Cities Minister Greg Clark has confirmed that the Tees Valley's city deal bid will now go through to the next stage.
The next stage will work towards determining which powers can be transferred to a local level, in order to determine the detail before a final decision can be made.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-21495688
How very selective of our resident Tory - Nick Clegg made the statement
Don't worry yourself too much Vincent, it isn't all a conspiracy. I simply copied the statement given by ITV News.
But hey, if you want Nick Clegg to be the poster boy of the new Cleveland County Farce then you can by all means have your wish.
Not worried at all Steve just making sure that crdeit is given where credit is due
Shane. I hope you'll forgive me for being somewhat sceptical where this topic. As I said earlier, if you want Clegg to take credit for Hartlepool being dragged under the control of Middlesbrough Town Hall, then I'm more than happy to let him take it.
Shane - thats a bit of a jump, if being part of Tees Valley means employment and investment, bring it on
Odd innit when one person gets a slap on the back (Greg Clark) and the other (Nick Clegg) gets blamed for dragging Hartlepool down, typical political bollocks - Shane
Pray do tell me where I gave Greg Clark a slap on the back? I've always been quite sceptical of this city region bid.
Why do we need to be part of a city region that is located in a fictional valley by the river Tees to have jobs created and investment pumped in to the town?
Seems to me that someone down in Westminster doesn't quite grasp the meaning of localism.
Devolving powers and budgets to local authorities and then telling them they'll have to be part of a bigger group to get it is like giving you a lolly with one hand and punching you in the face with the other.
Quotelike giving you a lolly with one hand and punching you in the face with the other.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gs3gxpUonSw
Shane, please pay attention to this clip, specifically around the 58 seconds - 1 minute or so mark..... ;)
Historically, Geographically and even Geologically, Hartlepool is NOT part of the Tees Valley and the demise of Cleveland County should have meant that never again would it be politically part of it either. We've been here before and we know how the story ends. This is just the latest move to centralise everything on the Middlesbrough/Stockton partnership.
So we can now look forward to more centralisation of services and for the non-Hartlepool linked Tees Metro to re-surface as a priority. Ray Mallon is on record as saying that he wasn't bothered if Hartlepool was included in the Tees Valley area or not because either way, his own Middlesbrough would be at the centre of things.
If anything this is worse. Instead of a disconnected but at least democratically elected County Council, we are now largely in the hands of the overpaid staff of an unelected Quango resulting in yet more public money sloshing around the 19th holes of selected golf clubs.
Quote from: DRiddle on February 19, 2013, 03: PM
Quotelike giving you a lolly with one hand and punching you in the face with the other.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gs3gxpUonSw
Shane, please pay attention to this clip, specifically around the 58 seconds - 1 minute or so mark..... ;)
Ha ha ha!
Quote from: Vincent on February 19, 2013, 02: PM
Shane - thats a bit of a jump, if being part of Tees Valley means employment and investment, bring it on
That's what they said about Cleveland in 1974 ...... and we went to the back of the queue and stayed there and the town stagnated.
I wonder what amount will actually arrive in H'pool and what does, how much will become attached to sticky fingers!?
Have got anyone clever enough to make the bid(s)?
We can see the results in the Hospital saga.
Concentrate everything in the central hub and phase out the spokes.
Pretty soon there is nothing but the hub.
It would help if our spineless councillor were not so servile (5000 quid? That will do nicely!) and fighting like ferrets in a sack for a paid position from the slashers..............
The only thing they want us for is to bulk up the numbers population wise. Ten years down the line you'll be traveling through to the centre' for nearly everything. They'll build there metro and we' ll be left out on a limb and as is proved with these projects, the new businesses cluster around them, ....... and the headless chickens pursue psrish pump politics, while the big world around them moves on.
Was being part of Cleveland so bad - think Marina and I dont think this town has ever stagnated or suffered any more that any other NE, we have great schools, established businesses and strong communities
You only need to be at the Owton Lodge roundabout to see how many people "travel to the centre" and travel into the town on a morning, 50/50 I would say
Like it or not Hartlepool is "geographically and even geologically" out on a limb along with Easington, Hordon and Blackhall and the cost of linking us to a Teesside Metro will always be prohibitive, the best we can hope for is better rail links with Durham, Sunderland and Tyneside.
I live and work in Hartlepool and of course would prefer the town to be booming but that aint gunna happen if we, as a town close our minds to projects like the Tees Valley City Deal.
Like I said I aint bothered what its called as long it brings investment, jobs and a future for our kids
Quote from: Vincent on February 21, 2013, 12: PM
Was being part of Cleveland so bad - think Marina and I dont think this town has ever stagnated or suffered any more that any other NE, we have great schools, established businesses and strong communities
You only need to be at the Owton Lodge roundabout to see how many people "travel to the centre" and travel into the town on a morning, 50/50 I would say
Like it or not Hartlepool is "geographically and even geologically" out on a limb along with Easington, Hordon and Blackhall and the cost of linking us to a Teesside Metro will always be prohibitive, the best we can hope for is better rail links with Durham, Sunderland and Tyneside.
I live and work in Hartlepool and of course would prefer the town to be booming but that aint gunna happen if we, as a town close our minds to projects like the Tees Valley City Deal.
Like I said I aint bothered what its called as long it brings investment, jobs and a future for our kids
The Marina was sod all to do with Cleveland County. Ironically, for a town stuck in labour mode, it was all down to Thatcher and her 'walk in the wilderness' and if you think about what happened to the area
after the TDC was wound up you get a better picture of the vacant heads in the Kremlin.
"
we have great schools" No, we don't. They consistently under-perform when compared to the national average and as a result we continue to fail our kids. Being too willing to accept mediocrity is one of Hartlepool's biggest problems.
"You only need to be at the Owton Lodge roundabout to see how many people "travel to the centre" and travel into the town on a morning, 50/50 I would say" Yes and a great chunk of them work at the Civic Centre administering a town that they themselves would rather not live in.
"Like it or not Hartlepool is "geographically and even geologically" out on a limb along with Easington, Hordon and Blackhall and the cost of linking us to a Teesside Metro will always be prohibitive, the best we can hope for is better rail links with Durham, Sunderland and Tyneside."In other words, we should learn to 'know our place' and not expect too much.
Jeez . . .
Quote"we have great schools" No, we don't. They consistently under-perform when compared to the national average and as a result we continue to fail our kids. Being too willing to accept mediocrity is one of Hartlepool's biggest problems.
Not all the schools under perform. (see below).
http://www.hartlepoolmail.co.uk/news/local/school-makes-the-grade-again-1-5347384
English Martyrs is well above the national average based on the latest figures. The national average is 59.9% for 5 GCSE's or more including Maths and English.
English Martyrs achieved a 72% pass rate in 2011, 68% in 2012 and we (I work there) are expecting to be hitting a number around that mark again this summer.
I don't think it's appropriate for me to comment on the results of other schools, but I can assure you, I know LOADS of teachers working hard in
all our schools trying our best to make a difference.
I agree there's an issue with low aspiration though, but again, there are plenty of people in our schools working to address that.
http://mobile.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/8732917.___We_are_overcoming_the_Oxbridge_divide___/
Political literacy is an issue too, if young people don't THINK they can make a difference, or don't know how to TRY to make a difference, that can lead to issues too.
http://www.hartlepoolmail.co.uk/news/education/students-quiz-town-politicians-1-4640453
But again, that's something people are working hard to crack. If you teach young people to CARE, and teach them that they CAN influence things, make a difference, that NOTHING is beyond them, it's even possible they can help HBC to have the occassional re-think.
http://www.hartlepoolmail.co.uk/news/local/joy-at-bus-decision-1-5148681
Schools can only do so much though. There needs to be jobs for the young people at the end of what we do.
Picking out a faith school is not the best example to use, considering the majority of the population of Hartlepool have no chance of taking advantage of the schooling it provides.
My experience as a parent is that schools are a mix of fantastic well experienced teachers and new graduates that don't have a clue (and often leave after a year or two).
QuotePicking out a faith school is not the best example to use, considering the majority of the population of Hartlepool have no chance of taking advantage of the schooling it provides.
That's not true. English Martyrs took several hundred of the ex-Brierton students when Brierton closed. In addition, due to falling birthrates in the town (believe it or not), scores of students are able to join English Martyrs from none catholic feeder primary schools.
Finally, the Sixth Form there is totally open to anyone and welcomes students from all the schools in Hartlepool as well as the wider area.
Quote from: Vincent on February 21, 2013, 12: PM
Was being part of Cleveland so bad - think Marina and I dont think this town has ever stagnated or suffered any more that any other NE, we have great schools, established businesses and strong communities
You only need to be at the Owton Lodge roundabout to see how many people "travel to the centre" and travel into the town on a morning, 50/50 I would say
Like it or not Hartlepool is "geographically and even geologically" out on a limb along with Easington, Hordon and Blackhall and the cost of linking us to a Teesside Metro will always be prohibitive, the best we can hope for is better rail links with Durham, Sunderland and Tyneside.
I live and work in Hartlepool and of course would prefer the town to be booming but that aint gunna happen if we, as a town close our minds to projects like the Tees Valley City Deal.
Like I said I aint bothered what its called as long it brings investment, jobs and a future for our kids
Cleveland were actually opposed to the marina development.
As for the Teesside metro, it would not be prohibitively expensive to come to Hartlepool, the problem is that they want to go to Darlington instead, so Middlesbrough and Stockton can have a direct link to main line train services. The biggest joke about this that they're using the existing rail service lines, so why not save the money by improving the existing service, or is that too obvious?
Well that stirred you up
I beg to differ that Cleveland had sod all to do with the Marina and I would like to see proof of its opposition - what did TDC stand for again - oh yeh TEESSIDE Development Corp.
Middlesbrough, Stockton and for that matter Hartlepool has a direct link to Darlington already, a Metro is a different animal all together. Maybe when the new hospital gets the go ahead we will get a direct link to that and then onwards to smoggyland and that horrible dump Stockton - now if you lived there you would have something to moan about
Just what percentage of employees of HBC live outside the Town then Steve, I see hundreds of cars entering the town on the morning and by the way who cares where they live as long as they can do the job. There are hundreds of monkey hangers earning a crust all over the World but still have a home in Hartlepool
Its not about "knowing your place" its about vision - wanting the best for the town - positivity and expectation
Jeezzzz.....
My understanding of the Teesside 'Metro' is that it will all be heavy rail (Refurbished BR Class 156 Sprinters) so it isn't really a metro line as you would picture the light rail Tyne & Wear Metro. It will effectively provide a more regular commuter service in between the existing services provided by Arriva.
What Middlesbrough can't stomach is that Hartlepool has a direct and regular rail service to London. This puts us at a distinct advantage over many of our supposed neighbours but unfortunately HBC don't seem to see or utilise the benefits this service brings. They should be pounding on the table and putting forward a strong case for early introduction of any proposed 'metro' to Hartlepool as we are effectively the second gateway to the south in the Teesside area.
I don't think we need to get excited about this. According to Mr Steinberg he said he wasn't aware of any projects in H'pool. As the closing date is 30th April it doesn't look as though the town will benefit - unless, of course, our Councillor directed companies apply!
As for % of council staff who live outside the town, I was told about five years ago, that no official figures existed but he would guess between 20 & 30%. At that time I don't think that any of the senior officers lived in the town.
Poor ol H'pool, we need a white knight.
QuotePoor ol H'pool, we need a white knight.
I imagine people will disagree with me regarding this point, but i do HONESTLY feel that more and more people have 'had enough' now and are prepared to give their vote to someone else. The May 'all in' elections together with the Seaton election have shown that PHF are moving forward.
Granted it's little steps, and might be deemed by some to be slow progress but in terms of an alternative to Labour i don't really see another option. The Conservatives are never going to get the weight of numbers required around the different areas of the town to take the council, and their votes in the Hartlepool General Elections seems to fluctuate an awful lot.
A 'white knight' candidate for PHF in the general election could create some waves. I think it'd need to be a fresh face though, someone people could believe in.
Still, plenty of battles to be fought before then. Picking off the seats in each ward one by one is the main way to try to get a change of mentality.
Regarding this specific issue of Tees Valley City, personally I'd support anything that I think will bring jobs to our town, I'd need to read up on more of the specific details and plans before i dismissed or supported this.
Taking whataboutthisthen's figures, that would mean about 1,125 people living outside of the town moving into Hartlepool each day and you'll find that the higher up the pay scales you go, the more likely it is that they live out of town. That's 1,125 salaries being spent somewhere else while HBC talks of finding ways to boost the town economy.
As for the schools point - yes Martyrs does well but if we're going to compare averages then you have to compare the Hartlepool average with the national average and when you do that things look pretty dire.
When my own daughter was about to attend St Hilds, or Henry Smith as it was then, the % for 5 good GCSEs at the school was 23% which was exactly half of the Martyrs figure at the time of 46%. When I went around the school, I asked a maths teacher why the figure was so low and I was told that it was 'a deprived area, what can you expect.' He couldn't explain why the results were only half as good as a different school just 4 miles away. 'Deprivation' was was just a convenient hook on which to hang lousy performance.
I was brought up on the Headland and never considered myself to live in a deprived area once.
Tower Hamlets is the most deprived area in the country and yet can boast one of the most outstanding schools in the country. It's all down to leadership, whether it's within HBC or a local school.
There are plenty of good Head Masters and Teachers and we've had some pretty good exaples in hartlepool but those who have no vocation for the job and have drifted into teaching because they couldn't think of what else to do should be kicked out of the profession - kids are too important to have to make do with switched off teachers.
Quote from: SRMoore on February 21, 2013, 03: PM
My understanding of the Teesside 'Metro' is that it will all be heavy rail (Refurbished BR Class 156 Sprinters) so it isn't really a metro line as you would picture the light rail Tyne & Wear Metro. It will effectively provide a more regular commuter service in between the existing services provided by Arriva.
What Middlesbrough can't stomach is that Hartlepool has a direct and regular rail service to London. This puts us at a distinct advantage over many of our supposed neighbours but unfortunately HBC don't seem to see or utilise the benefits this service brings. They should be pounding on the table and putting forward a strong case for early introduction of any proposed 'metro' to Hartlepool as we are effectively the second gateway to the south in the Teesside area.
When the Trans-Pennine came down from Sunderland through Hartlepool, Middlesbrough kicked off big time. It now starts at Middlesbrough. Maybe HBC should be lobbying to get the Sunderland service reinstated.
QuoteAs for the schools point - yes Martyrs does well but if we're going to compare averages then you have to compare the Hartlepool average with the national average and when you do that things look pretty dire.
When my own daughter was about to attend St Hilds, or Henry Smith as it was then, the % for 5 good GCSEs at the school was 23% which was exactly half of the Martyrs figure at the time of 46%. When I went around the school, I asked a maths teacher why the figure was so low and I was told that it was 'a deprived area, what can you expect.' He couldn't explain why the results were only half as good as a different school just 4 miles away. 'Deprivation' was was just a convenient hook on which to hang lousy performance.
I was brought up on the Headland and never considered myself to live in a deprived area once.
Tower Hamlets is the most deprived area in the country and yet can boast one of the most outstanding schools in the country. It's all down to leadership, whether it's within HBC or a local school.
There are plenty of good Head Masters and Teachers and we've had some pretty good exaples in hartlepool but those who have no vocation for the job and have drifted into teaching because they couldn't think of what else to do should be kicked out of the profession - kids are too important to have to make do with switched off teachers.
I can't argue with that. Deprivation isn't an excuse for poor schooling and a teacher should never offer it as an excuse for failure. As you say, with the right people leading the way, there are some amazing schools in deprived areas.
Personally, I take pride in the fact i work, have worked, and will continue to work in areas of high deprivation in the future. For me, that's part of what makes the job genuinely rewarding. Likewise, i don't buy 99% of the excuses that are often offered at local political level for the situation with Hartlepool.
If you have vision, a genuine plan and the right people behind you, anything is possible. The 'Parish Pump' comment someone made earlier today was about right. Too much petty squabbling while large areas of the town collapse all around us. (Sighs).
Quote from: Vincent on February 21, 2013, 02: PM
Well that stirred you up
I beg to differ that Cleveland had sod all to do with the Marina and I would like to see proof of its opposition - what did TDC stand for again - oh yeh TEESSIDE Development Corp.
Middlesbrough, Stockton and for that matter Hartlepool has a direct link to Darlington already, a Metro is a different animal all together. Maybe when the new hospital gets the go ahead we will get a direct link to that and then onwards to smoggyland and that horrible dump Stockton - now if you lived there you would have something to moan about
Just what percentage of employees of HBC live outside the Town then Steve, I see hundreds of cars entering the town on the morning and by the way who cares where they live as long as they can do the job. There are hundreds of monkey hangers earning a crust all over the World but still have a home in Hartlepool
Its not about "knowing your place" its about vision - wanting the best for the town - positivity and expectation
Jeezzzz.....
A couple of points, Hartlepool does not have a direct link to Darlington. The other point being there will not be a 'metro' link to the new hospital.... they couldn't even organise a bus to North Tees.
I never use the train but dont we have a direct link to Darlo by train?
When the Wynyard hospital IS built I would think some sort of direct rail link from the town centre to the hospital via Seaton and Greatham must be made available.
I have often visualised a monorail running along the central reservation of the A689 or something like the London Docklands unmanned rail system.
There is NO direct train link to Darlington to Hartlepool.
A monorail? In Hartlepool? Really? They are ridiculously expensive and running the length of the 689 would be uneconomical.
the only means of servicing the Emirates Wynyard Hospital would be via a branch line emanating from Norton Station. Still very costly as that stretch isn't as close as you would imagine.
I agree that in an ideal scenario a new rail connection to Wynyard would be great -many see Wynyard becoming a new town- but in the current climate I can't see such a line getting capital funding nor can I see it being funded privately. James Cook is lucky in that the existing line is close by. Kind of like how close Holdsforth Road is to an existing rail route AND main roadways.
The monorail or an unmanned rail system is a vision which could happen in the next 10 years given the political will.
I understand that there are plans affoot for some sort of rail link at Greatham and a link to Wynyard and onwards to the Teesside Metro makes sense to me
also been told in the future horden station is to reopen.
As part of the Tees Valley 'Metro' there are plans for a halt at Queens Meadow which is hoped will serve as a park and ride into Hartlepool. There are also calls for Billingham [old] Station and Norton Station to be reopened, both of which would make sense and would not cost a lot to bring into service.
Given the current proposals, pressure for those other two halts and the route of existing services, a branch line from Norton Station would be the most logical and economical. (take a look on Google maps)
Cheapest monorail system I can find in recent times is the Mumbai Monorail which cost an estimated $27.25m per Km. Just to give an idea.
is that US dollars? seems cheap to me
How much per mile for road and metro rail?
Yes, USD. Nottingham's light rail (Tramway) cost approx $14.3m per km. (£9,431,479 per km) which is classed as about average for an electric tram system. Thinking about it, it may actually be cheaper than a full urban system as most of the costs come from relocating existing utilities. Not many utilities between Greatham and Wynyard that would need to be moved.
This is the kind of logic that gave us the interchange. Just who exactly would use it in sufficient numbers to justify it?........People with cars are hardly going to park in some windswept park and ride, when the car they've parked can go all the way for a fraction of the cost and time.
I agree. There aren't enough potential users to justify a scratch built mass transit system between Hartlepool & Wynyard. A light rail service using predominantly existing lines is however a more realistic project which has the potential to work well.
Anybody who uses the current Northern Rail service between Hartlepool and Middlesbrough, especially during peak times, can testify that the potential capacity is there for a more regular service. Open a few new halts along the way (Queens Meadow/Greatham, Old Billingham Station, Norton Station, Teesside Park) and you'll quickly encourage more people to use the service.
Quote from: Riddler5 on February 27, 2013, 06: PM
This is the kind of logic that gave us the interchange. Just who exactly would use it in sufficient numbers to justify it?........People with cars are hardly going to park in some windswept park and ride, when the car they've parked can go all the way for a fraction of the cost and time.
This would concern me too but at the same time you have to consider that Hartlepool has one of the lowest levels of car ownership in the UK which means that a lot of those people not working are limited to what jobs are available locally. I think when good rail systems are available such as Newcastle, Manchester, London.....people will use them because it's less hassle. That said, we're talking frequency, reliability and availability.
http://www.hartlepoolpost.co.uk/index.php/46-news/transport/154-going-nowhere-fast
Isn't Wynyard too exclusive to open it up to access from the Gorbals sorry I mean Hartlepool ?
I can't imagine Wynyard becoming a 'new town'.... there'll be ructions at the coffee mornings
Think 10 years time, the roads will be falling to bits and full of 4x4s running of fuel costing £15 a gallon, the trains the way ahead, it's the only way ahead