Food Bank splits opinion

[fred c]

Just noticed this............. hasn`t taken long has it........ Will IDS take up the challenge ?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/apr/02/iain-duncan-smith-petition-benefits

[whatabouthisthen]

Fred c. Don't forget to include David Miliband and now the SCABS and Councillors of Hartlepool. Do you think the SCABS will donate their increase to their charities?

[SRMoore]

I don't agree that it has to be the government handing out all of the assistance. Even the assistance the government does give comes via our pockets anyway so why not cut out the middle man who is taking a nice cut for himself as an 'admin' fee?

I stand corrected on IDS. However to dismiss his own experiences because of what he married into or where he send his kids to school is a mistake too.
Also, you may wish to look into the background of said market trader too. Not all of his hardship is somebody else's fault.

Thanks for clarifying the travel time Fred. I couldn't remember how much more than 45mins it was so I went for the lower end guess. After having my head buried in public transport facts papers for the past few weeks I can say that because of the poor travel times in/out of Hartlepool by bus to the rest of Teesside, you'd probably be looking at Preston Farm (Stockton) as a 90m journey.

[mk1]

The politicians living on benefits thing has been done to death

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/shortcuts/2013/apr/02/iain-duncan-smith-mp-living-on-benefits

I am reminded of Mrs Thatcher  wondering why people were complaining about student Grants being too low.

"I can't understand all the fuss about student grants.  Carol managed to  save out of hers.  Of course, we paid for her skiing holidays."

[fred c]

The politicians living on benefits thing has been done to death

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/shortcuts/2013/apr/02/iain-duncan-smith-mp-living-on-benefits

I am reminded of Mrs Thatcher  wondering why people were complaining about student Grants being too low.

"I can't understand all the fuss about student grants.  Carol managed to  save out of hers.  Of course, we paid for her skiing holidays."

ROFPML

[whatabouthisthen]

Re transport for job seekers. Whatever happened to Marge's proposal of having a fleet (?) of mopeds to loan out to job seekers to find work? I thought it was one of her better ideas.

Probably not enough dash/baksheesh in it.

[steveL]

Sorry Stevel it seems that the guy wasn't a market trader until after the interview when he changed his description. I can't remember his previous description of himself on twitter but it was basically a bit of a wide boy with a gambling habit. When challenged about his gambling he said as he usually won what is the matter with that - how many times have we heard that from gamblers! There may be a link on the BBC. Apparently it was in a couple or so papers. I'll try and see if I can find a link.

So it looks as though the guy was a ringer, a liar or both.

Looks like I've been had. I read the story in The Echo

http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/10326200.County_Durham_market_trader_in_breadline_row_with_Minister/

[mk1]

Re transport for job seekers. Whatever happened to Marge's proposal of having a fleet (?) of mopeds to loan out to job seekers to find work?

This 'looking for work' thing really gets my goat. The fact is that (as a matter of policy) jobs have been destroyed and thus if overnight every vacancy was filled  90% of the unemployed still would be unemployed.

It seems to me that the unemployed are being used by well paid  middle class do-gooders with unrealistic pension pots  to justify their existence. The unemployed are herded hither and thither to give the illusion  of  'something is being done' in a situation where nothing can be done. Hoops are put in place with no other purpose than to trip people up and meet secret targets for benefit refusals. 
Middle class leeches sucking the last drop of blood from those at the bottom of the pile........................

[mk1]

Oh dear.
Mr Riddle seems to have posted without thinking  Mail readers reply page:


http://www.hartlepoolmail.co.uk/news/local/boost-for-hard-up-families-1-5540998

The worst thing about this food bank isn't the idea itself or the concept of helping the poor.

No decent person has a problem with that.

Why though, do we need a referral system from a GP or from the job centre? There are plenty of people who DO work who are struggling in these times.

Struggling to pay their mortgages and keep a roof over their heads, to pay their heating bills etc.

I have a lot of time for people who try, largely because of their own self respect and dignity to NOT rely on benefits. Under this system though, they're largely stopped from claiming any free food.

Is a person on minimum wage working 60 hours a week, paying their own way out of their own sense of self worth and pride, any RICHER than someone on benefits?

Any person who walks into that food bank, with their head held high and says "I need help to feed my family" should be given support.

Under the current system though, they have to basically prove they're either 'stressed' or on job seekers allowance to warrant any help.

The 28.6% of children living in poverty referred to in the article are those in households with an income of less than £250 per week. Not all of those children's parents are unemployed, but only those whose parents ARE unemployed can claim free food via the food bank.

What about those that DO work but don't earn very much?

Are they not worthy of help?

On top of all that, the worst thing about this scheme was that it was hijacked for publicity by two local councillors who could not resist getting their photo in The Mail posturing and posing as 'Champions of the poor'.

Charitable donations should be discrete, not a cheap opportunity for self promotion by our councillors.


It seems he has misread the following line

All recipients  are referred to the foodbank by one of a number of partner agencies such as GPs and JobCentre Plus.

[whatabouthisthen]

I think mk1 you have not read my post correctly. The Marge in my post is Councillor James of the Labour Party - she of the £50k white goods fame in last year's budget.

I wonder if she has any claims on Council underspend this year

[mk1]

The Marge in my post is Councillor James of the Labour Party

and this make a difference because....................?

[SRMoore]

Do tell us MK1, what would be your solution to the large unemployment problem then? You seem very good at criticising but you aren't as forthcoming with suggestions.

[DRiddle]

MK1, I think very carefully about anything I post on The Mail via their comments links. I'm fully aware that there are 'other agencies' involved in signposting people to the foodbank. I don't know the full list of agencies but I imagine certain residents associations, resource centres and such like are involved in deciding who should be referred to Church Street.

My point was (and still is), I don't support a complex network of 'agents' deciding whether a person is deemed 'poor enough' to be worthy of a few tins of beans or whatever.

In my mind, (and this is where the idealist in me stops me getting further involved in local politics than I have) if a person walks into that food bank and says "I need help to feed my family", then that's good enough for me.

I don't need to know how much benefits they're on, what their postcode is, whether they have any dependant children, when the last time they applied for a job was etc etc. All I need to know, and all i ALREADY WOULD know at that point, is that they'd walked into a food bank and asked for help.

I grew up in faith schools, and every year as a kid we ALL (virtually every kid in the school) brought food in during the run up to Easter that was collected up by local charity people and given to those that needed it. Never once as a 7 year old did I think "OOhh I hope they've came up with a complex network of agencies to refer people to, to ensure the tins of rice pudding my mam donated end up with those that are REALLY POOR, as opposed to those that are just a 'bit poor'".

MK1, you make some valid posts on here. I always read your thoughts and often I agree. You do get very hostile though when people speak of people abusing the benefit system, or when you think people may imply that those on benefits WANT to be there.

For what it's worth, I don't think that. I know life can be tough on benefits, I see it with my own eyes everyday in the town where I live.

Finally, the main point in my post was this http://www.hartlepoolmail.co.uk/news/local/boost-for-hard-up-families-1-5540998

What really sickens the decent people who read The Hartlepool news media is pictures like that.

That picture is 'Hartlepool Politics' in literally a snapshot.

It's an image of two grown men wearing gold chains, stood next to a box of fray bentos pies lamenting about the plight of the poor.

The same two men who will now recieve a 'payrise' the like of which most people in this town can only dream of.

Is that leadership? Is that representing the people? Is that socialism?

Not in my eyes.

[whatabouthisthen]

Mk1 quote It seems to me that the unemployed are being used by well paid  middle class do-gooders with unrealistic pension pots  to justify their existence. The unemployed are herded hither and thither to give the illusion  of  'something is being done' in a situation where nothing can be done. Hoops are put in place with no other purpose than to trip people up and meet secret targets for benefit refusals. 
Middle class leeches sucking the last drop of blood from those at the bottom of the pile............... .........unquote

I don't think that mad dog would like to be called middle class which rather makes your rant rather pointless. I don't know about her pension pots but there is a scheme for Councillors, so you could be correct. Mind you she is, along with her Labour colleagues, sucking the life blood out of this town

[steveL]

I think mk1 might be referring to this kind of thing:

"Likewise, while listening to the representative from Job Centre Plus, I found myself wondering how much empathy he could generate towards the unemployed from within the Armani suit that he was wearing."

"What was apparent, is that we have now reached a point when we no longer consider the unemployed as people in the true sense. We are less concerned now with helping the unemployed than with administering them. The various agencies, comfortable within their own job security, now appear to see their role as being more akin to livestock farmers. Groups of unemployed people are now vetted and classified before being guided into their variously labelled pens and from then on are referred to merely as 'cohorts'. Hence we have the 17 to 19 yr old cohort, the 50+ cohort . . . and so on."

http://www.hartlepoolpost.co.uk/index.php/columnists/black-cat/9-news/171-no-help-for-the-unemployed-here