Having read all the posts on this site, I am at a total loss as why the subject of UKIP keeps popping up in most threads, considering this party is fairly new, have not been in government and therefore are not responsible for the country's ills, I am also at a loss as to understand some of the ridiculous comments and assertions that appear on here regarding this party, especially from those self confessed above average IQ people. The only reason I can come up with is that these UKIP haters are simply closet Conservative voters/supporters who are terrified of UKIP's continued popularity, why else would there so much interest, perhaps some of these self confessed above average IQ posters could let us know why they have this obsession or have they simply jumped on their leaders claim of it being a party full of "Fruitcakes and closet racists" is it a case of David said it so it must be right?
As for myself I have never voted for a party but for an individual candidate who I think will be able to represent me best. Now having read the crap on here, you have made up my mind for me, I will be voting UKIP. (Not joining the party)
UKIP is full of right wing Tories that will do nothing ago address the inequality between workers and executives, neither will they save the NHS from privatisation or stop our homes from being tracked under.
What is to like about them, they like a pint of bitter like you ?
Mican, I think the interest in UKIP is that the way the local Labour/Tory alliance is going with allegedly scandalous, lying, cheating, untrustworthy and to a point potentially criminal accusations being brought to the attention of the everyday person in Hartlepool that thinks a bit more about the town than money grabbing Councillors, well UKIP stand a good chance of winning the MP seat here, providing the votes arnt diluted too much from others in May 2015.
However with the above said the credit can only and should only be afforded to the Independents Brash, Thompson, Riddle, Lilley and the others, as for the UKIP Councillors at the moment they appear to be "mute" "asleep" "docile", when in fact they should be banging their drums louder than the independents, but they aren't! SHAME on UKIP, UKIP WAKE UP WILL YA!
Quote from: Mican on November 04, 2014, 11: AM
Having read all the posts on this site, I am at a total loss as why the subject of UKIP keeps popping up in most threads,
It is very simple. There are a lot of UKIP members and shills on the forum. Party policy is to get a namecheck by infiltrating local networks and to push the party buzz words and dog whistle issues at every opportunity. If you want to see the method at its most brazen see this clip from YouTube where a crazy right wing
elected Tea party member goes off on a long rambling diatribe where she takes no account of what she is asked and just gets the buzz words across.
The best bit is at 2:50 where she asked if she is hypnotised
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzsVFr0mFeg
I am pretty confident there are kits available from UKIP Press Office to the true believers that lays all this out for them with suggestions as to what will play well in location X as opposed to that which goes down well in location Z.
Quote from: Land Phil on November 04, 2014, 12: PM
UKIP is full of right wing Tories that will do nothing ago address the inequality between workers and executives, neither will they save the NHS from privatisation or stop our homes from being tracked under.
What is to like about them, they like a pint of bitter like you ?
Please read my post again, I didn't ask what they are about or what is to like about them, simply why so much interest in them.
Same to MK1, why not simply answer the questions I raised instead of filling the page with nonsense, i bet admin are over the moon the way you use up space, not only providing links but then copying and pasting the story, why is it that nobody will give a simple answer to a simple question. "Why such interest in UKIP"
Quote from: Mican on November 04, 2014, 12: PM
Same to MK1, why not simply answer the questions I raised instead of filling the page with nonsense,
Then don't read it. If you can't stand the heat.........
Quote from: Mican on November 04, 2014, 12: PM
i bet admin are over the moon the way you use up space, not only providing links but then copying and pasting the story, why is it that nobody will give a simple answer to a simple question. "Why such interest in UKIP"
I can well understand your aversion to people posting facts that burst your little dream world. Rest assured your continual protestations of impartiality have never fooled me for a moment.
Quote from: mk1 on November 04, 2014, 01: PM
Quote from: Mican on November 04, 2014, 12: PM
Same to MK1, why not simply answer the questions I raised instead of filling the page with nonsense,
Then don't read it. If you can't stand the heat.........
What a clown
Quote from: Mican on November 04, 2014, 12: PM
i bet admin are over the moon the way you use up space, not only providing links but then copying and pasting the story, why is it that nobody will give a simple answer to a simple question. "Why such interest in UKIP"
I can well understand your aversion to people posting facts that burst your little dream world. Rest assured your continual protestations of impartiality have never fooled me for a moment.
What facts, what dream, sorry Ray, I should have remembered you are a master of clouding the issue, give my regards to your leader David.
A word of advise. If a post gets you upset then walk away and wait a while before replying.
Which 'Ray' am I by the way?
Quote from: mk1 on November 04, 2014, 01: PM
A word of advise. If a post gets you upset then walk away and wait a while before replying.
I can assure you I don't need advise from you or anyone else thank you
Which 'Ray' am I by the way?
The one who wont answer a simple ******* question. "Why so much interest in UKIP"
Is there anyone on here who can answer a simple question?
Quote from: Mican on November 04, 2014, 02: PM
Is there anyone on here who can answer a simple question?
A simple question like this you mean?
Quote from: mk1 on November 04, 2014, 01: PM
Which 'Ray' am I by the way?
Truth is you are paranoid and make the mistake of articulating your crazy ideas.
Quote from: mk1 on November 04, 2014, 02: PM
Quote from: Mican on November 04, 2014, 02: PM
Is there anyone on here who can answer a simple question?
A simple question like this you mean?
Quote from: mk1 on November 04, 2014, 01: PM
Which 'Ray' am I by the way?
Nope, the one about "Why such interest in UKIP" now come on Ray you might not have better things to do these days than play silly games like taking a thread in different directions, why not have a day off and simply answer a simple question?
Quote from: Mican on November 04, 2014, 03: PM
come on Ray you might not have better things to do these days than play silly games
There you go again.
I presume 'David' is Riddle so can I ask him of he could remind me which 'Ray' I am?
Quote from: Mican on November 04, 2014, 03: PM
why not have a day off and simply answer a simple question?
Did I not do that earlier?
Quote from: mk1 on November 04, 2014, 12: PM
It is very simple. There are a lot of UKIP members and shills on the forum..
Quote from: Mican on November 04, 2014, 12: PM
Quote from: Land Phil on November 04, 2014, 12: PM
UKIP is full of right wing Tories that will do nothing ago address the inequality between workers and executives, neither will they save the NHS from privatisation or stop our homes from being tracked under.
What is to like about them, they like a pint of bitter like you ?
Please read my post again, I didn't ask what they are about or what is to like about them, simply why so much interest in them.
I don't need to read it again; you need to grasp the concept of past and present tense. UKIP were approached by PHF but it fell on deaf ears - either that or there wasn't enough grey matter between the ears to understand what was being offered.
Quote from: steveL on November 04, 2014, 03: PM
Quote from: Mican on November 04, 2014, 12: PM
Quote from: Land Phil on November 04, 2014, 12: PM
UKIP is full of right wing Tories that will do nothing ago address the inequality between workers and executives, neither will they save the NHS from privatisation or stop our homes from being tracked under.
What is to like about them, they like a pint of bitter like you ?
Please read my post again, I didn't ask what they are about or what is to like about them, simply why so much interest in them.
I don't need to read it again; you need to grasp the concept of past and present tense. UKIP were approached by PHF but it fell on deaf ears - either that or there wasn't enough grey matter between the ears to understand what was being offered.
Hate to say this but you are on the wrong thread, you will note this was a quote from Land Phil that you have highlighted and replied to. What were you saying about "grey matter".
Quote from: mk1 on November 04, 2014, 03: PM
Quote from: Mican on November 04, 2014, 03: PM
why not have a day off and simply answer a simple question?
Did I not do that earlier?
Quote from: mk1 on November 04, 2014, 12: PM
It is very simple. There are a lot of UKIP members and shills on the forum..
Sorry not good enough, what you seem to be implying is that only people who are UKIP members or shills are posting about UKIP, so what are you Ray a shill or a "closet" kipper?
I seriously doubt if Ray Wells posts on this forum. To use a council word, the Spam Filter on this forum is quite 'robust' and anything pretending to be something that it isn't is readily filtered out.
Quote from: steveL on November 04, 2014, 03: PM
I seriously doubt if Ray Wells posts on this forum. To use a council word, the Spam Filter on this forum is quite 'robust' and anything pretending to be something that it isn't is readily filtered out.
Can't be that 'robust' there are people on here pretending to be intelligent. boom boom.
Now to get back to the origin of the thread WHY SUCH INTEREST IN UKIP? I have put in capitals for the benefit of those with alledgedly below average intelligence, I will be quite happy to hear your answers/views/opinions indeed anyones if it has to do with the thread. I thank you.
In answer to the initial post, this forum, certainly for as long as I've used it, has always been a haven for both UKIP supporters as well as those or a more reasonable, balanced mind-set.
Go back a few years and you could start a thread about toffee apples and somehow or other Kipperdip or someone would spin it to being about Brussels.
The forum and especially the main page are a different animal now though. The Hartlepool Post has been primarily responsible for some significant developments both within HBC and in the law courts.
I appreciate there's an election on the horizon, but I really hope we don't end up where we were 3 years or so ago on here, that being with every topic turning into a UKIP party political broadcast.
in answer to Micans question/statement:
QuoteWHY SUCH INTEREST IN UKIP
When I look at the forthcoming elections & UKIP I'm reminded of Brewsters' Millions ... in such that a vote for UKIP is a just like:
(http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/img/il5399375a.jpg)
it appears to be a protest vote. It certainly will be if UKIP win in Hartlepool.
I would have thought it obvious why there was increased interest in UKIP. With so many people fed up with Mr Wright, including a lot of Labour voters, UKIP look like they will pick up a significant ant-Wright vote which may possibly be enough to be Wright's downfall. To anyone interested in politics this makes for an 'interesting' situation.
It's equally obvious that a lot of people thinking of voting UKIP to achieve that end might well be put off if UKIP plan to claim any such victory as an endorsement for their own beliefs and it looks like that's exactly what they will do.
From reading all of the posts its sounds as if the local UKIPPERS aren't helping allay those fears either through their poor performance as councillors and/or their exaggerated triumphalism. Hartlepool is NOT a UKIP town but if they box clever and don't say or do stupid things they might just get a UKIP MP by default.
THAT is why there is so much interest in UKIP - we might be looking at a Monkey style 'none of the above' General Election vote but more UKIP councillors like the silent two we already have is a REALLY bad idea if the local Labour lot are to be properly scrutinised.
Quote from: craig finton on November 04, 2014, 05: PM
From reading all of the posts its sounds as if the local UKIPPERS aren't helping allay those fears either through their poor performance as councillors and/or their exaggerated triumphalism. Hartlepool is NOT a UKIP town but if they box clever and don't say or do stupid things they might just get a UKIP MP by default.
They are convinced they are home and dry and it will be their undoing. Note how they have ignored the Manchester Police Commisioner vote. I am sure it was mentioned here they were going to win but since the result total silence on the subject.
I have to say that I would not normaly consider a xenophobic far-right Party under normal circumstances but I believe they will not get enough MPs to be anything other than a minor nuisance to proper government. I will use them to get rid of a useless MP and a complacent Party. Labour need a good hard kick in the bol*locks and I will use UKIP to deliver it.
I do not, nor will I ever subscribe to the UKIP ethos of blaming every ill on foriegners, believing an exit from the EU will usher in a new age of empire or its complete suplication to the tobacco and drink industry. UKIP are a minority and will never achieve anything unless they attaract normal thinking people. The more I see posted here the more I wonder if they might not be worth the risk.
My advice to the devout one issue UKIP stalwart?
STFU!
In fairness, maybe that's why George and Tom have stayed silent.
All it would take is one "Bongo Bongo Land" or "abort the disabled" type comment from a regional UKIP councillor and even the most 'tempted' of protest voting middle of the road voter will run a mile and just not bother voting at all.
Even so, my view is that they have an obligation to 'get involved' in the chamber and take Labour on head on.
Until the UKIP lads shows they have the stomach for that fight, the choice in the GE/Locals for me is simple.
Hold your nose and vote UKIP (if PHF don't put up a candidate) at national level, and vote PHF or a strong independent in the locals.
It's that simple.
A Tory vote outside of West Park is a wasted vote and a Liberal Democrat vote is a wasted vote anywhere.
The people need to get out and vote and vote tactically.
Thank you, we are getting there, there are those (probably quite right) putting a lot of blame on UKIP supporters blaming the EU for everything, with others blaming UKIP for everything, but I am quite sure with the state of this town council we could all forget about UKIP for the time being and concentrate on the real issue.
Sadly this sort of comment dosn't help.
Quote from: DRiddle on November 04, 2014, 04: PM
In answer to the initial post, this forum, certainly for as long as I've used it, has always been a haven for both UKIP supporters as well as those or a more reasonable, balanced mind-set
By the way teach, should this not be "of"? "as well as those or a more reasonable, balanced mind-set"
Quote from: craig finton on November 04, 2014, 05: PMHartlepool is NOT a UKIP town . . . .
Hartlepool has been quite a strong location for UKIP for several years. The 2004 Westminster by-election put them on the map here [1] and they got their first councillor back in 2006 [2].
[1] http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3705866.stm
[2] http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/tees/4975086.stm
QuoteBy the way teach, should this not be "of"? "as well as those or a more reasonable, balanced mind-set"
It's called a typo. The R and the F are next to each other on a QWERTY keyboard.
Look, there's always a shift to the right in times of economic trouble. Go back through history in any democracy. The worse the economy, the greater the lurch to the right.
2015 will be no different. UKIP will win a few seats, maybe even a few councils, Johnny Foreigner will get the blame for all the evils of the world and in a couple of years it'll all calm down and people will revert to type.
Local UKIPpers seriously need to stop believing the hype or you'll undo your campaign right at the time you need to keep the momentum going.
As I've said before, Hartlepool may well far to UKIP, but that wont be because of UKIP.
Why indeed ! The answer ( and this opinion ) is that UKIP are becoming very good at propaganda and creating the myth that they are well supported and popular. If you tell a lie enough times more people will believe it, however they very rarely if ever live up to their hype. The Manchester commissioners vote as pointed out earlier in this thread is a point in question. Last night we had Beazontoast indulging himself on this forum practicing the Gobel tactics. "3rd most popular party" he claimed they are, really doesn't stand up to scrutiny though does it?
Earlier this year David Coburn the UKIP MEP claimed he was greeted in the streets in Glasgow by cheering crowds upon his return to his birth city. No one actually witnessed this only David, and a week later he failed miserably to attract any crowd or media apart from one reporter to his staged press conference in a Glasgow supermarket cafe. He and his fellow UKIPPERS all 10 of them were asked to leave the supermarket by the manager who called the police to get them moved. Hardly cheering crowds. But it is their practice of talking themselves up and people falling for it.
But be careful I fully understand the anger, frustration and disappointment the people of this town feel with all of the major political parties both locally and nationally. I will not vote in any local election or general election for any of them, but neither will I vote for UKIP under any circumstances for the the following reason. Any sizeable vote they get will only add to their inflated claims of their popularity and more dangerously they will claim popular support for their right wing racists policies. The fact that it is/was protests votes will not see het light of day. So to all who are considering a protest vote, I am with you, but I would vote Moster Looney rather than UKIP it is less dangerous.
Quote from: DRiddle on November 04, 2014, 06: PM
In fairness, maybe that's why George and Tom have stayed silent.
All it would take is one "Bongo Bongo Land" or "abort the disabled" type comment from a regional UKIP councillor and even the most 'tempted' of protest voting middle of the road voter will run a mile and just not bother voting at all.
Even so, my view is that they have an obligation to 'get involved' in the chamber and take Labour on head on.
Until the UKIP lads shows they have the stomach for that fight, the choice in the GE/Locals for me is simple.
Hold your nose and vote UKIP (if PHF don't put up a candidate) at national level, and vote PHF or a strong independent in the locals.
It's that simple.
A Tory vote outside of West Park is a wasted vote and a Liberal Democrat vote is a wasted vote anywhere.
The people need to get out and vote and vote tactically.
Or that God is punishing us with floods because of homosexuals as claimed by UKIP councillor David Silverster from Henley on Thames in January this year.
I note he refused to comment when asked why we have had such dry weather since gay marriage was legalised.
Now you know why the Hartlepool UKIP councillor have been told to keep their mouths shut. If I was Mr UKIP parliamentary candidate I would tell them all to keep their mouths shut.
But be patients there will be some almighty blunders by the Kippers, they cant help it .
Just when I thought things were getting on a sensible footing.
Quote from: Party Pooper on November 04, 2014, 07: PM
Or that God is punishing us with floods because of homosexuals as claimed by UKIP councillor David Silverster from Henley on Thames in January this year.
I note he refused to comment when asked why we have had such dry weather since gay marriage was legalised.
Now you know why the Hartlepool UKIP councillor have been told to keep their mouths shut. If I was Mr UKIP parliamentary candidate I would tell them all to keep their mouths shut.
But be patients there will be some almighty blunders by the Kippers, they cant help it .
Talk about banging your head off a brick wall.
What's up Mican don't you want the UKIP word spread? Clr Silvester is an elected spokesman for UKIP do you agree with him?
Quote from: Party Pooper on November 04, 2014, 09: PM
What's up Mican don't you want the UKIP word spread? Clr Silvester is an elected spokesman for UKIP do you agree with him?
If you had read the posts and inwardly digested them before making a reply, then there would have been no need to say "talk about banging your head off a brick wall". Words fail me.
The reason there is so much interest in UKIP is quite simple UKIP as a political party has begun to blow away the smoke and mirrors politics from Labour, Conservatives, and Lib Dems, and they are terrified of the people's army so they do what they must do to stop UKIP, they spend a great deal of time and effort to discredit the party and those that support it. I hope that answers your question
I don't suppose Labour and torys don't use propaganda, maybe the highly paid spin doctors are probably for doing the washing, I mean Ed Milliband was calling Cameron a rich guy with a priveleged background, while forgetting to tell his supporters he was exactly the , or the fact they always claim the NHS is safe in their hands, when they spent millions in gagging clauses in staff contracts all designed not to let the public know the truth, the torys are no better.. many of the comments on this forum have been about SAB Wilcox and labour running the show in Hartlepool many say they are sick of labour I say to you while you have 19 labour councillors and 3 torys who are really labour you can talk in the chamber until blue and when it comes to the vote, well you get the point, if you want change you have a choice in May, it matters not who you vote for but after may if labour still has the voting power in the council chamber then I would have to say all those on this forum who moan on about labor in Hartlepool are themselves buried in propaganda.
See what I mean about propaganda from party pooper, yes UKIPS David Silvester, did say exactly what party pooper said, what PP fails to mention was D Silvester was a member of UKIP for less than a month when he said it but had been a member of the Torys for 6 years. Its just being selective with the pen and therefore out and out propaganda.
Beanz one of my earlier posts said in my opinion UKIP are the anti European wing of the Tory party, so no suprise that that the Clr Silvester that well known amatuer spritual weather forecaster and genral nutter was attracted to UKIP. He is no a lone nutter in UKIP though is he! How do explain away Godfrey Bloom the non thinking persons answer to Forrest Gump.?
You claim UKIP are "the peoples army", get real !
This is precisley what I meant in my post about the dangers of voting for UKIP as a protest vote, the hard of thinking such as Beans see it as endorsement of their right wing crap.
Beans its too early in the day to be drinking mate.
Driddle may be on to something when he says in fairness to Tom and George, he may not be far off the mark, one little slip and they would be thrown to the wolves, they do get the chance to vote though and the way they vote is on record, they were only elected in May and I do know tom would have made a comment at the extraordinary meeting on the 13th if the mayor saga included the Hartlepool radio fiasco,let me tell you a true story a fortnight ago Tom went on a traing session in the civic centre the training session was understanding Dementia, Tom arrived early and sat down the rest of the attendees were from Labour they all sat in the row behind, one councillor before he sat down was waving a brown envelope the reference was of course to Neil Hamilton Tom replied it's to big to be your P45 councillor its tribal politics. but the red brick of the civic centre looks like its fading.
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/nov/05/eu-migrants-uk-gains-20bn-ucl-study
Interesting article from the Gaurdian on EU migrants to the UK. the headlines are;
# Tax payments by European migrants far outweight welfare
# Arrivals are better educated than British workers
I would encourage you to read this, particularly our Kipper friends on the site, might not be what you want to read but certainly flies in the face of the racist crap your party peddals on immigrants from the EU.
By the way Beans is "peopls army" higher or lower than "3rd most popular"
Be interesting to read what the Kippers parlimentary candidate has to say on this report. Come on Philip your words of wisdom please.
You're at it again PP the Guardian would say that now wouldn't it, the same story was in the Daily Mail which says otherwise, again it would wouldn't it, the point is which one is the correct version, either the Guardian is being economical with the truth, and the mail is telling downright lies, there's that propaganda again.
Read the article in the paper he sent the letter to. They have it so I presume we can now accept the basic truth of the story
http://www.henleystandard.co.uk/news/news.php?id=39428
In a letter to the Henley Standard, he said: "Since the passage of the Marriage (Same Sex Couples) Act, the nation has been beset by serious storms and floods.
"One recent one caused the worst flooding for 60 years. The Christmas floods were the worst in 127 years. Is this just 'global warming' or is there something more serious at work?
"The scriptures make it abundantly clear that a Christian nation that abandons its faith and acts contrary to the Gospel (and in naked breach of a coronation oath) will be beset by natural disasters such as storms, disease, pestilence and war."
He said he had warned Mr Cameron that the new law would result in "disasters", adding: "But he went ahead despite a 600,000-signature petition by concerned Christians and more than half of his own parliamentary party saying that he should not do so.
"Now, even as Cameron sheds crocodile tears on behalf of destitute flooded homeowners, playing at advocate against the very local councils he has made cash-strapped, it is his fault that large swathes of the nation have been afflicted by storms and floods.
"He has arrogantly acted against the Gospel that once made Britain 'great' and the lesson surely to be learned is that no man or men, however powerful, can mess with Almighty God with impunity and get away with it for everything a nation does is weighed on the scales of divine approval or disapproval
(http://img910.imageshack.us/img910/5916/4RWRKp.jpg) (http://imageshack.com/i/pa4RWRKpj)
Quote from: beanzontoast on November 05, 2014, 02: PM
either the Guardian is being economical with the truth, and the mail is telling downright lies, there's that propaganda again.
The Broadssheets and the gutter red-tops have an agenda? Surely not. I refuse to believe a National Paper could pander to the ignorant masses............
(http://img633.imageshack.us/img633/8146/HN0kRX.jpg) (http://imageshack.com/i/hlHN0kRXj)
Quote from: mk1 on November 05, 2014, 03: PMThe Broadssheets and the gutter red-tops have an agenda? Surely not. I refuse to believe a National Paper could pander to the ignorant masses............
I chose to believe you are speaking ironically..... ;)......of course ALL newspapers wether they be local, national or international ALL have an agenda. As do internet bloggers, press agencies, TV stations, radio stations, people posting on this message board, the guy in the pub and the man on the Clapham Omnibus. The key is to realise what the agenda is and to interpret the stories appropriately. Sorry to ride my hobby horse again but this is why "sources" are so important. A quote from the BNP website on a story would give a different slant to a quote about the same story from the Guardian. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle.
One Direction, I am sure that MK1 will answer for him or herself, but I see the point she/he was making towards Beanzontoast was that Beanzontoast doesn't level the accusation that the papers have an agenda when they carry the headlines as displayed on MK1s posts.
I interpret Beanzontoast positions as the red tops are ok as long as they print stuff we like but how dare they carry a story that shows them in a poor light.
I think there are far too many credible sources for the God is giving us a flooding because some people are Gay, for it to somebody has it in for UKIP
What do you think.?
Well done Ray, how long did it take you to put that lot together?
Why is it that when I ask a simple question, apart from the odd one, all there seems to be are party political brodcasts or people filling the page with links and other such unsubstanciated crap. Anyone who can honestly say they can look at a headline and say they believe it without it being substantiated need to go and see someone because they have a problem. No doubt they will be saying next they believe in the tooth fairy, then again they will probably say they left them a silver threepenny piece under their pillow so it must be right. Try telling Millie Dowlers parents that newspaper headlines and stories must be right or they wouldn't have printed them. Tell that to Rupert Murdoch whose newspaper he had to shut down and tell that to the editors and journalists who got jailed for printing false headlines and stories.
What do I think? I think that if you start with a position then you can find evidence to prove you are right. Then some one else can find evidence to prove you are wrong. I would ask the people posting on here claiming that UKIP are evil and need to be stopped just one question. How many UKIP Memebers have you actually met, talked to and debated with? Not how many headlines have you seen, not how many articles have you read, not how many tweets have you recived on your Twitter account from #ukipareevil, not even how many interviews have you seen on TV or listened to on the radio because every single one of those chanels of communication are filtered through the agenda of the person, organisation or medium through which they are reaching you. Ultimately I believe what my own eyes see, what my own ears hear and what my own nose smells. I have met Mr Wright MP on several occassions, I know he is a two faced, self serving, professional politician who has the best interests of himself and his party career at heart. So I won't vote for him. Similarly I won't vote UKIP either because I've never met the UKIP candidate. He might be a great guy but I don't know him. If he knocks on my door, answrs my questions while looking me straight in the eye without being shifty or evasive then he might get my vote. At the moment however its "None of the above" on my ballot paper.
PS Just out of interest I googled "Labour are evil" and now I know that Labour are a party of paedophiles, it must be true, just read this link. Proves it
http://labour25.com/2011/06/14/entering-the-dark-evil-paedophile-world-of-the-labour-partys-paedophile-ring/
Mind you the most insidious, most corrupt, most morally bankrupt political party is not the Labour Party, as I think I had naively always assumed, but rather the Liberal Democrats.
http://www.trendingcentral.com/why-the-lib-dems-are-the-most-morally-bankrupt-political-party-in-britain/
However, I also know Tories are truly the scum of the earth. Self-serving, selfish, greedy and grasping they will clamber over anyone and anything to protect their wealth and to accumulate more.
http://www.endevil.com/tories.html
Of course that misses the fact that the Green Party philosophy and policies are fundamentally evil - they are authoritarian statists, whose key interest is in using the monopoly of legitimised violence (the state) to force people to do what they want, ban people from doing what they don't want. to confiscate more money from people who earn it, and to give other people's money to things they like.
http://libertyscott.blogspot.co.uk/2005/09/why-greens-are-evil.html
etc etc etc
I've met and talked with loads. Most of the local lot, the 2 UKIP councillors, Phil Broughton etc. I actually once chaired a Question Time style debate with a UKIP MEP.
Derek Clark his name was. That was an experience. I'm not sure if he achieved much politically, although I do remember him having to pay back about £30,000 in expenses due to a 'misunderstanding'.
He was a textbook UKIP cliché. His main contribution to the debate was to tell a lady from the NHS that the whole 'anti smoking agenda' was a myth because (and I quote) "My grandmother smoked like a chimney and lived well into her 90s".
Clearly Derek saw this as being stronger evidence than 100 years of longitudinal research by scientists across the globe.
As we are no further forward on this subject, let us look at the reality of how people look at things and see them a different way, the letter by David Silvester for instance.
In a letter to the Henley Standard, he said: "Since the passage of the Marriage (Same Sex Couples) Act, the nation has been beset by serious storms and floods.
"One recent one caused the worst flooding for 60 years. The Christmas floods were the worst in 127 years. Is this just 'global warming' or is there something more serious at work?
Bear with me: These are actual facts
"The scriptures make it abundantly clear that a Christian nation that abandons its faith and acts contrary to the Gospel (and in naked breach of a coronation oath) will be beset by natural disasters such as storms, disease, pestilence and war."
These are factually wrong.
He said he had warned Mr Cameron that the new law would result in "disasters", adding: "But he went ahead despite a 600,000-signature petition by concerned Christians and more than half of his own parliamentary party saying that he should not do so.
"Now, even as Cameron sheds crocodile tears on behalf of destitute flooded homeowners, playing at advocate against the very local councils he has made cash-strapped, it is his fault that large swathes of the nation have been afflicted by storms and floods.
These I think we can all agree on. Lack of cash for flood defence, lack of dredging the rivers (oops better not let the greenies see that bit)
"He has arrogantly acted against the Gospel that once made Britain 'great' and the lesson surely to be learned is that no man or men, however powerful, can mess with Almighty God with impunity and get away with it for everything a nation does is weighed on the scales of divine approval or disapproval
Not sure where in the bible that comes from.
As we have seen from the head lines this is a UKIP crackpot blaming "gay marriages" for the floods and jumped on by the papers and UKIP haters, but people who can smell the coffee and see the wood and are in no way prejudice, will look at it from a different way. They will see it as a letter of two parts, the first part written by a man who went to Bible College and will assume he believed the words from the scriptures he wrote. (Although they are factually wrong) the second part we can all agree with. So if you think he is a crackpot spouting from the bible, I assume you wont be going to church again, weddings, funerals etc. because you are going to be faced with another crank in the pulpit spouting from the bible and bringing back bad memories.
I now have no further interest in the thread. I am not going to make any more posts on the subject.
Quite why I feel the need to make such an anouncement is as much a puzzle to me as it is to you.
Mican do you agree with Clr David Silvester UKIP that the floods and gay marriage are linked and the one is the cause of the other ?
Your question about going back to church assumes that the people you are addressing in this thread are Christians as that's what Silvester is and Christians call their places of worship churches.there are or religions and some people have no religion what so ever.
Mican thats exactly where I am coming from I have repeatedly tried to keep a balance on my comments, and therefore PP is wrong when he suggests anything printed in a national paper with a red top is ok with me is it isn't, what I would say is that if it has a red top it probably has a Labour bias, and the Mail has a tory bias, once you know that you are on a winner, as an example for 15 years the Labour party has been running the NHS in Wales and its an absolute mess the daily mail ran this story for 4 days the Mirror didn't mention it at all. If true it blows away the claim labour makes that the NHS is only safe in their hands.
Quote from: Party Pooper on November 05, 2014, 10: PM
Mican do you agree with Clr David Silvester UKIP that the floods and gay marriage are linked and the one is the cause of the other ?
No.
Your question about going back to church assumes that the people you are addressing in this thread are Christians as that's what Silvester is and Christians call their places of worship churches.there are or religions and some people have no religion what so ever.
I was assuming that the place you would find someone stood in a pulpit quoting from the bible would be a church, perhaps you can come up with another explanation? You don't have to be a christian or any other religion or have no religion to go to a church for a funeral or wedding.
By the way you are not Ray's alter ego are you, putting in gramatical errors to throw us off?
Party Pooper mentioned this weeks report on the benefits of immigration, what he failed to mention was that the report was compiled by Christian Dustmaan. He was the academic that predicted that only 13k Eastern Europeans would come to the U.K.when border restrictions were eased. An error in the order of 2000%. I think that these kind of statistic are more worthy of discussion than the eccentric ramblings of a virtually unknown councillor.
Its a well known fact that 87.43% of all statistical evidence used in arguments are made up on the spot.
Quote from: Lord Elpus on November 06, 2014, 12: PM
Its a well known fact that 87.43% of all statistical evidence used in arguments are made up on the spot.
.... and there's another one!
Quote from: Ryehill on November 06, 2014, 12: PM
Party Pooper mentioned this weeks report on the benefits of immigration, what he failed to mention was that the report was compiled by Christian Dustmaan. He was the academic that predicted that only 13k Eastern Europeans would come to the U.K.when border restrictions were eased. An error in the order of 2000%. I think that these kind of statistic are more worthy of discussion than the eccentric ramblings of a virtually unknown councillor.
It's also a well known fact that any topic of conversation which includes a UKIP participant will eventually focus on the EU, Immigration or Muslims
Steve L. I was replying to a comment made by Party Pooper, so what are you saying? That on a thread dedicated to a Eurosceptic party no comments about the E.U. should be made .Nor should there be any mention of immigration, which has only become a major issue since the E.U. policy of free movement of labour has been implemented. In future, in order to avoid confusion, it might be an idea if you set the guidelines for discussion.
It's not for me to set 'guidelines' for discussion. People talk about what they want. Admittedly, cross-over occurs and sometimes people go off at such a tangent that they really should have started a new thread. All common sense to me.
As for my own comment, I remain of the view that UKIP is a pressure group; no more. A receptacle for people who have an obsession about the EU, Immigration and Muslims. You might have a different view and I'd be first in the queue to defend your right to hold it.
To Mican I would say that it was PHF that held out a tactical hand to UKIP. The UKIP response was pretty much on the lines that PHF wouldn't put up candidates against UKIP and in return UKIP wouldn't field candidates in the places they weren't going to field candidates anyway.
Since May, UKIP have remained pretty much silent in the council chamber. All the running has been made by Independents and PHF. Personally, I put that silence down to the fact that HBC doesn't have any real influence on EU matters, the town doesn't have an immigration problem and that Muslim kids seem to be a damn sight better behaved than a significant minority of our own 'white Christian' kids.
Incidentally, someone who blames periodic floods on gay marriage is not 'eccentric'; he's a bloody nutter and what bothers people is that the UKIP selection process appears to be so slack that it allows such people through the gate.
I agree with most of what you say Steve apart from the last bit, basically what you are saying if anyone quotes the scriptures they are nutters. Enough of that, the following is a copy of the reply I made to Dave Riddle on the National thread.
"I completely agree with you, but just let me say, when you were running for council I made a comment about social media which still stands, anyone can read what is written and though it may have it's advantages it also has it's disadvantages and may one day come back to bite you. If PHF expects UKIP to be buddy buddy in the chamber, then PHF needs to stop it's critism of UKIP on social media which has been going on for a while, to say the least it's not the brightest of ideas. Stay with the things that are important in the town. And no I am not a supporter of UKIP or PHF."
Yes but it's a bit like the argument to vote UKIP simply to get rid of Wrighty i.e. 'for the greater good'. UKIP are quite happy with that if they are the ones to benefit but when it came to the council chamber and a sensible approach to get rid of the Labour majority (for the greater good) UKIP didn't want to know.
It's probably just as well. When a UKIP councillor spouts off against a housing development claiming that 'it would end up being full of immigrants' then to quote the Scotsman, "'Am oot!"
Let me see if I can make this plain so any reasonably intelligent person can grasp it, I must stress this is my own personal oppinion. Question when Red Ed said we are all in this together who do you think he was refering to, all labour supporters thought he meant them, WRONG. I have mentioned this next bit before you really need to pay attention Labour brought mass immigration to England for 2 reasons votes is one the other is to provide cheap labour to the torys multinational company's the we're all in it together was the torys and labour are in it together, and the reason is china we can't beat it so watch out for an increase in manufacturing here, it's not that we can't beat them with manufacturing we can our labour costs are too high. And heres another question you navel gazers won't get and I'm not giving the answer you will have to start doing jigsaws those who have been looking through the square window may have noticed that old street fighter John Prescott in Newcastle the other day the question is what was he doing there, when you figure that out extrapolate it and the answer will astound you.
Was he at George Cairns' funeral?
Or was he playing croquet down the Scotswood Road (having been chauffeured there in one of his jaguars) ?
Thought "we are all in this together"was Camerons sound bite?.Cheap labour for the Tories but our labour costs are too high ?.
Quote from: steveL on November 06, 2014, 03: PM
Yes but it's a bit like the argument to vote UKIP simply to get rid of Wrighty i.e. 'for the greater good'. UKIP are quite happy with that if they are the ones to benefit but when it came to the council chamber and a sensible approach to get rid of the Labour majority (for the greater good) UKIP didn't want to know.
It's probably just as well. When a UKIP councillor spouts off against a housing development claiming that 'it would end up being full of immigrants' then to quote the Scotsman, "'Am oot!"
You never fail to amaze me Steve, once again in reply to a post you call UKIP and UKIP councillors worse than sh*te then expect them to side with you "for the greater good". Personally if I was a UKIP councillor and you came to me with a proposition and an extended hand I would tell you where to shove both. Will you never learn.
Half the problem there though Mican, is one parties ability/willingness to make the most of the most interesting political situation for a generation, cancelled out by the other party getting lost in their own hype.
Here's how I genuinely see it.
UKIP in a 4 or 5 horse race could poll around 8,000-9,000 in the GE and Wright will win with a totally blinkered Labour vote of 10,000+. (The Tories and the Liberal Democrats having came nowhere).
PHF could easily poll 4,000-5,000 with a paper candidate.
Personally I despise everything UKIP stand for.... but.... I see the logic in each party not cancelling out the other both in the GE and the locals.
Labour are absolutely banking on UKIP and PHF (and the Tories) contesting all 11 wards.
If we do, I see Labour being reduced to 17, UKIP rising to 4 with PHF maybe staying as we are (although perhaps with some losses and gains across the wards).
Labour know a different situation could very easily cost them 4 or 5 wards and get their total down to maybe 14 or 15.
If that happened, we'd have an interesting situation within the chamber.
Regrettably, I think the window of opportunity will be lost due to egos getting the better of pragmatism.
Quote from: DRiddle on November 06, 2014, 08: PM
Half the problem there though Mican, is one parties ability/willingness to make the most of the most interesting political situation for a generation, cancelled out by the other party getting lost in their own hype.
While I agree with the rest of your post, with this bit the way I genuinely see it, is that your party has constantly criticised in writing on social media another party, which you then blame for not joining you, if the boot was on the other foot would you be prepared to join in?
It's not about anyone joining anyone.
It's about doing what's necessary to achieve a mutual objective.
Quote from: DRiddle on November 06, 2014, 09: PM
It's not about anyone joining anyone.
It's about doing what's necessary to achieve a mutual objective.
You're getting to be quite the politition Dave, pity your friends haven't joined you: "To Mican I would say that it was PHF that held out a tactical hand to UKIP."
And as usual from DLIDDLE its not about joining anyone, its more about a mutual objective, what does that mean exactly in English please, are you for not joining anyone or you would prefer they joined you or what, and what is this mutual objective you speak of
beanze, are you really that out of touch with reality.
I'm just replying to Driddle and his comment re PHF putting up an MP and im out of touch with reality, you heard it here folks PHF are putting up an MP in May
oh God, what's the point....... :-X
Quote from: Mican on November 06, 2014, 09: PM
Quote from: DRiddle on November 06, 2014, 08: PM
Half the problem there though Mican, is one parties ability/willingness to make the most of the most interesting political situation for a generation, cancelled out by the other party getting lost in their own hype.
While I agree with the rest of your post, with this bit the way I genuinely see it, is that your party has constantly criticised in writing on social media another party, which you then blame for not joining you, if the boot was on the other foot would you be prepared to join in?
This post isn`t about UKIP or PHF or Labour, its about the future direction of Hartlepool, from what i have seen so far from the 2 UKIP councilor so far they haven`t exactly joined with the Indys or PHF to fight whats going on within our council.
UKIP need to look into the only way forward for them & Hartlepool Council, an election stategy isn`t about "Joining Anyone" its about putting Hartlepool above petty party politics.
Quote from: beanzontoast on November 06, 2014, 11: PM
I'm just replying to Driddle and his comment re PHF putting up an MP and im out of touch with reality, you heard it here folks PHF are putting up an MP in May
And as usual from DLIDDLE its not about joining anyone, its more about a mutual objective, what does that mean exactly in English please, are you for not joining anyone or you would prefer they joined you or what, and what is this mutual objective you speak of
WARNING WARNING Will RobinsonGo To Start OF Thread And Re-Read, And Digest Before Posting.
WTF............. You really need to take the future of Hartlepool into account, your above comment smacks of xenphobic paranoia
Quote from: beanzontoast on November 06, 2014, 10: PM
And as usual from DLIDDLE its not about joining anyone, its more about a mutual objective, what does that mean exactly in English please, are you for not joining anyone or you would prefer they joined you or what, and what is this mutual objective you speak of
Beanz I am sure he will draw you a picture if you bring your own crayons.
Mican you have wisdom beyond your years, and I am in full agreement Stevel and Driddle have indeed shown they despise everything about UKIP and what they stand for and as it must be obvious the same sentiment and bile must be the one of the policies of PHF. and as you say why would UKIP want to be part of any discussions which involved them at all. Kipperdip you know what you now have to recommend to your branch
QuoteKipperdip you know what you now have to recommend to your branch
Kipperdip also knows what he needs to do if his intention is to take a seat within HBC.
Anyway, enough of this. It's like talking to a wall.
Beanze, you make too many presumptions. I'm a member of PHF, I also have serious doubts about the federal agenda which is now part of the EU experiment. I would welcome a referendum on EU membership.
UKIP have shown on too many occasions that they are a one issue party, the political niaviety of your two Councillors is a classic example of this blinkered view.
Hartlepool Council has some serious problems to address, and your Councillors should be fighting on those issues. They seem more concerned with immigration and the curvature of bananas which are way beyond the remit of HBC.
These threads and your postings are doing no favours to your man Phil. Unless of course you are a Labour 'stool pigeon'.
Yes Hartlepool has some serious problems to addresa one of them being the Mayor who you wanted to stand down, you proved you were innefective at doing so, And UKIP have evolved from a one policy party, unlike yourselves who have no policies at all, Ukips Manifesto covers everything from taxation to fishing and of course the NHS of we will have say in the chamber, I might just add the comments from Driddle regrding UKIP have done PHF no good at all.
I don't think it was 'ineffective' at all. SAB was never going to stand down but thanks to the efforts of the independents and PHF at least the whole town now knows about the issue when he tried to keep it quiet. From what I've seen and read, people have made it clear what they think he should do. What are you suggesting? That they should have stayed silent on the matter like the UKIP councillors did? Oh yes, I forgot, they're waiting for the topics of 'fishing' and the top rate of income tax to come up for discussion in the council chamber. Well you're going to have a long wait, mate. ::)
For a group who want some kind of arrangement with U.K.I.P. P.H.F.representatives have an unfortunate way of expressing themselves.Their approach is more like offering a bouquet of barbed wire rather than an olive branch. To regularly insult a possible ally, on a public forum, indicates either a serious lack of judgement or they are not really interested in any kind of agreement. Of course in the event of a P.H.F. failure next May they can fall back on the excuse that it was all U.K.I.P's fault.
That bird has flown. The conclusion quickly arrived at was that the local UKIP guys are just too plain thick for any meaningful conversation to take place.
Quote from: steveL on November 07, 2014, 12: PM
That bird has flown. The conclusion quickly arrived at was that the local UKIP guys are just too plain thick for any meaningful conversation to take place.
Words truely fail me. Bye bye
Quote from: steveL on November 07, 2014, 12: PM
That bird has flown. The conclusion quickly arrived at was that the local UKIP guys are just too plain thick for any meaningful conversation to take place.
I think this thread has demonstrated that perfectly.
Quote from: Mican on November 07, 2014, 12: PM
Words truely fail me. Bye bye
As they frequently have the UKIP councillors in the council chamber apparently.
My comments were in answer to Elpus as he well knows, in which he remarked UKIP was a one issue party, I am meerly stating UKIP have come a long way from that now,but clearly they haven't noticed , what they have done is through Driddle shown they dispise UKIP and all it stands for, which is very welcome news as UKIP didn't at all know which boat they were in so to speak, now they do, some of us who felt they could work with them on common ground must forthwith apologise to the branch in Hartlepool as many said no sadly they were right.
The 'common ground' was that it was in the best interests of Hartlepool that PHF and UKIP should be sensible in the way that they targeted council wards and not split the anti-Labour vote in order to rid our town of a dysfunctional council. As it turns out, UKIP were unable to grasp this concept - that they should put the interests of their town before what it believed to be the interests of their party.
So they've been left to carry on with their rantings on the EU, Immigration and Muslims while remaining silent on the local issues which a local council is meant to deal with and with which they seem to be content to leave to Independents and PHF to sort out.
I don't know why I'm bothering with this. You really are stuck in a parallel universe of paranoia. Stay there by all means. Just don't get in the way while others try to recover our town from the mess that its in - and please don't frighten the horses.
I can see Mr Broughton's vote fading away if these people don't keep quiet.
Recover the town from the mess its in, now thers a good point, the 2 UKIP councillors have only been elected in may, tell me again how long have you had independants, and PHF councillors, and if as you say Hartlepool is in a mess now surely you are saying those independants and PHF couldn't stop it what makes you think they are the best people to put it right. As has been said by another why am I bothering,for me it was a fishing exercise re PHF and I have the difficult piece for the jigsaw many thanks all for your consistent venom directed at anything UKIP.
Quote from: for fawkes sake on November 07, 2014, 02: PM
I can see Mr Broughton's vote fading away if these people don't keep quiet.
Too true!
Quote from: mk1 on November 07, 2014, 02: PM
I am glad the forum is back on track and no longer dominated by 'EU/Immigrant/Muslim' obsessives!
Good old Ray you never fail, unfortunately all those morons who base their political belief on newspaper headlines will sadly continue to fill the site with their drivel and links.
Quote from: Mican on November 07, 2014, 02: PM
Quote from: mk1 on November 07, 2014, 02: PM
I am glad the forum is back on track and no longer dominated by 'EU/Immigrant/Muslim' obsessives!
Good old Ray you never fail, unfortunately all those morons who base their political belief on newspaper headlines will sadly continue to fill the site with their drivel and links.
FFS pal give it a rest wilya... your doing more harm to the UKIP party than good old Godfrey Bloom
Quote from: fred c on November 07, 2014, 03: PM
Quote from: Mican on November 07, 2014, 02: PM
Quote from: mk1 on November 07, 2014, 02: PM
I am glad the forum is back on track and no longer dominated by 'EU/Immigrant/Muslim' obsessives!
Good old Ray you never fail, unfortunately all those morons who base their political belief on newspaper headlines will sadly continue to fill the site with their drivel and links.
FFS pal give it a rest wilya... your doing more harm to the UKIP party than good old Godfrey Bloom
If these comments are meant for me could you kindly explain them in easy to understand language. I am beginning to get the feeling that the opinions of PHF and anti UKIP are the only ones acceptable on this site. Sorry to disappoint you, but I don't believe in having other peoples opinions rammed down my throat, I believe in fact not fiction.
Phil UKIP.......................
You really need to have a word with your pals about the quality of their posts on here ....................
They are doing your GE chances an awful lot of damage with their posts.... you need to get a grip of the problem before its to late.
These latest posts between PHF and UKIP illustrate why Labour will probably win again.P*ss up in a brewery comes to mind.
Quote from: pensionater on November 07, 2014, 09: PM
These latest posts between PHF and UKIP illustrate why Labour will probably win again.P*ss up in a brewery comes to mind.
DITTO
What a waste of time that was, I started a thread with a simple question: "Why such interest in UKIP" this received 95 replies, 16 of which were mine, the vast majority were from UKIP haters and not one answer to a simple question. Some of the "answers" were simply links to newspapers, most of which were the same story copied from a single source under different headlines.
We had members of a party openly name calling and criticising other councillors in writing on social media, when this was pointed out to them they seem to think they have done nothing wrong. Other people when their comments are challenged either do not reply or spit their dummies out and come back with ridiculous comments. Usually when they don't have an answer they revert to the same arguments EU and immigrants, they have now added another to their repertoire "Muslims".
If this is the intelligence of the "politically aware" is it any wonder politics in Hartlepool is such a mess. This was supposed to be a simple discussion, unfortunately there are people who it seems are not able to read the posts in full before replying.
Mican, if you want adult, political debate then you are wasting your time on message boards like this. Treat them as what they are, a wsy of raising tge blood pressure of the fanatics who cant see any validity in a viewpoint other than their own. Reasoned argument can never reach those with true faith who know they are right and everyone else is doomed to burn in hell fire unlessvthey accept the truth and come into the light. If you want an example of how twisted these people can be just look at the group calling themselves "hope not hate" a very laudable aim you might say? Sadly they seem to me to consider every wiewpoint other than their own to be unacceptable and some of their comments and tactics aimed at groups they accuse of being hateful are actually verging on the facist. They are like people who think you can bomb your way to peace?
oh you're being far too harsh - UKIP aren't as bad as that.
Hi One Direction I am interested I what you have to day about "Hope not Hate" can you give examples of wht you mean and were they come form please. Thanks.
Mican when you ask a question like the one you have you can't expect to only get answers you like or hope for. but why don't you tell us wht your answer to your question is.
Quote from: Party Pooper on November 08, 2014, 10: AM
Mican when you ask a question like the one you have you can't expect to only get answers you like or hope for. but why don't you tell us wht your answer to your question is.
I wasn't expecting any answers I liked or hope for, I was simply expecting answers, I am still waiting for a sensible answer to the "question", in fact any answer to the "question", can't wait to hear yours as long as it's an answer.
Can anyone remind me what the question was?
Quote from: Lord Elpus on November 08, 2014, 12: PM
Can anyone remind me what the question was?
My point exactly councillor. I will put it in capitals and if anyone is still confused, let me know and I will put spaces between the letters to make it easier.
"WHY SUCH INTEREST IN UKIP"
I did not know they was.
Is this what you mean MICAN?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2579115/Nigel-Farage-accused-paying-wife-former-mistress-using-public-money-Ukip-leader-dismisses-absolute-nonsense.html
He's a bit of a lad is your man Nigel.
Just think what it would be like if these posts were in joindy up writing.
Mican - Why do you have so much interest in UKIP? That seems to be a more suitable question since it is you who started this separate thread when there was an UKIP themed thread already going. Then you proceeded to start yet another on the National and International boards.
You're doing a very good job at keeping the UKIP name at the top of the boards. ;)
Quote from: SRMoore on November 08, 2014, 03: PM
Mican - Why do you have so much interest in UKIP? That seems to be a more suitable question since it is you who started this separate thread when there was an UKIP themed thread already going. Then you proceeded to start yet another on the National and International boards.
You're doing a very good job at keeping the UKIP name at the top of the boards. ;)
I don't have interest in UKIP, I simply asked a question to which there is no real answer. Another would be politician who answers a question with a question.
Quote from: Doris Bonkers on November 08, 2014, 03: PM
This interest in UKIP is brought on by a fear in the Labour & Conservative parties that they will lose seats in the next local elections. The clear strategy, by both, is to divert attention from the failings of their own local councillors to do nothing for Hartlepool other than line their own pockets and massage their own over-inflated egos.
As much as I have no time at all for UKIP I will vote for them, as they are the only chance to unseat the current bunch of corrupt individuals.
Thank you Doris, it's nice to know there is someone on here who can actually read and then give an intelligent answer.
Quote from: Mican on November 08, 2014, 03: PM
I don't have interest in UKIP
Okay, I'll believe you. Thousands wouldn't...
Quote from: Doris Bonkers on November 08, 2014, 03: PM
This interest in UKIP is brought on by a fear in the Labour & Conservative parties that they will lose seats in the next local elections. The clear strategy, by both, is to divert attention from the failings of their own local councillors to do nothing for Hartlepool other than line their own pockets and massage their own over-inflated egos.
I'd have to disagree with you Doris. Your claim that the interest in UKIP on this site is "brought on by a fear in the Labour & Conservative parties that they will lose seats" is a strange one to make since the
VAST majority of those commenting on (and criticising) UKIP threads deliberately started by Mican have not come from Labour or Conservative voters/members/councillors at all.
Obviously you are entitled to your opinion, I just happen to think you are way off the mark
Quote from: Doris Bonkers on November 08, 2014, 04: PM
When the local Conservative party councillors start being an opposition to, as opposed to a prop to the idiotic leader and the ceremonial mayor I might think about listening to you @SRM. Until then....
I fixed that for you. All I would say is that if you want to see that happen you need to be voting for and electing real Conservative candidates rather than tarring them all with the same brush.
Thank you Doris, you are the answer to my dreams.
Quote from SRMoore: "real Conservative candidates" come on then Shane who are they, or shall I start a new post?
Quote from: Mican on November 08, 2014, 03: PM
I don't have interest in UKIP, I simply asked a question to which there is no real answer. Another would be politician who answers a question with a question.
Mican for some one who doesn't have an interest in UKIP you don't half get stroppy when any negative comments are made about them. Are you like that with all parties?
Agree with most of that Doris but have UKIP any candidates who will be able to speak in the council? Do they have any council or parliamentary candidates who will answer a question from people they want to vote for them?
Oops bet I have upset the non interested Mican again sorry pet.
Question for SRMoore, Does the National/Regional Conservative Party know of Cllr Well's (and the other Conservative/Labour Cllrs) obvious coalition with Hartlepools Labour Party?
Quote from: Tommy on November 08, 2014, 04: PM
Question for SRMoore, Does the National/Regional Conservative Party know of Cllr Well's (and the other Conservative/Labour Cllrs) obvious coalition with Hartlepools Labour Party?
If they don't then there is something seriously wrong with their organisation thanks for pointing out another reason not to vote conservative they don't know what's going on in their own party how the hell can they know what's going on in the country?
Quote from: Party Pooper on November 08, 2014, 04: PM
If they don't then there is something seriously wrong with their organisation thanks for pointing out another reason not to vote conservative they don't know what's going on in their own party how the hell can they know what's going on in the country?
They probably do know but just don't care! Despite all the UKIP fluff being blown on this site I'll put a bet on with anyone that Labour hold Hartlepool in the 2015 General election. Even the most optimistic predictions I've seen in the press and on line only give UKIP about 10 seats and none of the are in the north east.
Quote from: Party Pooper on November 08, 2014, 04: PM
Quote from: Mican on November 08, 2014, 03: PM
I don't have interest in UKIP, I simply asked a question to which there is no real answer. Another would be politician who answers a question with a question.
Mican for some one who doesn't have an interest in UKIP you don't half get stroppy when any negative comments are made about them. Are you like that with all parties?
I certainly am. Now can you tell me what the negative comments are that I get stroppy about? When can we expect an answer to the "question" or are you going to continue sidestepping. Thank you Doris you are a breath of fresh air, but don't be surprised if you get called names, Ukip or labour party plant springs to mine.
Thank you Doris your'e an angel. Now to go back to the start of all this, I had noticed on numerous occasions on different posts the subject of UKIP kept coming up for some reason or other, so I asked a simple question, "why such interest in UKIP". Now that is not rocket science but judging by some of the replies that came back you would have thought it was. I have no doubt that if i had asked a question such as, "what is the benefit of Einsteis theory of relativity in todays society", I may actually have got some answers, no doubt one of them would have been from Doris, bless her, but if the question had been "what was the last episode of Jackanory about" I have no doubt I would have been inundated with answers. Hope this clears up any confusion anyone had. Just off for a pint.
The answer Mican is quite simple.
The only interest in Ukip for Hartlepool people is if Ukip can be used as a vehicle to get rid of our MP.
An additional interest is can Ukip help to reduce the Labour majority in the Council Chamber? At the moment they are not showing any promise in this aim. The current Ukip Councillors are totally unconvincing and Ukip supporters seem to be going out of their way to alienate possible voters. All the opposition parties will have to work together to achieve this. So come on PHF, Ukip, Independents and, yes, the Tories. Bury the hatchets, become a true opposition and work together for the benefit of the Town and its people.
Apart from that I don't think that there is any interest in Ukip in Hartlepool.
I suspect that nationally the interest is the same. Can Ukip be used to give the establishment a kick up the backside?
Quote from: Hartlepudlion on November 08, 2014, 08: PMSo come on PHF, Ukip, Independents and, yes, the Tories. Bury the hatchets, become a true opposition and work together for the benefit of the Town and its people.
Lets take them one at a time......(in my opinion....lol).....
PHF was apparently set up to bring together all the opposition councillors, regardless of their national politics, to provide a real alternative to Labour in Hartlepool. Sadly they appear to have very quickly degenerated into in fighting and ego battles. I predict they will lose Lilley and Dawkins in 2015 and Riddle will allow his ego to convince him to stand as MP in 2015 even though he has no chance. PHF will be just a memory in two years time. The chances of Riddle allowing what's left of PHF to co-operate with any other group are zero unless its under Riddle's "leadership".
UKIP must fight every seat in 2015 as they are really only interested in the EU and stand in local elections only to raise the profile of the party nationally. They don't have a clue about what it means to be a local councillor, as the two who were elected last time have shown. The chances of them co-operating with any other group are zero.
The independents who were willing to put Hartlepool before their own egos and ambitions joined PHF. Those who stayed on their own showed theior true colours, ME ME ME. The chances of them co-operating with any other group are zero.
The Tories are quite happy with their three seats in Rural West. The boundary changes when the council went down to 33 seats more or less guarenteed they will never lose those three but have no real chance of ever getting more than three. The chances of them co-operating with anyone other than the ruling labour group are zero. After all, supporting labour get the Tories their snouts in the trough but opposing labour will lose them their chance to fil theor boots.
So all in all I predict the usual scramble with Labour picking up the pieces and remaining in power with around 30 to 35% of the total vote!
Mican I am responsible for a lot of the recent discussion regarding UKIP as a result of the "Alternatives to UKIP" thread. I am a genuine floating voter - voting for the candidate personally but also with some consideration of their party agenda (if they belong to one). I am not a plant from any Party and I do wish to see change in Hartlepool. I do not want the vote to be split between alternatives with the result that there is no change to the status quo. I have only posted a couple of times to date. I do not want any more discussion on alternatives to UKIP as a result of this post - I can see people are tiring of it. I probably didn't express the original post very clearly but I was concerned on two counts:
1. From reading posts there seemed to be an assumption that UKIP would easily take the election in May. However, for all the press exposure (good and bad) UKIP has very little elected 'presence' In a general election, rather than a by-election, I think voters behave more conservatively. I see /hear no evidence of a wave of UKIP support in the town generally. I am disheartened by the posts noting that the UKIP Councillors have nothing to say and I would like Phil to take about the economic regeneration of Hartlepool rather than get on the bandwagon of the hospital. I genuinely wondered if we knew of any other candidates being selected to stand.
2. UKIP are famous for their headline policy of non EU /immigrants but I knew little of their other policies. A new party has to expect scrutiny because they are unknown. We can usually guess the policies of the established parties or those policies are usually easily found. The headlines in the press were disturbing and of course not all true. However, there was enough to concern me. If you do not agree with the policies of UKIP it is a moral dilemma as to whether to vote for them regardless just to effect a change.
Prior to the election I would like to see some kind of public debate in Hartlepool between the candidates - as can be seen on TV with the party leaders.
Mican - I hope that goes part way to answering your question.
Just out of interest. Who is fighting and where are the ego battles in PHF?
As far as I can see, PHF and a couple of independent councillors are the only real opposition to the current cartel which we appear to be presented with. Voting tory in Hartlepool is a complete waste of time, they might as well vote labour. The liberal vote is dead thanks to the current coalition.
In comparison, the Labour group are so used to not being challenged, they appear to be paralysed by their own inertia brought about by years of not being questioned.
The behaviour of the labour group is thoroughly lamentable and I think that more people are becoming aware of this. The EU elections, the labour group came within 300 votes of losing their majority. Extrapolating those figures, with an approximate 35% turnout at those elections, assuming a population of 90,000, that represents a majority of 0.95%. Which is not really convincing in my book.
Taking into account the general election will have a larger turnout, and the amount of public condemnation of our MP and labour controlled council. The number of disaffected labour voters is potentially huge. In come UKIP, resonating with the electorate (see by-election results) and we have a situation where a safe labour seat of some 50 years standing is under threat.
I just hope that when it comes to the local election vote, the electorate see that voting UKIP will do nothing at all locally. Both the UKIP councillors have been silent in council since being elected. Voting labour merely maintains the status quo. So PHF would seem the common sense alternative.
"PHF was apparently set up to bring together all the opposition councillors, regardless of their national politics, to provide a real alternative to Labour in Hartlepool. Sadly they appear to have very quickly degenerated into in fighting and ego battles. I predict they will lose Lilley and Dawkins in 2015 and Riddle will allow his ego to convince him to stand as MP in 2015 even though he has no chance. PHF will be just a memory in two years time. The chances of Riddle allowing what's left of PHF to co-operate with any other group are zero unless its under Riddle's "leadership".
oh hang on....this is all starting to sound a bit familiar. Talk of in-fighting and egos and Riddle's insatiable Westminster ambitions before invading Poland.... what user name will you have next week?
QuoteI predict they will lose Lilley and Dawkins in 2015 and Riddle will allow his ego to convince him to stand as MP in 2015 even though he has no chance.
I'm really not sure where the perception that I have a big ego comes from.
My wife assures me it's of an average size...
Quote from: one direction on November 08, 2014, 10: AM
Mican, if you want adult, political debate then you are wasting your time on message boards like this. Treat them as what they are, a wsy of raising tge blood pressure of the fanatics who cant see any validity in a viewpoint other than their own. Reasoned argument can never reach those with true faith who know they are right and everyone else is doomed to burn in hell fire unlessvthey accept the truth and come into the light. If you want an example of how twisted these people can be just look at the group calling themselves "hope not hate" a very laudable aim you might say? Sadly they seem to me to consider every wiewpoint other than their own to be unacceptable and some of their comments and tactics aimed at groups they accuse of being hateful are actually verging on the facist. They are like people who think you can bomb your way to peace?
OD still waiting on the examples about hope not hate !
As i said above "sadly they SEEM TO ME to . . " my opinion lol if I'd said "sadly thet ARE. . . " then that would be another story lol
Quote from: one direction on November 09, 2014, 02: PM
As i said above "sadly they SEEM TO ME to . . " my opinion lol if I'd said "sadly thet ARE. . . " then that would be another story lol
Hi OD I am not trying to catch you out or anything and saw that you did say it seemed to you. What I am asking is why did it seem that way to you what what caused you to take that view point of Hope not Hate ? It's a broad sweeping statement and needs some clarification. Look forward to reading it.
Why don't you all just look at any party's manifesto, that will give you their direction of travel, then base that manifesto on what is now history Labour were in power for 13 years up to 2010 the council from then, as far as I'm concerned their is only one other who has a manifesto UKIP. A manifesto shows it could form a Government, and when you consider governments change but the civil servants don't so continues continuity, as an example do you think Ronald Reagan could run america without the senate, in Hartlepool you have independants and PHF they have no chance of forming a government. it matters not therefore who you vote for people seem to be fed up with the 3 old tired partys , Hartlepool may well hang another monkey or put a man in a mokey suit in charge hey it's YOUR choice and in the elections in May it's YOUR choice
Keep going Beanz I honestly believe you are doing a great job for UKIP.
I think I have learned more about UKIP from you than I have from any other person and I am grateful to you for the insight you bring to this forum. Your short but interesting explanations of historical matters I have found to be extremely thought provoking. I look forward to reading more of your posts between now and the general and local elections. In fact given your obvious understanding of politics I think you should consider standing for the council I am certain somebody will vote for you, I would give it consideration.
Thanks again.
Hope Not Hate were set up by a splinter group from "Searchlight" which was a left wing organisation with roots back to the Labour party in the 1960's. (http://www.searchlightmagazine.com). It is funded primarily by several Trade Unions and supported by the Daily Mirror. So I think you can see the average member is going to be left of centre?
Hope Not Hate's decision to attack UKIP was based on a poll of its own members asking "UKIP is surging in the polls and could well come first in next year's European Elections. How should HOPE not hate respond? Should we begin to oppose them or should we stick to extremist groups like the BNP?" (http://www.thecommentator.com/article/2934/_hope_not_hate_can_t_be_serious_with_this_ukip_question_can_it) So It was rather like asking a turkey if it wanted to vote against Christmas?
Hope not hate is, in my opinion, just another extreme left wing group hiding behind a charitable status and a catchy title, after all who can disagree with hope not hate as a sentiment. However, as with all these things you need to look below the surface. If the Greens attack someone over failure to support renewable energy then you know its in the Green's vested interest to promote fear of global warming (remember that? We were all going to be under water by 2020! Now its "climate change") since they need the votes it brings. If Hope not Hate attack UKIP then is it because UKIP is an extremist right wing organisation? or because "UKIP is surging in the polls and could well come first in next year's European Elections" and so is a threat to all those nice, acceptasble Labour MEPs who could lose their seats on the EU Gravy train?
Right thanks for that One direction, I don't see how it supports the comments you made in your original post.
What do you think they should do OD do you think best not to oppose neo facist groups and ignore the lessons of history particularly circa 1930 Germany?
They are supported by several trade unions and the daily mirror, that must make them dangerous then right? What's your views on ex BNP & NF activist being prominent in UKIP ? Does that not worry you and the freedoms you take for granted ? Are you worried that Farage has links with extreme fascists in Europe? If you are why condemn organisations who oppose and expose racists ?
Would you put Show Racism the Red Card in the Same league as Hope not Hate not Hate, no pun intended Show racism the red card involves itself mainly in football as it was started by footballers to drive racism out of football.?
The thing is PP I don't think UKIP are a fascist organisation where as you are obviously coming from the viewpoint thst they are? As regards who UKIP deal with in the EU Parliament then that's called politics, rather like the Tories and lib dems for the past four years and the lib-lab pact of several governments ago. I personally think organisations like the BNP and Hope not Hate are just two sides of the same coin, both think anyone who disagrees with them are idiots who don't deserve the rights and freedoms they are insisting for themselves. As regards racism in football, this brings us right round full circle. I don't know if it was you or MK1 or one of the other posters who said because UKIP were fighting racism within its ranks by expelling racist then it proves they are racist. Applying the same logic to football then any club participating in show racism the red card is admiring it is a racist Club otherwise it wouldn't need to join. So say I think you are not going to accept anything I say abd similar I think you are wrong and I doubt we will ever agree
OD is that the only answer you have? "Two sides of same coin" and " gone full circle" ? How the hell can they be two sides of the same coin FFS?
You call alliances with extreme right wing organisations and individuals as "politics" oh well what was I worrying about its only politics and ordinary people don't like politics so we will look the other way.
These people deny the holocaust took place, is that politics too OD was the rise of Hitlers dictatorship just politics too ? Nothing to get fussed about there.
But don't pass off opinion for fact OD.
Quote from: Party Pooper on November 09, 2014, 02: PM
Quote from: one direction on November 09, 2014, 02: PM
As i said above "sadly they SEEM TO ME to . . " my opinion lol if I'd said "sadly thet ARE. . . " then that would be another story lol
Hi OD I am not trying to catch you out or anything and saw that you did say it seemed to you. What I am asking is why did it seem that way to you what what caused you to take that view point of Hope not Hate ? It's a broad sweeping statement and needs some clarification. Look forward to reading it.
Look forward to seeing your answer to the "question" or are you simply going to continue to sidestep? What do you think Doris. x
Quote form partypooper on the national thread.
"Why haven't you answered about your leader Nigel the rich man Farage with his links to Facist Holocaust deniers and whether you agree with them!"
You will have noticed he keeps making references to: facists, holocaust etc. What this has got to do with the "question" is beyond me, perhaps when he actually answers the "question" in fact any ******** "question" we might have an idea what he is on about. What do you think Doris. x
I have answered it, just because you dont like what i say doesnt change my answer. I find it very amusing when people swallow whole the opinions of peoolecthey agree with but dintvhavevtge intellectual honesty to even consider any contra opinions or views. Must be my university education conung out again, but i was taught to question things and apply logical thought, not just blindly believe everything i was told. I dontbknow who said it but the quoge was something like "dont confuse me with new infofmation, i know what i know abd nothing will make me change my mind" spot on as far as mostbpeople on here!
Quote from: one direction on November 10, 2014, 12: AM
I have answered it, just because you dont like what i say doesnt change my answer. I find it very amusing when people swallow whole the opinions of peoolecthey agree with but dintvhavevtge intellectual honesty to even consider any contra opinions or views. Must be my university education conung out again, but i was taught to question things and apply logical thought, not just blindly believe everything i was told. I dontbknow who said it but the quoge was something like "dont confuse me with new infofmation, i know what i know abd nothing will make me change my mind" spot on as far as mostbpeople on here!
Did you not go to university the day they did spelling? My grandfather always said never give strong alcohol to weak minds. Maybe you should leave the keyboard alone when you have had a half pint.
You know the veneer of being the voice of reasoned opinion is a very thin one? Your posts display a total hatred for anything left of centre indeed centre is too left for you. Just keep off the drink when typing Mr Reasonable or you might p**s on your jack boots!
This is why One Direction or is it Kipperdip made the unsubstantiated comments about Hope not Hate do as One Direction ( the voice of considered reason ) asks read the link and make up your own mind.
Reades may see a familiar tactic when reading the twitter exchange between someone asking about UKIP workers policy and UKIP s David Coburn.
YOU NEED TO READ THIS
http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/ukip/ukip-business-spokesman-wants-to-abolish-workers-rights-3698
Quote from Partypooper:
Did you not go to university the day they did spelling?
Quote from Partypooper:
Reades may see a familiar tactic.
Oh dear is this why you keep sidestepping the "question".
Quote from: Mican on November 10, 2014, 10: AM
Quote from Partypooper:
Did you not go to university the day they did spelling?
Quote from Partypooper:
Reades may see a familiar tactic.
Oh dear is this why you keep sidestepping the "question".
Point out were I brag about having a university degree !
Have you read the link below yet Mican?
http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/ukip/ukip-business-spokesman-wants-to-abolish-workers-rights-3698
Quote from: Party Pooper on November 10, 2014, 10: AM
Quote from: Mican on November 10, 2014, 10: AM
Quote from Partypooper:
Did you not go to university the day they did spelling?
Quote from Partypooper:
Reades may see a familiar tactic.
Oh dear is this why you keep sidestepping the "question".
Point out were I brag about having a university degree !
I didn't say you brag about a degree, try reading it again, these were your comments, no one elses
Have you read the link below yet Mican?
http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/ukip/ukip-business-spokesman-wants-to-abolish-workers-rights-3698
Certainly have, suggest you read it again then tell me again where it says "Ukip-business-spokesman-wants-to-abolish-workers-rights". Now about the "question".
You know what Mica, One Direction and Kipperdip, having read extensively and spoken to many people about the subject my opinion with substaintial evidence based facts is that; the Hartlepool Labour Party and UKIP are two sides of the same coin. their similarities are staggering, look at the facts;
Neither of them support wokers rights see MRA and http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/ukip/ukip-business-spokesman-wants-to-abolish-workers-rights-3698
They favour greedy business men see Clr Craney and the above link
They will not answer direct questions see the entire UKIP and Clr CAB
So good people of this parish consider if UKIP really are different from what you have already.!
Don't trust any of them.
It is understandable that you are backing up your fellow UKIP member who posts under the name of One Direction, it is he/ she would brags about the university education. Now then that is familiar if you read this you will see it is not uncommon in UKIP to lie about educational qualifications
http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/ukip/ukip-business-spokesman-wants-to-abolish-workers-rights-3698
I am not a member of UKIP lol, the card in my wallet (now expired) has a red rose on it, much to my chagrin! Neither do i need to inflate my academic status, bachelor and masters degrees are quite enough for me!
Time to call an end to this, I think PP has been given enough rope and I don't think it is fair to allow him to make himself lokk any sillier with his posts.
To finish let me introduce the new anti UKIP protest group:
The Sidesteppers
"Why answer a simple question when you can put a link to a story and take it in a new direction, then blame it all on UKIP"
sidesteppers?
Well if it's good enough for UKIP why not?
Farage,
Broughton
Coburn
Bloom
It's your instructions not to answer question to avoid being exposed.
Still when you are the government no questions will allowed to be asked right?
My educated friend I must thanks you for pointing me in the direction of Hope not Hate, an organisation I had heard of before but hadn't bothered to look more closely at them. Thank you I support any body which opposes racism why don't you?
Incidentally is it only coincidence that we don't read anything from you or Mican for a whole then when one of you post the other posts a few minutes later, some might think you're the same person or are collaborating. Still it might just be me I never went to university you know.
hey Mican see if you and your party can sidestep this one. UKIP want to get rid of unnecessary regulations including those governing asbestos. Now I am all for freedom so I won't interfere if you or Nigel want to take the risk yourselves but I am not happy that you want to subject the rest of us to the dangers so that the company owners make more money.
Anyone on site have relatives who have suffered form mesothelioma ? Anyone who has happy with the UKIP proposal.?
http://asbestosvictimadvice.com/2014/05/ukip-to-reclassify-asbestos-cement-as-non-hazardous-waste-for-farmers-in-2014-manifesto/
Give us all your words of wisdom Mican, OD do that two sides of the same coin routine.
I have no idea who Mican is but its definitely not me! Ah butvi would say that wouldn't I? Keep it up PP I enjoy a good laugh when you get things so wrong, which lets face it is most of the time! I support lots of orgamisations but dont support organisations hiding covert political agendas under politically correct sound bites. just out of interest PP, When did you stop beating up your wife? Looking forward to your answer! ;)
Can I remind everyone about my post reply no. 125.
"so I asked a simple question, "why such interest in UKIP". Now that is not rocket science but judging by some of the replies that came back you would have thought it was".
Sadly it seems no one seemed to read it and once again it reverted to the equivalent of a Facebook face off, with once again the childlike habit of putting links to a story, some of which were no longer available, add to this other childlike comments such as "your leader" and "you must be a plant" coming to the fore in an attempt to answer the "question". Perhaps if people who have answered take a look at the "question" then at their replies to the "question" then come back and tell me you consider yourself mature and intelligent. It would seem that others have noticed how ridiculous this has become, take a look at Hartlepudlion and Monkeys Mates posts.
Party Pooper, still waiting for an answer to my question about when did you stop beating up your wife? Applying the same logic that you (and others on this forum use), that if you fail to respond to a question then it must be because you have something to hide then the assumption must be that you haven't stopped beating her and asault her on a regular basis? Would you say that's a fair assumption?
Party Pooper might also have a life outside of being a keyboard warrior. He/she might have flown off to Mexico like what other posh people do. Or he/she might have just realised that there is little point in arguing the toss.
Party pooper may well have a life outside the internet but if he demands answers to his questions then maybe its only fair that he answers questions asked of him? Fair and reasonable sadly being two things in short supply on any internet forum. I'm not honestly expecting an answer to my rediculous question but was just illustrating the tactic he has used to "prove" UKIP are racist. Ask a question that implies something and then when they reply insinuate theremust be some truth in it or why deny it? Alternatively no answer proves that its true because that means it cant be answered! Damned if you do and damned if you dont! Thank you for the information about his trip to Mexico, possibly taken his wife there for plastic surgery to cover her poor battered face? Shame Party Pooper has to have Lord Elpus answering for him! Maybe they are the same person? Another allegation that flies about quite frequently? Maybe i am party pooper and arguing with myself? Or am i Harry, Ray, a SCAB? Who knows :)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-30140747
I wonder if the people who voted UKIP were holding their noses.
Lets hope Keith Fisher stands in Hartlepool as a SOH candidate
This is the same Keith Fisher who while a councillor reportedly sold out to the Labour Group? I'm sure the Hartlepool Labour party would love to see him stand in May, it would guarentee their boy gets re-elected.