http://www.hartlepoolmail.co.uk/news/local/boost-for-hard-up-families-1-5540998
It seems like the tories plan to pit the working poor against the none working poor is working.
I think the food bank situation is taking advantage of hard up good willed people by the smug greedy upper classes that created the need for food banks.
'Freely you have received, freely give'.
Those that have more willingly give to those that need it more. Without the state being involved and taking a cut as an admin charge. How I prefer things.
Actually, I would be interested to see how true that is. I strongly suspect that the main donors are those who don't have a lot themselves.
I don't think that it's quite as simple as that anymore Stig; historically it was the 'upper classes' who doled out largesse to their serfs, whilst ensuring that they got their pound of flesh from the peasants (whether it be labour, tithes, or droit de seigneur with regards to the gamekeeper's wife).
At least they provided some kind of support, alongside the monks and nuns who looked after the sick, old and infirm. The current lot in Parliament seem to be oblivious to the lives of real people; could it be an inability to perceive 'reality', rather than a wish to trample on sections of the population?
As I said in an earlier thread I totally endorse the work of the food banks, and believe that the world would be a better place if we all chipped in to help people who are stuck in a hard place.
Have you noticed how the Tory spin of 'making work pay' involves making the poor poorer rather than making the low paid workers richer? It's a double-whammy for the Tories. Not only do you save on welfare costs but you make the low paid appreciate that, bad as things are, they could be even worse off.
Can't wait to see Ian Duncan Smith (married into money) switch from his £1,500 a week job to living on £53 a week - which he claims he could do if he had to. I seem to remember some other Tory offering to do the same - he gave up after 3 days.
St Hilda's [as a congregation] contributes to the Foodbank, as do most churches in the town now. Contributions are made by people from varying incomes but the point is that we all recognise that there are people who aren't as well off as us at the moment so we give what we can.
Hopefully those who use the foodbank now will remember the service once they are back on their feet and will freely give something back to help others.
If the poor had any wits about them they would all turn up at Cameron's house for one of his sleepover parties (vol-au-vents, optional).
Quote: "Hopefully those who use the foodbank now will remember the service once they are back on their feet and will freely give something back to help others."
Sadly, it will be a while till they're back on their feet after walking the 10 mile to ask about all those jobs you were talking about, Shane
Quote from: steveL on April 02, 2013, 08: PM
Can't wait to see Ian Duncan Smith (married into money) switch from his £1,500 a week job to living on £53 a week - which he claims he could do if he had to. I seem to remember some other Tory offering to do the same - he gave up after 3 days.
Iain Duncan Smith has described a petition calling on him to live on £53 a week as a 'complete stunt' and says he already knows what it is like to live on the breadline.
The Work and Pensions Secretary told the Wanstead & Woodford Guardian: "This is a complete stunt which distracts attention from the welfare reforms which are much more important and which I have been working hard to get done.
"I have been unemployed twice in my life so I have already done this (lived on the equivalent of £53 a week).
Lets not drag the conversation down to a childish level, Steve.
The Job Centre would expect jobseekers to be looking for work within a 45 minute travel time (or it was when I was last out of work).
Those enquiring about jobs 10 miles away can use the telephones in the job centre free of charge.
@SRMoore - I believe you to be a genuine, decent sort of chappie; I only wish that you would apply a little critique to the rumblings from on high ...
You have things in the wrong order, Shane. IDS was challenged by a market trader who, incidentally, was made redundant after 30 years contributing tax and NI to the state. He had given up, at his age, of finding a job so set himslef up as a market trader working, on avaerage, a 60 hour week. As a result, his benefits were cut to the point when he was left with £53 a week.
IDS was asked about the conflan on Radio 4 and said that he could live on £53 a week 'if he had to' - it was only after listeners heard his remark that a petition was started.
This is IDS talking about his first taste of unemployment:
"It was a shock – absolutely awful. I felt pathetic. I remember telling my wife. We looked at each other and she said: 'God, what are we going to do for money?'"
Duncan Smith's wife, Betsy, is the daughter of the 5th Baron Cottesloe who served as lord-lieutenant of Buckinghamshire in the 1980s and 1990s. Duncan Smith and his wife, who sent their children to Eton, moved into Lord Cottesloe's 17th-century Old House in the village of Swanbourne in Buckinghamshire in 2002.
Aye, it's a tough life for the unemployed, Iain.
4,000 queue in cold for the chance of shop jobs
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/387854/4-000-queue-in-cold-for-the-chance-of-shop-jobs
HUNDREDS of job hunters have applied to work at a new store which is due to open this spring.
A new Tesco Express store, which is set to open in Ocean Road on Walney, has had almost 300 applications for 16 jobs in just four days
http://www.nwemail.co.uk/hundreds-apply-for-jobs-at-new-walney-store-1.1034590?referrerPath=news
IDS married into money, he wed "Betsy" the daughter of the 5th Baron Cottesloe, he sent his kids to Eton, so i don`t expect him to be using a food bank anytime soon.
I fully agree that people who are in difficulty should receive as much help as possible, but that should be via the Government, its 2013 we are one of the wealthiest countries in the developed world & yet we have "Food Banks" what kind of message does that send to the world when we can`t feed, heat & provide shelter to our own people.
This government is intent on "Demonising" people on benefits, setting working poor against unemployed poor, a reduction of 5% in the highest tax rate is a 5% increase in the income of the wealthiest people in the country..... a 1% increase in the £71 jobseekers allowance is a disgrace...
Old people freezing to death, children going hungry, people losing their homes, all that is acceptable to the present government.
But what is also acceptable is the continued Glorification of the Mega Wealthy, The Bonus Culture to Bankers & the sucking up to Big Business.
Food Banks are a neccessary evil in these desperate times, but they are an indictment on the social fabric of this country, what next........... The Workhouse.
Incidentally the radius for employment is a 90 minute journey on Public Transport........
I think your a well meaning decent type of fella Shane............... But Cmon
Get Real & Stop Smelling the Tory Roses......... they smell of Bull Sh*t.
Sorry Stevel it seems that the guy wasn't a market trader until after the interview when he changed his description. I can't remember his previous description of himself on twitter but it was basically a bit of a wide boy with a gambling habit. When challenged about his gambling he said as he usually won what is the matter with that - how many times have we heard that from gamblers! There may be a link on the BBC. Apparently it was in a couple or so papers. I'll try and see if I can find a link.
So it looks as though the guy was a ringer, a liar or both.
Just noticed this............. hasn`t taken long has it........ Will IDS take up the challenge ?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/apr/02/iain-duncan-smith-petition-benefits
Fred c. Don't forget to include David Miliband and now the SCABS and Councillors of Hartlepool. Do you think the SCABS will donate their increase to their charities?
I don't agree that it has to be the government handing out all of the assistance. Even the assistance the government does give comes via our pockets anyway so why not cut out the middle man who is taking a nice cut for himself as an 'admin' fee?
I stand corrected on IDS. However to dismiss his own experiences because of what he married into or where he send his kids to school is a mistake too.
Also, you may wish to look into the background of said market trader too. Not all of his hardship is somebody else's fault.
Thanks for clarifying the travel time Fred. I couldn't remember how much more than 45mins it was so I went for the lower end guess. After having my head buried in public transport facts papers for the past few weeks I can say that because of the poor travel times in/out of Hartlepool by bus to the rest of Teesside, you'd probably be looking at Preston Farm (Stockton) as a 90m journey.
The politicians living on benefits thing has been done to death
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/shortcuts/2013/apr/02/iain-duncan-smith-mp-living-on-benefits
I am reminded of Mrs Thatcher wondering why people were complaining about student Grants being too low.
"I can't understand all the fuss about student grants. Carol managed to save out of hers. Of course, we paid for her skiing holidays."
Quote from: mk1 on April 02, 2013, 09: PM
The politicians living on benefits thing has been done to death
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/shortcuts/2013/apr/02/iain-duncan-smith-mp-living-on-benefits
I am reminded of Mrs Thatcher wondering why people were complaining about student Grants being too low.
"I can't understand all the fuss about student grants. Carol managed to save out of hers. Of course, we paid for her skiing holidays."
ROFPML
Re transport for job seekers. Whatever happened to Marge's proposal of having a fleet (?) of mopeds to loan out to job seekers to find work? I thought it was one of her better ideas.
Probably not enough dash/baksheesh in it.
Quote from: whatabouthisthen on April 02, 2013, 09: PM
Sorry Stevel it seems that the guy wasn't a market trader until after the interview when he changed his description. I can't remember his previous description of himself on twitter but it was basically a bit of a wide boy with a gambling habit. When challenged about his gambling he said as he usually won what is the matter with that - how many times have we heard that from gamblers! There may be a link on the BBC. Apparently it was in a couple or so papers. I'll try and see if I can find a link.
So it looks as though the guy was a ringer, a liar or both.
;D ;D Looks like I've been had. I read the story in The Echo
http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/10326200.County_Durham_market_trader_in_breadline_row_with_Minister/
Quote from: whatabouthisthen on April 02, 2013, 09: PM
Re transport for job seekers. Whatever happened to Marge's proposal of having a fleet (?) of mopeds to loan out to job seekers to find work?
This 'looking for work' thing really gets my goat. The fact is that (as a matter of policy) jobs have been destroyed and thus if overnight every vacancy was filled 90% of the unemployed still would be unemployed.
It seems to me that the unemployed are being used by well paid middle class do-gooders with unrealistic pension pots to justify their existence. The unemployed are herded hither and thither to give the illusion of 'something is being done' in a situation where nothing can be done. Hoops are put in place with no other purpose than to trip people up and meet secret targets for benefit refusals.
Middle class leeches sucking the last drop of blood from those at the bottom of the pile........................
Oh dear.
Mr Riddle seems to have posted without thinking Mail readers reply page:
http://www.hartlepoolmail.co.uk/news/local/boost-for-hard-up-families-1-5540998
The worst thing about this food bank isn't the idea itself or the concept of helping the poor.
No decent person has a problem with that.
Why though, do we need a referral system from a GP or from the job centre? There are plenty of people who DO work who are struggling in these times.
Struggling to pay their mortgages and keep a roof over their heads, to pay their heating bills etc.
I have a lot of time for people who try, largely because of their own self respect and dignity to NOT rely on benefits. Under this system though, they're largely stopped from claiming any free food.
Is a person on minimum wage working 60 hours a week, paying their own way out of their own sense of self worth and pride, any RICHER than someone on benefits?
Any person who walks into that food bank, with their head held high and says "I need help to feed my family" should be given support.
Under the current system though, they have to basically prove they're either 'stressed' or on job seekers allowance to warrant any help.
The 28.6% of children living in poverty referred to in the article are those in households with an income of less than £250 per week. Not all of those children's parents are unemployed, but only those whose parents ARE unemployed can claim free food via the food bank.
What about those that DO work but don't earn very much?
Are they not worthy of help?
On top of all that, the worst thing about this scheme was that it was hijacked for publicity by two local councillors who could not resist getting their photo in The Mail posturing and posing as 'Champions of the poor'.
Charitable donations should be discrete, not a cheap opportunity for self promotion by our councillors.
It seems he has misread the following line
All recipients are referred to the foodbank by one of a number of partner agencies such as GPs and JobCentre Plus.
I think mk1 you have not read my post correctly. The Marge in my post is Councillor James of the Labour Party - she of the £50k white goods fame in last year's budget.
I wonder if she has any claims on Council underspend this year
Quote from: whatabouthisthen on April 02, 2013, 11: PM
The Marge in my post is Councillor James of the Labour Party
and this make a difference because....................?
Do tell us MK1, what would be your solution to the large unemployment problem then? You seem very good at criticising but you aren't as forthcoming with suggestions.
MK1, I think very carefully about anything I post on The Mail via their comments links. I'm fully aware that there are 'other agencies' involved in signposting people to the foodbank. I don't know the full list of agencies but I imagine certain residents associations, resource centres and such like are involved in deciding who should be referred to Church Street.
My point was (and still is), I don't support a complex network of 'agents' deciding whether a person is deemed 'poor enough' to be worthy of a few tins of beans or whatever.
In my mind, (and this is where the idealist in me stops me getting further involved in local politics than I have) if a person walks into that food bank and says "I need help to feed my family", then that's good enough for me.
I don't need to know how much benefits they're on, what their postcode is, whether they have any dependant children, when the last time they applied for a job was etc etc. All I need to know, and all i ALREADY WOULD know at that point, is that they'd walked into a food bank and asked for help.
I grew up in faith schools, and every year as a kid we ALL (virtually every kid in the school) brought food in during the run up to Easter that was collected up by local charity people and given to those that needed it. Never once as a 7 year old did I think "OOhh I hope they've came up with a complex network of agencies to refer people to, to ensure the tins of rice pudding my mam donated end up with those that are REALLY POOR, as opposed to those that are just a 'bit poor'".
MK1, you make some valid posts on here. I always read your thoughts and often I agree. You do get very hostile though when people speak of people abusing the benefit system, or when you think people may imply that those on benefits WANT to be there.
For what it's worth, I don't think that. I know life can be tough on benefits, I see it with my own eyes everyday in the town where I live.
Finally, the main point in my post was this http://www.hartlepoolmail.co.uk/news/local/boost-for-hard-up-families-1-5540998
What really sickens the decent people who read The Hartlepool news media is pictures like that.
That picture is 'Hartlepool Politics' in literally a snapshot.
It's an image of two grown men wearing gold chains, stood next to a box of fray bentos pies lamenting about the plight of the poor.
The same two men who will now recieve a 'payrise' the like of which most people in this town can only dream of.
Is that leadership? Is that representing the people? Is that socialism?
Not in my eyes.
Mk1 quote It seems to me that the unemployed are being used by well paid middle class do-gooders with unrealistic pension pots to justify their existence. The unemployed are herded hither and thither to give the illusion of 'something is being done' in a situation where nothing can be done. Hoops are put in place with no other purpose than to trip people up and meet secret targets for benefit refusals.
Middle class leeches sucking the last drop of blood from those at the bottom of the pile............... .........unquote
I don't think that mad dog would like to be called middle class which rather makes your rant rather pointless. I don't know about her pension pots but there is a scheme for Councillors, so you could be correct. Mind you she is, along with her Labour colleagues, sucking the life blood out of this town
I think mk1 might be referring to this kind of thing:
"Likewise, while listening to the representative from Job Centre Plus, I found myself wondering how much empathy he could generate towards the unemployed from within the Armani suit that he was wearing."
"What was apparent, is that we have now reached a point when we no longer consider the unemployed as people in the true sense. We are less concerned now with helping the unemployed than with administering them. The various agencies, comfortable within their own job security, now appear to see their role as being more akin to livestock farmers. Groups of unemployed people are now vetted and classified before being guided into their variously labelled pens and from then on are referred to merely as 'cohorts'. Hence we have the 17 to 19 yr old cohort, the 50+ cohort . . . and so on."
http://www.hartlepoolpost.co.uk/index.php/columnists/black-cat/9-news/171-no-help-for-the-unemployed-here
Quote from: whatabouthisthen on April 03, 2013, 09: AM
e
I don't think that mad dog would like to be called middle class which rather makes your rant rather pointless...................
If my point had anything to do with Mad Dog I would be worried...................
Quote from: DRiddle on April 03, 2013, 09: AM
Is that leadership? Is that representing the people? Is that socialism?
Not in my eyes.
The implication being:
Labour= socialist= scroungers
Anyone daring to oppose the relentless attack on those bearing 90% of the pain current economic chaos is labelled as a crytpo-communist.
I believe I have been harder on the fa*tty Belchers than most here and I also see them as no better than the posturing Wells. They have no concern for anything but their own power and influence.
I watch as the 'politically driven' people of the left and the right fight it out and flatten bystanders in their crusade to impose their ideals and crush the 'opposition'.
Last night(and purely by chance) I was looking something up about the Chuckle Brothers and found a link to a phantom 'Free school'
http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/at-a-glance/education/exclusive_mystery_of_a_chuckle_brother_s_ghost_school_with_no_staff_or_pupils_1_4220165
Gove awards permission and funding as a pure reflex action!
There are none so dangerous and none more stupid than those driven by political dogma. 'Conviction politics' is a euphemism for dictatorship.
A pox on them all.
Edited to replace incorrect link
Quote from: SRMoore on April 03, 2013, 09: AM
Do tell us MK1, what would be your solution to the large unemployment problem then? You seem very good at criticising but you aren't as forthcoming with suggestions.
The method you prefer would be to tell those who lose their jobs that it is a
'price worth paying' for a greater political ideal and they should spend all their waking time applying for jobs they know they will never get because (as we know)only those who 'strive' deserve any aid.
I have nothing but contempt for the pathetic 'job creation' schemes which 90% of the time provide no proper training and exist only to provide a pool of cheap compliant donkeys for large firms to exploit as well as to inject 'fear' into full time staff and keep wages low.
If there are not enough jobs to go around (and clearly
nearly everyone recognises this) then there is a problem.
How do you react?
Do you spend all your energy trying to shave a few million off the bill (
Warning: check the amount paid in unemployment benefit before foaming at the mouth) in order to satisfy cave men who would prefer the unemployed sweep the streets for a pound a day?
As for a solution I have none. However neither do the people you hold in high regard so it seems I am in good company.
However not having a solution (Plan A) is not the signal to start Plan B.
Plan B is the remorseless attack on
anyone claiming benefit in order simply to reduce the benefit bill and thus save money for those who are not unemployed.
Whilst there are no doubt liars cheats and thieves claiming benefits they are in no greater proportion than the amount of those same people at large in the working community. I dare say in terms of money lost the cheats in the working population manage to make off with 1000 times the money obtained by the 'scroungers.
Again, just as an aside. If anyone has read the Cranney's Mountain story they may have noticed that, although those heading up this scam made sure that they did quite well out of it, part of the justification for the loans and grants was that it would provide 'work experience' and 'training opportunities' for the unemployed thereby increasing their chances of obtaining full-time work.
The same sort of spiel surfaced when kids were put on work placement schemes in Morrisons and the like under threat of losing their Job Seekers Allowance and which resulted in howls of protest from labour politicians across the land screaming of exploitation etc.
Funny how, when a local labour councillor sets up his latest scam, he is more than willing to use precisely the same cheap labour source making such people no different from those they condemn.
In truth, the local Labour carpetbaggers have become the very same people that the founders of the Labour Party hated most.
It seems I gave the wrong link in an earlier post.
It is used here as an example of how an intelligent man (Gove) driven by political dogma does a stupid thing.
He could be Labour and the message would be the same.
Correct link
http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/at-a-glance/education/exclusive_mystery_of_a_chuckle_brother_s_ghost_school_with_no_staff_or_pupils_1_4220165
Which one of the following words is used in today's headline in the Daily Mail?
Remember it involves the death of 6 children in an arson attack..
Fire?
Arson?
Death?
Convicted?
Parents?
or..............
was
.....
...
it
..
another
..
aspect
.
like
WELFARE?
I say to all the carpers here that you swim in the same waters as those turds....
Quote from: perseus on April 03, 2013, 03: PM
QuoteLast night(and purely by chance) I was looking something up about the Chuckle Brothers and found a link to a phantom 'Free school'
I was watching the Chuckle brothers playing tennis the other day.... That got very annoying very quickly. ;)
Can't be that bad as they now have the longest running TV program on telly.
Kids absolutely love them.
Quote from: perseus on April 03, 2013, 05: PM
It was a joke.... they were playing tennis.... ("To you, to me.... to you, to me....")
There you have me.
I know of them but not about them...........