Mail Quote from Ray Wells: "We also support the recommendation to remove the secondary group leader allowance which I appreciate is a bit like a turkey voting for Christmas. I would remove all leader allowances, apart from the leader of the council."
A straight forward financial attack on PHF by the Labour/Conservative coalition reducing Lilley's leader allowance from 60% to 30%. In short, it looks like Wells has sold his own leaders allowance in return for a sought after Committee Chair which will more than compensate him for any financial loss and gain him the influence he so much wants on decisons that matter to him and his mates.
You missed this one Steve:
Quote from CAB "It would be morally incorrect to accept a rise."
This from the guy who's about to accept a rise in his own pay to £25,000. Maybe it's a typo. Maybe it should have read:
"It would be morally incorrect for anyone else to accept a rise."
You forgot to quote this too, Steve
QuoteCoun Geoff Lilley, group leader of the second largest party, Putting Hartlepool First, said: "I accept we have the lowest basic allowance in the North-East.
"But we are a small town and the council is looking to make savings of around £20m. We are on the bones and to me, every penny matters.
"We should share the degree of financial stress that the town is suffering and I don't think there should be an increase in the basic allowance."
Coun Lilley also said the leader's allowance – which is three times the basic allowance – was "far too much" and argued there should be a recognition of the work group leaders do.
I don't believe it's a deliberate attempt to starve PHF if party funds but I do applaud Geoff for agreeing with the recommendation that the allowances be cut.
Awwwwwwwwwwwwww Cmon Shane, you have got more off than to keep swallowing the Guff from The "Dear" Leader........... But you are correct in applauding Geoff for his stance
I haven't spoken to my 'Dear' leader in about a week Fred. I just don't believe every decision requires tin foil hats to be donned.
Now let us turn our attention to the party who are really bankrolling themselves from the public purse.
Here's something to think about:
(http://www.hartlepoolpost.co.uk/images/allowances%202013_2015.jpg)
* actual spend
This quotes the Remuneration Panel's own figures but compares it to the £343,000 actually spent last year. Notice that the projected savings fall well short of the £100,000 a year saving claimed in Labour's referendum leaflet.
Quote from: SRMoore on April 03, 2013, 02: PM
I haven't spoken to my 'Dear' leader in about a week Fred. I just don't believe every decision requires tin foil hats to be donned.
Now let us turn our attention to the party who are really bankrolling themselves from the public purse.
As always, Shane, you fail to acknowledge that, as a Tory, you are quite detached from what is actually going on in the council chamber. I know your views on the council paying for full-time union reps while UNISON subs go directly to UNISON coffers, a large chunk of which then make their way into Labour Party coffers BUT . . .
Were a motion to be brought in the council for this practice to stop, could you guarantee that the 3 'Tory' councillors would support it? Were you not the one who told us that the Tories would oppose the scrapping of supplementary questions? You got that one wrong didn't you?
Quote from: SRMoore on April 03, 2013, 02: PM
I haven't spoken to my 'Dear' leader in about a week Fred.
Obviously Ray was too busy
plotting negotiating with his mates the fat*ty Belchers to speak to his underlings...............
Quote from: SRMoore on April 03, 2013, 02: PM
Now let us turn our attention to the party who are really bankrolling themselves from the public purse.
Yes indeed.
Any idea when Ray with grace us with his opinions on this or perhaps name the main 'bankrollers'?
Is he frightened such a move would hamper his promotion prospects?
Quote from: steveL on April 03, 2013, 02: PM
Quote from: SRMoore on April 03, 2013, 02: PM
I haven't spoken to my 'Dear' leader in about a week Fred. I just don't believe every decision requires tin foil hats to be donned.
Now let us turn our attention to the party who are really bankrolling themselves from the public purse.
As always, Shane, you fail to acknowledge that, as a Tory, you are quite detached from what is actually going on in the council chamber. I know your views on the council paying for full-time union reps while UNISON subs go directly to UNISON coffers, a large chunk of which then make their way into Labour Party coffers BUT . . .
Were a motion to be brought in the council for this practice to stop, could you guarantee that the 3 'Tory' councillors would support it? Were you not the one who told us that the Tories would oppose the scrapping of supplementary questions? You got that one wrong didn't you?
Steve, it's obvious you're peed that the public won't be bankrolling PHF as much but please try and avoid the childish insults every now and again, eh?
Regarding your claim that I stated that all Conservative councillors would vote against banning supplementary questions - I would suggest you re read the topic you are referring to and see that I clearly stated "I would hope so".
Would I be confident they'd vote for cutting union funding if brought up? No more/less confident of any councillor voting for it since the last time I raised it not a single one dared to stick their head above the pulpit.
Shane, you're no better than the Labour carpetbaggers - the equivalent of the Labour sheep who tow the party line irrespective of whether its moral or not.
I'd say that you at least know the difference between wrong and right, but there's a very strong argument that people like you, who can separate the two, but who are not willing to stand up for what is right when it matters, are much worse than those who don't know the difference.
There are no Tories in the council chamber at the moment. If I were you, I would be making sure that situation was corrected as soon as possible. There's a cuckoo in the forest.
I thought that PHF candidates were happy to do it for nothing or was that just a scam.?
Please do tell me which part was me toeing the party line Steve? Or were you just taking a leaf out of Angies book and simply going for the good soundbite-sod the facts approach?
Now rather than worry yourself with how I should 'deal with' my party, I strongly suggest you focus on your own, which has an association in crisis as you and I both know.
PHF were the first to go on record as opposing any increase in the basic allowance and the only party to call for all party submissions to the remuneration panel to be made public. So far, they are the only party to do so.
Nice try at mis-information, Shane which didn't quite come off. If you're content to have three extra solid labour voters in the council chamber then that's OK with me. PHF has included the three 'Tory' councillors in the labour total as a matter of course for a long time.
I'd stick to your party coffee mornings if I were you and leave the business of giving the town the council it deserves to others with more balls.
Aww come on Steve. You can talk about supposed problems with the labour or conservative party's but when it come to admitting that things aren't all as rose coloured as you like to portray in PHF you get personal and spit your dummy out.
Why has Paul Mitchenson left the party? Why has Alec Gough quit as chairman after only being so for less than a year? I could go on...
Now I'll get back to actions in trying to make this town a better place as opposes to solely being a keyboard warrior. X
Quote from: perseus on April 03, 2013, 04: PM
. I'm sure Shane can see Wells now for exactly what people have been saying he is for months.
The situation is no different from the rest of the Labour group who ignore the antics of their leaders.
The needs of the Party always come first.
The good (wo)men who put up with it and stay silent are part of the problem.
I hold PHF to no higher standard and see only a tactical use for them in countering a greater evil.
Balance is the solution.
You clearly know about as much about what goes on within PHF as you do about what goes on within the Tory Group of three - zilch
. . . and please don't leave kisses at the end of your posts....in the present Tory context, it makes me uncomfortable.
now now...let's not go there ;)
Quote from: steveL on April 03, 2013, 04: PM
You clearly know about as much about what goes on within PHF as you do about what goes on within the Tory Group of three - zilch
. . . and please don't leave kisses at the end of your posts....in the present Tory context, it makes me uncomfortable.
And by refusing to respond to the issues within PHF you have clearly shown that you either
A. know nothing about what goes on in your party
B. Are too blinkered to see it
C. Know the problems but are too busy toeing the party line to project unity
D. A mixture of all of the above.
At least I am honest enough to acknowledge issues in the conservative party and brave enough to speak out against them. Paper tigers indeed my friend.
As for your comments which hint of homophobia - I thought better of you once.
I agree with Perseus Stevel - stop knocking a man's belief and let's combine and attack the real enemy. Shane is a Tory unlike the ones in the Chamber. He does disagree with them. If he gets elected I am sure he will be an asset.
In a party political system there are times when you have to vote together even if you don't entirely agree. Acting as an individual can't work as one is always outvoted and thus achieve nothing. This is one of the reasons I don't think PHF can succeed whilst allowing individuals to vote as they want. There has to be a whip at times - the skill is using it wisely. Labour apply the whip all the time so their Councillors are truly sheep. Last year's budget fiasco and this year's question fiasco are all down to Labour's strict non democratic rules.
Have the Brashs been accepted back into the fold - does anyone know?
I'm not knocking his belief. Shane is a proper Tory and although I don't agree with his views, I'd be first in the queue to defend his right to hold them. However, I do criticise him for continuing to defend a councillor elected as a Tory who invariably supports Labour to the point when he even gets a favourable mention on Labour's regional web site and goes on to support the scrapping of supplementary questions, a move entirely down to one incident where labour councillors were made to feel uncomfortable and, incidentally, flying in the face of his own parties views on localism. Ray Wells is no more a Tory than Cranney is a Socialist. They are peas out of the same pod and motivated by precisely the same thing - self interest.
The Tory Party only has 3 representatives in the council - and they vote with Labour every time. If the majority of voters in West Rural vote to elect a Tory as councillor then I think they should get a Tory - not a Labour cuckoo.
Incidentally and just for the record, Paul has been focussing on the housing plans at Claxton of late and by all accounts has been doing a grand job. He has not left PHF and in fact has just renewed his annual subscription and membership.
Alec had his own reasons for quitting as Chair but continues to make an active contribution and of course, his daughter wiped the floor with Shane in Seaton thanks to a large part on the support of Alec.
My only Gripe with Shane is not his commitment to his party, but his apparent commitment to the 3 Tory Councillors, although i use that term very loosely ( Voting Records Don`t Lie ).
Basically i don`t give a Flying F**k for National Party Politics in Local Government, But in Hartlepool we don`t even have that, what we have is a small number of Self Serving No Goods who are more interested in "Filling Their Boots" than with looking at the problems the town faces & trying to rectify them.
The constant self righteous behaviour of "The Mob", Charity this & Charity that, Welfare this & Welfare that, is all Top Show & is designed to Ingratiate themselves with the people who depend on genuine Charity & Welfare needs.
There is nothing more dispicable than opportunists who adopt the Mantra of Being a Socialist, but are clearly Intent on maximising their connections with people less fortunate than they are.
Its a bit like someone taking money out of the Blind Beggars Cap......
Fred, Steve - Please show me where on this discussion I defended the three Conservative councillors? I don't mind being accused of things providing what I am being accused of is correct.
I will always defend our councillors when I believe they have done right but I will also be the first one to criticise them in person when they don't. As it should be.
Quote from: SRMoore on April 03, 2013, 07: PM
Fred, Steve - Please show me where on this discussion I defended the three Conservative councillors? I don't mind being accused of things providing what I am being accused of is correct.
I will always defend our councillors when I believe they have done right but I will also be the first one to criticise them in person when they don't. As it should be.
I have no reason to doubt your reply Shane...... So, go on you can tell us...... what was their explanation for Voting Against the Question / Supplementary Question Amendment made by Ciilr Brash ?
Ask them. Contact details for all three conservative councillors can be found at www.hartlepoolconservatives.org.uk (http://www.hartlepoolconservatives.org.uk) or www.hartlepool.gov.uk (http://www.hartlepool.gov.uk).
Can I assume that since no example of me defending our councillors occurred in this topic you will be happy to retract your earlier statement?
I asked a simple Question, i thought you might answer it.... but i thought wrong.
I hope your not going to Phone my Boss.
As was the question I asked you prior to it, Fred.
If you have a concern or question about how one or more of the conservative councillors have acted then I suggest you contact them directly. If you choose not to then I can only assume the matter is not of great importance to you.
All the while people 'in fight' on here you're playing into certain people's hands. If you really want to provide meaningful opposition for the greater good of Hartlepool, there is ONE lesson you could learn from them..... UNITE.
I have always been very willing to work with people from all political walks of life for exactly that reason, David. It is however very difficult to maintain that view when certain people are too wrapped up in scoring cheap political points to see past the trees.
Well, I have no dog in this fight. You know my views on what I think you should do to have a better chance of being elected at local level. Anyway, most people on this site seem to be broadly speaking on the same team. Just don't divide yourselves and play into your opponents hands.
Quote from: DRiddle on April 04, 2013, 08: AM
All the while people 'in fight' on here you're playing into certain people's hands. If you really want to provide meaningful opposition for the greater good of Hartlepool, there is ONE lesson you could learn from them..... UNITE.
I Agree Wholeheartedly DR..... But i can`t be held responsible for some people being overly sensitive.
I don`t have an Axe to grind with anyone, certainly not a political Axe, I have often mentioned that National Politics should play no part in local government, however what we have in Hartlepool is a Labour Group & a Tory Group, neither of which reflect the policies of their Parties.
Hence, "The Mob"........Tackling this problem will require a little more co-operation from all on HTH & I certainly don`t have a problem with that.
Is not the current problem that the current 3 Tory councillors are not contributing to being part of an effective opposition to Labour? How can they be if they apparently support everything that Labour do, including doing away with those supplementary questions? I have to say that I myself was shocked to read of their support for this disgraceful stifling of the public's right to question. I wonder what Mr Pickles would think?
On top of CAB's council allowances, he also gets paid around £30K from being the Health Watch Manager from,it seems, by being employed by HDVA.
No wonder the SCABS are interested in charities. They have a bit to go though, to catch up with D Miliband.
I doubt that..