What's going on?

[Grumblstiltskin]

If you take the time to actually read what I have written you would "get" that what I am asking is why is being realistic about our island is racist, so no, my question is not about immigration, it's about racism and the way the accusation of racism is used to silence common sense.

[mk1]

Could someone explain how living on an island of finite area and resources and worrying about how many people are coming to live here is racist? I would have thought it common sense to realize we have to try to limit the amount of people living on our small island, is that common sense or racism?

All nations have immigration limits but there appears  to be all lot of (deliberate?) conflation between refugees/asylum seekers and the principle of free movement for EU members. Nothing will change regarding refugees if we leave the EU.
I suppose one way to end the exodus from Iraq, Syria, Libya and Afghanistan might be to stop sending your armed forces there to destroy that country in the first place.

[Inspector Knacker]

So your concern involves immigration?

Some poor sucker is going to be the victim of a furious barrage of pent up indignation from repetitive remainer.

[Inspector Knacker]

Could someone explain how living on an island of finite area and resources and worrying about how many people are coming to live here is racist? I would have thought it common sense to realize we have to try to limit the amount of people living on our small island, is that common sense or racism?

All nations have immigration limits but there appears  to be all lot of (deliberate?) conflation between refugees/asylum seekers and the principle of free movement for EU members. Nothing will change regarding refugees if we leave the EU.
I suppose one way to end the exodus from Iraq, Syria, Libya and Afghanistan might be to stop sending your armed forces there to destroy that country in the first place.

I can agree with you both there.

[Inspector Knacker]

So your concern involves immigration?

Is that question directed at me?

Head for the hills, dig a hole and hide till the 13th of December.

[Grumblstiltskin]

So your concern involves immigration?

Very disconcerting to be so badly misread, also I was taught to never trust someone who answers a question with another question.

[mk1]

So your concern involves immigration?

I was taught to never trust someone who answers a question with another question.

You may have been 'taught' but obviously did not 'learn'.

So your concern involves immigration?

Is that question directed at me?

[Grumblstiltskin]

So your concern involves immigration?

I was taught to never trust someone who answers a question with another question.

You may have been 'taught' but obviously did not 'learn'.

So your concern involves immigration?

Is that question directed at me?

There's a difference to answering a question with another question and clarifying who a remark is directed at, you are obviously a David supporter looking to nitpick, feel free if it makes you feel better. I used to enjoy David's posts and find them eye opening but this "dog with a bone" attitude does not suit him at all.

[mk1]

There's a difference to answering a question with another question and clarifying who a remark is directed at, you are obviously a David supporter looking to nitpick, feel free if it makes you feel better. I used to enjoy David's posts and find them eye opening but this "dog with a bone" attitude does not suit him at all.

It was an open goal and I could not resist. Its no big deal so best not to make an issue out of it.

[Grumblstiltskin]

There's a difference to answering a question with another question and clarifying who a remark is directed at, you are obviously a David supporter looking to nitpick, feel free if it makes you feel better. I used to enjoy David's posts and find them eye opening but this "dog with a bone" attitude does not suit him at all.

It was an open goal and I could not resist. Its no big deal so best not to make an issue out of it.

Touche, I do have to admit to a little "baiting" from time to time

[DRiddle]

There's clearly a different tone and general manner to my posts on this thread, correct.

That's deliberate.

When I first posted onto this forum many years ago, at times I adopted a similar approach to that which I've projected this week.

The REASON for that (I like reasons, you may have noticed) is back then, about 10 or 11 years ago, this forum has become an echo chamber for a small group of hard core UKIP members.

Their views were entrenched, actually quite biggotted in my opinion, and there was zero movement in their opinions. They worked as a pack, led by the now deceased 'kipperdip'. Every single thread got turned around to the 'evil EU' no matter how unconnected the subject matter.

Criticism of the EU wasn't tolerated.

Gradually, faced with genuine 'opposition' from SteveL, myself, MK1 and here's the kicker, various others who NO LONGER POST HERE, the UKIPPER's gradually went into their shells. Some posted less frequently, some left altogether, and eventually (at my request to steveL actually) a second topic are was created on the forum for specifically EU/international politics.

The forum became a much better place and there was a much more united effort on here to focus on dealing with the Scabs, cranney and the like.

Now, fast forward 11 years and look at recent weeks/months on this forum.

In my opinion (you might disagree but we're all entitled to our opinions right?) the forum has returned to the kind of place it was when I first posted here.

Look at the actual title of the thread you're posting on and what my original point was.

Look at the nature of the thread NOW. Look at how it developed.

I haven't 'suddenly become' some hard core self opinionated europhile. I don't consider myself for one second to be cleverer than anyone else, nor am I in any way trying to 'prove myself to be'.

But I can quickly 'become that person' and 'play that roll' if I deem it necessary to do so to illustrate a point.

And right now, I DO deem it necessary. As I said in the opening post in this thread, the forum has almost become 'off limits' to people who criticise Shane and/or the Brexit Party.

That's NOT a good thing for the forum or for political debate in general.

I've had to go around the houses to illustrate my point by adopting the manner, tone and style of post which I feel has crept back into this forum FROM OTHERS in recent months.

I HAVE been overly defensive of my position (of pro EU), I have been implicitly or even overtly critical of people who are pro Brexit. It's not nice is it? It didn't make for good political debate did it? Kind of spoilt the whole experience didn't it? Made the forum not a good place to be?

Well imagine how myself and other people have felt in recent weeks and months. As our opinions on Shane and the current ruling group were dismissed, condescendingly attacked, or chipped away at just as vociferously as I've been on my posts on this thread.

When I first posted on high tax Hartlepool it was under the pseudonym 'Perseus'.

If you know your Greek mythology you'll know he's know for using a mirror (mirrored shield technically) very effectively.

For about a week now I've been 'holding the mirror up' again. Reflecting back on some the kind of discourse and manner they've subjected others to in recent weeks.

We cant go back to that place ladies and gentlemen. The forum cannot become a 'one position only', no dissent, pro Brexit party Petri dish. I for one won't allow it. 

I tried making the point immediately above in more conventional terms, but it fell on deaf ears.

Lastly, it was interesting to see people bring my profession into this thread several times.

Yes I am a teacher.

And some of you . . . . Have just been taught a lesson.

[Grumblstiltskin]

You neither read nor answered my question, preferring to plough on, even when I made the point that I wasn't answered and was misread, great qualities for a teacher, or would that be a preacher to the unworthy/uneducated?

[DRiddle]

Before I do answer, I haven't implied anyone who did factor immigration into their decision to vote leave IS racist. I merely suggested that a lot of people who WON'T give a reason, won't give it because the reason is immigration.

You can see that development VERY clearly around pages 9-10 on this thread.

People then inferred I would suggest they were racist if they DID say immigration.

[akarjl2]

Yes I am a teacher.

And some of you . . . . Have just been taught a lesson.

Seriously listen to yourself - the real teachers I knew would not waste their time in local politics and trying to play mind games here......they were considered to be professionals .

I suspect somebody in either your private or professional life has advised you that you had lost the plot and were acting like a c**k ......

Hence the "I had a plan" post........

Phew thanks...we were all getting a little worried ( not)

Are council elections due anytime soon?

[DRiddle]

No, all my own work. 

You'll need to try a lot harder if you're intending to drive people like me and MK1 away from the forum.

So, grumble . . . Where were we?