To vote or not to vote.

[Jamescampbell78]

Admins/Mods - Am posting this here because it's political, if it's on the wrong board please feel free to move it to the right place.  I feel it's relevant here given that we have elections coming up.

This one is inspired by a conversation I had the other day.  I was talking to a Newcastle United fan and he was generally bemoaning the fact that money had ruined football.  In general terms he thought it was obscene that the likes of Wayne Rooney was getting paid £300,000 a week and that Mike Ashley was using Newcastle United to make money for himself and had no interest in the footballing success of the club beyond that.

I asked what he was doing about it, he didn't have a clue what I was on about.  So I asked if he held a season ticket at Newcastle or a Sky Sports subscription to watch football.  Yes to both.

So I said OK, cancel both, don't go to another game, buy another shirt or any other merchandise until things change.  Encourage others to do the same.  The response: 

"Ye cannot dee that, ye've gotta support ya team man."

I asked if he'd protested in any way, he said they often chanted anti Ashley slogans at games and once turned their back on the field before a game....so he pays the man he hates his hard cash to shout abuse at him.

So I explained that he was as responsible for the ruin of the game as Rooney, Ashley and all of the others fleecing it.  He looked utterly scoobied.

So in really simple terms I went on.  What do you think would happen if everyone just refused to renew their tickets and cancelled their Sky Sports?

Blank look.....

OK this is what would happen, cash flowing into the club would stop from ticket and merchandise sale.  Advertisers and other sponsors would stop pumping money into a club where attendances disappeared because there would be no audience to see the ads.

If everyone did this across all football clubs then the profit in it would disappear for these deep pocketed money men.

Same with Sky, if everyone stopped their subscriptions they'd begin to get the message, stop showing football and more importantly stop pumping their money into the game.

Once the cash into the game dried up the obscene amounts of money being paid to players would stop, then as a result the game would be played only by those who genuinely enjoyed the game, had a passion for it and as a result would probably be better at it.  It would probably be more watchable without huge sums of money at stake and therefore better for fans.  In short ultimate the power is with the punter, as long as they act together.

This is much the same as my view on voting.....

Replace players with MP's, paid obscene amounts of money for doing very little and to be honest, most probably couldn't give a crap about what they do as long as the money keeps flowing.

Replace teams with political parties with supporters who will blindly follow their team regardless of how badly they let them down over and over again.

Replace owners and sponsors with party donors and lobbyists who on the face of it are also supporters pumping money into their party for the love of it, but in reality they expect that money to be repaid several times over, it's an investment.  You put money in so that MP's change laws to make you profits or vote on things in a way that protects your interests.

The currency paid by the supporters?  Your vote!  None of this can work without the votes.

Voting validates the whole thing, they use the vote to say everything they're doing they do it in your name.  So like football what we need to do as a nation, if we want to fix our political system and get back people who will only represent us because they believe it to be the right thing to do and to protect the interests of the people they represent, is very, very simple.

STOP VOTING! Do it now, encourage others to do the same.....It will only work if everyone joins in!

[mk1]

This is a cut and paste lifted complete  from Blackwood's Blog.

Is it not the custom to link such items?

[Jamescampbell78]

I cut and pasted from my original word document rather than include images etc

Wasn't sure if linking to Harry's blog was frowned upon in here since he's banned.....How to post this was what I was asking how to contact the mods for.

[Inspector Knacker]

Don't vote and nothing will happen at all... nothing will change because there'll always be a knot of polical fundamentalists who 'll welcome it with open arms.... and the non voters  will be dismissed as politically inert.........

[Jamescampbell78]

 

What's voting changed in Hartlepool recently?

[Pwilson]

Not voting will never be adopted wholesale, just as compulsory voting will lead to widespread manipulation of the terminally stupid.

Adding a 'none of the above' & a 'I don't understand all of this so just put mine on the pile with the one who looks most needy' option would be best.

[Inspector Knacker]

Not voting has been the problem..... the same minority of non thinkers voting f:or the same clowns.... while the majority moan but  do nothing about it.. The non voters have always been with us..they're the problem.
For someone who appears to take a unhealthy interest in the business .....you advocate its oblivion.... but only selective parts of it
Odd.;

[7g2b]

"and get back people who will only represent us because they believe it to be the right thing to do and to protect the interests of the people they represent, is very, very simple."
Who decides who these people are? And how do we choose between them?
Voting perhaps?

[dowager]

NOT voting ISN'T the problem.

For 90+ years, since the 1st World War and the sufragette movement we have all been made to feel guilty about 'not voting'

Our parents, our grandparents and now us. "Your grandad died fighting for freedom and against fascists", your Grandma fought for the vote. YOU SHOULD VOTE, YOU HAVE TO VOTE

Well the only problem with that is that people HAVE been voting (less and less and less) for all those years and, apart from the illusion of our standard of living) politicians, top civil servants and the richest 5% of society have been filling their boots and have become richer and richer and richer... and worse than that, they laugh at the rest of us, through the protection they receive from the upper echilon of the police force (remember, it's not a service, it's a force) and their friends in the judiciary

For the common man, despite the heroic fights of trade unions, life has become hardly a jot different and the salary / wealth differential has become much. much wider and with the current coalition and the previous Labour governments, this is only being strengthened. Red / Blue or Yellow, all political colours are the same.

Remember when there was a clerk at the top of the town hall tree who earned about 20% more than the rest of the staff? Now we have CEO's and Chief Execs who, on average, earn 500-700% more than 'the common man'

THEY ARE all in it together, but they're telling us that WE are all in it together

So, basically, voting has changed nothing for the common man, and more and more people are realising that. If voting changed anything, they would ban it. They allow voting, because it gives the illusion of democracy and freedom of speech.

Well, I for one, and many more of us in Hartlepool and across the UK will NOT be voting for the status quo, 'their' time is up, and it may end ugly, but change is coming, just not the way most of you are expecting it.

[marky]

Well you got that one right Dowager in that they're ALL at it:

http://order-order.com/2011/08/10/dave-prentis-is-a-tax-hypocrite/

[7g2b]

Still waiting to hear how this new order of leaders is going to be chosen, and how they intend to carry us all to the sunlit uplands of paradise.
What happens after everyone has refused to vote?
Will the new leaders never be changed?
Will some people be more equal than others?
Will we all work for the greater good of the "farm"?
The people on this forum who shout loudest about their questions not being answered need to start answering a few themselves.

[Jamescampbell78]

It doesn't matter how you choose whatever the new order of leadership to be until the current corrupt system is broken.

Voting at the minute is like wanting to travel to Edinburgh but only having the option of a train ticket to London Kings Cross for £300 or train ticket to London St Pancreas for £310. Both destinations are less than 200 metres apart and totally in the opposite way in which you need to go.

Another question someone floated a couple of weeks ago when discussing this was "Why do people feel the need to be ruled/governed?" I'm not 100% in agreement with not having any government but it's a valid question.

As for the war generation guilt trip, over the last 10 years, the few remaining people of that generation I've spoken to have consistently told me that if there was a box for "None of the above" they'd tick it. THAT ALONE tells you everything about that myth.

So what non voting does is exactly that, it says none of the above.

At the minute low turnouts go unreported. But what if all the non voters, on polling day decided to actively state their non-adherence to the corrupt system of voting? I bet they'd outnumber the voters and guess what? That means that the lie of having a majority mandate to rule would be exposed.

Just some food for thought.

[Inspector Knacker]

NOT voting ISN'T the problem.

For 90+ years, since the 1st World War and the sufragette movement we have all been made to feel guilty about 'not voting'

Our parents, our grandparents and now us. "Your grandad died fighting for freedom and against fascists", your Grandma fought for the vote. YOU SHOULD VOTE, YOU HAVE TO VOTE

Well the only problem with that is that people HAVE been voting (less and less and less) for all those years and, apart from the illusion of our standard of living) politicians, top civil servants and the richest 5% of society have been filling their boots and have become richer and richer and richer... and worse than that, they laugh at the rest of us, through the protection they receive from the upper echilon of the police force (remember, it's not a service, it's a force) and their friends in the judiciary

For the common man, despite the heroic fights of trade unions, life has become hardly a jot different and the salary / wealth differential has become much. much wider and with the current coalition and the previous Labour governments, this is only being strengthened. Red / Blue or Yellow, all political colours are the same.

Remember when there was a clerk at the top of the town hall tree who earned about 20% more than the rest of the staff? Now we have CEO's and Chief Execs who, on average, earn 500-700% more than 'the common man'

THEY ARE all in it together, but they're telling us that WE are all in it together

So, basically, voting has changed nothing for the common man, and more and more people are realising that. If voting changed anything, they would ban it. They allow voting, because it gives the illusion of democracy and freedom of speech.

Well, I for one, and many more of us in Hartlepool and across the UK will NOT be voting for the status quo, 'their' time is up, and it may end ugly, but change is coming, just not the way most of you are expecting it.

So to sum up.....you are gonna change the world by doing.....er, nothing...hmmmm.... and by not voting  you will only consolidate the status quo.

[Jamescampbell78]

Riddler,

Incorrect. You confuse not voting with apathy.

Not voting and staying silent does nothing.

I don't intend to be silent, I will seek out practical ways of undermining those in power who abuse it. I will present constant challenge to those elected officials to ensure the things they do are questioned. If they are able to successfully justify themselves then they should not fear the challenge.

The same applies to those who announce an intention to stand for election. I'll confidently state here and now if I'm satisfied with the honesty, integrity and competence of a candidate to effect positive change either in local elections or a full scale general election I will be one of the first at the polling booths. Until then, the search goes on.

[mk1]

I don't intend to be silent, I will seek out practical ways of undermining those in power who abuse it. I will present constant challenge to those elected officials to ensure the things they do are questioned. If they are able to successfully justify themselves then they should not fear the challenge.

Running around like a headless chicken picking a fight with anyone silly enough to engage with you 'aint going to get you power.
You might as well join the 'establishment'  because your way hands everything to them on a plate. This  mindless 'search for the truth' is just dog-whistle politics and  banal in the extreme.
There are always going to be those out to wreck the system. Always have been and always will be but  you are never going to  bring down the sytem. By all means dream about it but you (as a group) are tolerated because you are no real threat to anyone.
I think the benefits of 'democracy' are much overated. Most people could not care less who  ends up in power as long as they are not extreme. Far left or right will never win through a ballot. Neither will those who want to pull everything down.  The mere fact you are such a small group means you have to go for armageddon because no sane person would vote you in.