UKIP

[notinshadow]

My family would have most of them rights if we were not in the E.U. so why pay £50m a day for them.

[notinshadow]

Doesn't tell me what benefit me or my family get out of the £50m a day given to the E.U. which is the question I am asking.

[Micksmate]

N.B

I've been in a debate with Derek Clark (UKIP MEP for the East Midlands) before, and (this is boasting admittedly) I wiped the floor with him. So if you think i'm refusing to pick up any gauntlet thrown down by you lot think again.

Just out of interest too, in the debate Mr Clark spoke up about smoking and championed the libeterian view that it should be "a man's right to smoke if he wants". He then attempted to support this belief and indeed dismiss the whole anti smoking message advocated by most modern day western governments with the following statement.... (and I'm quoting) "Smoking isn't half as bad for people as some people like to make out, my grandmother smoked like a chimney but lived to a ripe old age, so I don't support the science that says otherwise".

If I could capture any image on a camera in my career thus far, it would be the facial expression made by the lady from the NHS who was sat to my right as Derek came out with that gem.

Sounds interesting, where, when and what was this debate about and in what capacity did you attend?  As for the smoking issue, there were many people who smoked like chimney's and lived to a ripe old age but that dosen't alter the facts.  As for the anti-smoking brigade would they also buy into the argument for banning more than one car per household, if they ask why, ask them what they would rather be locked in a room with, full of cigarette smoke or full of car exhaust fumes. 

[admin]

Can I just remind everyone of the forum's clever facility which allows new threads to be created for new topics of discussion. This saves individual threads from being used as personal blogs.

[Ryehill]

  It is an interesting point that you, Perseus, were quite happy to share a platform with Derek Clark U.K.I.P. ME.P. , but you are prepared  to deny the right of U.K.I.P. members to take part in a debate at English Martyrs.

[Ryehill]

 It wasn't your decision to make! Who made the decision for you ?

[Ryehill]

                     One thing the E.U is good at is propaganda. Like Goebbels it has the philosophy that the bigger the lie then the more likely that it will be believed. Lets look at some of these lies and try to get to the truth.
1.                The E.U. has kept peace in Europe for 60 years.    Not so . There are a number of reasons why there has been peace in Europe since 1945. The American nuclear shield, the formation of N.A.T.O. the growth of mass travel, development of modern communications particularly T.V. even major sporting events. The E.U. founded in 1993  is,probably ,a contributory factor but not the single most important reason. Don't  forget Kosovo where the E.U. failed miserably to handle a problem in its own backyard and needed American intervention to sort it out. The way things are shaping up the E.U.could be the catalyst for an outbreak of hostilities between European countries.
  2              The E.U. is good for trade.   This claim wrongly assumes that there was little trade in Europe before the E.U. This is nonsense.  The people of Europe have traded happily for centuries.From Britains point of view before 1973 we had a healthy trade balance with the rest of Europe but now we have a massive deficit. The abolition of trade barriers in the E.U. could have easily been attained without entering a political union. The free movement of labour has not been beneficial to the British people. What is the value of having 4 million economic migrants working in this country when we have 2.5 million unemployed. That is the economics of the madhouse. In addition  the cost of the social affect is incalculable.
3.           3 million British jobs depend on our trade with the E.U.   Many British jobs are dependent on our export trade and many British jobs have always depended on our trade with our European neighbours .. Many German or French jobs depend on their membership of the E.U. If Britain left the E.U. tomorrow these countries would continue to trade with us because it is in their interest to do so. The E.U. does not create jobs it destroys them . Roger Helmer M.E.P. noted that the E.U. had a committee for unemployment which has been very successful because their is an awful lot of unemployment in the E.U.

[The Shadow]

Lots of people complain about the number of economic migrants that come to the UK for work but they always fail to mention the fact that a large number of UK citizens/subjects have also moved to other EU countries to work. Look at how many Brits went to Holland and Germany to work.

Works both ways.

[notinshadow]

My mate took on a guy from Poland and his great..

Can't speak English, so no lip from him..does put the English lads to shame with his work ethic in honesty.

[notinshadow]

Can I just remind everyone of the forum's clever facility which allows new threads to be created for new topics of discussion. This saves individual threads from being used as personal blogs.

What's a blog??

[Ryehill]

   Shadow you are quite right ,it does work both ways but the inbalance of numbers is the problem. Remember when East European countries joined the E.U. ,initially only G.B. Eire and Sweden allowed their nationals free access to jobs. This meant for economic migrants there was limited choice of countries . At the same time the Labour government assured us that only about 13k migrants would come here. That was a blatant lie and it has turned out that at least 2million East Europeans are now working in this country. This is another example why people are critical of our membership of the E.U. our own government has to lie to us on E.U. matters. So how can we trust them to look after our interests?

[mk1]

            The E.U. has kept peace in Europe for 60 years.    Not so . There are a number of reasons why there has been peace in Europe since 1945.

Completely misses the point.
The western countries (mainly UK/France/Germany have centuries of conflict with each other.
The EU  (promoted by that arch lefty/commie stooge Churchill) was meant to bind those nations so tightly together that a war between them would never again be possible. It has worked for 70 years.
It had nothing to do with the Soviet Union or the mire that is eastern Europe.
You must  be careful when  linking your 2 greatest evils on the planet (EU and the Commies) together and drawing false  conclusions.

Just in case anyone is interested here is a list of all European conlicts

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_conflicts_in_Europe#19th_century

Note how many times nation states have attacked each other in ths last centuries and how  it has vanished from the west since 1945.

[mk1]

OK folks a quiz.
Which nation has invaded the most  countries in the last 60 years.

1 The Soviet Union.
2 China
3 Libya
4 Iran
5 Iraq
6 N. Korea
7 Syria
8 United States.

I will make it easier
Which nation on that list has invaded more countries than all the others combined. and then some.
Pray tell me again about democratic nations not starting wars.

[notinshadow]

United States.. have you not seen the tee shirt that shows all the dates on their world tour. shocking.

[notinshadow]

So 3,000 plus views, 40 pages of posts has anyone changed their views and opinions on UKIP..

I haven't really.