The EU Referendum on Thursday is about getting our democracy back

[akarjl]

I have no interest in converting anyone, the same as I have no interest in making abusive comments about people who have different views to others. The voters will decide on Thursday.

[grim reaper]

So now Cameron's ex guru, Steve Hilton, has stated that Cameron was warned by the civil service that the pledged reduction in immigration was not achievable. 

I look at the unemployment in Spain, Italy, Portugal etc.
I see the billions being loaned to them (which they can't afford to pay back) and wonder, if the EU is the panacea, how come those countries are suffering so badly?
No doubt the bong-eyed racist on here will come on with his 'shouty' expletives, full of bluster and bullsh*t, highlighted font, revolving text etc. etc. etc.

The arbiter of the Hartlepool Post. (In his own, bong-eyed, racist mind).

Little Englanders? No, you buffoon, Proud Englanders.
Proud of what we have achieved in science, industry, medicine, the arts etc. etc. Achieved, despite back-stabbers like you in our midst.
Now I'll make way for you usual, pathetic racist rant.
DOH. 

[steveL]

The name of James Dyson has been bandied about quite a bit by the leave campaign as an example of British success and inventiveness. The bit that is missed out is that in developing his now famous vacuum cleaner Dyson accepted grants funded by both the British Government and the EU. Once he made a success of his vacuum cleaner, he then shifted its manufacture to China; all that is left in the UK is a design centre.

The Brits have always been good at design and have always been very inventive - especially the Scots. Dyson believes that the UK's future lies in high skilled, well paid design and engineering jobs and that its on this that we should concentrate.

The problem with this is that it leaves very little for the low or non-skilled workforce which make up a large proportion of the total. Dyson is less bothered about this; if he can get his products assembled cheaper by low paid Chinese workers working absurd hours in factories with appalling safety records then that's fine by him. As for the millions of UK workers left high and dry by the decimation of UK manufacturing industry, the best you can hope for from Dyson is a shrug of the shoulders.

Perhaps not the best example that the leave campaign could have found.

[mk1]

Little Englanders? No, you buffoon, Proud Englanders.

Outing yourself as a hater who  has to fall back on the issue of immigration because the economic argument makes no sense. Appeal to the base instincts of the looney fruitcakes because you have no other argument.
Go ahead and start the break-up of the UK because it is 100% certain a leave vote will lead to a new referendum on Scottish independence that will result Scotland gaining its 'freedom'.
Once you  let the genie out of the bottle it is hard to get it back in.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36526298

Like I have said before in or out will not have any effect on me but  if the haters get their wish it has been well-telegraphed in advance that the overwhelming majority of MPs who are for staying in are going to give the bong-eyed  looney racists a taste of their own medicine by spinning out the legislation and wrecking all bills in exactly the same way the 'ba*stards' have been doing for the last 20 years.

So fruitcakes vote to Keep Britain White-just like the way Kipperdip kept Rhodesia White when he was an  activist  for far-right synagogue burning Nazi groups (the ideal background for a UKIP Official) in the 1960s-70s.

[mk1]

Dyson is less bothered about this; if he can get his products assembled cheaper by low paid Chinese workers working absurd hours in factories with appalling safety records then that's fine by him. As for the millions of UK workers left high and dry by the decimation of UK manufacturing industry, the best you can hope for from Dyson is a shrug of the shoulders..

A bit like the tax-avoiding Farage was caught shifting his money abroad in his brothers name to avoid paying his dues. Like all spivs he cares only about freeloading on the back of the poor PAYE worker who has to make up the shortfall created by these parasites. I bet Farage is 'green' with envy at the BHS pension swindle.

[mk1]

Little Englanders? No, you buffoon, Proud Englanders.
Proud of what we have achieved in science, industry, medicine, the arts etc. etc. Achieved, despite back-stabbers like you in our midst.

Many of the 'scientific' advances since 1945 were helped by the wholesale looting of German industry  at the end of WW2. For example German wind-tunnel research was a generation ahead of the UK. Most of the industrial invention/innovation seen  since 1900 is of German origin.

Have you heard of Force T?

The KISS version:

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2007/aug/29/sciencenews.secondworldwar

at the end of the second world war an elite British unit abducted hundreds of German scientists and technicians and put them to work at government ministries and private firms in the UK.

The programme was designed to loot the defeated country's intellectual assets, impeding its ability to compete while giving a boost to British business.

In a related programme, German businessmen are alleged to have been forced to travel to post-war Britain to be questioned by their commercial rivals, and were interned if they refused to reveal trade secrets......................offered the British government an opportunity to exploit the scientific and technical know-how of the defeated nation, with scientists being regarded as a form of human booty who could help give the UK an economic and commercial edge......................he investigators would look for state-of-the-art machinery to be shipped back to Britain, research papers to be taken away and patents to be appropriated. These teams would often include representatives of firms such as ICI and Courtaulds, and others from the shipbuilding, steel or aerospace industries, usually wearing British army officers' uniforms. As well as deciding which equipment and documentation to take, they also identified scientists and technicians to be removed.............................three members of a six-strong Bios team, which included representatives of Pears Soap, Max Factor and Yardley, had called at the home of an elderly woman whose family firm manufactured 4711 eau-de-cologne, a famous brand, and attempted to bully her into handing over the recipe. ...................."An English manufacturer would name his German counterpart and competitor and 'invite' him to England (whether the man comes voluntarily or not is questionable). They then discuss business and the German is gently persuaded to reveal secrets of his trade. When he refuses, he is kept in polite internment until he gets so tired of not being allowed to return to his family that he tells the Englishman what he wants to know. Thus for about £6 a day the English businessman gains the deepest secrets of Germany's economic life."..

[mk1]

Yet another bong-eyed looney racist kicked out of the Leave Campaign. The deep seated racism of the haters is hard to control.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3651979/Anti-EU-businesswoman-forced-quit-board-Vote-Leave-sharing-Islamophobic-messages-online.html

Vote Leave board member has quit the campaign after she retweeted a number of anti-Muslim pictures and posts on social media.
Businesswoman Arabella Arkwright, who runs health clinics and sat on the board and finance committee of the campaign group, stepped down when her online activity came to light.
Vote Leave accepted her resignation after they saw the retweets and the group said the posts did not reflect the campaign's view.



Typical bong-eyed looney response below when a woman dares to challenge his  rudeness

[mk1]

I look at the unemployment in Spain, Italy, Portugal etc.
I see the billions being loaned to them (which they can't afford to pay back) and wonder, if the EU is the panacea, how come those countries are suffering so badly?

Problem for you is the chief fruitcake/looney does not care if the economy does badly if we leave:

I'd rather be poorer with fewer migrants, Farage says
Farage says lower economic growth is a price worth paying to cut immigration.......................Britain would be a better place if it were poorer
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/10555158/Id-rather-be-poorer-with-fewer-migrants-Farage-says.html


There you have the core of the Brexit campaign. All the fancy words can not disguise the real aim is to get rid of all those filthy immigrants. The bong-eyed looney racist message is the only message.

[grim reaper]

Why is it that when people state concerns about the potential of millions of people coming to the UK, others have to immediately resort to calls of 'Racism'?

An old dear wrote to the press this week;
"If it hadn't been for the immigrant staff in the hospital, I don't know how they would have managed".
Can't people see it is NOT about those people already here (as far as I'm concerned, I can't speak for others).
Of course we value hospital, police, shop staff and the myriad of other people of all races that have come to this country, found a job and contribute to the welfare and economy of the country in general.
I'n not in UKIP, I don't know who the 'Ukippers' are on here.

I was PM'd by one and I didn't respond to him. Not out of badness, I just don't want to be 'involved' in any way, shape or form with politicians in the town.

I voted UKIP recently for tactical reasons, that doesn't mean to say I follow them hook, line and sinker.
But I digress; this tiny island of ours can NOT support the potential millions of people that could make their way here.
If we were as large as France, Spain or Germany it MIGHT be do-able, but the simple fact is we are physically too small.
Our welfare, medical and job opportunity situation simply couldn't cope with the influx.
It wouldn't be fair either to the people in this country that struggle NOW to get doctor, dentist, hospital appointments or employment.

Why is it racist to want to look after the people already here (our duty of care)?
I don't believe ANYONE has stipulated "No immigration at all". The vast majority of sensible people want controlled immigration, in numbers our systems can cope with and so we know who is coming in.
Nothing more, nothing less.

[steveL]

It's not that the people falling for this crap are racists but that many of the people peddling it certainly are and are using it to frighten others with mis-truths, non-truths and exaggeration.

Hartlepool has a very low level of migrants of any description and its main problem, as Heseltine pointed out last week, is that there aren't enough jobs for the people of working age who live here.

Perhaps the 'old dear' you talk of, if she exists at all, has been frightened by the disgusting UKIP poster launched by Farage last week which if you substituted the Syrian faces for Jews would have done Goebbels proud.

[akarjl]

Hartlepool has a very low level of migrants of any description and its main problem, as Heseltine pointed out last week, is that there aren't enough jobs for the people of working age who live here.

Correct. The stay campaign is arguing that a larger percentage of immigrants come from outside UK and we control that.

Fine- so lets control everyone who comes to UK to work including those from Europe. Apply a process, the basis of which should be a job to go to and somewhere to live- as opposed to leave the door propped open for anyone from Europe to wander in.

this tiny island of ours can NOT support the potential millions of people that could make their way here.
If we were as large as France, Spain or Germany it MIGHT be do-able, but the simple fact is we are physically too small.
Our welfare, medical and job opportunity situation simply couldn't cope with the influx.
It wouldn't be fair either to the people in this country that struggle NOW to get doctor, dentist, hospital appointments or employment.

Why is it racist to want to look after the people already here (our duty of care)?

Perhaps that should be duty of care for those who are already here?

This thread is becoming a little pointless. I am of the opinion a large percentage have made their minds up for their own reasons. Let me emphasise that is my OPINION. Other may disagree and I respect that.

Over the years I have worked in:

Hong Kong= work visa required
China= work visa required
Ghana = work visa required
DPR = work visa required
Angola = work visa required
Saudi Arabia = work visa required
Azerbaijan = work visa required

They vet who wishes to enter- if you have a job /sponsor/place to stay you get in. if not you have to be able to invest in the country to finance a business. Why is this such a bad thing? Are these economies "loonies and racists" because they wish to exercise control over who enters?

Why on earth would we want to just open the door given our economic situation?

Calling people loonies ( define loony? ) or racists if they dare to actually disagree with your views achieves nothing. No doubt I will be accused of being both as a result of genuine concerns and a desire to see those who comes to UK being vetted and monitored.

[mk1]

this tiny island of ours can NOT support the potential millions of people that could make their way here.

Potential/could?

You have fallen for the propaganda posters that are designed to stir your base instincts and appeal to your 'fear'. It is a UKIP con and you should be ashamed you were taken in  by it.

If we were as large as France, Spain or Germany it MIGHT be do-able, but the simple fact is we are physically too small.

Depends how you slice your cake. London has a pop. density of  5,491 per sq km. Scotland is 65 per sq km. The UK as a whole has 262 per sq km and England 410
Germany 228 per sq km. Holland 407 & Belgium 371
On your simplistic analogy London should have  collapsed under the weight of all those people but clearly it has not and the 'too crowded' claim is bogus

[steveL]

Hartlepool's argument and that of the North East generally is with the southern, South-East obsessed Government - not the EU. As a matter of fact, the North East does disproportionately well out of the EU. The idea that if the UK made no financial contribution to the EU the same amount of money would be forthcoming to the North East is fancifull on past records - it's far more likely that it would go to a Crossrail 3 or a 4th runway at Heathrow.

I could make a better case for the North East to leave the UK than I could for it to leave the EU.

For heaven's sake, Boris thinks Nissan is in Newcastle !

[steveL]

Why on earth would we want to just open the door given our economic situation

You seem to have conveniently missed the fact that the tax contribution of immigrants is a net gain for the Government and is actually proportionally higher than that of the home population. Immigrants contribute more tax than they consume.

[mk1]

The vile despicable haters have sunk to a new low. These people are absolute filth.

He said 'I have donated the steam off my p*ss

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-humber-36587267

I can not link the newspaper report as the auto censor corrupts the link but it is in the Independent