http://www.hartlepoolmail.co.uk/news/local/parents-roast-school-over-halal-meat-1-5060738
What exactly is the point of this story exactly? other than to potentially cause division amongst communities and tension between ethnic groups.
In my opinion, the school were initially doing the right thing in just changing it to Halal meat without feeling the need to tell anyone. The bottom line is, they have 40 kids who cannot access dinner in school in accordance with their religion, and 310 or so who it doesnt matter one jot to, how the animals they eat are killed.
So if you take an act utliitarian 'hedonic calculus' approach to decision making, it's a no brainer. Make ALL meat Halal and no body loses, and the muslim children gain something (their dinner). DONT buy halal meat and the 310 none muslim kids dont gain anything extra (or lose anything) and the muslim kids lose out...... THUS, make all the meat halal, and more people benefit overall.
Also, what exactly is the argument for not killing it the halal way? Animals typically are killed either by a stun bolt gun, then have their arteries and/or veins cut, or have the main jugular vein cut (halal), or a gassed in some cases, or in the case of chickens, hung upside down by their feet and electrocuted in water with electricity passed through it. None of them are exactly 'nice' and I wouldn't particularly want to make a six year old aware of ANY of the methods.
Finally, its a FACT that 95% of all Lamb imported from New Zealand is already Halal (as they don't want to alienate half of their export market and about 2 billion customers by killing it in a none halal way).
Most people are ignorent the this FACT so I don't see why keeping them in the dark about this issue would have been such an problem.
Totally dangerous, socially divisive, right wing sh**e from the mail.... which makes a change from the usual extreme left wing sh**e they spout about the need to give half the town free food/travel/fridge freezers/council tax/credit advice/whatever the hell labour think will buy them votes...
now I'm really scared....I find myself agreeing with Perseus :o
He knows a lot about murder ?
Perseus, the only Sh**e is coming from you! how on earth do you know what the other people feel about this? You said.... " 310 or so who it doesnt matter one jot to, how the animals they eat are killed."? It would bother me. If there are only 40 then cater for them in other ways.
Anyone remember John Pool in Saturday night's Mail? A ficticious columnist whose sole purpose was to wind people up by writing the most extreme things. The column was deliberately designed to ruffle feathers so that people would buy the Mail on Saturday to read what he wrote next thereby increasing the circulation figures.
The Mail is a bit more subtle these days but it still slots in the odd article provocateur - you see it most in those silly on-line polls.
Perseus,please Re read both of your letters on this subject and you may come to the conclusion that what you have written is Totally Pointless!
Oh, and by the way, Calm Down and stop being so abusive , after all it is only a discussion site! :)
I can see both sides to this story but there's only one aspect that bothers me; I wouldn't go to live in a country that I knew made me wear a burka (or similar), that wouldn't let me drive a car, that wouldn't let me drink alcohol, that restricts females in job choices, that has to have permission from a male member of family to travel, that bans females from praying with males, etc. etc. So why do people come to the UK, knowing OUR customs, and then expect us to change them to suit THEIR way of life? I don't understand the logic.
Julie, Excellent post, I totally agree with what you are saying ;)
What next, will they stop little Johnny taking alcopops into school because it may offend those who follow teetotal religions.
It wil be a slippery slide before The Bible is banned !
If they kept religion out of schools then the problem would not arise in the first place!
I must admit that I have been reluctant to contribute to this discussion in case I get subjected to the usual barrage of abuse which Perseus calls debate. First of all o compare nut allergy to the provision of halhal meat is nonsense, one is a matter of life and death , the other requires a short walk home.
I would also like to point out that muslim children have been attending Lynnfield school for well over 30 years, so why has the subject of halhal meat suddenly surfaced? During those years many children will have gone home for a mid-day meal, for all sorts of reasons. The muslim parent interviewed has 3 older children, who attended Lynnfield and came home at lunchtime, so what has changed?
Personally I do not prescribe to the view of 'it doesn't bother the majority so we'll give the minority what they want' attitude, especially when the majority isn't consulted.
Schools provide seperate dietry requirements for lactose intollerant kids, vegetarians, vegans without forcing the majority to eat the same.
The British Army have muslim, jews and other religions within the rank and file. Do they provide all hallal or koshe ration packs? No they certainly do not. Each outfit knows how many soldiers there are which require special requirments for their food and theyensure they have the required number to provide them with it. Another example would be to tell a battallion of squadies that after a few weeks in the field the one thing they crave, a bacon sarnie, is off the books for fear of upsetting one soldier. That would go down like a lead ballon!
I think everyone is getting a bit carried away here.
To me it's simply a case of a school trying to accommodate the needs of a minority and then realising that, for economic reasons, it would be cheaper if they avoided trying to fund their meat requirements from two different sources. It was a mistake, but a genuine one and one which was corrected as soon as the penny of common sense dropped.
I do agree with Perseus though, I think The Mail has pushed this story as one that might create controversy and therefore help them sell a few more copies.
. . . perhaps one day KD, you'll be able to get passed the word 'muslim' in a sentence without going into convulsions.
Its only a matter of time before Bombmaking on part of the national curriculum.
I merely point out that it is far more likely that this situation arose from an understandable wish to meet the nutritional requirements of a particular group within the school - just like I'm sure they do for other groups. I doubt very much if the headmistress involves herself with the daily procurement of foodstuffs and that it is far more likely that the Head Cook or someone similar, faced with very tight budgets, thought it more economic to purchase all meat from the same source. As I said, if this is the case then it was a mistake but one which was put right in a very short time.
Your response?
You claim this head-teacher "made a mistake"? Why is it then that we read of endless other instances where teachers enforce the principle that the 'minority tail should wag the majority dog'?
I don't read of endless other instances where teachers enforce the principle that the 'minority tail should wag the majority dog'? It's a bigotted generalisation coming out of your head.
The cancerous dogma of PC / diversity education etc is endemic in our schools. The one way traffic is all geared up to teaching that British / Christian children must respect the history, culture, religions and customs of every race and religion - but not their own. The prevalent credo is that celebrating British culture and customs might give offence to others.
Again all baseless generalisations emanating from from your own head. You should pause for a moment and consider whether Jesus ever preached anything like the sort of prejudice you extol. There is absolutely nothing Christian about the xenophobic claptrap that escapes from your keyboard.
LUNACY, DANGEROUS LUNACY.
I know, and it's about time you stopped doing it.
She didn't make a mistake, Steve, she knew what she was doing. Thankfully the parents' showed their mettle this time and told her in no uncertain terms - "Hey teacher, leave those kids alone".
Really? Have you spoken to her? Do you actually know all of the ins and outs of the situation? Or are you simply filling in the gaps from your bottomless pit of pre-determined prejudiced assumptions and opinions?
http://www.loveforallhatredfornone.org/
If everyone was a veggie. this problem would not have arisen.
Although on planet Veggie, there is perhaps a right and wrong way to peel a carrot.
Perhaps I should know?
Because the practice is barbaric and inhumane. It causes severe distress and pain to the animals. I'd rather this method was not increased to cope with demands from schools when it is to satisfy a small number of pupils. As with vegans and veggies, by all means cater seperately but do not force this upon all.
http://www.thescienceforum.com/scientific-study-religion/16352-halal-killing-inhumane.html (http://www.thescienceforum.com/scientific-study-religion/16352-halal-killing-inhumane.html)
This is a non-story to me but having read your latest post Shane, perhaps you could explain the tory position on fox-hunting.
Perseus, I do wish that you would read my post with a bit more care . I think that your analogy about nut allergy and halal meat was a poor one. You obviously don't , so we disagree. The rest of my post was simply raising the question why, after many years that muslim children have attended Lynnfield school, has the subject of halal meat been raised ? Without a reason been given then speculation will happen.
To this list of "situations" must also be added the current situation regarding votes for prisoners.
I say why not give them the right to vote? Apart from the ones involved in terrorism who have tried to destroy our democracy.
But that should be for another thread.
According to you, Perseus, this was a pointless 'Halal Meat' story by the Mail so why are you making a meal out of it?
Quote from: testing times on October 28, 2012, 09: AM
This is a non-story to me but having read your latest post Shane, perhaps you could explain the tory position on fox-hunting.
Ahh so because I'm a Tory everything that I say must conform to current party policy?
As it happens I know members of my party on either side of the fox hunting fence, just as you will find non party members too.
Perseus, I'm sorry but stunning an animal before slitting it and having it bleed out is more humane than simply hanging it upside down, slitting it and having it bleed out fully concious. You are now arguing for arguements sake.
As I stated in my earlier post, the school should simply cater for those who require hallal meat seperately as they do for veggies and vegans. There should be no reason why the muslim children who attend this school should have to go home for lunch because the school does not cater seperately for them.
Incidentaly, I did wonder if the complaining parents ever order food from local take aways? The majority of which only serve hallal meat.
I didn't answer your question because I didn't actually see the post regarding the chip fat question.
Which cooking oils are we talking about and why are 40 of them not allowed to eat chips cooked in a particular type?
If the kitchen staff can spare the time to cater for other dietary requirements like vegans, then there is no reason why the school cannot provide the same attention to those children who require their chips cooked in a specific oil? Hardly fair is it?
I'd answer the question if you'd provide me with all of the facts.
Thanks for clearing that up.
In answer to your question then I would say that since the school may have always been serving chips fried in the now 'forbidden' oil and they know that the vast majority of children have no issue with said oil, it would be best for the school to cater for those 40 children who require a different oil seperately, as they would with veggies and vegans. They may even find that the oil is the same as that used by the veggies and vegans which would make life even easier for the kitchen staff.
In short, cater for the minority dietry requirement seperately.
You don't know if they don't have an issue with having their oil switched as they wouldn't have known. Just as those children who aren't allowed a specific oil would not know if their chips had been cooked in it.
The simple reality is that if this school has pupils who require hallal meat then those children should be afforded the same treatment as any other child with a special dietry requirement.
There should be no reason why these kids have to go home for lunch.
One one other note... By your reckoning Perseus it's be easier and cheaper to simply serve all children vegan food right?
Chips?....Fried chicken? School dinners in the limelight again...where's Jamie Oliver when you need him? ;)
Burger vans...what is the world coming to? :o When I think back to what my old school thought appropriate food for 600 girls between 11 and 18....shoe leather liver, rancid mince, greasy fritters, gristly stews and mash with black lumps etc.. Ah, the nostalgia (and the indigestion)...made me what I am today...erm... ::)
Don't forget the cake and strawberry custard! Mmmmm