Cutting the Grass According to Our Means

[DRiddle]

ARC86, there's a danger you'll embarrass yourself here very quickly in issues you clearly don't know very much about.

school is mandatory

No it isn't. Education is mandatory, school is just the vehicle most parents choose to give their children that education.

any youth worker worth their salt will tell you this.

I know many Youth workers past and present. Most support the idea of utilising existing facilities whether it be schools, colleges or leisure centres. To try to sustain separate buildings and facilities, particularly in tough economic times, is absolute folly and totally un-necessary.

You are also VERY wrong to assume that the only young people who go to youth clubs and centres don't like school. All my friends and large sections of my year group at school went to youth clubs. We also went to school and, in the main, enjoyed it and did relatively well.

The fact that some young people DO like youth centres but don't like school is all the MORE reason to attach the youth centre to the school.

As for condoms and advice on sex etc. schools are geared up for that via the appropriate secondary services that routinely come into schools.

Given that Hartlepool has recently been shown to have the 3rd highest teenage pregnancy rate in the country, together with one of the highest rates of STIs, if youth workers ARE responsible currently for the bulk of sexual advice, them I'd say that's all the more reason to put it in the hands of professionals.

[mk1]

Good final point, absolutely nowt!!

I really think it is funny the way you believe you are much cleverer than everyone else.
Your ego is big enough  to match the SCAB delusion about themselves..........

[ARC86]

Your opinion David but your a teacher, im a youth worker two totally different vocations.. you see through the glass differently to me, il stick by my point that youth centres should not be in schools, also that schools are totally different to a youth work environment

MK1 old chap, im still waiting for you to say something constructive instead of sitting at your PC Desk being a keyboard warrior, for the record i do not think im cleverer than anybody else, but yeah even at such a young age i have plenty of life experience in different environments

[Hartlepudlion]

To MR mister, arc86, mk1 in particular but others as well. don't you think that  there is an inordinate number of Councillors involved in the voluntary sector? Just off the top of my head, you have 3 labour in West View, 2 labour employed by HDVA, one independent who admits he makes his living from his charity, to name just a few.
It seemed that the main point of the Boudicca article pointed out that there were so many declarations at th EGM that all but three didn't make one. Assuming a full house that is 30 out of 33 who are involved. 91%! wow!
Makes you think doesn't it!

[mk1]

but yeah even at such a young age i have plenty of life experience in different environments

Perhaps a year trekking in the Amazon followed by 6 months building  Yurts on the Mongolian Steppes ?

Please keep 'em coming!

[DRiddle]

You're either completely missing, or choosing to ignore my main point. I don't disagree that they're different environments. Clearly somewhere a young persons studies French is different to where they play table tennis.

My point is about utilising existing services rather than trying to duplicate them, or battling to sustain and fund an independent youth centre.

Let's say it's 8pm on a Friday night on Catcote Road. As a council you have option (a), fund a dilapidated building that's struggling for money, lacks state of the art resources and requires funding year in year out for largely evening and weekend activity.

You also have option (b) a state of the art school nearby packed pull of sports facilities, state of the art all weather football pitches, TV's computers, art facilities... SPACE blah blah blah.

You're solution is to scrimp and save fight to pay for essentially duplication, as a very similar building stands empty nearby.

Mine, is to utilise what's already there.

[mk1]

don't you think that  there is an inordinate number of Councillors involved in the voluntary sector?

It is not the involvement but the rather cavalier way they vote to award each other contracts. They got so cocky they  bent the rules and gave Wilcox carte blanche to fund her entire extended  family via our money. They really believed they were untouchable. Hopefully a Wilcox trial will expose the twisted world they inhabited. I wonder if 'handsome' Stephen will wear his ceremonial robes when in the witness box.

[mk1]

My point is about utilising existing services rather than trying to duplicate them, or battling to sustain and fund an independent youth centre.

Come on that is a no brainer.
What looks better on an election leaflet. 'There is a youth club in my ward' or 'this is a photo of  the building I fund through my tireless efforts for charidee'.

Besides councillors would not have the option of 'cash-in-hand' payments to school employees...............

[steveL]

Well clav 73 im afraid you are a bit misguided if you think MRA are the only voluntary sector organisation in town.. if you wish to tar them all with the same brush carry on, you do yourself and the town and all the people who work and volunteer at these organisations a dis-service in doing so

MK1 there are numerous organisations who are council funded already, so your point is a bit redundant really

When HTH first raised the matter of the cronyism on display at Manor Residents and our questions over how money was being accounted for this was precisely the response we received from the A-Bs and the like i.e. How awful we were for questioning the valiant efforts of those volunteers who give up their time freely etc etc.......

Of course that wasn't what we were doing - we were questioning the motives of those managing the organisation and most particularly those who seemed to be making a very nice living out of it. The 'genuine' volunteers were being cynically used as a human shield by those screwing the system for all that they could.

It's taken nearly two years to get where we are and at every point the A-Bs, Cranney, Stubbs, Wilcox and a few others have done everything possible to thwart our every effort. What we did discover though was that many of those who weren't directly involved in what was going on still knew all about it but chose to say nothing.

• Those connected to the Labour Party chose to say nothing in case it damaged their precious party
  
• Others involved in the 'voluntary sector'  chose to say nothing in case they were to suddenly to find their own funding affected
• Others within HBC wanted to keep a lid on the whole thing to avoid their own positions being compromised or threatened.

Those quick to adopt a 'couldn't give a **** attitude when HVDA was singled out to receive a 100% cut in its funding from HBC should bare in mind that HVDA, as the umbrella organisation of the voluntary sector in Hartlepool, composed and sent a letter to HBC raising serious concerns over the way in which the Connected Care contract had been awarded to Wilcox and Cranney's Who Cares (NE) by Ged Hall.

Since then the whole matter has blown up in Labour's face and two years down the line HVDA suddenly finds its funding from HBC is wiped out.

This is how Labour works in Hartlepool.
   
Hartlepool might well need a Labour Party - but it doesn't need the abomination that the present local party has become.

[ARC86]

David i have not said only people who use youth centres are those who do not like school, far from it, i was making a broader point that those who dont like school are more likely to get a voluntary education at a youth centre away from the school setting. Speaking to young people they tell me they would not come to a youth centre if it was at a school, not all but most of them, so moving the youth centre into a school setting leaves those young people (who are more often than not disadvantaged) out of the loop altogether. Yes i admit i got school mixed up with education, thought you may have realised what i meant, but never mind. The big problem the council will have is that these independent youth centres are now over subscribed, that in itself is a fantastic thing, but young people should never be turned away like they are now because youth clubs are full. When i worked at Brinkburn we were getting 100 teenagers a night. Now Brinkburn is set to close where are those young people going to go? There is no money to fund public sector youth centres so the only other option is voluntary youth projects which are already over subscribed.

hartlepudlion, i dont see it as a problem that councillors also work for voluntary organisations, it is healthy that they have their finger on the pulse and are aware of the problems that arise in their areas,dont forget the third sector provides hundreds of services right across the town (ive said this before but MK1 went into his rants like he usually does calling me a Labour stooge lol) i do agree with your point though that more people from the private sector should get more involved in politics  MK1 likes to call it the gravy train but what is he doing to stop it? If its a big public sector cartel as some believe then they should have courage in their convictions and try to change it like David Riddle intends too. Those who do nothing and moan will always moan

[ARC86]

If that was aimed at me Steve, then im sorry but ive probably been the most outspoken Labour member on MRA in Hartlepool. You know i get a lot of stick for being a Labour member on here (i think im the only Labour member who posts on here, like Shane is the only tory), but im thick skinned just like all the others on here who can give as good as they take. This forum is the best for local politics bar none! I just wish more people would join the debates. Final point on AW i hope she gets whatever punishment comes her way and the members of staff get their tribunal payouts, however they choose to go about it.

[steveL]

I was merely pointing out that the 'aren't all those who work in the voluntary sector wonderful' approach cuts little ice with us because the same attitude was used as the main defence of what was going on at manor Residents. The truth is that most people who work in the voluntary sector are thoroughly decent but that its in both their interests and the interests of everyone else that the poisonous leeches are removed from the sector completely. 

[DRiddle]

There is no money to fund public sector youth centres so the only other option is voluntary youth projects which are already over subscribed.

They're not voluntary though are they? The word 'voluntary' is a misnomer in Hartlepool. The vast majority of the 'voluntary workers' in the Labour group are not voluntary workers by most people's understanding of the word.

They're paid to do a job. Technically it's in what has, in latter days, become known as the voluntary sector, but they don't volunteer. They're paid to do it.

It also isn't "the only option". I've already demonstrated one option, utilise facilities that are already there.

I work in a large educational establishment in one of the most socially deprived boroughs in the North East. Our institution has everything a youth centre would need. Sports facilities, equipment, minibuses, space, etc etc.

If we approached the local council and asked them to build or fund another centre nearby duplicating a lot of the facilities we already have, what would they say? What would they say if we said "Our building is actually closed from 7-11pm, and the one we want to build next to it will OPEN from 7-11pm, what would they say?

Our building is mainly closed on weekends. If we said to the council "We actually need the new building to be open mainly on weekends". What would they say?

This is where I think I will struggle if I do stand and get a seat on the council. I'd find it very difficult trying to convince people to do something that is glaringly obvious to most.

[whatabouthisthen]

In support of Driddle. I think Dyke House is used 7days a week and during school holidays. Doesn't seem short of participants. The only school in Hartlepool to make such use of its facilities? And it has a community centre.
Perhaps because it aims to become an academy.

[mk1]

i think im the only Labour member who posts on here,

No. The spikey haired one used a fake ID just before Christmas so he could tell us about his sexual awakening. He was laughing at how stupid we all were not to get the hidden meaning behind the Sleeping Beauty painting he presented to his partner. Prior to that the  pair of them used to take turns using a single ID. It was comical to see the contrasting posting styles. Clearly one of them is as thick as a plank.
Brash also has a fake ID here.