pointless gloating.
Wilcox sounds like a horrible, manipulative, greedy individual. There are others of a similar persuasion running the town. Coun Wells? Coun Cranney?
Hope that clears up my comments.
Quote from: Steely Dan on December 03, 2016, 08: AM
Fred C and others. I can't argue with anything you've said. Indeed I agree with most of it.
I'm far from being a do-gooder but I took exception to the crowing, spiteful comments by DRiddle. Call me old fashioned but I expect a more measured approach from a teacher and a local politician.
........
Hope that clears up my comments.
It does.
You don't like Riddler5 even if his comments match those of others on this topic?
So to answer the original post. I guess there is a point to this site. I would agree with the comments of others in that I hope those affected by the MRA case can find some comfort that this part of the case has been closed. I do hope that those whom were charged with oversight of MRA have a full and thorough investigation into what would appear, at best, to be a lack of understanding of what was happening, or some sort of 'blind eye' moment.
Well done to Hartlepool Post and all of those who worked to uncover the background to this case.
Eh? I said Fred C AND OTHERS I can't argue with anything you've said.
I never mentioned Riddler5.
I hope that clears it up. AGAIN
Firstly I would like to say I am glad David Riddle holds strong views.
The last thing we need is another wallflower in the council chamber.
I prefer an honest opinion to being shafted politely by a two faced liar.
Secondly, I can't help wondering what they have got away with other than MRA.
Suspicion and lack of trust must be levers to help remove them when future elections happen.
Thirdly, has anybody let The Mail know the outcome ?
They have been awfully slow picking up th sentencing.
I can see where you're coming from, Steeley. Personally, however obnoxious the actions of those few councillors and officers who disgrace this town on a daily basis, any criticism from me is always made in the hope that one day they will decide to be different people. A forlorn hope perhaps. If people show genuine contrition and open up over past misdemeanours, then we should always be ready to give them the chance to reform - otherwise what's the point?
I think we can forgive Riddle his zealot tendencies. He played a large part, initially through public questions but later as a councillor, in bringing the whole Manor Residents saga to the fore when faced with a brick wall of a council which always considers the wrong-doing to be less important than the chances of it leaking out. As a result, he has been the target of constant venom and personal insults from other councillors both within the council chamber and outside of it. It would have been easier for him to give up; but he didn't, largely because, for faith reasons or otherwise, he has been brought up to know the difference between wrong and right and is prepared to fight for it. Trust me, this is a rare quality in councillors and senior officers.
One of the more depressing aspects of this story is the realisation that there were literally dozens of people wholly aware of what was going on at Manor Residents. Most chose to keep their heads down in fear of repercussions on their careers while others in the community sector feared the loss of their own funding if they blew the whistle. All were in positions in which the public should have been able to trust them to do the right thing.
The real enemy are those who responded to Riddle's tenacity by virtually closing down the public's right to ask questions. Unlike Wilcox, the Boys in Blue may not have knocked on their doors as yet, but they're coming, my friends . . . they're coming.
From my perspective Dave Riddle doesn't need to be defended on his work as a councilor, but I will put several things into perspective for Steely D, btw this isn't a pop at him.
Before he stood for council he used this forum like many others, over time it has opened many people eyes, like many of us he attended council meeting, asked questions, when we were actually allowed to ask them
At one meeting in particularl he asked his primary question & followed this up with his supplementary question, the response was astounding, he was threatened with legal procedings, slander, defamation of chareacter, it was like an episode of Casey's Court.
Within a very short time,the LabTor Mob re-jigged the constitution to restrict the public from actually askinng questions, that was the start of the restructuring of the democratic procees in Hartlepool via constitutional changes...... however I digress, a few days later DRiddles boss, received a phone call in relation to the quetion he had asked in council, we can only assume what the callers motives were, but I think we can guess.
When he eventually won a seat on the council he was engaged in a debate with amongst others Cllr Cranney, for some reason Cranney completely lost the plot & was only prevented from actually getting to DRiddle by the deputy CEO & a council officer restraining him, that was followed by a similar incident in councillors lounge.
Couple those examples with the abuse suffered by a variety of councillors & members of the public.
Cllr Geoff Lilley was invited to spend a day in the cells & his PC was borrowed for a month or so by the boys in blue.
I know of 1 member of the public who had had his car windscreen smashed in mysterious circumstances.... 3 times.
3 members of the public & 1dog, were subject to unwarranted threatening attention from a labour bruiser' in the street during a Mayoral (failed) parade.y
Another had a visit from the boys in blue at the behest of a Lab councillor, on another occasion CAB posted a comment on social media openly stating a member of the public had assaulted an OAP.
This forum was subject to countless DDOS attacks, usualy when contentious issues were under discussion both inside & outside the council chamber.
The list is a long & unpleasant one, but if people appear to be vindictive at times, it is completely understandable in my opinion.
The Mail has picked up the story - no comments available, however.
http://www.hartlepoolmail.co.uk/news/ex-councillor-angela-wilcox-jailed-for-residents-association-fraud-1-8271937
Just posted that as a new topic, but deleted it when I read this.....Lucy x
I honestly beieve that The Mail & the people responsible for its content have damaged the town as much as the councillors who run it.
Quote from: fred c on December 03, 2016, 09: AM
Just posted that as a new topic, but deleted it when I read this.....Lucy x
I honestly beieve that The Mail & the people responsible for its content have damaged the town as much as the councillors who run it.
Post of the day. Spot on Fred.
No matter how hard this site tries, it's limited resources and narrow reach will limit what it can achieve. It's a disgrace to proper journalism that the Mail never covers any political scandals in any depth.
I've met the editor a few times. She's a complete bimbo IMHO and seems to do the job for the social opportunities it presents. I'm told she treats it as a highly paid hobby as her husband has very highly paid job.
Quote from: fred c on December 03, 2016, 09: AM
Just posted that as a new topic, but deleted it when I read this.....Lucy x
I honestly beieve that The Mail & the people responsible for its content have damaged the town as much as the councillors who run it.
And no mention she was a Labour Councillor.
Quote from: Lucy Lass-Tick on December 03, 2016, 09: AM
The Mail has picked up the story - no comments available, however.
http://www.hartlepoolmail.co.uk/news/ex-councillor-angela-wilcox-jailed-for-residents-association-fraud-1-8271937
Possibly and only possibility the Police are looking into the Proceeds of Crime issue.
I suppose The Mail couldn't ignore the story but you get the feeling it would have liked to - so much detail omitted. One thing to mention is that while the prosecution could only prove £7,000 of personal theft, which The Mail has tried to emphasise, it was acknowledged that some £160,000 could not be accounted for, largely because of the quality of the accounts available which were described as 'shambolic'. A run-of-the-mill Rolex costs around £4,000.
I was told once, that the duty of a journalist is to ask six questions,
WHO
WHAT
WHERE
WHEN
WHY
HOW.
As opposed to
yes
Whatever you say
Vision sounds great
Just let us know
You know best
Of course we can touch up your photo
Quote from: Riddler5 on December 03, 2016, 11: AM
I was told once, that the duty of a journalist is to ask six questions,
WHO
WHAT
WHERE
WHEN
WHY
HOW.
Significantly thats the questions you ask when investigating a crime or an incident, something the snail will always shy away from "biting hand that feeds" etc?
Even by the Mail's p**s poor standards that article really is rubbish. Another bunch of readers flee the sinking ship
“One example was an account Wilcox said had more than £250,000 in it actually had less than £30,†said Mr Newcombe. “This gave auditors the false impression the association was viable which meant the council continued to support it. It was not until later when the association sought to make an arrangement with its creditors that suspicions were aroused.â€
Read more at: http://www.hartlepoolmail.co.uk/news/ex-councillor-angela-wilcox-jailed-for-residents-association-fraud-1-8271937
So...does the above mean that although HBC believed that MRA had 250k in the bank, they 'continued to support it' financially...pouring money willy nilly into Wilcox's pockets? It would be interesting to know at what point the funds would have ceased, had she not been charged. If nothing else, it shows just what a total mess HBC's accounting procedures are. If this scandal is not investigated totally by an outside source OR the Police, then there's no hope for this town! Let's hope she 'talks' and brings down the rest of the crooks. Even if it does happen, I'll bet my house that the Mail don't report it truthfully.
History is being re-written as we speak.................
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I wasn't going to bother having any alcohol tonight...but after seeing those goons, I need to get p*%%ed in order to stop the nightmares! They really do look like a criminal family! Btw, has anyone EVER seen MadDog smile?
???
Quote from: Johnny Bongo on December 03, 2016, 09: PM
I wasn't going to bother having any alcohol tonight...but after seeing those goons, I need to get p*%%ed in order to stop the nightmares! They really do look like a criminal family! Btw, has anyone EVER seen MadDog smile?
No never, (althought she once had wind that gave the impression of a smile) the reality is she has little to smile about.
Hartlepool has a chronic obesity problem and yet all of these people are either overweight or obese.
"And these are the people who run this circus of a ship. They rose without trace and I just cannot comprehend how these clowns are the 'leaders of their pack'. How has this state of affairs come about?
The only reason I could see for following these so called leaders is out of curiosity, as I see no other redeeming features.
Sometimes I see it as some bizarre cartoon strip come to life"
Quote from: Steely Dan on December 04, 2016, 07: AM
Hartlepool has a chronic obesity problem and yet all of these people are either overweight or obese.
Maybe they see themselves as a warning to others and are selflessly sacrificing themselves as a visual warning to the townsfolk.
A sort of 'You too can have a body like mine' campaign.
What is difficult to fathom in all of this is, when HBC finally got round to conducting an audit MRA were given time to put right the chaotic accounting & business systems operated by Wilcox, you don't need to be the Wolf of Wallstreet to realise that by delaying a full & comprehensive audit it gave Wilcox the opportunity to hide skeletons in cupboards.
Am I alone in thinking that Wilcox had a Machivellian mentor in all of this ?
In the case of Who Cares North East, I recall a series of reports been written about the outcomes and working practices. My understanding is these had to be edited on the orders of an Officer at highest level so as 'polish the turd'.
In my opinion most CEO's have been too interested in protecting failing Councillors in the misguided belief that they were protecting the good name of the Council. In reality thier actions have helped ruin the Councils reputation, this coupled with too many within the Labour Group without the balls to challenge the actions of thier Leaders.
Hartlepool deserves better
Quote from: fred c on December 04, 2016, 09: AM
Am I alone in thinking that Wilcox had a Machivellian mentor in all of this ?
This occurred to me months ago- I don't think Wilcox had the intelligence to actually come up with the original idea- someone must have explained to her how to go about selling funding and hiding the reality from the so called "Auditors" who are, it is apparent could not detect a hole in their own ar**!
The situation has left a lot of unanswered questions, hopefully several people are currently bricking it, only a matter of time before they make mistakes and start talking.
Has anyone here explored the option of a Freedom of Information request?
https://www.gov.uk/make-a-freedom-of-information-request/organisations-you-can-ask-for-information (https://www.gov.uk/make-a-freedom-of-information-request/organisations-you-can-ask-for-information)
The first people the spotlight should fall on are anyone who is/was/was but claimed not to have been, involved with the Manor Mob who are currently living beyond their means....anyone with big houses, holidays and big "events" that would not be supported by their incomes or lack of.......where to start?
Cant wait for somebody to dig something up and the whole house of cards will come tumbling down....
http://www.hartlepoolpost.co.uk/article_ex%20labour%20councillor%20wilcox%20jailed.htm
Wilcox's previous 'partner' was Cranney. They had a falling out when she made a statement that was very damming against Cranney in his (then) upcoming court haring. Angie also contacted the police saying she was being 'leant on' to change her evidence but the police said they could not provide her with protection. Come her day in court Angie changed her story and contradicted her earlier statements. The Judge even felt the need to comment unfavourably on Angie in court.
To this day no one has the slightest idea who the person who was threatening Angie. His identity is a complete mystery......................................
The whole set up at HBC would be a perfect project for an investigative journalist/Writer on tv/radio/internet who wants to make a name for himself/herself and is not connected with the town so can not be " advised" by Crannible, Mrs and Mrs and the likes.
If anyone knows any journalists I suggest they forward the link to the article to them.
Quote from: Johnny Bongo on December 03, 2016, 04: PM
“One example was an account Wilcox said had more than £250,000 in it actually had less than £30,†said Mr Newcombe. “This gave auditors the false impression the association was viable which meant the council continued to support it. It was not until later when the association sought to make an arrangement with its creditors that suspicions were aroused.â€
So...does the above mean that although HBC believed that MRA had 250k in the bank, they 'continued to support it' financially...pouri ng money willy nilly into Wilcox's pockets? It would be interesting to know at what point the funds would have ceased, had she not been charged. If nothing else, it shows just what a total mess HBC's accounting procedures are. If this scandal is not investigated totally by an outside source OR the Police, then there's no hope for this town! Let's hope she 'talks' and brings down the rest of the crooks. Even if it does happen, I'll bet my house that the Mail don't report it truthfully.
Well before Wilcox was charged but again when she was, opposition councillors called for all funding to cease while the matter was properly investigated. Both Stephen and Christopher Akers-Belcher claimed that this would lead to children going hungry if the breakfast club stopped.
Wilcox had the routine habit of pocketing any cash revenue from the cafe or shop.
As someone who only recently discovered this site, having previously , in the absence of anything else, read the "truth" on the online version of the snail, the more I read here the more I am completely amazed at the type of people we have running the kremlin and poking their snouts into the various troughs.
I know it has been asked before but what backgrounds do these people have- Wilcox in particular looks like she's been feeding her face in a charity food bin, dressing at oxfam and the last time she came close to a shower was obviously running to the bank in a rain squall.
So whats the back ground on
Wilcox
CAB
SAB
Crannible
Mad Dog
and the rest of the wastes of space currently festering in the Kremlin?
SAB/CAB are particularly worth of scrutiny and investigation it would seem - they seem to live in a fantasy world were they are both in some delusional state of thinking they actually know anything or provide any value.
A search on line relating to Crannible reveals some interesting "activities" which even the snail reported upon back in 2000.
Is there actually anyone in the Kremlin other than 1 councillor on here with any morals or standards?
Perhaps we need a thread focusing on each of these clowncillors ,sightings, snippets of information and connections would soon build up and at the very least perhaps tip one of them over the edge into a hissy fit when they see the information gathered? Resulting in perhaps a slip up in their own pile of s**t.
I am sure there is no doubt they have spies visiting here on a regular basis and won't be able to resist reading about themselves here.
It's a jigsaw, the pieces need to be found and put together.- just a suggestion to make the forum more targeted.
Quote from: fred c on December 02, 2016, 08: PM
What also needs to be remembered is that she was a sitting labour councillor, a supposed position of integrity & trust, the involvement of several other labour councillors, Lying Ste Akers B & P Beck as trustees of MRA ( a position they both denied very shortly after the s**t hit the proverbial ).
This raises an important question.
If they were trustees don't they have certain obligations?
If they weren't, what exactly were they doing there and what was their role ?
so why has only wilcox and daughter been charged? was the evidence of all the others involved destroyed ?teflon coated that labour/tory mob
Quote from: Riddler5 on December 04, 2016, 07: PM
Quote from: fred c on December 02, 2016, 08: PM
What also needs to be remembered is that she was a sitting labour councillor, a supposed position of integrity & trust, the involvement of several other labour councillors, Lying Ste Akers B & P Beck as trustees of MRA ( a position they both denied very shortly after the s**t hit the proverbial ).
This raises an important question.
If they were trustees don't they have certain obligations?
If they weren't, what exactly were they doing there and what was their role ?
Both had Trustee of MRA on their register of Interests, Lying Ste, was quoted in the mail as saying, "I am here for the Long Haul", 3 days later he resigned, P Beck, went so far as to write a letter denying he was or ever had been a Trustee of MRA.
http://www.hartlepoolmail.co.uk/news/manor-residents-association-faces-bailiffs-over-unpaid-9-000-tribunal-bill-to-hartlepool-cleaner-1-5945581
I remember reading the CAB`s lauding the quality of the MRA Sunday dinners, especially the soup, SAB was a regular frequenter of Kilmarnock Rd, he is after all a Manor Ward councillor.
http://www.hartlepoolmail.co.uk/news/hartlepool-mayor-insists-he-will-not-resign-over-role-in-crisis-hit-charity-1-5895443
http://www.hartlepoolmail.co.uk/news/fresh-calls-for-hartlepool-mayor-to-stand-down-over-charity-group-court-case-1-6928326
The link above is worth reading, there was a motion at the meeting for Lying Ste to step down..... but Carl Richardson who was acting chairman said it could cause legal problems as did P Devlin the BS...... now she is in the chokey.... we might find a councillor who will ask the question about his imvolment as a trustee & that he should stand down..... I`m kidding about him standing down ;) ;) ;)
search the mail site for all sorts of information on the LabMob, there is a surprising amout of info they would like to forget about in the archives.
http://www.hartlepoolmail.co.uk/news/hartlepool-mayor-sacked-from-day-job-as-care-team-manager-with-newcastle-city-council-1-6846709
http://www.hartlepoolmail.co.uk/news/time-to-go-former-labour-leader-joins-calls-for-hartlepool-mayor-to-resign-1-7218298
The last paragraph in the link above is interesting, it is almost 2 years since he got the pedal from Newcastle council, the local Labor Party have still to complete it`s investigation,
is there nothing fred implicating any of these at all so they will just walk away from it as per usual only in hartlepool
The Mail has tried to emphasise, it was acknowledged that some £160,000 could not be accounted for
so whats going to happen about that then
just be written off as usual
if she couldnt account for it she should have been charged for it as well or at least for false accounting in that sum in particular
suppose we will finish up footing the bill somewhere along the line as usual
I believe it was stated that record keeping was so bad that no one has any idea where the money went. With no one to blame there was no one to jail. There is a Proceeds of Crime hearing to come but given both Angie and her daughter were frantically trying to obtain further loans I think you can kiss goodbye to them finding any money to recover.
From posts on the many previously wiped forums it would appear one way they managed to raise cash was in the selling on of MRS property at knockdown prices. It is a safe bet many a Wilcox relative has it but that is beyond the reach of the law.
I wonder why the Trustees were not tackled about it as I believe at the end of the day they are personally liable.
Just for reference, in the 90's her and Cranney were involved in the Lion Hotel, Lancaster Road. It was suggested it would become a non profit making community pub, the Mail did and article on it.
It burnt down in a fire one night after standing safe for over 100 years.
Is that a typo? Community Pub or Community 'ub?
Looking at those photographs its impossible to believe that Wilcox's fellow councillors were not aware of what she was up to. What are we to believe, that on hearing of her 17 or so criminal acts those councillors were taken by surprise and shocked?
I, for one, am not buying it.
Quote from: mk1 on December 04, 2016, 11: PM
I believe it was stated that record keeping was so bad that no one has any idea where the money went.
I wonder why the Trustees were not tackled about it as I believe at the end of the day they are personally liable.
It was widely reported the paperwork was a "carcrash"..... If that was the case why was Wilcox given time to 'Sort it out' ?
Would that have been allowed to happen in the private sector, she would have been removed from the premises immediately, with a full in depth audit following, the plod would have been called in within a matter of days.
The 'trustees' pulled a duvet over their heads & pretended it wasn't happening.
Whilst waiting for my morning ablute.... I rang the Mail to ask why no comments were allowed on the Wilcox article.......
We have to Protect the Public from themselves........ was the answer I got.
Quote from: mk1 on December 04, 2016, 11: PM
I believe it was stated that record keeping was so bad that no one has any idea where the money went
Surely not knowing where the money went is the problem, as whoever was responsible for money cannot account for it ?
Quote from: fred c on December 05, 2016, 09: AM
Whilst waiting for my morning ablute.... I rang the Mail to ask why no comments were allowed on the Wilcox article.......
We have to Protect the Public from themselves........ was the answer I got.
Who did you speak to out of interest?
I wasn't allowed to mention the Trustees in my Impact Statement. They said it was because it was Angie who was up for Sentencing not them,and that they had been unaware of what had been going on.So obviously they have spoke to them. But in my eyes that doesn't wash, they attended plenty of committee meetings, or was being a Trustee just a title to them? At the end of the day it was their responsibility to make sure the centre was viable and run correctly. So they obviously failed in their duty of care to all employees and are responsible for its inevitable closure. Then finally we have an MP who rightly defended those employees at Sports Direct and again those the other week at Amazon, yet when it comes to his own town does nothing. I hope that Karma bites all their arses. If your going to do a job that ultimately affects alot of people for God's sake do it properly
Quote from: lynda on December 05, 2016, 03: PM
I wasn't allowed to mention the Trustees in my Impact Statement. They said it was because it was Angie who was up for Sentencing not them,and that they had been unaware of what had been going on.So obviously they have spoke to them. But in my eyes that doesn't wash, they attended plenty of committee meetings, or was being a Trustee just a title to them? At the end of the day it was their responsibility to make sure the centre was viable and run correctly. So they obviously failed in their duty of care to all employees and are responsible for its inevitable closure. Then finally we have an MP soon to be who rightly defended those employees at Sports Direct and again those the other week at Amazon, yet when it comes to his own town does nothing. I hope that Karma bites all their arses. If your going to do a job that ultimately affects alot of people for God's sake do it properly
His time will come
i can't fathom out how the so called "trustees" got away with it
ok they bailed out when the brown smelly stuff started flying
but they where in supposed power while it was going on
and no company/charity can lose that amount of money without questions being asked
she might be in the clink but there are still a lot of unanswered questions
They wont find answers, because the powers that be, aren't looking to ask any questions.......
The lost pennies, lots of them, should be recovered from the allowences of ALL Labortory councillors, those whom have held office within MRA should be dismissed by those who have lost the from their allowances, hey, hang on, this is artlepool, thats not cricket or crochet. Get a grip, only the good die young, so this lot have nowt to fear, domestos, its a ten from Len.
isn't there an ombudsman or some sort of regulator that they have to answer to ?
this whole affair stinks to high heaven
that lot are just doing whatever they want
and us silly gets are paying for it and we cant ask where our money is going
if thats correct it's time they (goverment) changed the rules
We (people connected with this site and/or 'opposition' councillors) did try try to bring the trustees into the spotlight. Here's an example below. It's also another clue as to why public questions will very soon be completely done away with.
http://www.hartlepoolmail.co.uk/news/hartlepool-mayor-insists-he-will-not-resign-over-role-in-crisis-hit-charity-1-5895443
Remember what came from this story above? Ultimately, the two people who went public with their resignations as trustees of MRA, later DENIED having ever been trustees in the first place.
Notice in the article the references to 'denying charities' and 'children going hungry'.
Classic tactic from this lot. You cry "corruption" and they yell "you're trying to starve children".
You cry "pull out of the hospital trust" and they cry "you're deliberately risking the safety of vulnerable people".
You cry "Councillor Cranney's reputation precedes him" and they cry "He's an asset".
Anyway, keep chipping away people. Don't give up. Labours position in Hartlepool has never been more vulnerable.
These things take time. It'll take 3 to 4 more years to nullify the presence of some of these chancers. But it WILL happen.
point taken
as fred would say it boils my p*ss to see them get away with it
So what was the role of the two trustees who weren't trustees ?
Why were they there ?
What part did they play in the running of the organisation?
How often were they at the place ?
Comments on the Mail UKIP article mentioning Angie and LABOUR have all gone !
...just a glitch, back again.
The Mail couldn't ignore the obvious on the day, but I suspect the whole business will be buried very quickly never to be mentioned again.
I remember the Mail from about 15 years ago when it was always taking the council to task and battering Cleveland Police. These days it's just an embarrassment. I read a court case on the web site today. They got the bloke's name wrong several times. It really is sh1t.
I've heard that the editor is very, very friendly with Wright
All that's left Is a hollow husk, with the wind blowing through it. An echo chamber. All very disappointing.
In the alleged accounts did any of the trustees get expenses of any discription freebies etc cause if not trustees these will be repayable
caveat: the vast majority of charities in Hartlepool are run by thoroughly decent people, very often in difficult circumstances yet still doing immensely important work. It's part of the collateral damage caused by Wilcox and her mates that many other charities have been unfairly tainted by their activities.
As well as being thoroughly bent, Wilcox was also unusually stupid; stupid enough to steal cash from Manor Residents accounts directly via ATMs. However, the main type of skimming in these sort of organisations is to use the organisations resources to fund personal purchases and expenses. Taxi fares, Petrol, Food and all sorts of other purchases would go through the organisation. As a result, these organisations would have eye-popping travel expenses, vehicle costs and computer purchases.You have to remember that no reliable, external auditing of the accounts was going on even though, over the years, millions had gone in to the funds. No credible asset register was being kept in order to keep track of purchased equipment. In short, it was a free-for-all. If one of her fellow councillors would ask Wilcox to provide the odd buffet or two or to purchase something from eBay then that was no problem. If no detail is being kept and the accounts themselves are a shambles, then its very difficult to single out individual transactions or identify who benefited.
I think most people would assume that when HBC pumped hundred of thousands into an organisation then it would have some mechanism to thoroughly check how it was being spent. It just wasn't happening and the few times that it did, for example, when it was a requirement of Government funding, uncomfortable results were ignored. Any wrongdoing was far less important than the risk that news of it would leak out.
As one third of what I would call 'The real opposition' within Hartlepool Borough Council, I though I'd share the following information.
A week tomorrow (15th December) is the final full council meeting of the year in the civic centre at 7pm.
This meeting represents the first time any councillor has been able to speak about Manor Residents Association for 3 years or so since The Hartlepool Post blew the lid off the rampant corruption which was going on there. Sub judice has prevented anyone from mentioning the situation during the VERY long trial.
Anyway, given we have now seen a councillor jailed, I personally am hoping there is a degree of self reflection from certain members of the council. We are no longer is the realms of 'rumour' or 'conspiracy theory' or the usual mutterings about 'brown envelopes'. All 33 of the current group of councillors now know there was corruption within the council in (at least) 2013.
I personally have submitted the following questions which will be asked in next weeks meeting:
Question 1, to the Chair of Audit and Governance - Following the successful prosecution of former Labour Councillor Angie Wilcox for a multitude of offences, what safeguards has HBC put in place to ensure a situation like Manor Residents Association can never happen again?
Question 2- to the Chair of Finance and Policy- Despite significant warnings from members of the public and councillors who expressed concerns about the financial situation with Manor Residents Association, you voted to continue to provide substantial funding to the organisation arguing it was the only way to provide breakfast clubs for children. In hindsight, would you accept this was a serious error of judgement?
Question 3 - to the Chair of Audit and Governance - Would you support an external forensic audit of all charities, community groups, community interest companies and organisations which have any connection to ex-councillor Wilcox?
Question 4- to the Chair of Audit and Governance - Would you support the introduction of a 'fit and proper persons' test, concerning directors of organisations tendering for council contracts? For example, should this council be excluding former bankrupts, people who have served custodial sentences and such like from tendering for council contracts? Would this be something you would take to your committee with a view to making it a formalised part of the council's criteria for consideration when awarded contracts?
Nothing I do in council is secret, so going public on here before the meeting won't alter anything. However, I hope in doing so it inspires people to perhaps give up an hour or two and attend the meeting and see how Labour respond to the questions.
In addition, I hope the 'heads up' inspires the group who are supposed to represent the 'official opposition' to Labour to actually get involved and contribute something meaningful.
Here's hoping...
Great questions Mr Riddle
However check your tyres enroute to the meeting, watch for nails in tyres!!!!!!
The forces may conspire against you getting to the chamber.
Trusting that you get there make sure you give them hell, and watch out for that left hook from Cranney the terrible.
"However, the main type of skimming in these sort of organisations is to use the organisations resources to fund personal purchases and expenses. Taxi fares, Petrol, Food and all sorts of other purchases would go through the organisation "
like the council you mean ;D ;D ;D
There'll be frantic airbrushing going on and it'll be like the Councillor who never was, a non person, gone and definitely forgotten. It'll be the name that can't be mentioned.
'Who?'
'I don't know who you're talking about'
'Hardly knew her'
'Nah, news to me'
' She used to be a councillor, but that's years ago'
' I don't recall the name' etc, etc. etc.
Quote from: kevplumb on December 07, 2016, 09: PM
"However, the main type of skimming in these sort of organisations is to use the organisations resources to fund personal purchases and expenses. Taxi fares, Petrol, Food and all sorts of other purchases would go through the organisation "
like the council you mean ;D ;D ;D
Where's the paperwork and receipts ?
It's a good job driddle that you have posted your questions on here as they now stand a chance of getting passed the censor.
I could kick myself for my little outburst at the extraordinary meeting, like others who tried to bring what was going on at MRA into the open i was waiting for the 1st meeting after Wilcox got jailed.
Unfortunately i will now miss watching the rats who left the sinking MRA, try to squirm their way out of answering driddles questions....... they are all highly pertinent & factual...... i would add 1 more...... will the CEO of HBC call in an independent forensic accountant to examine the accounts of any organisation that has councillors connected to it in any way....... going back at least 5. years.
Cook will really have to work hard to try & keep a lid on this little lot..... if he does what he has done on previous occasions, stifle debate by using the ticking clock, serious question would need to asked of a higher authority. ....ie. the LGO or the communities minister.
I await with anticipation the video.
Questions at council are understandable but between now and next Thursday, there will be a lot of work going into brushing the whole episode aside; a strategy involving Cook, Devlin, Alexander and the whole Labour Group will be in place by next Thursday. They are all operating as a single unit these days.
Bare in mind that once a subject is raised, Devlin will claim at any future meeting that it can't be discussed again for another 6 months - they just have to get passed next Thursday's meeting in one piece.
Personally, I've pretty much written HBC off as a properly functioning local authority. When you have a Chief Executive who states that, 'some stones are best left un-turned.' then there's really not much hope. She clearly belongs in the group of public servants which includes the North Staffordshire Hospital Trust and the BBC Executives during the Saville period - 'the wrong-doing is far less important that the risk of the public finding out about it'.
We'll be putting a portfolio together on this whole business and sending it out to all and sundrie from the Charity Commission and Media to the Department of Communities and Local Government.
I've no idea if it will do any good, but I think we're well passed the time when anyone can reasonably expect HBC to police itself.
If anyone is interested, the Crown Court do a very nice Quiche at a very reasonable cost. I'm planning on having another slice at the trial of another Labour Councillor next year.
'Going public' in advance with the questions will be interesting. I don't doubt SteveL is right and there will be a coordinated effort to get through these questions as quickly as possible with as minimal amount of fuss as possible.
To be honest, that's part of the reason why I've posted them on here. People who go to meetings regularly will have seen that when Labout attempt to hold things together in the chamber with a 'plan', that's when things are most likely to go 'belly up' for them.
In the past we've seen them try to have motions declared null and void instead of just debating them and voting them down. We've also seen them try to stifle the contributions of some councillors instead of just letting them have their say. Whatever plan they try to execute, given the brains of their front bench, it's highly likely to be very embarrassing and explode in their faces.
My 'favourite' plan was when Wells had to pretend he was bothered about the council tax rise, so he introduced his 'surprise' amendment. This was quickly followed by Barclay stumbling his way through a 3 page pre written 'response' which referenced many times, word for word, the 'surprise amendment'.
The best thing Labour can do is just let me have my say. Any 'plan' to do otherwise will quickly result in a comical situation.
Still, I guess it is pantomime season.
Fred C I salute you.
This is the question tha met be asked. "will the CEO of HBC call in an independent forensic accountant to examine the accounts of any organisation that has councillors connected to it in any way going back at least five years"
It's a killer. No reason not to do it. Charitable organisations should be squeaky clean if they are to retain public support.
Steve L "We'll be putting a portfolio together on this whole business and sending it out to all and sundrie . . . "
Can I suggest you send this to the CEO of Johnston Press and ask them why their local newspaper has all but ignored this scandal.
Today's Audit and Governance meeting should be interesting given that included is a report into what the council describes as its Draft Anti-Fraud and Corruption Strategy from the Chief Finance Officer. Timing is everything as this reports comes within a week of one of the council's own councillors being locked up for fraud - the report doesn't mention Manor Residents.
It looks like another paper exercise aimed at answering any possible future question as to whether or not the council has appropriate procedures in place. We now know that that implementing any procedure is quite a different thing.
The ruling group is not allowed to hold the Chair of Audit and Governance. We could perhaps take the operation of this committee more seriously if the Chair hadn't been given to the ruling group's coalition partner. In the infamous Radio Hartlepool telephone conversation, RMW explains how he agrees everything with Labour before it gets to the Council Chamber. As Chair of Audit and Governance, he then has the job of scrutinising what he himself has already agreed with the Labour Group - just another crooked manipulation of the constitution that favours the ruling group.
The Audit and Governance meeting today will also cover Cranney's 'wife-beater' outburst and as you'd expect, it has been pink-papered.
Quote from: Steely Dan on December 08, 2016, 08: AM
Steve L "We'll be putting a portfolio together on this whole business and sending it out to all and sundrie . . . "
Can I suggest you send this to the CEO of Johnston Press and ask them why their local newspaper has all but ignored this scandal.
Yes I've had the same thought. Locking a councillor up, ex or otherwise, has to be one of the most significant stories in town for some time but it's already well down the visibility chart on The Mail site. They had to cover the story; to not do so would have totally given the game away.
I wouldn't hold out much hope with Johnston Press. A little bit of Googling reveals that the company has many other publications equally embedded half-way up their own local council's rectum.
Quote from: Steely Dan on December 08, 2016, 08: AM
Steve L "We'll be putting a portfolio together on this whole business and sending it out to all and sundrie . . . "
Can I suggest you send this to the CEO of Johnston Press and ask them why their local newspaper has all but ignored this scandal.
Private Eye would love this..maybe independent or Guardian ....worth a call also to Sunderland Uni....they run a Journalism degree course...I would imagine senior lecturer will be online.people are always looking for a "scoop".
BBC seem to be applying the ostrich approach or maybe it should be called the Savill approach? ;)
Another question that springs to mind is in regards to Lying Ste getting the Tin Tack, at the time he said it was a private matter & he would fight the decision, well, he didn`t, it wasn`t private & the investigation into his disgusting slur regarding the care of vulnerable adults was investigated by Newcastle council & northumbria police
So by throwing a sickie, was he actually getting money under false pretences from his employer & by making spurious allegations, was he wasting police time ?
As for this act of farce.
The Audit and Governance meeting today will also cover Cranney's 'wife-beater' outburst and as you'd expect, it has been pink-papered.
Do we really expecy anything different, HBC must use 90% of the UK`s production of Pink Paper, it comes to something when the CEO of HBC can oversee the banning of members of the public from council meetings & yet take part in discusions with a misogynistic, verbally abusive bullyboy & several blatant liars.
I suggest a contract with the following company might prove useful within the civic centre.
http://www.calibrate.co.uk/
Quote from: fred c on December 08, 2016, 08: AM
So by throwing a sickie, was he actually getting money under false pretences from his employer & by making spurious allegations, was he wasting police time ?
I keep wondering about that too.
http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/d_to_g/fraud_act/#a10 (http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/d_to_g/fraud_act/#a10)
See Fraud by abuse of position (Section 4) - very interesting
If anyone is interested, the Crown Court do a very nice Quiche at a very reasonable cost. I'm planning on having another slice at the trial of another Labour Councillor next year..
Who ?????