UKIP

[beanzontoast]

Its just like a magic trick the only reason it works is because you cant see how its done,so what you see is Labour winning Hartlepool and they did but two other partys knew who would win, and who would lose out, and one was willing to loose a pawn (Hartlepool ) to gain a knight. and the other to see if the voters vote the way they have always done and they did. To see you need to look at the whole 180 councils who had elections that night, if you just look at Hartlepool you will miss the trick, some people look at a bigger picture. 

[notinshadow]

Thank you, that better helps me understand how much more UKIP has to do to win anything anytime soon.

[beanzontoast]

Hi Perseus, I never thought for a moment, you wanted to cause an argument and it was indeed a very good night, and thankful you looked outside of hartlepool, I stayed up all night to see it unfold i even took a days holiday today and it was all there on telly, one more question Perseus then all will be revealed. Which political party is the only one worth anything.

[Inspector Knacker]

How many bad apples would you like me to point out before it dawns on you its intrinsic to your ideology?

Ideology ....? You haven't the faintest idea what my ideology is. As for pointing out 'bad apples' .... life really is too short to embark on that particular voyage of discovery. Bon voyage.

[Inspector Knacker]

I clearly meant the parties ideology, UKIPs. Which is right wing populist.

It may have been clear to you. However, my ideology is based strictly on the principle that local government is no place for party politics and should be based on independent voting where all those elected have equal status and not the present 'Stepford Wives ' system of the parties. I despise them all.

[notinshadow]

LLTA

Can I suggest that you don't appear so aggressive in your demands.

I ask a what seems a straight forward question and don't get a straight forward answer what's aggressive about that?

  Politics is the art of the possible - it's not a science.

Maybe but I am not a politician I am a question asker..

  Demanding to know "what went wrong for UKIP last night" for example  is so simplistic as to be totally meaningless.

It wasn't a demand it was a straight forward question.

All UKIP could have done to win they did with the resources (manpower and finance) they had available.  All anyone, or any party can do is their best.
Best..I don't believe that for one minute.

In fact, I'll send SteveL a copy of the precis of UKIP's results across the country to post up on here.  Perhaps you might then conclude that it 'didn't go wrong'? 

I am not asking where it went wrong throughout the UK, I am asking where it went wrong in Hartlepool.

In Hartlepool you have a situation where 70% of the electorate state with ignorant pride that they don't vote, this is then followed by the mantra - "you're all the same", "you're all out for yourselves" etc.
I'm sure you've become as bored with hearing these excuses for doing nothing as I have, but this is where we are.

What % of the 30% voted for UKIP..forget the 70% for now, as they didn't vote for UKIP or anyone else.


These are the facts of the case M'Lud and are indisputable.

Yes but what is the charge..

When you are trying to make people aware that there are alternatives but they categorically refuse to open their minds then there is the problem.

Then prehaps you need to join another group Dave and put your political skills and knowhow to better use. PHF might be a good place for you.

All anyone can do is keep trying.

Yes but the dead horse your flogging isn't going to win the Derby is it so join a new stable, I can see why S.A. left Hartlepool UKIP as he wants to be on a winning team..

Personally, I'll debate anything with anybody.  But, I have precious little time for anyone who just snipes from the sidelines at other's efforts, does absolutely sweet FA themselves,  but still feel as if they are somehow superior and can issue demands wrapped in sarcasm of those making an effort.

See the title of the thread, it was Ryehill not kipperdip, so prehaps it was aimed at him for good reason, so stop jumping out your pram just because your both UKIP

If you've got the solution put yourself up for election, then, when you don't get elected we can all ask you: "Where did it all go wrong"?

Actually this is the question on my mind..can I get with my anti social nature 900 votes, which is enough to beat Cath Hill next time round.

But even if I did this is the problem..what use would one Indy be to change things in this town for the better...N.F.U. what so ever sadly so why waste my time and have the drama in my life.

Now of course you with UKIP behind you got nowhere, your mates at UKIP got nowhere and even the one I thought had more than a good chance got nowhere so what does that tell you, the people in this town ain't having none of UKIP.

Tories got the Park but nothing else, so that speaks volumes.
Libs got jogged on.
PHF got one new kid on the block and added the three they already had..
Which brings us to Labour, which actually grew in % terms and no matter how much huffing and puffing we all have done, has not altered that one bit..
So prehaps I am left with 2 choices, keep throwing stones, or call it a day and spend my time more constructively.

[notinshadow]

Which bit of this question was aggressive


Where did it all go wrong fella last night?

[beanzontoast]

Riddler, I hope it may be clear to you that party politics is and always will be in local government, how can it be any other way, in a democracy that is.

[beanzontoast]

Perseus, a question if i may, if you had as you wish some good honest folk in charge of the cash what would you like to see Hartlepool turn into. I would be genuinely interested in your answer.

[beanzontoast]

Riddler also a question if i may, i dont understand your reference to a stepford wife system, could you explain what that is, my question is why do you despise them all, ( i assume you mean all councillors ) again as a question to Perseus i would genuinely be interested in your reply.

[The Shadow]

In the film the stepford wives all the women looked and behaved exactly the same, robotically, irrespective of their name.

Where can I buy one of those?

[beanzontoast]

They might be more trouble than they are worth Shadow.

[The Shadow]

Interestingly the BNP lost every council seat they were defending

[The Shadow]

Risk of electric shock?

[Straight Talking]

My answer to the question is that even in Hartlepool, a broadly white working class area, people just aren't into race* based politics. The world has moved on and thankfully even the politically comatosed population of Hartlepool know that. Either that or they too happy asleep in their coma to care.
Nationaly the BNP were down 2% and UKIP up 2%. Either way it looks like a few hundred thousand xenophobes just moved from one horse to another but still fell at the first fence.

*race based politics in that way too much of your core manifesto comes back to the colour of a human beings skin and/or the country said human being happened to be born in.

Perseus and Shadow, You are both absolutely right - the electorate do not like negative/hate induced politics - it turns them off. That is why most people don't vote as they don't want to have anything to do with it.

Also for those parties to now complain (Like Kipperdip is trying to do) that people think "politicians are all the same" when those same parties have spent the last 50 years telling them that, is a bit rich.

Positive campaigning is what gets people elected.