Paper Tigers

[steveL]

Grandstanding Wells rolls over for the Hospital Trust again.It must be like being run over by a truck and then telling the driver not to do it again.

http://www.hartlepoolmail.co.uk/news/councillors-vow-they-will-not-be-lied-to-after-fertility-unit-rift-with-hospital-trust-1-8763973

[fred c]

I bet Foster feels as though he has been "savaged by a dead sheep".........

[marky]

Is a councillor allowed to call another public official 'a liar' in the press, so publicly? can't say I have much sympathy for Foster but in this case, I think I'd be demanding an apology from the little scroat or at least referring him to the Chief Exec

[steveL]

I think I'd be demanding an apology from the little scroat or at least referring him to the Chief Exec

Are you serious? You have to be an opposition councillor for any complaint against you to be upheld and we all know Wells is NO opposition councillor.

[mk1]

This is the same Wells who apologised to Foster before the Town Hall meeting (about the hospital) because although he was all for the Wynyard dream he would have to pretend he was against it in order to survive politically. He was joined in this deception by stab-vest wearing SAB (said vest being paid for by HBC) and the  botox-damaged (drooping eye-lid)CAB.

[Truthache]

The good news, for the Hartlepool public, is the farcical situation of HBC and the local NHS Trust not cooperating fully is coming to an end...hopefully.  At a time of major health changes being planned, it is in the best interests of both parties to ensure the best possible outcome for local residents.
Forget the personalities involved and concentrate on the key issues facing the NHS transformation plans would be my suggestion.  Hartlepool needs the best NHS service possible under the transformation.  That requires community based services and hospital services to be fully integrated.  To achieve that outcome HBC and the NHS Trust must be fully engaged.

[fred c]

The good news, for the Hartlepool public, is the farcical situation of HBC and the local NHS Trust not cooperating fully is coming to an end...hopefully.  At a time of major health changes being planned, it is in the best interests of both parties to ensure the best possible outcome for local residents.
Forget the personalities involved and concentrate on the key issues facing the NHS transformation plans would be my suggestion.  Hartlepool needs the best NHS service possible under the transformation.  That requires community based services and hospital services to be fully integrated.  To achieve that outcome HBC and the NHS Trust must be fully engaged.

You are absolutely correct, unfortunately we have ample evidence of the ruling coalition integrating with the NHS Trust to such an extent the local hospital closed.

We also have an example of a councillor who wanted a particular service to be fully integrated that much, he was awarded the contract for that service.

[steveL]

The good news, for the Hartlepool public, is the farcical situation of HBC and the local NHS Trust not cooperating fully is coming to an end...hopefully.  At a time of major health changes being planned, it is in the best interests of both parties to ensure the best possible outcome for local residents.
Forget the personalities involved and concentrate on the key issues facing the NHS transformation plans would be my suggestion.  Hartlepool needs the best NHS service possible under the transformation.  That requires community-based services and hospital services to be fully integrated.  To achieve that outcome HBC and the NHS Trust must be fully engaged.

Your posts are always worth reading, interesting and you obviously know a fair bit about the subject which is always useful in a discussion forum like this but maybe sometimes it's worth widening your scope away from the strictly medical field into the wider public domain. No one has ever explained to me how someone on say, the Headland, tasked with transporting themselves to North Tees or James Cook rather than our own Hospital, can ever see that as an improvement to the service offered.

When someone has just taken your house away, then hearing someone talk about how 'we should all not look back but look forward and concentrate on choosing the best tent for ourselves . . . well, that just isn't going to impress anyone.

[marky]

Can you get platform shoes on the NHS?

[mk1]

Being proper 'right-on' Comrades the local Party have decided to No-Platform themselves!

[mk1]

Forget the personalities involved ................

So do you believe someone (SAB) who signed off the Hospital closure whilst he had an application in for a £5000 grant from those wanting to close it  should be 'forgotten'?
Should we also 'forget' that he was awarded the grant just after agreeing to the closure?
Is it not pertinent to point out the same person is still  deciding  if we are  to accept any more cuts?

[Truthache]

Your posts are always worth reading, interesting and you obviously know a fair bit about the subject which is always useful in a discussion forum like this but maybe sometimes it's worth widening your scope away from the strictly medical field into the wider public domain. No one has ever explained to me how someone on say, the Headland, tasked with transporting themselves to North Tees or James Cook rather than our own Hospital, can ever see that as an improvement to the service offered.

When someone has just taken your house away, then hearing someone talk about how 'we should all not look back but look forward and concentrate on choosing the best tent for ourselves . . . well, that just isn't going to impress anyone.
[/quote]

Steve L, I don't believe everything about the transformation plans are an improvement.  Indeed, like many, I doubt the feasibility of losing either Darlington or North Tees A&E.  As for an explanation as to why any Hartlepool resident would consider the additional travel involved an improvement, I give you this.  The explanation is, the medical professions (nationally) believe that the outcomes for trauma patients are better when treated in major centres...despite the extra time taken to get there.  For the trauma patient getting there isn't the problem, they will be in an ambulance or possibly helicopter.  Getting there becomes a problem for the relatives and friends but the hospital does the best for the patients.

The other supposed advantages of the transformation plans are:
Provide more routine treatments in local community settings

More complex treatments/surgery to be in centres of excellence, where the pooling of clinical skills can ensure the best treatment being available 7 days a week, 24 hours a day ( currently hospitals need consultant cover for 16/24 hours I believe).

Fewer admissions to hospital.  Hartlepool has been one of the pilot sites for "hospital at home" where staff come to your home and treat you for a chronic condition and prevent an acute illness which may mean admission as an inpatient.  Patients speak highly of it.

I had a long career in the NHS, started locally in Hartlepool and moved to experience different healthcare settings.  So yes I do know what I am talking about and I just choose to say it to the people who can have some influence.  I remember when Hartlepool A&E was on the Headland...not easily accessible if you had to travel across town.  Losing A&E from the HGH site was terrible, the hospital has been under utilised for many years since. The recently opened Integrated Urgent Care Centre at HGH (and North Tees) has greatly reduced the pressure on A&E at North Tees.  I believe it is a great improvement on the service offered at One Life.

My point about HBC and NTH NHS Trust fully engaging in the lead up to these plans being developed is just common sense.  Shouting in the press and going to the courts, banning Trust Reps from meetings is not in the best interests of the general public.  To get the best solution for the public Hartlepool needs to be part of the discussions.  Anything else would be burying their heads in the sand.

[Truthache]

Forget the personalities involved ................

So do you believe someone (SAB) who signed off the Hospital closure whilst he had an application in for a £5000 grant from those wanting to close it  should be 'forgotten'?
Should we also 'forget' that he was awarded the grant just after agreeing to the closure?
Is it not pertinent to point out the same person is still  deciding  if we are  to accept any more cuts?

Absolutely not...each and every councillor needs to be held to account for there actions.  Sadly I only get one vote and try to use it wisely.

[Inspector Knacker]

The 'personalities' cannot be forgotten, they're the cause of our present situation. No doubt they'd just love it if the past was buried and a new page turned, it isn't going to happen.
They presided, or should that be stood by, while services were salami sliced away and assured us travelling out of town to access services was for the better, was patently absurd. It may be in their world, but if you don't have a car a need to be at James Cook for 9.30 and can't afford the taxi fare, reality kicks in with a vengeance.

[fred c]

The costs to patients and families travelling to NT or JC, can and is for many prohibitive, 5 years ago I attended JC as a day patient, it cost my wife £72 in taxi fares........ at the time £72 was affordable, I am now retired and I fully understand the concerns of many people who are financially worse off than me.

I can understand and in part i agree with specialised Trauma, Cancer, Heart and Neurological centres of excellence, but A&E and general surgery should be closer to home, especially considering the problems presented by travelling the A19 corridor.

Given all of that, those responsible for the closure of the A&E and the subsequent downgrading of the Holdforth Road site need to be reminded on a regular basis of their abdication of  responsibilities as councillors towards the people who elected them.......they should be ashamed of themselves..... but, as most of us realised long ago they have no shame.