House of Lords.

[testing times]

I think Perseus has a point KD. The thread is entitled 'House of Lords' and listening to the news this morning there would seem to be enought to talk about on that subject without drifting into the EU.

[Vincent]

Beginning to think KD is off his rocker -

How can anyone think that reforming the House of Lords is part of the Liberal Democrats "ongoing objective of destroying our constitutional democracy" when reform was a promise made by all three political parties at the last election.

KD, you are like a mad dog with a bone, I for one and I bet everyone on this site is sick to death of hearing about your views on the EU on 'Local Issues and Matters'

[Julie noted]

I agree with KD point on the Lib Dems having two points of view, on the same principle.
They want the H of L to be accountable to the electors of the UK but are quite content to let the unelected EU produce 3/4 of the laws we HAVE TO FOLLOW. 

Should it be in this 'local issues' aspect? Well, every law the EU dictates has an effect on us here in Hartlepool, one way or another. 

In my view, the H 0f L needs a clean sweep of mandelson, the kinnock's, prescott and all of the other toadies parachuted into the place, purely for political or reward reasons.
How long before we see dennis skinner wearing ermine and collecting his £380 a day reward? 

Those that wish to serve in the H of L should have to be voted for by the general public, after they have canvassed and shown their abilities and past commitment to us. 
And, as now, they do not produce laws. They simply revise and pass comments back to the H of C for clarification and/or 'adjustment'.

Politicians should be on a VERY short leash, as they have consistently proved to us that they are self-serving and, in a large amount of cases, rogues. 

[Ryehill]

                I think that Kipperdips' comparison of the workings of the unelected H.of L. and the unelected  E.U.Commission is a good one. He has clarified the role of the H.of L. and shown that it does not make our laws,but checks them before they become law, often weeding out weak legislation. On the other hand the E.U.Commission makes many of our laws but who checks them? The E.U. Parliament? National governments ? Nobody? I am not saying that every E.U. Directive is a bad one but there are a large number of them that should have been scrutinised before becoming law.

[Vincent]

Sorry Perseus, promise, last words on this....

Is the EU undemocratic?

Election of representatives
European Council - Prime Minister or equivalent of each EU member state is automatically a member, thus indirectly elected by the public
EU Parliament - MEPs elected by public vote
Council of the EU - Relevant ministers automatically appointed from each EU member state, thus democratic accountability varies
House of Commons- MPs elected by public vote
House of Lords - Lords selected by leaders of parties, or by pre-conferred "right" to sit in the House

[Julie noted]

'Banging on'?
If you consider being concerned about our country being further eroded by unelected faceless wonders from Europe 'banging on', then I'll 'bang on' forever more. 

However, as most reasonable and more erudite people on here will realise, we are not 'banging on' about the EU per se. We are talking about the H of L and the principles behind it.
The EU aspect is NOT the point.....accountability of the H of L is.

But hey, carry on twisting it to suit yourself....you are simply showing your immaturity. 

[Julie noted]

UKIP? I'm 'Putting Hartlepool First' locally and I vote Conservative nationally.
That's part of your hang up; anyone that tries to put the UK first must belong to UKIP.
DOH.

[Ryehill]

 Breaking news on Conservative Home website re the Lords Debate.

[mk1]

What is being missed here is the backwoodsmen who stopped the Bill are the  minority.
If the Labour Party vote as they believe rather than  just trying to wreck the coalition then the Bill is certain to be voted through.
In other words the wreckers do not represent the majority and if you watched Cameron today he is going down the route of getting Labour on board.
I will also state the obvious. Cameron  is using the Libs to emasculate his own right wing. With Clegg in tow Cameron can ignore  the far right nutters. 

[Donkey Kong]

Kipperdip wrote

Going back to my first point - if, (God forbid) these plans succeed, and when ALL three parties collude again to betray your interests, (AND THEY WILL), who are you gonna call?

Ghostbusters?

[Vincent]

Just to remind you all, the bill was voted through by a +300 majority

KD's fear of the Liberal Democrats is fascinating and in a way very funny.

[Julie noted]

KD; I don't understand your fear of change, 'because they will put in people that will obey commands'.
That is what we have at the moment...just take a look at who has been placed in there by labour....kinnocks, mandelson, prescott...all willing participants in whatever labour ask of them.
Likewise, you have the other parties cooperative numpties on their £380 a day.

As mentioned previously, they ought to be voted in but by US, and NOT the party hierarchy.
Let US look at the proposed applicants and WE decide, from their past performance if they are suitable.

[Vincent]

Like I said Kipper the bill was voted through, you really should pay more attention dear

[rabbit]

quote Kipperdip:

The H of L is far from perfect, but it works, it holds many checks and balances for our protection.  A lot (possibly all) of this protection would disappear.
The Lib Dems are the main ones pushing for these reforms that should be enough of a warning for anyone.

Anyone who thinks this is a great leap forward should study hard and rememember the old sayings'.
1) "If it aint broke don't fix it"
2) "Be careful what you wish for"

Well in the end, someone didn`t wish hard enough.

quote Nick Robinson, BBC

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-19157007

"The House of Lords lies empty today but its grand chamber echoes with promises of parliamentary reform which have ended upgetting precisely nowhere.

So far, so unsurprising.

What is of more consequence is the impact on a coalition which only a few weeks ago insisted that - despite a massive parliamentary rebellion - reform would proceed."

[rabbit]

quote:

Rabbit - As of yesterday the proposed 'reforms' were canned.

Yes, KD that`s why I put my post in.