Lets talk about immigration.

[Ryehill]

          S.R.Moore quite rightly suggests that we should have a common sense approach to immigration. Unfortunately common sense and politicians don't normally go together. Why are the main parties now talking about making it more difficult to immigrate to this country? I suggest that it is because we are now entering the early phases of a general election. Those politicians have now realised that in the general public  there is a simmering resentment against the high level of immigration to this country and it will be a major issue in May 2015. They are simply trying to safeguard their own futures.
        What of our M.P.? I am sure that he voted for the Lisbon Treaty, which allows free movement of Labour throughout the E.U. and I know that he supported the accession of Romania and Bulgaria to the E.U. The consequences of their accession will be felt next January. It is predicted that only 13k Romanians and Bulgarians will come to the U.K. Now, where have I heard that before?

[rabbit]

Mr.Cameron is putting more pressure on immigrants, andHe is talking up the rhetoric.

First he proposed restricting access of immigrants to Council House waiting lists for two years.

Now he is re visiting the EU rules on the right of immigrants to access the Social Security aid of the host nation (as I highlighted above in a previous post).

viz. unless the rules have changed, an EU immigrant to any member nation of the EU is free to enter and stay in that nation for up to three months. After that three months he or she must either be working or have sufficient resources to avoid becoming a burden upon the social security system of the host member state during their period of residence

Mr.Cameron is to give them six months instead of three. As I pointed out, this could fly in the face of equal rights legislation, so would hit the buffers. He cannot apply equal rights considerations to shirtlifters and others, whilst denying equal rights for immigrants (shirtlifters or not).

Anyway, such restrictions on access to Social Security are pie in the sky because as we have been told, there are jobs available.

[steveL]

You seem to be totally blind to the 'elephant in the room', Shane. Neither Tory or Labour Governments have done anything to eleviate the long-term problem to unemployment in the North East - except some Tory think-tank which once suggested that we all move South.

And there's little point in attempting to defend the bankers unless you Tories are prepared to level the playing field by having a civil servant at the exit of every betting shop refunding from taxpayers money any stake lost on even the most absurd 100-1 shot - which is effectively what happened with the bankers..

[mk1]

MK1, lets tackle the whole helping the bankers crap once and for all.
like it or not, the financial services industry equates to 30% of the UK GBP. Now you can go along selling another lie that the tories are simply looking after their rich banker mates but the reality is that it is in all of our interests for the government to protect our financial services because if they move abroad, which lets not kid ourselves, they will, we truly will be up the proverbial creek.

There we have it. The bankers deserve their bonuses.
The people who brought the world to the brink of ruin  can not be sanctioned because they are too important.
The same must apply to the local Conservatives because it seems Wells appears 'too important' for anyone to tackle him for selling the Tory vote to Labour for personal (not Tory) advantage.
That must be why Osbourne went to Europe and begged that his mates be allowed to keep our millions.



Notice how the  Swiss had a referendum and  decided to tax their own bankers and the only people out of step on this were Cameron & Osbourne.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-21647937


Swiss voters have overwhelmingly backed proposals to impose some of the world's strictest controls on executive pay, final referendum results show.

Nearly 68% of the voters supported plans to give shareholders a veto on compensation and ban big payouts for new and departing managers.

Business groups argued the proposals would damage Swiss competitiveness.

But analysts say ordinary Swiss are concerned about a growing economic divide in the country.

The vote came just days after the EU approved measures to cap bankers' bonuses.

[mk1]

I'm sorry but the excuse that 'there are no jobs' is simply untrue. Faced with the facts it seems MK1 and Steve now say 'Ok but there aren't enough jobs'.

Depends.
If you have any common sense you will not be claiming a cleaning job of 7 hours a week is a proper job.
If your  your task is  to defend everything your party does then you will make a fool of yourself  by trying to claim hundreds of these positions are proof there are 'plenty of jobs'.

Destroying 1 40 hour full time job and  creating 5  8 hour part time ones  does not mean you have had a 5 fold increase in opportunities.

I am sure bollocks about 'plenty of jobs'  goes down well in the home counties but the people up here live with the reality and so can see straight through the flannel.

[rabbit]

"it is in all of our interests for the government to protect our financial services because if they move abroad, which lets not kid ourselves, they will,"

I bet the Greek Cypriots now wish that had happened.

[mk1]

"it is in all of our interests for the government to protect our financial services because if they move abroad, which lets not kid ourselves, they will,"

I bet the Greek Cypriots now wish that had happened.

I bet the Russian Mafia are not too happy with the outcome!

I know  meant it as  a joke but it touches on  an aspect that is not given  much publicity.
Our bankers have been caught (in the USA,  over here they cover it up) actively helping Drug Barons launder their money.

Perhaps Shane thinks it does not matter where the money comes from?

[SRMoore]

You seem to be totally blind to the 'elephant in the room', Shane. Neither Tory or Labour Governments have done anything to eleviate the long-term problem to unemployment in the North East - except some Tory think-tank which once suggested that we all move South.

Really? I guess that enterprise zones, TDC, infrastructure projects, low corporation taxes etc were all just a dream?
For Petes sake MK1 you ain't daft! It is up to local authorities, local politicians, local businesses and local people to use what is available to them and make things happen. Otherwise the north east will spend another generation mourning the loss of the coal mines and shipbuilding whilst hoping that one day the government will come along and reopen the pits or nationalise the farms so we can all go and pick turnips for the workers.

[SRMoore]

And for the record; I didn't defend bankers or state they should get absurd bonuses. Those were your words, not mine.

Incidentally it is worth pointing out that those bankers do pay an awful lot of tax on those incomes. The top 10% of all earners in the UK pay just short of 50% of all income tax receipts. Not to mention the higher taxes on property, inheritance more vat on those flash cars etc, etc.

[mk1]

And for the record; I didn't defend bankers or state they should get absurd bonuses. Those were your words, not mine.

So far so good but then you go on to make excuse that show where you real sympathy lies............

Incidentally it is worth pointing out that those bankers do pay an awful lot of tax on those incomes. The top 10% of all earners in the UK pay just short of 50% of all income tax receipts. Not to mention the higher taxes on property, inheritance more vat on those flash cars etc, etc.

So if you pay your income tax at a higher rate than most you are forgiven if you are also  a lying cheating thief?

[steveL]

Really? I guess that enterprise zones, TDC, infrastructure projects, low corporation taxes etc were all just a dream?
For Petes sake MK1 you ain't daft! It is up to local authorities, local politicians, local businesses and local people to use what is available to them and make things happen. Otherwise the north east will spend another generation mourning the loss of the coal mines and shipbuilding whilst hoping that one day the government will come along and reopen the pits or nationalise the farms so we can all go and pick turnips for the workers.

Spoken like a true Home Counties Tory - anyone for a sleep over?

[mk1]

nationalise the farms so we can all go and pick turnips for the workers.

There is no more subsidised industry than farming.
I suspect it has far more taxpayers money wasted on it than any nationalised industry ever had
Funnily enough there is no great outcry about this and  only a cynic would claim this is because the greatest  beneficiaries  are nearly all sitting in the House Of Lords.

Oh and talking of farming am I correct that the Government is in the process or removing the floor for agricultural workers wages?
Sanctions to motivate the poor and bonuses to motivate the rich-you couldn't make it up!

[beanzontoast]

Ryhill I would like to see if I cant answer your question it was a good one and other threads have mentioned jobs unemployment etc which I don't believe answers your question. In the past we as a sovereign nation allowed in a controlled way immigrants from variouse country`s by enlarge the numbers weren`t all that significant but as they say that was in the past and that s where it needs to be for now. Its 1975 when the EEC was born is ground zero in answering your question, you see when this treaty came into force it was to all intent and purpose to be a customs union ( a trading of goods system ) the general population where told this was so however most of the big hitters from all political party`s at that time knew it was nothing of the sort it was always intended to be a FEDERAL EUROPE. this means Brussels controls EVERYTHING in its member states and I mean EVERYTHING.
When Brussels has Britain all that remains of our sovereignty will be got rid of no monarchy, no parliament, no more voting every five years. Remember even the papers say it is unaccountable, and none democratic, and indeed it is when it takes full control it will and the people who work for it become the Elite and their families will be in perpetuity born to rule, and the rest like me and you will become part of a caste system.
Why should this happen cant our elected politicians see it and as you have rightly discovered the people already are waking up ( UKIP ) have been telling you this for ten years.
Who gains well its all to do with CHINA we cant compete you see. Now as I have mentioned before in a thread on this site you wont go far wrong if you look at the two main political party`s core policies. The trade unions Political arm is the Labour Party, who favour mass immigration as they tend to vote for it, ( Labour Party ) so the mass immigration policy from the Labour party  was not a mistake. And likewise big business ( multinationals ) have as their political arm the Tory Party, their main aim is of course cheap labour, hence Cameron does not want to come out of Europe.
I hope that helps their is of course more but you get the picture but to leave you with 2 points to the power of this entity  One country not long ago ( cant remember which ) reduced the minimum wage why because they can, and two in Cyprus all ordinary peoples bank accounts were raided and ten percent of their savings confiscated they did back down from this but don`t think for one minute they could not do it, people must raise their eye`s from Hartlepool and see the whole country is in a battle a battle for Britain if you like.

[steveL]

Interesting thread.

I read through this and had the thought that, in different times, we would have had all the requirements for revolution here and, if you scan through history, you will find similar seed beds.

What appears to be keeping this in check is the complete apathy of the public and you can't help but wonder if this too isn't the result of 'policy' on the part of the political class that Steve speaks of and why no politicians get overly excited about abysmal turnouts at elections.

For 'Bread and Circuses' read 'Fast Food and Reality TV'.

[marky]

There is a school of thought that whoever is in Government, the same people remain in power - and none of them are elected.