It appears that an alternative organisation has triumphed over the Citizens Advice Bureau, having won the contract to provide advice services.
http://www.hartlepoolmail.co.uk/news/local/advice-lifeline-facing-the-axe-1-4453435
The manager of the lucky winner is called Val Evens - wonder if this is the same Val Evens who is on the board of the Who Cares (NE) community interest project? http://connectedcare.cc/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=14&Itemid=16
Public records show there are only three in the country with that name spelt the way it is.
Lincolnshire, Surrey, Hartlepool.
I don't use the C.A.B. but it seems a sad loss to the town if it goes.
How do you put a price on the know how they have!! how can anyone know if the reduced price West View guys are doing it for, is going to replace the service with a "like for like" service, that our community need in tough times.
The Mail states that the CAB has 12 paid staff with 28 volunteers, but the West View initiative will only have the equivalent of 3 full time people. Unless there are resources which haven't been mentioned, they would surely struggle to maintain the same level of service that the CAB has offered for so long.
wow...competetive tendering for publicly funded contracts....what a novel idea !
CAB walk the walk and talk the talk, an excellent staff that have helped lots of people in the town with debt problems seeing to their needs on a one to one basis.
A crying shame; Joe Mincha should have some Civic recognotion for what he's done maybe Freeman of Hartlepool?.
Labour Strikes again..Roll on May elections!
How long do we have to wait before the SCABs get around to 'tendering' for a contract from the Council?
The C.A.B. is a respected national organisation that ensures their workers are fully trained and have the support and use of a bank of legal experts at a national level.
I know who I would rather deal with,I hope they can stay open if not many people will travel out of town for that quality advice and representation.
I know Joe Michna very well and his personnel commitment to the CAB is 100%.
I'm amazed they have lost this contract.
This is bad news, you can barely get an appointment at the CAB office, how will west view cope ?
CAB; another devious aspect;
CAB deals with people from all walks of life and their issues. White collar, blue collar, West Park, Owton Manor doesn't matter who you are or where you come from...they are there for you and your problem.
Now it is going to a labour managed, labour voting area you can see who is going to feel the benefits of the organisation...labour voters.
I feel so sad for Joe and the lovely girls in CAB.
Please don't waste your vote in May......
we have got to get rid of the myopic, 'we'll look after you if you vote labour' infestation in the kremlin.
Vote for change!
Taken from the contract Scrutiny Committee minutes for the 27 02 12 (they can be found here; http://www.hartlepool.gov.uk/meetings/meeting/2385/contract_scrutiny_committee)
Councillor Paul Thompson (In the Chair);
Councillors Trisha Lawton, Carl Richardson, Linda Shields,
Lilian Sutheran and Ray Wells
105 The Provision of Universal Welfare Benefits and
Financial Advice (Ref 621) – (Procurement Manager)
This item contains exempt information under Schedule 12A Local
Government Act 1972 as amended by the Local Government (Access to
Information) (Variation) Order 2006 namely information relating to the
financial or business affairs of any particular person (including the
authority holding that information) – Para 3.
Two tenders had been received in respect of this contract, which were
opened in the presence of the Committee. Details are contained in the
exempt section of the minutes.
Decision
That the opening of the tenders be noted.
In my view Councillors should not be involved in the process of opening tenders. Drummond suggestion scrapping contract Scrutiny, adjusted by the Scrutiny Coordinating Comm, the Constitution Committee and Full Council to make it a function of the audit committee, knowledge really is power.
I think that we are now to see another Labour Empire in the North mirror imaging the one in the South of the town at Owton Manor.
West View will have a Labour controlled resident associations with a Labour Chairperson's jumping for joy over this.
Free money for West View residents; Come on down the Price is Right.
Sadly at C.A.Bs expense.
And of course it's now clear who was responsible for shutting the C.A.B.
I notice nothing on their election leaflets mentioning this.
It hasn't actually shut but it's future prospects will have certainly taken a hit because of this.
I think in the long run, when you take 200 grand plus out of any small business things will look bleak.
Yes they can struggle on with the other services until ther plug is pulled at some point but the writting is on the wall is my view.
Just waiting for the reaper to call.
Is anyone else wondering just how much difference in the 2 tenders there was, & could that difference justify the possible loss of jobs at CAB ?
Would it be a like for like service, at the moment there is an appointment system & a waiting list, will West View be able to match or better CAB`s performance in all aspects of "public advice & service" ?
Like for like service?
LMFAO.
It'll be a watered down version "staffed" by know-it-alls as opposed to experts and most of the "advice" given will be as to how lucky people are to have a Labour controlled council in power, how nasty those government types are and how the world would be a better place with a Labour controlled government.
Yes but of course Paul Thompson will vote for his friends at West View everytime, as they will be in a position to help Hartlepool Families First when their time comes round yet again.
They ought to change the name of the Civic chamber to Holme House!!
Also you know when everyone the other week kicked off about Manor Res employing their family and friends and not advertising the jobs, well how comes H.F.F. do the same thing and no one bats an eye lid about it.
Rest assured, all of these concerns are being highlighted, not just the Manor concerns for no other reason than it does bring the need to scrutinise why this is happening when it is frowned upon.
I suggest anyone with other concerns should bring them to the attention of the Charity Commission, Council and Police where appropriate. Noting them on here will also be a necessary monitoring tool as there is the case that the organisations may need to be investigated and the assessors may ignore or misread the issues.
How much did H.F.F. take from the council tax last year.
I have to be a little careful on my view of H.F.F. as I think it is an excellent service provided to those most in need of them services.
But all the same the same tactics of emplying wifes/ family/friends is applied as any of the other group in this town.
If you're going to call one for it, then atleast call them all for it.
Quote from: kipperdip on April 19, 2012, 03: PM
Interesting to note that our local newspaper's circulation is now down to 13k, even if it allowed PROPER political debate - which it does not - it still wouldn't reach nearly enough of our townsfolk to bring about real change.
This is a large part of the problem though, as the vast majority of the "I vote for x because my mam and dad do / did" brigade won't buy any kind of newspaper because they can't actually read. This is equally why sending leaflets through their letterbox will have a very limited effect, but I don't think I've seen / heard an election car with a speaker on the roof since I was a kid growing up on the Brooke estate in the late 70s / early 80s.
Kipperdip best post of the week in my view.
LOL about right too I think.
Quote from: LOL@U on April 19, 2012, 02: PM
Like for like service?
LMFAO.
It'll be a watered down version "staffed" by know-it-alls as opposed to experts and most of the "advice" given will be as to how lucky people are to have a Labour controlled council in power, how nasty those government types are and how the world would be a better place with a Labour controlled government.
I have to agree with your assessment, i don`t see how they can offer a Like for Like service & certainly not to the same proffesional standards CAB provide, my point though was to draw some attention to the "Tender Quotes" how much are HBC going to save by awarding the contract to West View ?
I believe people in Hartlepool are being deprived of a first class service by this ill thought out decision, a service that has a well established infrastructure that is know to everyone who may need the help CAB can provide.
Can I also have noted that the CAB is well placed in the middle of town so when buses run, there is a greater chance to go to the bureau and do shopping as well, getting more for your money.
What about those in the South of the Town?
With such a drop in income, there will hardly be anyone left in CAB so it will be a like for like service then in terms of limited amounts of staff to advise!
I am going to ask West View Advice Centre about this as I think we need to consider their training and advice benchmarks.
We might just find that the service was the same upon application though with 73 years experience, I cannot see how CAB didn't tick all of the boxes?
Quote from: kipperdip on April 19, 2012, 03: PM
On this and most other threads there is plentiful evidence of the degree of contempt and mistrust of the Labour Mafia in Hartlepool.
Sad thing is so few people read this site and the vast majority of our fellow citizens are so dreadfully politically unaware
If only we had a local newspaper ..... aren't they supposed to employ those journalist thingy's to look into thigs and keep their readers informed ::)
Quote from: christine blakey on April 19, 2012, 06: PM
Can I also have noted that the CAB is well placed in the middle of town so when buses run, there is a greater chance to go to the bureau and do shopping as well, getting more for your money.
What about those in the South of the Town?
With such a drop in income, there will hardly be anyone left in CAB so it will be a like for like service then in terms of limited amounts of staff to advise!
I am going to ask West View Advice Centre about this as I think we need to consider their training and advice benchmarks.
We might just find that the service was the same upon application though with 73 years experience, I cannot see how CAB didn't tick all of the boxes?
Hi Christine, I think you will find that West View Advice and Resource Centre have all the credentials needed and their staff are second to none.
Quote from: Straight Talking on April 20, 2012, 11: PM
Hi Christine, I think you will find that West View Advice and Resource Centre have all the credentials needed and their staff are second to none.
And, it seems, have powerful political friends..........
I don't understand what you mean, please explain.
Quote from: Straight Talking on April 21, 2012, 12: AM
I don't understand what you mean, please explain.
I had you down as slow rather than stupid.
Seems I will have to revisit that decision..........
That's not going to work, insulting me for asking you to explain.
Is it too hard for you, or don't you know the answer?
Excuse Mk1, he hasn't had many friends online to complete dungeons with. He gets very short tempered when he hasn't been grinding.
Quote from: mk1.1 on April 21, 2012, 12: AM
His traditional responses on this forum seem to all be just about trying to ridicule others. He knows very little, has few facts at his disposal, less friends and is pretty much the pet site troll, they wheel him out when someone dares challenge the all knowing UKIP, Hartlepool First or seriously desperate to be elected to power to fill the huge void in their lives bunch.
Wow, now they replicating!
Shadow what are you talking grinding and dungeons.
Quote from: notinshadow on April 21, 2012, 12: AM
Shadow what are you talking grinding and dungeons.
I believe it is a reference to a modern form of the game 'Battleships'.
The hook has been baited many times but so far Ray Wells Shadow has not had a bite.
Sorry guys for being thick about such things..
Thanks MK1 for letting me know.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keaJm5rdAbg&feature=related
He's a big fan of the game.
Quote from: notinshadow on April 21, 2012, 12: AM
Sorry guys for being thick about such things..
Thanks MK1 for letting me know.
Myself I prefer the old Airfix stuff.
This for instance, bought for 2 shillings in the 60's (10p today) but now sell for 20-40 quid each on Ebay
(http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/233/airfixsoftplasticfigs10.jpg) (http://img718.imageshack.us/i/airfixsoftplasticfigs10.jpg/)
(http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/4975/airfixsprued37.jpg) (http://img24.imageshack.us/i/airfixsprued37.jpg/)
(http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/884/airfixsprued77.jpg) (http://img843.imageshack.us/i/airfixsprued77.jpg/)
These are less but still 10+ quidish a pop...
(http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/8548/tankkits11.jpg) (http://img515.imageshack.us/i/tankkits11.jpg/)
(http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/8548/tankkits11.jpg) (http://img21.imageshack.us/i/tankkits11.jpg/)
Dear, oh dear...boys and their toys... ::)
Girls like "toys" too I am told.. :-[
Ann Summers parties are all the rage!! ::)
The News about the CAB is a sad indication of the way the town is run and where its heading, Dumpsville pedal to the metal.
All because a tiny group of individuals, you know them, people in public office taking public monies and putting it into their private pockets and those of their friends and relations have an agenda.
The agenda has one topic, them
It is corruption, there is no other name for it.
Years ago as a poor student the CAB helped me out, now its finances are threatened because of the corruption of these types of people directing the money to something infinitely inferior, but knowing it will pay them well.
Its depressing because you can see where this will go:-
Those in need will get 2nd class advice in a time when the screws are being turned hardest on those in the worst positions.
Mistreatment of those most vulnerable will increase along with injustice as the tools to fight them are of a low quality and as a result poverty, and its companion, crime, will increase as these people become desperate.
Those in need who were previously honest will turn to crime and because they have no choice.
They will be driven to it rather than taking it as as a life style choice and will not in most cases be very good at it and they will get caught.
The jails will fill with the 'wronged poor' and the real career criminals will have a free reign as the Police, who have their budgets cut and are consequently less effective and will go for the easy target every time and all our lives are degraded and impoverished as a result.
Simplistic I know, but as I said CAB helped me when I was poor and desperate and was considering doing something very foolish just to put food on the table!
Quote from: Lord Elpus on April 19, 2012, 06: AM
Taken from the contract Scrutiny Committee minutes for the 27 02 12 (they can be found here; http://www.hartlepool.gov.uk/meetings/meeting/2385/contract_scrutiny_committee)
Councillor Paul Thompson (In the Chair);
Councillors Trisha Lawton, Carl Richardson, Linda Shields,
Lilian Sutheran and Ray Wells
I have taken the time to have a close look at this issue. Unlike most of those who have commented on it. Seemingly the Councillors who are present when contracts are opened are there purely to ensure probity - they do not pass any opinion as they are not asked for an opinion. The name of the tenderer and the value of the quote is provided. Other than that the whole process is dealt with by Officers. So the only outcome at this stage is to "note the report".
Once the tender has been checked and verified by officers a report goes to whoever is the cabinet member with responsibility to agree the letting of the contract to whoever has provided best quality/best cost and they either agree or not.
I find the original posting both misleading and mischievious, as Geoff knows full well what the process is.
I was making myself busy about that today and was told that the council/mayor had said to the C.A.B. that there was 160k in the pot towards that type service and then the C.A.B. still went in with a price of 220k or whatever it was, so West View mob walked away with it on price alone.
Still begs the question.. is it a like for like service tendered on..
Personally I doubt it.
Well my understanding is that the service whilst it may be different should be the same quality, but will be delivered on the estates not just in West View.
Joe has over the years point blank refused to offer the service other than in the town centre. This means the majority of clients have to travel in.
He did concede to provide outreach a couple of years ago, and now provides a service at the Carers premises once a week for an hour or so but this again is only a few hundred yards away from CAB's premises.
I never need the C.A.B. services so therefore don't use the service...but if for any reason something happened where I did have to use that service, I would have no confidence whatsoever in the West View mob.
If you have never used the services of CAB how do you know that West View cant provide a quality service and why do you refer to them as "a mob"
Mob as I can't remember the full title and I quite like to call them a mob..
About the service though..I think the C.A.B. have seen it all before, from all walks of life, where the West View mob are estate people, from and for..and simply they would not fill me with confidence going to see them about issues.
What they going to do give me a leaflet?
I find that a strange answer, as it indicates that by just being based in the town centre somehow makes CAB the better more trustworthy organisation.
I am sure that those who have used West Views services have been supported and dealt with both professionally and confidentially.
I never said anything about the town center..
I said they were estate people for and from or words to that effect.
C.A.B. the brand gives me faith, West View mob as a brand don't.
If I break my arm I go to the hospital.. if I need a dentist I do to a qualified one not the local butcher.
C.A.B. tried and tested for 70 plus years..
I think you might find that the West View Advice and Resource Centre has in fact been delivering services in Hartlepool as long as the CAB and possibly longer.
I seem to think they also have the Legal Services Commission Kite mark and all the credentials that CAB has.
Estate people, also work for the CAB - so maybe you should rethink the labels you give people.
Ok they might be good at what they do..I don't have faith in the West View mob, I have faith in the C.A.B. though, complete faith.
I think your comparing Mcdonalds with the little burger van outside the car lot at the bottom of Church Street.
So you have complete faith in a service by your own admission you have never used.
You also condemn a service you have never used.
Seems a bit shortsighted to me.
Yes they are a brand name...
I could go to Leeds, London somewhere in Scotland or any other main town in the UK and surprise surprise they are there.
That's how I see it, it gives me confidence when I would be at my lowest, the West View mob wouldn't that..
Sorry and all that but that's that!!
Think about this..if I was losing a business, going bankrupt, losing my mrs, family breaking up, bills pilling up, debt collectors at the door, would I want Chip Fireball giving me advice..or one of the others down there, personally not a chance..but if I went to the C.A.B. I would have faith they would help.
Whilst I appreciate that CAB is a national brand, they are not all the same.
They all deliver similar services but in their own way.
Some do outreach and some like the Hartlepool CAB don't
So the "Estate People" who need help either have to come to CAB or go to their friendly estate based service where they get the same answer and as good if not better support and guess what they don't have to pay the bus fare.
. . . if they can find a bus.
I think the answer here is where did West View go for their training? By all accounts it was the CAB so even West View recognise CAB as the experts. I've heard West View is a well run centre and does a good job but I'm afraid they're fooling themselves if they believe they can provide an equivalent service to the CAB. I would think that they are quite good on benefit queries and the like but CAB has a much wider remit than that and it's nonsense to say West View has been providing services as long as CAB.
To an extent I agree with some of your post.
the contract won by West View is for Welfare Rights or in ordinary language benefits advice and debt.
The other stuff that CAB does is funded nationally and is not part of the council contract.
I think they will be experts at debt and benefits and have many years of claiming them and having them.. ;)
Did Virgin or Serco not bid for the contract this time then ?
Quote from: LookslikeTORYagain on April 22, 2012, 01: AM
I think they will be experts at debt and benefits and have many years of claiming them and having them.. ;)
Why do you persist in insulting people that you clearly do not know.
Ash Johnson works at West View, he is a longstanding mate of Geoff Lilley.
Quote from: Straight Talking on April 26, 2012, 08: PM
Quote from: LookslikeTORYagain on April 22, 2012, 01: AM
I think they will be experts at debt and benefits and have many years of claiming them and having them.. ;)
Why do you persist in insulting people that you clearly do not know.
Ash Johnson works at West View, he is a longstanding mate of Geoff Lilley.
I hardly think that's the best example you could have used
Just out of interest.. did everyone think I was insulting the West View mob? or did the smiley with a wink let people know I wasn't being to serious in that reply?
Admin I can see you have edited my post but not sure why?
Did I do something wrong?
The use of emboldened text can be useful for highlighting a particular point or word but when the whole post is emboldened, it suggests that the poster believes his post is more important than those of others; which it isn't.
Was that it..bit like writting in green.
No, not really.
Everyone doing the Admin writes in green to differentiate Admin posts from standard posts
I have always highlighted my posts, when quoting someone else post, so people don't get mixed up with who is saying what..seemed logical to me.
I will try not to do it in future, to save others wondering why it is that admin feel the need to go in and change somebodies post. :o