What's going on?

[DRiddle]

Topcat, having a choice on what you can do isn't a reason why you did it.

Choice - an act of choosing between two or more possibilities.

Reason - a cause, explanation, or justification for an action or event.

A choice isn't a reason in the same way a dog isn't a washing machine.

If you can't offer a reason then that's fine. But that was my point. Most brexit voters i've met can't.

[DRiddle]

Just a thought, but if the Councillors had voted to join the Lib Dem's or the Labour Party, would you be having the vapours still.....?

Yes, if ANY councillors were elected as independents then very quickly opted to join a political party i would speak out about it.

[akarjl2]

DRiddle,I personally voted to leave the EU because I wanted to ,because I was offered a personal choice in what I wanted and because I was able to let my choice be known. That was a good enough set of reasons for me and it should be enough for you and everyone else to accept my choice and not try to impose their own choice on me.

Here Here! aka democracy.....a concept which has been ignored by most members of parliament, many of whom should be bricking it now as they face xmas 2019 on the dole........

[akarjl2]

But that was my point. Most brexit voters i've met can't.

An assumption? Perhaps it is simple a case of they believe why they voted a certain way is none of your business?

I do agree with some of your logic , anyone elected as an independent who then chooses to join a specific political party should resign- they were elected by an area to act independently

[grim reaper]

jeez, a marriage made in hell:  Riddle & mk1. 
Tinpot dictators, belittling anyone that dares to offer up an opinion, opposite to their myopic viewpoint.
People on here are not complaining about mk1's point of view on subjects, just his vituperative language against those that are allowed (by law), to have their own opinions on various subjects.
If you don't follow HIS line of thought, you immediately are referred to as a 'bong-eyed loon' etc, etc, ad nauseam.
In a democratic society, people are allowed differing points of view. Political discourse should be encouraged, without reference to schoolyard name-calling.

Riddle says he hasn't seen any reason put on here WHY we want to leave the EUSSR. There has been, many times. Unlike mk1, I can't be ar**& to go back and search for them but here's MY reasons;
I want to trade with Europe but do not want our legal and political spheres run by the likes of unelected Junckers, Barniers etc. can you imagine France & Germany allowing themselves to be run by a cabal from England, Scotland, Ireland & Wales?
I can imagine Juncker gasping over his glass of Petrus '45 at the very thought.

Before we pour more billions into the EU, I want their books to be passed by an independent auditor. For 20 odd years the accounts of the EUSSR have failed to 'balance'.
No company in the world would be allowed to disburse so much money, for so long, without financial probity.

According to mk1, the EUSSR had no intention of having its own army. We now know that along with its own police force (Europol), it is well on the way to its own army. German ministers have voiced the opinion it own to be administered by the German ministry.
I have an uneasy feeling of deja vu.

Riddle still thinks he is talking down to schoolkids; sit up straight at the back, remove that chewing gum at once boy! How condescending.

Like others, I rarely post on here any more. Some of the best posters of the past are long gone.
These days, even a great guy like fred c is pilloried for having the audacity to have his own opinions on a subject.
No, posters are not afraid to voice opinions, simply sick of reading the long diatribe of attacks on people, simply for having their own point of view.
That way lies Stalin, Pol Pot, Hitler, Mussolini, Ghadaffi, Hussein, Mugabe, Ceausescu etc.

[DRiddle]

You don't have a 'point of view' simply because you've exercised your democratic right to vote brexit. That's a CHOICE, as i explained.

A point of view involves being able to articulate that viewpoint.

do not want our legal and political spheres run

Which legal spheres are you looking forward to having autonomy over post brexit? Is there a particular EU law or laws which grind your gears?

[Topcat]

You don't have a 'point of view' simply because you've exercised your democratic right to vote brexit. That's a CHOICE, as i explained.

A point of view involves being able to articulate that viewpoint


It is also a choice not to want to get involved in a debate with someone who will never admit that his point of view could possibly be wrong. I think it is something they learn at teacher training college.

[diSme]

I voted to leave because my belly (gut feeling) told me it was the right thing to do, and that's good enough for me.

[Inspector Knacker]

But that was my point. Most brexit voters i've met can't.

I do agree with some of your logic , anyone elected as an independent who then chooses to join a specific political party should resign- they were elected by an area to act independently

It's a point I'd agree with normally. HOWEVER....when MP's started migrating across the chamber to join the Lib Dem's, it was proclaimed OK to have change of mind and OK for voters change their minds after all it was a looooong time since that pesky referendum vote. So what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

[DRiddle]

Excellent, so my point was (and is) i've yet to meat a brexit voter willing or able to offer legitimate factual reasons for why they voted the way they did.

I've asked for reasons several times and as yet literally nobody has offered any, of any substance.

Perhaps you're unwilling, but perhaps you're unable.

I suspect it's the latter.

[akarjl2]

But that was my point. Most brexit voters i've met can't.

I do agree with some of your logic , anyone elected as an independent who then chooses to join a specific political party should resign- they were elected by an area to act independently

It's a point I'd agree with normally. HOWEVER....when MP's started migrating across the chamber to join the Lib Dem's, it was proclaimed OK to have change of mind and OK for voters change their minds after all it was a looooong time since that pesky referendum vote. So what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

Proclaimed ok by whom?

The only people who seem to think it is ok to change their minds are the mp's changing their minds.

If someone is elected by voters as a representative of a specific party and then resign from the party and join another one they should resign and allow voters the opportunity choose someone who represents their political views. The current system allows clowncillers or MPs to change their minds without the electorate being consulted.

Bit like engaging a driver with a jag because you want to be driven around in a jag .....who then decides a Skoda would be more to THEIR liking= time to get a driver with a jag......

[akarjl2]

Excellent, so my point was (and is) i've yet to meat a brexit voter willing or able to offer legitimate factual reasons for why they voted the way they did.

I've asked for reasons several times and as yet literally nobody has offered any, of any substance.

Perhaps you're unwilling, but perhaps you're unable.

I suspect it's the latter.

Correct...personally I see no reason to...especially when politicians change parties without seeking the approval of the electorate.

[DRiddle]

Isn't that a completely separate issue? In that all the MP's who have jumped ship of late have changed parties (mostly) because of their views on brexit?

They've articulated their reasons for wanting to join either a more brexit focused party, or a more remain advocating party.

You seem to have voted brexit without a clue as to actually why you did so. Don't you think it's strange to do something like vote without actually having reasons for your choice?

[Inspector Knacker]

Proclaimed ok by whom?

The only people who seem to think it is ok to change their minds are the mp's changing their minds.
Swinson for a start, I didn't see her scolding them and sending them back to their electorate to get the OK.
If someone is elected by voters as a representative of a specific party and then resign from the party and join another one they should resign and allow voters the opportunity choose someone who represents their political views. The current system allows clowncillers or MPs to change their minds without the electorate being consulted.
I don't recall you coming on here to complain about the MP's . Come on, let's not beat about the bush, it's because they joined the Brexit Party.?
Bit like engaging a driver with a jag because you want to be driven around in a jag .....who then decides a Skoda would be more to THEIR liking= time to get a driver with a jag......
This gets interesting. So which Party is the Jag....... ? Labour?

[akarjl2]

You seem to have voted brexit without a clue as to actually why you did so.

You have no idea why I voted the way I did.

I choose not to discuss why I voted the way I did.

Big difference - elected politicians should not have the luxury of jumping ship without seeking the approval of the people they allegedly represent.

Just saying.........