Morris saddos...........

[mk1]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-38571150

I saw these dancers in Birmingham at the weekend. I was surprised to see so many. We are not talking about a couple but dozens of the buggers. They were everywhere. Their 'blackface' was not just slapped on either. They were pretty well made up and most with  their eyes and mouths very expertly 'white-ringed' and avoided, They looked just like  Christy Minstrels. I thought they might get some grief because they really looked  like golliwogs. I would say they were waving a red flag in (the) Bullring.

[jeffh]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-38571150

I saw these dancers in Birmingham at the weekend. I was surprised to see so many. We are not talking about a couple but dozens of the buggers. They were everywhere. Their 'blackface' was not just slapped on either. They were pretty well made up and most with  their eyes and mouths very expertly 'white-ringed' and avoided, They looked just like  Christy Minstrels. I thought they might get some grief because they really looked  like golliwogs. I would say they were waving a red flag in (the) Bullring.

It was discussed on the Politics show today

[mk1]

It was discussed on the Politics show today

Yes and I saw the bloke claiming the blackface was 'roughly applied'. I saw them and whilst a few were the majority were exactly like Black & White Minstrels.

[jeffh]

Last Friday on the Jeremy Vine show, non-white people were complaining it was difficult to obtain non-white dolls and as a result they felt they were being marginalised - wasn't the reason these dolls were taken out of production because non-white people were complaining about them?

[mk1]

Last Friday on the Jeremy Vine show, non-white people were complaining it was difficult to obtain non-white dolls and as a result they felt they were being marginalised - wasn't the reason these dolls were taken out of production because non-white people were complaining about them?

I have never heard complaints about 'non white' dolls rather the opposite. The scarcity of them.

[Lucy Lass-Tick]

Not all Morris traditions blacken their faces - the Border tradition (based around the Welsh Border region) are one of the main groups to do so.  It is not believed to be anything to do with race - it is a DISGUISE.

On a mundane level, many of those taking part in 'the olden days' were farm workers whose labour wasn't as valuable in the winter months, so a little bit of anonymous begging helped financially. On a more esoteric note, some believe that the origins of Morris lie in ritual - almost shamanistic (in the same way that the Sufi religion (a mystical branch of Islam) have the Whirling Dervishes). If this were so. maybe the dancers wear a mask to distinguish between their everyday persona and their ritual role - the same way as a priest would wear a dog-collar/robes when 'on duty'?

I'll leave you with this clip of a Border Morris side in action.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fniZzaViEZc

[mk1]

Morris Dancing as we know it is Victorian and  has little to do with any ancient customs. There was a Morris Group in Cornwall somewhere that wore Afro Wigs with their blackface and called themselves something like Coconut Band so there is no denying there is an element of race in the blacking up. However times change. My granny would routinely refer to a black person as a n****r because that is what everyone called them in her day. You could not say it today and rightly so. That is why we no longer have  a Spastics Society or Mongol Children. We moderate our language to suit the sensibilities of those it offends.
There is also no doubt modern racists flock to defend these 'traditions' simply because they recognise them as  racist. They see it as a way of  letting their real feelings out in a way that can not be directly attributed to their insanity. The same people defending blacking up are the ones who put golliwogs in their front windows and act surprised when their African neighbours complain. It is used as a legal way to cause deliberate offence.

[Lucy Lass-Tick]

Read the links below for a slightly broader look at the subject.  Racism simply doesn't come into it ....

http://www.themorrisring.org/about-morris/border

http://www.sarummorris.co.uk/New%20History%20of%20Morris%20Dancing.htm

[mk1]

The first line says it all:

No one knows for certain the origins of Morris Dancing.

The people defending blackface are under the impression it goes back centuries and are completely unaware of the Morris Dancing revival in the 19th century. For all those excusing the blackface as a 'disguise' for the poor beggars there are as many who say Morris is a corruption of Moorish which in the old way of saying Black Man (see Robin Hood prince Of Thieves) and the dancing is African inspired. Black Pete in Holland is exactly the same. A 'centuries old' tradition started in 1850.
What is not in doubt is it should be ditched and the dancers can make fools of themselves free of controversy. Most Morris Dancing Groups are just thinly disguised drinking clubs  for Real Ale  snobs anyway!

[Lucy Lass-Tick]

Most Morris Dancing Groups are just thinly disguised drinking clubs  for Real Ale  snobs anyway!

Real Ale snobs? Yes, the folk scene has long had links with the likes of CAMRA, but snobs ..... not in my experience as a singer, ceilidh band musician/caller and dancer (clog, longsword and general traditional dance) - oh, and perhaps most relevant, I was a 'morris wife'....

[mk1]

Real Ale snobs? Yes, the folk scene has long had links with the likes of CAMRA, but snobs .....

Hell's Belles!
I always wondered why they never went full continental and called themselves Elle's Belles.

You should read the Real Ale comic strip in Viz Magazine. It hits the nail right on the head.

[akarjl]

Black Pete in Holland is exactly the same. A 'centuries old' tradition started in 1850.

I think you mean "Zwarte Piet".....as usual you are somewhat selective when producing supporting "facts"

"In medieval iconography, Saint Nicholas is sometimes presented as taming a chained devil, who may or may not be black. Although no hint of a devil, servant, or any other human or human-like fixed companion to the Saint is found in visual and textual sources from the Netherlands from the 16th until the 19th century,[12] Zwarte Piet and his equivalents in Germanic Europe, according to a long-standing theory,[13] originally represented such an enslaved devil, forced to assist his captor. This chained and fire-scorched devil may have re-emerged as a black human in the early 19th-century Netherlands"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zwarte_Piet

The looney eft in the Netherlands are trying to ban Zwarte Piet......much to the disgust of most dutch people.

Whats your next target?

The BBC Black Music Radio Station 1xtra ?

The association of Black and Asian Police officers?

Black Magic Chocolates

Completely bonkers......a chip on both shoulders- chocolate perhaps?

[Lucy Lass-Tick]

Real Ale snobs? Yes, the folk scene has long had links with the likes of CAMRA, but snobs .....

Hell's Belles!
I always wondered why they never went full continental and called themselves Elle's Belles.

You should read the Real Ale comic strip in Viz Magazine. It hits the nail right on the head.

Sorry - have heard of Hell's Belles, but was never a member of that particular group.  Do adore Viz, but can't stand beer ....

[mk1]

dancer (clog, longsword and general traditional dance) -

This type of 'longsword' dancing?

https://youtu.be/x5y-3YtyHHY?t=4m54s

[Lucy Lass-Tick]

dancer (clog, longsword and general traditional dance) -

This type of 'longsword' dancing?

https://youtu.be/x5y-3YtyHHY?t=4m54s

Erm, I don't think that that falls within the remits of the English Folk Dance and Song Society ...