Questions at Council Democracy Shutdown

[fred c]

Seaton Carew News

I wish ..because like many I don't do facial book so can't follow these sites they would get a blogger blog or something similar- it is free and they could feed their Facebook food to the blog allowing everyone to read it....but hey ho you can't have everything.

You have lost me with blog..... blogger.... vlogger  ......

The point made by SteveL re. Councillors facing away from the public, it was mentioned at the time, not only is it intensely ignorant, but it degrades the ability of the public to gauge how councillors are reacting by their facial expressions ........ no one anywhere speaks to people with their backs turned to the person they are talking to.

I can see why they did it, the LabMob are almost to 'person' incapable of engaging in a debate, presenting a motion or in the case of Lying Ste and Craney even reading a Script prepared for him by a PR person, without making a complete hash of it.

The other reason of course is well documented...... the LabMob have a distinct tendency to talk about each other in less than flattering terms..... in Del Boy terms.... ducking and diving..... bobbing and weaving 


A motion needs to be put to council by the Indies and Kippers requesting a return to the previous seating arrangements.........

[Inspector Knacker]

Maybe the barriers are really there to protect the public from the councillors?

[akarjl]

A motion needs to be put to council by the Indies and Kippers requesting a return to the previous seating arrangements.........

Well as they are now "open to questions" that sounds like a plan

[steveL]

PRESS RELEASE

Council steps up public involvement

Civic 5 - webPublished Wednesday, 24th May 2017

HARTLEPOOL Council re-affirmed its commitment to involving the public in local decision making at a meeting of the Full Council last night (Tuesday 23 May).

Councillors debated the various opportunities that the public can participate in to influence the democratic process following a review undertaken by the Council's Constitution Working Group.

Councillors voted in favour of Full Council meetings continuing on evenings and agreed that members of the public can continue to submit two questions at each Full Council meeting.

Members of the public will also be able to continue to quiz policy committee chairs at meetings.

Neighbourhood Forums are to be renamed Community Forums which will provide a focal point for local consultation on the provision of Council services and neighbourhood issues.

In between the two forums – known as North & Coastal and South & Central – the public will be given a further opportunity to quiz the Council's five policy committee chairs.

Councillor Christopher Akers-Belcher, the Leader of Hartlepool Council who proposed the package of public participation measures at the meeting, said: "Open, transparent local government is at the forefront of everything that we do and the public have a huge part to play in shaping Council services and the town in general.

"The Council committee system of governance lends itself to greater participation of the public in our decision making and is a strength in promoting public engagement."

Councillor Alan Clark, chair of the Council's Children's Services Committee, who seconded the package of measures, said: "On the point of democracy I am firmly of the view that the current committee system is far more democratic that the previous Elected mayor and Cabinet system."

"There are countless opportunities for the public to get involved and have their say and that is something which we want to continue to embrace."

"On the timings of Full Council meetings, I support meetings remaining at 7pm but acknowledge that there is no perfect time for any meetings as some will feel excluded during the day and others on evenings."

Press release PR16109 – 24 May 2017.
Issued by Alastair Rae, Public Relations Manager, on 01429 523510.

[grim reaper]

Despite the epithets used to describe the Tor/Lab shower over the years, last night was a great indication of another to be used...hypocrites.
The complaisance of Cook towards the "audience" was in stark contrast to his previous 'I run this show and we'll do it MY way' demeanor.

Where was the rebuke to the "audience" for clapping at various times during proceedings....we should be seen and not heard.
He barely suppressed a snigger regarding Geoff's joke at Cranney being (of all things) our cultural attache!!!       Only in 'artlepool

Even MD was mute at the accusation of a 'u turn'. 

However, it will be business (and threatening nastiness) as usual, once the election is out of the way.
The sad thing is, they think we can't see through the charade. 

Well done to Cllrs Thompson & Riddle for facing up to the bullies in that chamber.
The supine Tor/Lab mob days are coming to an end. 

[steveL]

Spot on there I reckon.

Interesting to note Wells' absence. If I've got it right, the Constitution Working Group is an off-sheet of Audit and Governance which Wells chairs so it's a reasonable assumption that he also chairs the working group. So there's an awkward situation. It was Wells' working group that produced the recommendations that everyone objected to and the Tory Election candidate is on Twitter announcing that RMW will be voting against the proposals(his own Proposals).

How does Wells get out of this one? He doesn't turn up.

The Press Release of last night's meeting is also out in double quick time full of ow Labour are committed to openness and transparency while there's no mention of Thompson's amendment to have a full debate on reinstating supplementary questions, moving some committee meetings to a evening and allocating a 15 minute 'Ask the Leader' session during every meeting of the full council.

A clear-cut breach of Purdah BTW, 2 weeks before the election with Labour using council officers to spin their message..

[jeffh]

Councillors voted in favour of Full Council meetings continuing on evenings and agreed that members of the public can continue to submit two questions at each Full Council meeting.


Unless I missed something last night, I don't think there were votes on the two contentious items - public questions & meeting times.   The Town Solicitor simply went straight past them without asking for a vote as it was felt they were the misreported outcome of a working group.

I think it would have been better if a vote had been taken as that would have been recorded in the minutes and as such could be used against the ruling group when they try again later this year.

Does anyone know where this now stands - have they got the best of both worlds by not having to vote at council but with HBC spinning it as they have?  Does Mr Rae need to issue a retraction - or did I miss something?

[DRiddle]

'Let me control the media and I will turn any nation into a herd of pigs'.

That might have worked in 1939, but it's much harder with more people getting their news from social media rather than local papers.

Labour lost control of all media bar The Mail a long time ago. They have absolutely no clue how to get their message out via social media.

[jeffh]

Spot on there I reckon.

Interesting to note Wells' absence. If I've got it right, the Constitution Working Group is an off-sheet of Audit and Governance which Wells chairs so it's a reasonable assumption that he also chairs the working group. So there's an awkward situation. It was Wells' working group that produced the recommendations that everyone objected to and the Tory Election candidate is on Twitter announcing that RMW will be voting against the proposals(his own Proposals).

My understanding from the agenda is that the Constitution Working Group has been upgraded to Constitution Committee with probably CAB as its chair - the Leader of the council (known as the Leader) has an automatic place.  Where is gets a bit tricky is, according to Devlin, working groups can only propose changes (hence the get out of jail free card for the LabCons) so they couldn't vote on policy hence the no vote on items 4 & 5 in the list of recommendations.  However a committee is a different matter - hence my query around last night's no vote

[Lord Elpus]

'Let me control the media and I will turn any nation into a herd of pigs'.

That might have worked in 1939, but it's much harder with more people getting their news from social media rather than local papers.

Labour lost control of all media bar The Mail a long time ago. They have absolutely no clue how to get their message out via social media.

Carlos gets his sister to fight the local party's corner on FB, why on earth he does not 'man up' and do it himself is beyond me.

[fred c]

PRESS RELEASE

Council steps up public involvement

Civic 5 - webPublished Wednesday, 24th May 2017

HARTLEPOOL Council re-affirmed its commitment to involving the public in local decision making at a meeting of the Full Council last night (Tuesday 23 May).

Councillors debated the various opportunities that the public can participate in to influence the democratic process following a review undertaken by the Council's Constitution Working Group.

Councillors voted in favour of Full Council meetings continuing on evenings and agreed that members of the public can continue to submit two questions at each Full Council meeting.

Members of the public will also be able to continue to quiz policy committee chairs at meetings.

Neighbourhood Forums are to be renamed Community Forums which will provide a focal point for local consultation on the provision of Council services and neighbourhood issues.

In between the two forums – known as North & Coastal and South & Central – the public will be given a further opportunity to quiz the Council's five policy committee chairs.

Councillor Christopher Akers-Belcher, the Leader of Hartlepool Council who proposed the package of public participation measures at the meeting, said: "Open, transparent local government is at the forefront of everything that we do and the public have a huge part to play in shaping Council services and the town in general.

"The Council committee system of governance lends itself to greater participation of the public in our decision making and is a strength in promoting public engagement."

Councillor Alan Clark, chair of the Council's Children's Services Committee, who seconded the package of measures, said: "On the point of democracy I am firmly of the view that the current committee system is far more democratic that the previous Elected mayor and Cabinet system."

"There are countless opportunities for the public to get involved and have their say and that is something which we want to continue to embrace."

"On the timings of Full Council meetings, I support meetings remaining at 7pm but acknowledge that there is no perfect time for any meetings as some will feel excluded during the day and others on evenings."

Press release PR16109 – 24 May 2017.
Issued by Alastair Rae, Public Relations Manager, on 01429 523510.

"Councillor Alan Clark, chair of the Council's Children's Services Committee, who seconded the package of measures, said: "On the point of democracy I am firmly of the view that the current committee system is far more democratic that the previous Elected mayor and Cabinet system."
[/
The only description for Clarke based on his quote above is as a 2 faced hypocrite...... if that is what he really thinks, Why didn't he fight CAB for a Referendum for the residents of Hartlepool on the Tees Valley Amalgamation.

No Mayor and cabinet for Hartlepool............. But a Mayor and cabinet vote that has dragged Hartlepool into Smogsville...

[Inspector Knacker]

  Because they're party members and loyalty to the party is the be all and end all. Logic flies out of the window and common sense discarded to keep the party line.
You end up governed by a circus of posturing clowns and their minions, who in any other walk of life would be seen as a bad joke a tragic Gilbert and Sullivan style comic opera, an out of tune chorus of the talentless. Windbags.

[for fawkes sake]

For all his flaws, during his ten year tenure as Mayor, Stuart Drummond never once made any move to restrict the public from asking him questions. In fact, he used to hold State of the Borough events which lasted a couple of hours during which he took live questions from the public. In some ways this was a brave thing to do but he did it just the same.

[jeffh]

Following on from this press release I have sent this email to Alistair Rae -

Good Afternoon Alastair,

Following on from your recent press release regarding the issue of Public Questions and timing of meetings, both discussed at the Council Meeting held on May 23rd 2017, as far as I am aware no voting took place on either of these items.

They were discussed but when it came to voting Peter Devlin simply bypassed them and didn't ask for a vote, therefore your statement to the press was factually incorrect and gave the impression that the ruling council voted in favour of public questions and the timing of meetings, which they didn't.  However, if I am incorrect, I am sure the minutes and video will reflect this and you will be able to provide a vote count.

Also, on the same subject, as you only quoted Labour Councillors, a lot more Independent / UKIP spoke on the topic,  your release was biased towards the ruling group and as such I suspect is in breach of Purdah.  I am sure Peter Devlin will be able to give clarification on this.

[akarjl]

Get the boot in every opportunity.Just when the they thought they had brushed it under the carpet ( well there's plenty of spare sections piled up somewhere in the kremlin) .....don't you just love social media, video email etc.......cwissie must be seething.

Perhaps our illustrious cultural representative could write the next press release, by smearing excrement on the walls of his holding pen?