The next meeting of the full council is due to take place on Thursday, 12th November and will include information on the agreement to set up a Teesside Combined Authority complete with an elected Mayor.
Anyone thinking of submitting a public question will need to do so by 12 noon tomorrow (Thursday)
No agenda has yet been made available
Surely CAB now has even less of an excuse to resist putting the issue of re-joining Teesside to a public vote. If it's good enough for Durham then it's good enough for us - any lie that a referendum isn't an option has just been blown well and truly out of the water.
Apparently a referendum can't be held, it would need to be in the form of a "Poll".... this was mentioned in an Audit & Governance meeting this morning 6th November at 10am..... the cost of such a Poll would be in the region of £80,000.
The decision to go ahead with joining Tees Valley will be discussed & voted on in the full council meeting next thursdat 12th November.
Was it a Poll or a Referendum when the town voted not to have an elected Mayor? It follows that whatever it was, the exercise needs to be repeated before we have another elected Mayor foisted on us against the people's will.
Isn't it funny how the £80,000 cost wasn't an issue when CAB wanted to take Drummond's place?
Besides, this lot waste that amount before lunchtime most days. £3m gone to OFCA since 2009? I wonder how much of that paid Cranney's 'livery' bills for the family Gee Gee business.
An extract from the report presented to the Finance and Policy Committee gives us a taste of things to come:
Transport (paragraphs 17-19)
4.8 There are a number of key transport schemes which are needed to make it easier for passengers and businesses to move around the region (including widening the A19; a new Tees crossing; improvements to Darlington station; improving east-west connectivity in the area and electrification of the Northallerton-Teesport line). These schemes are major projects which take years to develop. The deal recognises the importance of those schemes and commits the Government to working with Tees Valley to develop detailed business cases.
4.9 The deal also puts Tees Valley at the forefront of new proposed arrangements for buses which will mean we can improve services so that people have better access to jobs and can travel more easily around the area.
Note the total concentration on the Stockton/Middlesbrough/A66 Corridor.
This is worth a read if only to appreciate how it is possible to produce 29 pages of text and still say absolutely nothing. This document is full of generalised and totally unsubstantiated claims of passed achievements by the likes of Tees Valley Unlimited.
Quote4.9 The deal also puts Tees Valley at the forefront of new proposed arrangements for buses which will mean we can improve services so that people have better access to jobs and can travel more easily around the area.
Obviously, Gill Alexander doesn't watch the local news or she would be aware that similar plans for buses within the North East Combined Authority in Newcastle have just been kicked into touch by the Inspectorate.
http://www.hartlepool.gov.uk/egov_downloads/06.11.15_-_Finance_and_Policy_Committee_Agenda.pdf
Members of the Mob explained away their reservations about joining a "Greater Teesside" with the need to have a new "Constitution" for the devolved authority.
You can see it a mile off..... The Smoggies will run rings around this shower
so you agree to join this thing then decide how it's going to work. What a plan ??? ??? ???
I see that CAB will be one of the new portfolio holders in the new Mayor's cabinet. I wonder how much that will be worth. :-\
Quote from: not4me on November 06, 2015, 05: PM
I see that CAB will be one of the new portfolio holders in the new Mayor's cabinet. I wonder how much that will be worth.
£5000 to SAB buys the hospital closure.
High paying non-job for CAB buys Hartlepool
CAB can be stopped by Foggy voters next year
Quote from: Hartlepudlion on November 06, 2015, 07: PM
CAB can be stopped by Foggy voters next year
You are right about that..... but it requires a group of people to join together behind 1 strong candidate, & to help fund & support that campaign, to leaflet & canvas the ward.... ideally the candidate, who ever it is needs to be in a position to start the fight asap.
I love the reference to the electrification of the Teesport Northallerton. The Teesport thing is neither here nor there, the real outcome would be the opportunity to run an electrified service for passenger trains from Middlesbrough direct to London.
The tone of the document is just so reminiscent of the sort of wishful tosh pumped out effortlessly by the unmourned Cleveland County.
I recall being informed that Hartlepool wouldn't be included in the then metro tram system, but would benefit from real time message systems at bus stops, ironic in a town where the bus business virtually disappears after tea time.
Quote from: fred c on November 06, 2015, 09: PM
Quote from: Hartlepudlion on November 06, 2015, 07: PM
CAB can be stopped by Foggy voters next year
You are right about that..... but it requires a group of people to join together behind 1 strong candidate, & to help fund & support that campaign, to leaflet & canvas the ward.... ideally the candidate, who ever it is needs to be in a position to start the fight asap.
That strong candidate could be you Fred ?
QuoteI love the reference to the electrification of the Teesport Northallerton. The Teesport thing is neither here nor there, the real outcome would be the opportunity to run an electrified service for passenger trains from Middlesbrough direct to London.
The tone of the document is just so reminiscent of the sort of wishful tosh pumped out effortlessly by the unmourned Cleveland County.
I recall being informed that Hartlepool wouldn't be included in the then metro tram system, but would benefit from real time message systems at bus stops, ironic in a town where the bus business virtually disappears after tea time.
You can see how this would play out. Once this line was electrified, the main-line electric trains could run from Middlesbrough to London stealing passengers from Grand Central at Northallerton, Thirsk and York and probably making the direct Grand Central operation from Sunderland unviable. Actually, come to think of it, electrification isn't a prerequisite; they could, and probably are, pushing for this now using diesel trains.
Does anyone know why the Grand Central goes through Stockton station but doesn't stop? Surely this would give 'Teesside' its direct link?
Nothing of any good has ever come from having closer links to Teesside; we should have learned that lesson from the days of Cleveland County.
Even without this combined authority nonsense, we have seen the loss of our hospital, coroner service, courts and a Police station open 24/7. Who knows what else has been lost that we don't know and it will only accelerate if we continue down this route. Everything will be centred around the A66 corridor with Hartlepool left as a spectator haemorrhaging yet more jobs to Teesside City.
We all know the consequences, we all know how it's going to pan out. Yet, the boys who make the noise plough relentlessly toward the iceberg.
The Titanic wasn't unsinkable and neither is Hartlepool. They are presiding over this communities dismemberment and appear blissfully unaware of the consequences, like tap dancers in a minefield, the bang will eventually come and the warning signs were clear.
I understand there's a propsal to run a joint service from Sunderland via Newcastle to London and a service from Middlesbrough to London by the the new owners of the East Coast line franchise and where does that leave Grand Central....?
Doubtless we'd be told to travel to Middlesbrough for a much better service, funny how when we lose some service we're always assured it's so much better, despite the fact it obviously isn't.
Just a thought, but if it did happen how would you get from the boro to Hartlepool..... the trains like the buses finish embarassingly early.
Trouble is, you're up against the " My granda voted for them , my Dad voted for them and I vote for them" mindset...... if some them stood unopposed minus the safety net of the party they'd come a poor second.
I sat through 90 minutes of blah blah from The Mob Members on Thursday & the overiding impression from them was......
We don't know how this amalgamation is going to work.... who can vote on various matters...... does the elected Mayor have the final say on things.....we will need to have discussions on the New Authorites Constitution......who gets what of the £15 million every year......
They have all of those quiries, all of the uncertainties of how the whole sheebang is going to work.....
And still the LabTor Mob are going to vote for it to go through.
Quote from: fred c on November 07, 2015, 02: PM
We don't know how this amalgamation is going to work... nowt new there then. who can vote on various matters......the word farce comes to mind does the elected Mayor have the final say on things.....we won't ...!we will need to have discussions on the New Authorites Constitution.....er no, you'll be told what to do..who gets what of the £15 million every year......simple answer to this one, you get nowt, it's bound for smoggie central
And still the LabTor Mob are going to vote for it to go through.
I get the impression that CAB is totally out of his depth here and is just getting swept along with the current without even the wit to defend Hartlepool's corner.
Who the hell signs up for something when they don't even know how it will work? They should have stopped someone in the street and asked them because everyone in Hartlepool knows exactly how it will work with everything focussed on the central Middlesbrough hub. CAB has been mesmerised by the prospect of an extra £3m (which the town won't even get to see) and by the prospect of getting a seat at the big boys table complete with an additional allowance for himself.
Agree with a lot of that. We're going into this (seemingly) blind to the facts. I have a lot of concerns about how this will pan out. Also, with regard to the much heralded £450 million, 15 million a year over 30 years, do we even know whether that takes into account inflation? This is a 30 year deal. £15 million a year across 5 authorities is (at best £3 million each). We know the chances are it'll be divided per head rather than split even 5 ways. How much is £3 million quid going to be worth a 5 years time? 10 years time 25 years time?
Just look at a inflation calculator and see how much £10,000 would have bought you 30 years ago. £3 million a year will be worth a lot less very quickly in reals terms.
Even if the money IS adjusted accordingly with inflation I still think we'll lose even more key services like remaining elements of our health services, eduction, such as perhaps a college going to the wall, transport services etc. it's got disaster written all over it.
Personally I'd rather stay out of the deal and save the £3 million by not funding OFCA, MRA, cafés in graveyards etc.
Quote from: marky on November 08, 2015, 11: AM
I get the impression that CAB is totally out of his depth here and is just getting swept along with the current without even the wit to defend Hartlepool's corner.
Who the hell signs up for something when they don't even know how it will work? They should have stopped someone in the street and asked them because everyone in Hartlepool knows exactly how it will work with everything focussed on the central Middlesbrough hub. CAB has been mesmerised by the prospect of an extra £3m (which the town won't even get to see) and by the prospect of getting a seat at the big boys table complete with an additional allowance for himself.
He will also receive a Crusty The Clown Hat...... the top & bottom of it is, they are prepared to sign up to a no get out deal, before the the detailed operational systems for the new authority are in place.
It's a bit like saying you are going to the Moon, & not having a Spaceship..... absolute madness by Calamity & his crew.
Has the dear leader been living in a bubble not to realise that the original Cleveland municipally shafted Hartlepool. I can't see it's offspring being anymore beneficial to our town and fear we are entering the wilderness years under its rule.
£3 million a year is peanuts, our much heralded useless interchange cost more and look what we got for our money, a car park and three deserted bus shelters. Touble is we probably won't see a penny of it.... aside from the odd pointless novelty project to keep up appearances.
I love to use Tumbleweed Junction as an example.... millions for a few bus stops that nobody wanted and then bus subsidies removed so that there were no buses to use . Odd that.
Quote from: craig finton on November 07, 2015, 09: AM
Does anyone know why the Grand Central goes through Stockton station but doesn't stop? Surely this would give 'Teesside' its direct link?
It certainly would, but it would cut any reason to run a service from Middlesbrough and we can't have that now can we.
I find it ironic how when we have to travel through there for a service it's classed as an 'improved' service.... try it with our Teesside 'cousins' to travel through to Hartlepool for a service and dummies are spat out big time. Ironic.
Teessiders have a 2 trains an hour direct service to a mainline station (Darlington)and 1 an hour to York. That's 3 trains per hour. In the last timetable adjustment the Hartlepool connection to York (via Thornaby) had a slight change or running times. Now if you want to connect to the York train you travel from Hartlepool to Thornaby and arrive 4 minutes after the train has left and face a 55 minute wait for the next one. They used to connect but that all changed. Our car-mileage allowance guzzling councillors did absolutely nothing about it. They never raised a single voice of complaint. Given the times I have seen the SCABs travelling 1st Class on the GC to London or Mad Dog on her regular jaunts back to New Street to see her abandoned family the Councils free GC pass must get a hammering!
They run the trains for the people of Teesside and if Hartlepool misses out then so be it.
Just on a legal point the statutory time period of notice of this could be discussed is flawed. QC advice is anything that HBC agree is not valid.
Basically illegal. Proper procedure has not been followed.
I would think that you would need to be a little more specific than that if you wanted to make an issue of it.
In hand.
I think the signed agreement was subject to the endorsement of the full Council of each of the participating authorities. Hartlepool Council is to debate (don't make me laugh) this tomorrow night and a vote taken. If (ha ha) the vote to join is passed by the full Council it becomes valid and that's it. So from tomorrow we are officially in. Already decided. Done deal.
This is being pushed as a 'no choice' deal but read the report carefully and you can see that it's only the first stage. Planning is also on the way to Teesside City although you'd never know it until you read the spin about bringing brown field sites back into use. You're only told the good bits; not that the only way to do this is to hand over responsibility for planning in its entirety to the Combined Authority.
In addition, how sustainable is it to have the newly elected Mayor able to set business rates while still having 5 different levels of council tax? In other words, once they've got settled in, expect responsibility for Finance to also be heading down the A19 to Middlesbrough.
Also interesting to Google around the other Combined Authorities being set up around the country who are at different stages of the process and to see how things are panning out. As well as the Leaders forming a new Cabinet, picking up a new special responsibility allowance along the way, (the special responsibility allowance for Manchester, for example, is working out at around £21,000 per cabinet member) there are also moves to form new committees within Combined Authorities, taking 3 councillors from each authority, each with its own new chairman and special responsibility allowance.
This all comes after they start thinking about a new constitution which absurdly comes after each authority has voted to join. It's like voting for someone on X Factor before they've actually opened their mouth to sing. :o
Voting for something before you know how it will operate is ridiculous. This is a 30 year deal so we will be stuck with it for at least 30 years. Totally absurd.
I haven't met anyone in town who is in favour of this.....democracy my ar**.
http://www.gazettelive.co.uk/business/business-news/boulby-potash-mine-job-losses-10432420#ICID-FB-Gaz-main
Why are we joining up with authorities having the economic heart ripped out of them?
Better late than never. I don't remember UKIP saying much when others were fighting for a referendum last Spring
Actually, perhaps 'better late than never' should be UKIP's new slogan - having such a referendum on the same day as the local elections next May might well save a bit of money but it will also be too late - the Combined Authority will come into affect, appropriately enough, on April Fools Day - April 1st.
I wouldn't worry too much about the date. The battle is for the Junta to give us a referendum in the first place. After all, to quote Christopher Akers-Belcher himself, 'it is only right and proper for the people of Hartlepool to have their say in how they are governed."
Mind you, he was chasing a £16,500 pay increase at the time; this time, he gets a pay increase if he DOESN'T give us a referendum.
mmmm .... I wonder which way it will go :-)
Read more: http://www.hartlepoolmail.co.uk/news/hartlepool-s-ukip-members-call-for-referendum-on-devolution-proposals-1-7567713#ixzz3rIcT6low
Personally think we should be thinking of those who are losing their livelihood's, rather than trying to score political points.
Well, that was one of the most bizarre council meetings for quite some time.
:o
Just a thought:
The single
CrossRail link in London will cost £15billion, 33 times the £450m the Combined Authority has been promised. The difference is that the Combined Authority will receive the money at a rate of £15m a year spread over 30 years and part of that £15m will be used to pay the elected Mayor, his Cabinet and the administration staff of the Combined Authority.
On a pro-rata basis by population, Hartlepool will receive £2.1m per year but as the money will be pooled, there's no guarantee Hartlepool will receive even this amount.
(A 3rd runway at Heathrow will cost an estimated £10billion.)If this is the
Northern Powerhouse then it's running on two AA batteries.
This is the deal the Labour sheep have just signed us up to for 30 years while at the same time admitting:
- They have no idea how it will work
- They haven't even started discussing what the constitution of the new Combined Authority will be.
- Although they do know the newly elected Mayor will have 'Autonomous Powers', they have no idea what that means or what those powers will be.
- They have no idea how much the new Mayor will be paid along with his Cabinet.
- The new Combined Authority plans to set up a new Teesside Development Corporation which will also be funded from the £15m yearly payment.
- The power of the elected Mayor and the Combined Authority are expected to widen and increase over time but they don't know how.
- They voted against waiting until they knew what they were voting for before they actually voted on it.
- They voted against following Durham's example of holding a poll on whether the people actually wanted an elected mayor or indeed a Combined Authority.
- Labour Leader Jeremy Corbyn and local MP, Iain Wright have both said that the move to a combined authority/ elected Mayor should be put to a public vote but the local Labour Group ignored their comments.
On a lighter note, we learnt that:
- Mr Grumpy Jim proved that he could read from a script.
- We had it confirmed that time restrictions only apply to opposition Councillors
-
Marjorie James is an a*r**o** . . . . no scrub that one; we already knew that. ::)
QuoteOn a lighter note, Mr Grumpy Jim proved that he could read from a script.
He also appeared to be wearing a poppy borrowed from Liberace . . .
Now that the dust has settled on another farcical council meeting, my other general observations of the two and a half hour pantomime are as follows.
(1) The Labour Group still seem intent on trying to give the impression decisions are made there on the floor of the council chamber and not before hand in committee room B by a select few.
(2) Stephen Akers-Belcher has indeed lived up to my prediction that he will remain 'mute' in the council chamber between now and May, in the hope that the voting public forget his lies and don't remember the disgrace he brought on this authority.
(3) A certain councillors frequent visits to the toilet during the meeting were a textbook example of 'breaking the seal'.
(4) The Labour group reminded us they are more than prepared to agree to anything in principle they think will court favour with the public (giving up the members free car parking), and then going back on their implied intention once the elections are over.
(5) It remains blindingly obvious to anyone within the civic centre that the level of political awareness of a former Labour group leader, exceeds that of the entire current Labour Group combined.
(6) Despite various 'olive branches' from so called opposition councillors the Labour Group are still riddled with spite.
(The ridiculous situation at the end when the council leader refused to extend the meeting in an attempt to avoid answering Councillors Brashs question about car parking was laughable. Having been forced to finish the meeting at 9.30, opposition councillors pointed out it was only 9.27 and there was still 3 minutes left in the meeting. Councillor James then answered the question (sort of), and Brash's rebuttal took us to 9.30. THEN having been made to look ridiculous by Brash, James then wanted to reply and continue the debate beyond 9.30.
'Opposition' councillors were then laughing saying "Sorry Marjory it's 9.30". An utter shambles in full view of the few members of the public masochistic enough to still be there at the end.
What we got last night was proof positive of the hypocrisy that is endemic within The Mob, Calamity Chris & Mad Dog both affirmed their fierce opposition to "Elected Mayors" but then, promptly turned that position on it`s head by voting for the combined authority, headed by..... An Elected Mayor.
You really couldn`t make this up, if the meeting had been next month it could have passed for the Christmas Panto.
The most Important decision on th futureof the town for the next 30 years & this is the best The Mail can come up with.
http://www.hartlepoolmail.co.uk/news/local/there-will-not-be-a-referendum-in-hartlepool-over-tees-valley-devolution-1-7569535
Quote from: pensionater on November 12, 2015, 06: PM
Personally think we should be thinking of those who are losing their livelihood's, rather than trying to score political points.
what a stupid and totally puerile comment. Is it not possible to sympathise with those who have lost their jobs and at the same time object to the way the town is being forced into something it doesn't want?
You could do what Clarke did last night and cynically use and twist those redundancies as a reason to join a Combined Authority. Note, Tees Valley Unlimited did nothing to prevent those redundancies and kept very quiet when they were announced until, that is, it heard of the Government's £80m 'aid package' then suddenly it became interested at the thought of getting its hand on some of that money.
I was struck by the number of councilors who declared an interest via their Union membership, strange then, it can`t be remembered when a number of them were last gainfully employed.
In my previous life as an employee, the term used by fellow workers for that kind of behaviour was.......Poncing Off The Tax Payer
While last night's council meeting over-ran, even after blatant attempts to curtail any discussion on the most major issue HBC has faced for years, it's worth going back to September and remembering why that might have been so.
During September's meeting, it was suggested that the October meeting should be delayed until November and after the council had received the Government's response to the Combined Authority proposal made by the 5 councils. As a consequence, the normal October meeting was skipped entirely allowing a backlog to build up for November. Now it's emerged that all might not have been as we were told and, dare I say it, someone might have been telling fibs.
Apparently the SCABS have only just returned from a cruise on the Queen Mary and there's a very good chance that both would have missed the October meeting if it had taken place as scheduled. It could also be that, given Martin-Wells tanned appearance last night, that we might be talking about a foursome. (or perhaps it's just that someone has at last served him with that much-needed slice of fried bread.)
Now it could be, of course, that at the time of the September meeting, both CAB and SAB were totally oblivious to the fact that they were about to embark on yet another cruise trip. It could also have been that the pair are so paranoid about not being present at meetings of the council that an alternative, more acceptable excuse had to be found - one that didn't make it so embarrassingly obvious that all talk of 'cuts', 'difficult decisions' and 'job losses' was being made in the 3rd person and didn't even remotely affect the dynamic duo themselves. It's even possible that when that Government response was received the dynamic duo were still sailing the seven seas, drinking their Veuve Clicquot Champagne in taxpayer funded luxury.
Either way, as we witness people losing their jobs left, right and centre, isn't it comforting that the Great Leader is able to show such empathy for the plebs?
As the saying goes...'Every cloud has a silver lining' and although we (the Hartlepool residents) have been signed up to something that I doubt the majority want, this could hopefully, turn out to benefit us in the foreseeable future. Here's my take on it. Once the Combined Authority starts to make decisions for Hartlepool and local people find that they are getting fobbed off with excuses/ shoddy service/ etc, this will hopefully have an effect on the outcome of future Council elections, with even the most hardened labour/ con
sheep supporter voting for AN other! The Independents need, imo, to capitalise on this asap! I'd give a Kings ransom just to watch Cab, Sab, Wells, and the other scum take 'the walk of shame' on election night! Hamlet's soliloquy...anyone?