Vision or Illusion?

[steveL]

As a measure of how directionless all of this is, I highlight the suggestion that Jackson's Landing may be incorporated into the ethereal Royal Navy Museum, the talks for which are currently so preliminary that they can't yet be taken seriously. HBC are so confident of this happening that at the same time, there are the first whispers of HBC having found someone else to off-load the tin shed onto in the hope of making some sort of announcement before the May elections. No idea who that might be as yet but one of the usual suspects must be firm favourite.

The 'quick flip' idea turned out to be as firmly embedded as Morton's 'cash windfall' from the Domes announced prior to last May's elections but panic is starting to set in as the loan repayment date gets closer. The current plan is to pay off the initial two-year, interest free loan by long term 'prudential borrowing' which will come with a hefty £50,000 per annum interest. A perfect example of Labour's 'Buy Now Pay Later' approach to financial management.

[mk1]

Take note NIRAMAX. This is whay you will be  given free of charge buying
http://www.28dayslater.co.uk/forums/showthread.php/84480-Jacksons-Landing-Hartlepool-October-2013

You would think they would be a bit strapped after shelling out  for a  retired Council officers drinking club.
Still you can see the advantages for them. No worries about  'petty' planning laws or enforcement notices for the next 20 years.

[mk1]

The original claims

http://www.hartlepoolmail.co.uk/news/local/hartlepool-council-is-new-owner-of-the-derelict-jacksons-landing-for-1-5m-1-6262340

Conservative group leader Ray Martin-Wells said: "While £1.5m is a tremendous amount, I believe it represents good value for money and I understand that several developers have already offered the council a profit should we wish to quickly turn the building around...............

Councillors agreed to buy the land - valued at £10m before the credit crunch - and hold it until the market improves and a "suitable viable" scheme is identified.

The aim is to have identified an alternative use or to sell it on by December 2014.

No buyer was found hence the birth of the 'Vision'.

[mk1]

How about the 2008 'Vision'?


£30m marina plans unveiled

Published Date:18 January 2008
By Chris Cordner and Peter Tennick

MULTI-MILLION pound plans have been submitted to build a new hotel and leisure park.
Jomast Developments has submitted plans to Hartlepool Borough Council to transform and redevelop a 3.3 hectare waterfront site on Hartlepool Marina.
Bosses say the proposed scheme, which includes a luxury four-star hotel, restaurants, retail outlets, offices, business units, and waterside apartments, will significantly improve and regenerate redundant land at the entrance of the marina at Jackson Dock.
The proposal has been welcomed by Hartlepool Mayor Stuart Drummond, who said: "We have got a massive shortage of hotels in Hartlepool and certainly a shortage of good quality hotels. What Jomast has planned would be a great addition.
"I am just keen to see a spade in the ground and hopefully get it built before the start of the Tall Ships Race."
The plan, which is estimated as being in excess of £30m, will create hundreds of jobs during and after the construction.
Jomast Developments director Stuart Monk said: "The proposed development will completely transform this final stretch of waterfront at Jackson Dock and create a gateway to a vibrant and innovative marina community.
"Our vision for the site fully complements the regeneration that has already taken place at the marina and will add an exciting new dimension in time for the Tall Ships' Race in 2010."
Company chiefs say the new development will link the marina with the town centre and is being seen as the final piece of the jigsaw for the area.
It is hoped the development will complement and build upon the significant regeneration that has already taken place over recent years, including Hartlepool Bay, Jomast's existing residential scheme of luxury apartments.
Stockton-based Jomast Developments was named as the preferred developer for the site by joint owners Hartlepool Borough Council, the HMS Trincomalee Trust and English Partnerships, and the company held a series of consultation events for the public to view the scheme last year.
Jomast bosses say the exact number of jobs likely to be created is difficult to quantify. But they add it will probably be several hundred jobs created both during and after the construction process.
However, they say that because there are plans to build hotels, retail outlets, business units and other facilities, there could possibly be the same amount again in the service industries once all the new facilities are up and running.

[mk1]

It might do well to remember the original Marina plans were severely truncated between paper and reality.
Here is what we were promised and you can see how much was  cancelled and how the big blocks of flats between Fleet Ave and Victoria terrace (blue line with yellow spots)  become ordinary houses. The Dock office/Customs House are the red and green spots.

[mk1]

This was the 2004 Tricomlee Wharf 'Masterplan'.




It is  just a rehash of the original Marina Masterplan. The current 'Vision' is again a rehash of the 2004 rehash of the original Marina Masterplan.
Third time lucky?

[steveL]

Always nice to start the day with a smile. Classic comment on the Mail website:

"Putting Cranney in charge of anything that has the public purse attached to it is like asking Dracula to keep an eye on the Bloodbank.

All going to end in tears"

Anyway, Have Your Say.....

http://www.hartlepoolmail.co.uk/news/business/people-have-their-say-on-hartlepool-masterplan-1-7061645

[Hartlepudlion]

It does seem that the Council has some reality problems.

Attention to detail is also sadly lacking. eg the bridge from the Headland to the Marina was placed in the wrong position. If it had been built the port would have had to have been closed as ships would not be able door through lack of height and manoeuvring space.

In the current vision, how are new historic ships going to enter the marina to dock at the Trincomalee wharf? The current lock is not big enough. Poor old lady will end her days here in Hartlepool.

[fred c]

Something else the Visionaries need to take into account before they commence the World Class Masterplan.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PS_Wingfield_Castle

The PSS Rust Bucket is in a very poor state & thats only what can be seen above the waterline, goodness knows what condition it`s in below the waterline.

Sooner or later the vessel will require proper maintenance & all that that entails, ideally the only way to achieve that would be to lift the vessel out of the water completely.

To do that would require a Heavy Lift Crane & an awful lot of other equipment to restore it to a long term viable "Attraction"..... Maybe The Dear Leader & Handsome Ste could find employment on that little project, all they would require is a wire brush a paint scrapper & a paint brush.

[Lord Elpus]

The Wingfield has become the ship no one wants.  Like too many schemes there are no exit strategies in place and no money available to provide even the most basic maintenance for a rusting asset.

To make matters worse they could not tow it to Graythorpe to be scrapped cos it won't get through the lock gates.  Therefore the options are limited, it will cost money that's not there to maintain and it will be an ongoing expense with very limited return.  Or they pay a huge amount of money to pay someone to scrap it, or they sell it (to who).

[fred c]

The Wingfield has become the ship no one wants.  Like too many schemes there are no exit strategies in place and no money available to provide even the most basic maintenance for a rusting asset.

To make matters worse they could not tow it to Graythorpe to be scrapped cos it won't get through the lock gates.  Therefore the options are limited, it will cost money that's not there to maintain and it will be an ongoing expense with very limited return.  Or they pay a huge amount of money to pay someone to scrap it, or they sell it (to who).

L E.... the only viable option (If common sense is used) is to remove the Paddle Wheels & tow it out throught the Dock Gates, I suspect the gates would be wide enough if the wheels were removed ?

One thing is for certain, they ain`t got the money to put it into tip top condition.

[notenoughsaid]

   Several years ago I watched  the Trincomalee being winched into the Historic Quay which was then drained for work to be carried out. I am not sure of the dimemensions of both vessels but a simple "swap " of position would allow any work on the keel etc .to completed subject to size and compatability.

    I would hate to see the W/Castle lost to the scrapman however I did see the mine sweeper HMS Kellington scrapped by Able UK whilst  afloat on the Tees at Stockton.  With a bit of organisation I feel we have enough people in Hartlepool to avoid this and suggest the powers that be use community service facilites as a project to at least get her painted.   Just a few thoughts.

[fred c]

I have similar thoughts to you on this N E S...... but i am totally against yet another Community / Charity ? organisation taking on a project that would mean one or more of The Mob getting their snouts into the trough.

However the main consideration would be that a project of that nature requires specialist people & procedures, it`s not just a case of giving it a rub down with sandpaper & a couple of coats of dulux.

[mk1]

I think we have a solution. The heavy-lift crane that is coming to get handsome Stephen into the boxing ring can double up and lift the ship out of the water  whilst it is here.

[fred c]

It must be a Thousand Tonner then..... I can hear the Strops screaming now

http://www.baldwinscranehire.co.uk/public/downloads/1000t%20Liebherr%20LTM11000D.pdf