HartlepoolPost Forum

Admins/Mods - Am posting this here because it's political, if it's on the wrong board please feel free to move it to the right place.  I feel it's relevant here given that we have elections coming up.

This one is inspired by a conversation I had the other day.  I was talking to a Newcastle United fan and he was generally bemoaning the fact that money had ruined football.  In general terms he thought it was obscene that the likes of Wayne Rooney was getting paid £300,000 a week and that Mike Ashley was using Newcastle United to make money for himself and had no interest in the footballing success of the club beyond that.

I asked what he was doing about it, he didn't have a clue what I was on about.  So I asked if he held a season ticket at Newcastle or a Sky Sports subscription to watch football.  Yes to both.

So I said OK, cancel both, don't go to another game, buy another shirt or any other merchandise until things change.  Encourage others to do the same.  The response: 

"Ye cannot dee that, ye've gotta support ya team man."

I asked if he'd protested in any way, he said they often chanted anti Ashley slogans at games and once turned their back on the field before a game....so he pays the man he hates his hard cash to shout abuse at him.

So I explained that he was as responsible for the ruin of the game as Rooney, Ashley and all of the others fleecing it.  He looked utterly scoobied.

So in really simple terms I went on.  What do you think would happen if everyone just refused to renew their tickets and cancelled their Sky Sports?

Blank look.....

OK this is what would happen, cash flowing into the club would stop from ticket and merchandise sale.  Advertisers and other sponsors would stop pumping money into a club where attendances disappeared because there would be no audience to see the ads.

If everyone did this across all football clubs then the profit in it would disappear for these deep pocketed money men.

Same with Sky, if everyone stopped their subscriptions they'd begin to get the message, stop showing football and more importantly stop pumping their money into the game.

Once the cash into the game dried up the obscene amounts of money being paid to players would stop, then as a result the game would be played only by those who genuinely enjoyed the game, had a passion for it and as a result would probably be better at it.  It would probably be more watchable without huge sums of money at stake and therefore better for fans.  In short ultimate the power is with the punter, as long as they act together.

This is much the same as my view on voting.....

Replace players with MP's, paid obscene amounts of money for doing very little and to be honest, most probably couldn't give a crap about what they do as long as the money keeps flowing.

Replace teams with political parties with supporters who will blindly follow their team regardless of how badly they let them down over and over again.

Replace owners and sponsors with party donors and lobbyists who on the face of it are also supporters pumping money into their party for the love of it, but in reality they expect that money to be repaid several times over, it's an investment.  You put money in so that MP's change laws to make you profits or vote on things in a way that protects your interests.

The currency paid by the supporters?  Your vote!  None of this can work without the votes.

Voting validates the whole thing, they use the vote to say everything they're doing they do it in your name.  So like football what we need to do as a nation, if we want to fix our political system and get back people who will only represent us because they believe it to be the right thing to do and to protect the interests of the people they represent, is very, very simple.

STOP VOTING! Do it now, encourage others to do the same.....It will only work if everyone joins in!

This is a cut and paste lifted complete  from Blackwood's Blog.

Is it not the custom to link such items?

I cut and pasted from my original word document rather than include images etc

Wasn't sure if linking to Harry's blog was frowned upon in here since he's banned.....How to post this was what I was asking how to contact the mods for.

Don't vote and nothing will happen at all... nothing will change because there'll always be a knot of polical fundamentalists who 'll welcome it with open arms.... and the non voters  will be dismissed as politically inert.........

 ;)

What's voting changed in Hartlepool recently?

Not voting will never be adopted wholesale, just as compulsory voting will lead to widespread manipulation of the terminally stupid.

Adding a 'none of the above' & a 'I don't understand all of this so just put mine on the pile with the one who looks most needy' option would be best.

Not voting has been the problem..... the same minority of non thinkers voting f:or the same clowns.... while the majority moan but  do nothing about it.. The non voters have always been with us..they're the problem.
For someone who appears to take a unhealthy interest in the business .....you advocate its oblivion.... but only selective parts of it
Odd.;

"and get back people who will only represent us because they believe it to be the right thing to do and to protect the interests of the people they represent, is very, very simple."
Who decides who these people are? And how do we choose between them?
Voting perhaps?

NOT voting ISN'T the problem.

For 90+ years, since the 1st World War and the sufragette movement we have all been made to feel guilty about 'not voting'

Our parents, our grandparents and now us. "Your grandad died fighting for freedom and against fascists", your Grandma fought for the vote. YOU SHOULD VOTE, YOU HAVE TO VOTE

Well the only problem with that is that people HAVE been voting (less and less and less) for all those years and, apart from the illusion of our standard of living) politicians, top civil servants and the richest 5% of society have been filling their boots and have become richer and richer and richer... and worse than that, they laugh at the rest of us, through the protection they receive from the upper echilon of the police force (remember, it's not a service, it's a force) and their friends in the judiciary

For the common man, despite the heroic fights of trade unions, life has become hardly a jot different and the salary / wealth differential has become much. much wider and with the current coalition and the previous Labour governments, this is only being strengthened. Red / Blue or Yellow, all political colours are the same.

Remember when there was a clerk at the top of the town hall tree who earned about 20% more than the rest of the staff? Now we have CEO's and Chief Execs who, on average, earn 500-700% more than 'the common man'

THEY ARE all in it together, but they're telling us that WE are all in it together

So, basically, voting has changed nothing for the common man, and more and more people are realising that. If voting changed anything, they would ban it. They allow voting, because it gives the illusion of democracy and freedom of speech.

Well, I for one, and many more of us in Hartlepool and across the UK will NOT be voting for the status quo, 'their' time is up, and it may end ugly, but change is coming, just not the way most of you are expecting it.

Well you got that one right Dowager in that they're ALL at it:

http://order-order.com/2011/08/10/dave-prentis-is-a-tax-hypocrite/

Still waiting to hear how this new order of leaders is going to be chosen, and how they intend to carry us all to the sunlit uplands of paradise.
What happens after everyone has refused to vote?
Will the new leaders never be changed?
Will some people be more equal than others?
Will we all work for the greater good of the "farm"?
The people on this forum who shout loudest about their questions not being answered need to start answering a few themselves.

It doesn't matter how you choose whatever the new order of leadership to be until the current corrupt system is broken.

Voting at the minute is like wanting to travel to Edinburgh but only having the option of a train ticket to London Kings Cross for £300 or train ticket to London St Pancreas for £310. Both destinations are less than 200 metres apart and totally in the opposite way in which you need to go.

Another question someone floated a couple of weeks ago when discussing this was "Why do people feel the need to be ruled/governed?" I'm not 100% in agreement with not having any government but it's a valid question.

As for the war generation guilt trip, over the last 10 years, the few remaining people of that generation I've spoken to have consistently told me that if there was a box for "None of the above" they'd tick it. THAT ALONE tells you everything about that myth.

So what non voting does is exactly that, it says none of the above.

At the minute low turnouts go unreported. But what if all the non voters, on polling day decided to actively state their non-adherence to the corrupt system of voting? I bet they'd outnumber the voters and guess what? That means that the lie of having a majority mandate to rule would be exposed.

Just some food for thought.

Quote from: dowager on April 08, 2014, 10: AM
NOT voting ISN'T the problem.

For 90+ years, since the 1st World War and the sufragette movement we have all been made to feel guilty about 'not voting'

Our parents, our grandparents and now us. "Your grandad died fighting for freedom and against fascists", your Grandma fought for the vote. YOU SHOULD VOTE, YOU HAVE TO VOTE

Well the only problem with that is that people HAVE been voting (less and less and less) for all those years and, apart from the illusion of our standard of living) politicians, top civil servants and the richest 5% of society have been filling their boots and have become richer and richer and richer... and worse than that, they laugh at the rest of us, through the protection they receive from the upper echilon of the police force (remember, it's not a service, it's a force) and their friends in the judiciary

For the common man, despite the heroic fights of trade unions, life has become hardly a jot different and the salary / wealth differential has become much. much wider and with the current coalition and the previous Labour governments, this is only being strengthened. Red / Blue or Yellow, all political colours are the same.

Remember when there was a clerk at the top of the town hall tree who earned about 20% more than the rest of the staff? Now we have CEO's and Chief Execs who, on average, earn 500-700% more than 'the common man'

THEY ARE all in it together, but they're telling us that WE are all in it together

So, basically, voting has changed nothing for the common man, and more and more people are realising that. If voting changed anything, they would ban it. They allow voting, because it gives the illusion of democracy and freedom of speech.

Well, I for one, and many more of us in Hartlepool and across the UK will NOT be voting for the status quo, 'their' time is up, and it may end ugly, but change is coming, just not the way most of you are expecting it.

So to sum up.....you are gonna change the world by doing.....er, nothing...hmmmm.... and by not voting  you will only consolidate the status quo.

Riddler,

Incorrect. You confuse not voting with apathy.

Not voting and staying silent does nothing.

I don't intend to be silent, I will seek out practical ways of undermining those in power who abuse it. I will present constant challenge to those elected officials to ensure the things they do are questioned. If they are able to successfully justify themselves then they should not fear the challenge.

The same applies to those who announce an intention to stand for election. I'll confidently state here and now if I'm satisfied with the honesty, integrity and competence of a candidate to effect positive change either in local elections or a full scale general election I will be one of the first at the polling booths. Until then, the search goes on.

Quote from: Jamescampbell78 on April 08, 2014, 05: PM


I don't intend to be silent, I will seek out practical ways of undermining those in power who abuse it. I will present constant challenge to those elected officials to ensure the things they do are questioned. If they are able to successfully justify themselves then they should not fear the challenge.

Running around like a headless chicken picking a fight with anyone silly enough to engage with you 'aint going to get you power.
You might as well join the 'establishment'  because your way hands everything to them on a plate. This  mindless 'search for the truth' is just dog-whistle politics and  banal in the extreme.
There are always going to be those out to wreck the system. Always have been and always will be but  you are never going to  bring down the sytem. By all means dream about it but you (as a group) are tolerated because you are no real threat to anyone.
I think the benefits of 'democracy' are much overated. Most people could not care less who  ends up in power as long as they are not extreme. Far left or right will never win through a ballot. Neither will those who want to pull everything down.  The mere fact you are such a small group means you have to go for armageddon because no sane person would vote you in.

Believe what you like Michael lad.

I'm not all about just talk, there's some action to back it up.

FYI: Telling me I cannot do something makes me more determined. I've a rather impressive record on proving people wrong when they say I can't do something. One of my favourite quotes, that I totally believe in is:

"One of the greatest pleasures in life is to do the things other people say you cannot do."

Drop me a line when you bring the whole system crashing down because I am very busy and might miss it..............

Quote from: Jamescampbell78 on April 08, 2014, 07: PM


I'm not all about just talk, there's some action to back it up

Care to explain that bit for me?

Watch this space ;)

QuoteThis is a cut and paste lifted complete  from Blackwood's Blog.

Is it not the custom to link such items?

Just re-read this and realised the link to Harry's blog from the Hartlepool Post front page has even gone.  Hartlepool Post was praising that blog a few weeks ago.

He must be doing something right, went through 25,000 unique page views today.  That's genuine and not some 40k Facebook "reaches" too.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10152324923414976&set=a.498893539975.301876.514879975&type=1&relevant_count=1

Yeah I'm good James. Thanks.

Quote from: Jamescampbell78 on April 08, 2014, 05: PM
Riddler,

Incorrect. You confuse not voting with apathy.

Not voting and staying silent does nothing.

I don't intend to be silent, I will seek out practical ways of undermining those in power who abuse it.

All very admirable....however.....on the evidence of this board, all I've read is your obsessive pursuit of one infdvidual....... it might help your credibility if you spread your cpntempt over the full political spectrum who so far remain unscathed and safe from your attention.

QuoteHe must be doing something right, went through 25,000 unique page views today.  That's genuine and not some 40k Facebook "reaches" too.

James, look at the counter graph on the blog you mention. No one was reading it until he blogged about me and Derek Bilton, and no one is reading it now.

There's a huge spike in readers in the days around that stupid article, then it tails off. There's also more comments on that article than all the others put together.

Mostly by Derek's friends.  ;) The ones likely to help him get elected.

I thought you didn't delete posts from the PHF Facebook page?

I deleted yours Shane. Make no mistake about that. Given that you called me a liar twice publicly two days before an election is called, you're lucky all I did was delete them.

So gloves are off now. You know that.

I hope what you've been promised to stand in Hart purely as a 'vote splitter' is worth it fella.

What was it? First dibs on a seat on Rural West when the time comes?

QuoteAll very admirable....howeve r.....on the evidence of this board, all I've read is your obsessive pursuit of one infdvidual....... it might help your credibility if you spread your cpntempt over the full political spectrum who so far remain unscathed and safe from your attention.

I do, regularly.  It's just you only tend to see what I'm up to on here.

In fact I'm fairly certain Shane will have seen some of the digs I have at the wider political spectrum given that he's one of the few who read what I post outside of this particular forum.  I've no doubt that at some point I'll offend Shane with my views given that I think ALL political parties local and national are part of the problem.  Where you have parties you have people doing something to align with another persons aims and not purely because it's "the right thing to do".

Does my original post on this thread not show a contempt of the entire political spectrum?

So link us to where we can see you pursuing a named  politician the way you have D Riddle.
A link to an attack on a named local councillor?
Do you have a link to a 36 page attack on  a Tory or Labour local politician?

Actually David I stated that part of the statement made by the 'admin' of the PHf Facebook page was a lie. It was, I proved it be be, hence you changing the subject then deleting it.

I stated there and I'll state here that what you wrote is factually incorrect and loaded with spin. Anybody who read the posts I made will have seen that I was very civil in my posts and answered each of the false allegation made against me/the conservative group calmly and respectfully, since it is 'your' Facebook page after all.

You can shout "the gloves are off" and falsely claim that I am standing as a "vote splitter" all you want. It won't be true however much you tell yourself it.
I've continued to campaign in and around the Hart ward since I last stood for election there. It is a ward I know, I know the many of the people and, once our current house is sold, is the ward I will reside in. And I'll be campaigning there long after PHF have lost there and jump on another bandwagon elsewhere in town as they did with the gypsy camp.

Quoteonce our current house is sold, is the ward I will reside in.

Anyone from anywhere in the town could make such a statement Shane. Don't bother talking to me about spin. Not after the tory leaflet of lies put out in the manor by election by your lot. Remember that? The one even Chief Solicitor for HBC Peter Devlin essentially stated was bo#L@cks.

For someone so dedicated to the people of Hart, I could have sworn you were prostituting yourself to the residents of Seaton not 18 months ago.... http://www.hartlepool.gov.uk/downloads/file/9084/result_of_poll

QuoteDo you have a link to a 36 page attack on  a Tory or Labour local politician?

ADMIN/MOD - I have an answer to this but the last time I posted on this topic I ended up on pre-mod....Now I have this answer ready to post but I WILL NOT hit send if you think this is going to go over old ground and pre-mod me.

Quote from: SRMoore on April 08, 2014, 11: PM
I've continued to campaign in and around the Hart ward since I last stood for election there. It is a ward I know, I know the many of the people and, once our current house is sold, is the ward I will reside in. And I'll be campaigning there long after PHF have lost there and jump on another bandwagon elsewhere in town as they did with the gypsy camp.

You'd stand more chance of winning a vote if your party told Wells to join the party he actually supports.

Hartlepool Conservatives are Labour with blue ties and I'll never believe otherwise while Wells has his seat.

Quote from: Jamescampbell78 on April 09, 2014, 12: AM


ADMIN/MOD - I have an answer to this but the last time I posted on this topic I ended up on pre-mod....Now I have this answer ready to post but I WILL NOT hit send if you think this is going to go over old ground and pre-mod me.

Just post the links that show how you are even handed and not concentrating on one party/individual.
No need to  give a long winded answer, the links will suffice.

Quote from: Pwilson on April 09, 2014, 12: AM


You'd stand more chance of winning a vote if your party told Wells to join the party he actually supports.

Hartlepool Conservatives are Labour with blue ties and I'll never believe otherwise while Wells has his seat.

Wells has taken control of the Tory Group for his own personal advancement. His only concern is to  control planning in the town and he will say or do anything the SCABs tell  him. . Shane knows this just as well as everyone else but party loyalty prevents him saying it out loud.  There is no Tory Party in Hartlepool. 

Quote from: DRiddle on April 09, 2014, 12: AM

Quoteonce our current house is sold, is the ward I will reside in.

Anyone from anywhere in the town could make such a statement Shane. Don't bother talking to me about spin. Not after the tory leaflet of lies put out in the manor by election by your lot. Remember that? The one even Chief Solicitor for HBC Peter Devlin essentially stated was bo#L@cks.

For someone so dedicated to the people of Hart, I could have sworn you were prostituting yourself to the residents of Seaton not 18 months ago.... http://www.hartlepool.gov.uk/downloads/file/9084/result_of_poll

Once again you shy away from the valid points being made in the original discussion and attempt to deflect the attention elsewhere, David.

I'll happy answer your accusations one at a time. I have nothing to fear in giving open and honest answers.

1. Anybody could indeed claim they are likely to move to the ward, you yourself could too. The reality is however that in the case of me and my family it is true.
When Suzzi and I looked at buying our first family home there wasn't much available to us that fell within our needs and price range. We settled on two homes, both built by Persimmon Homes and both the same style, a Kingswood home. One was in Sedgewick Park and the other in Bishop Cuthbert. (The latter costing £30k more than the former).
Just before we were due to purchase the one in Bishop Cuthbert my house were cut at work and it would have been financially irresponsible for us to mortgage ourselves to the hilt so we chose the same style house in Sedgewick Close.
My wife has set her heart on a larger home in Bishop Cuthbert and anyone who knows her/us will tell you that I will not argue with her.

2. The "lies" you refer to on the manor house leaflet was not referred to as "bollocks" by Peter Devlin. You can continue to use this as the excuse for the loss of this election but the reality is that you cannot just turn up to a ward a few weeks before full of hell and expect to win.
I won't comment further on this as I am aware that it will move ua away from the actual discussion we are having here, so forgive me for not playing into your trap.

3. "Prostituting myself" in Seaton eh? As I explained to you earlier today when you sent me a text message, I stood in Seaton as a last minute stand in as our previous candidate Jean fell ill during the nomination period. If, on the slim chance I had been elected you can bet your bottom dollar I'd have given everything to represent the people there. Much more than the PHF councillor they were tricked into voting for who has failed to live up to any of the promises made and has left the people of Seaton under represented. Funny how PHF keep quiet about Kelly.

You are quick to lash out against me. It is ok, I understand. You are upset that you thought I wouldn't be standing this time around due to other commitments (I hold my hand up and state that I initially thought this may be the case) so you thought you could be opportunistic and hope that people forget PHF had absolutely no interest in the Hart ward in the last election, or indeed at any point until after the gypsy site saga when it is easy to cry outrage in hindsight. Or that they forgot you stated on numerous occasions that you believe that a candidate should not stand in a ward unless they live there and that you would only stand against Ged Hall because he wronged you. All very noble until the prospect of an 'easy' seat came along which may give you a platform to stand on.

The funny thing is that you think your style of hard hitting, personal attack politics is new. The reality is that it isn't and it has been going on for years. I myself fell into that trap initially and alienated a man who, strangely, I seem to have much in common with. Ask Stephen Allison.

Quote from: Pwilson on April 09, 2014, 12: AM

Quote from: SRMoore on April 08, 2014, 11: PM
I've continued to campaign in and around the Hart ward since I last stood for election there. It is a ward I know, I know the many of the people and, once our current house is sold, is the ward I will reside in. And I'll be campaigning there long after PHF have lost there and jump on another bandwagon elsewhere in town as they did with the gypsy camp.

You'd stand more chance of winning a vote if your party told Wells to join the party he actually supports.

Hartlepool Conservatives are Labour with blue ties and I'll never believe otherwise while Wells has his seat.

I don't ask anybody to vote Conservative, PWilson. All I ask is that you look at each candidate individually and vote for them by the answers they give you and their actions. I stand as a conservative because is my political view point and I am a member and supporter of the conservative party nationally.

It might be easier for me to stand as an independent or pretend to be a socialist but then I'd be lying and I try not to make a habit of doing that to people.

Let's have a series of public debates then Shane. In Hart, Clavering and Bishop Cuthbert.

Invite Fisher, you, me, which ever relative/friend of the Akers-Belchers they're putting up, and whoever else.

We could organise it through the residents associations executives. You know their names right?

You can talk about how the Tories supported and voted WITH Labour on their decision to put the gypsy site at Hart. (You could explain to people from Hart why they did that).

You can talk about how they've voted with Labour on EVERY SINGLE major issue in the council in recent years. (you could explain to people from Hart why they do that).

You can talk about how they've basically formed a coalition with Labour in exchange for 3 seats on the planning committee. (you could explain to people from Hart why they did that).

Go on fella. I'd love that.

According to you and Cllr Lilley there was not vote on choosing Hart as the preferred gypsy site. Which is it now?

I have absolutely no problem explaining anything to residents and I can easily quash the half truths you spin. I have no problem doing that and I have no problem then pointing out that you continue to attack me for the actions of others because you know that you can't attack me for the positive contribution I made before you bothered to turn up in the ward on the back of a band wagon to try your chances and the effort I continue to put it today as well as what you know I'll continue to do once you've rolled back out.

You claim to be standing on for the best interests of Hart but actually you are only standing as you believe that standing up in one meeting and shouting your mouth off has somehow elevated you superstardom in the ward and you along can overcome not only the nearly double (200) amount of votes it would take for PHF to come level with the base conservative vote but then go on to find another 300+ to get to Labours lowest amount of votes last time around.

You claim to want to put the beat interests of the people of Hart first and ensure they don't get another Labour councillor. Looks to me like you are going to hand Mrs Belcher and the Labour party exactly that.

Shane, you got about 150 more votes than us back in 2012. A lots changrd since then. Your parties brand has become toxic because your leaders have sold out to the Labour Party. The Akers-Belchers wont give a damn whether Labour, the conservatives or Fisher win because you will all do what you're told.

Nobody pulls my strings.

 Residents are right when they refer to you as the Nigel Farage of PHF. A one man band full of empty rhetoric and populist sound bites.

I've been quite straight here and answered the questions and false statements put to me so perhaps you'll do me the courtesy of actually answering something I put to you?

Why aren't you standing in your home ward of Burn Valley? The ward you stated on numerous occasions would be the only ward you would stand in and against Ged Hall. PHF (going on the 2012 elections have a head start on the Conservatives when it comes to a base vote. You clearly drew a line in the sand and challenged Ged Hall and vowed to stand against him, ridding the ward of the man who wronged you. Not up for the fight now? Or is that the plan for next year after your bandwagon rolls back out of Hart?

Moore your a knock out every ward you've ever stood in has always been where you're heart is and you will be moving to.

Hypocrite, The good people of Hart ward know what the Tory's did to them. I doubt they'll forget.

More lies Geoff. I understand you may need to run to the rescue of one of your own but don't lie in an attempt to deflect the argument.

"What the Tories did to them"? Once again attacking me on the actions of others. It would be very, very easy for me to do the same. Let us not forget that there was only one proposed site situated in a ward represented by a PHF councillor, your 'leader' non the less. When Throston was thrown out he claimed victory but the screenshots from angry residents show that he did nothing to support them

Quoteha councillor Dawkins did nothing to help Throston residents, we did it all ourselves... None of our councillors need thanking. All a pack of liars and in it for the money

.
So you can clearly see that in the one ward where PHF were expected to take an interest they did nothing. Yet when the wrong decision was made to put the site at Hart you were quick to jump all over it and play the hero.

The reality is that once again you failed to take an active part in the process and failed to propose an alternative site or another option altogether. Preferring instead to grandstand afterwards for political gain. Much like the majority of other decisions being made by council.

But I'm the hypocrite...

Hahaha the false statements put to you. Here, see how you get on answering these:

(1) Why did the Tories vote NOT to 'call in' the Gypsy site decision and have it brought back to full council?

(2) Why did the Tories have Briarsfield ruled out as a site due to land value, even though that's not actually allowed?

(3) Why do the local Tories support subsidised union members that costs the Hartlepool tax payer £100,000+ pa even though the national Tories have spent decades trying to destroy the unions?

(4) Why have the local Tories said literally NOTHING about the whole Manor Residents Association scandal?

(5) Why do the local Tories vote WITH Labour on literally every single major issue in council?

(6) Why do the Tories, who are typically supportive of heritage and conservation want to bulldoze Jacksons Landing?

(7) What do you think caused the local Tory leader to so vehemently support Akers-Belcher in ditching the local plan and push through the developments at Wynyard?

(8) Who was behind the proposal to sell the park lodge even though the council don't technically own it?

(9) Why did the chief solicitor Peter Devlin say to me that the tories were QUOTE "I'm coalition with Labour" in a meeting I had with him?

(10) What will you do if you DO get elected about standing to be an MP next year? Will you ditch 'your' residents in Hart to get on board the Westminster gravy train? 

Bless you, David. Still refusing to answer any question put to you. Enough said.

So much for being open and transparent... Just the same (if not worse) than those you claim to be better than.

Good luck in May, wherever you decide to stand.

anyways, as I was saying, and now backed up by the personal animosity between politicians above ......

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Don't vote for the buggers, you're only encouraging them, red, blue, yellow, all you get is politicians

My father and mother would be turning in their grave if their hard, life-long sacrifices came down to numbchuck local self-serving politicians and national thieving, lying self-serving politicians

Dowager. Well said. They are ALL the same. Just different coloured rosettes. But some are worse than others. I find that political opportunists are the worst kind. A few of those about ATM.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

DON'T VOTE, all you get is politicians

It seems to me that politicians, wannabe politicians and those who think there should not be any politicians, all suffer from the same inability to answer questions put to them. Preferring instead to ask one of their own.
So I will try again. Suspend your belief in reality and imagine no one has voted, parliament has crumbled and there is no government. Can Anyone from the don't vote camp explain what they want to happen next and how it will be achieved.
The answer may convert me and others to your cause.

Quote from: 7g2b on April 09, 2014, 12: PM
It seems to me that politicians, wannabe politicians and those who think there should not be any politicians, all suffer from the same inability to answer questions put to them. Preferring instead to ask one of their own.
So I will try again. Suspend your belief in reality and imagine no one has voted, parliament has crumbled and there is no government. Can Anyone from the don't vote camp explain what they want to happen next and how it will be achieved.
The answer may convert me and others to your cause.

There is no answer.
Politics is mainly a question of ego. I have no doubt most candidates start out with the best of intentions but they get seduced by the system and end up justifying their malpractice with the canard 'It is all for the public good and I am the only one able to do it properly'. I think the only way it would work is to time limit  the length of office so that they do not get to reap the rewards of their mendacity. No politician will ever accept the fact he  is no longer doing any good but the electorate can impose this stricture by voting him out. The power is already in the hands of the people they just choose not to exercise it.

The cries that everyone should opt out of the system and when it comes crashing down a state of nirvana will instantly  spring into being is  plain crazy.  It is never going to happen . 
We only have to look to the USA to see what happens when a group of individuals gets together to try and bring the system down. The Tea Party have no agenda other than to tear down the Government and  impose their own form of  people purity. Go to YouTube and  look at Michele Bachman, Ted Cruz, Amy Kremer, Christine O'Donnell & Sarah Palin and see how crazy otherwise normal people can be
Be careful what you wish for.................

Nobody wants nirvana, it will probably be ugly, probably violent (and I'm a pacifist), probably lots of death and mayhem ..... BUT, I think more and more people know in their hearts of hearts, that politics and politicians offer not much better to be honest

Politicians have disengaged young people entirely, apart from those doing politics at Uni who are future politicians and will work for politicians after Uni and see nothing and do nothing in the real world.

Politicians have disengaged the majority of older people, because they have foughts wars and hardships all their lives for 'a better life' and against facism and unfairness in society, now they have to sell their houses for care, exist on virtually the lowest pensions in Europe and feel that no one cares anymore

Politicians have massively disenged the 'hard working' lower and middle orders and even some of those slapping themselves on their collective backs who have 'done well for themselves' ... these people see that Politicians lie, and thieve and lie again and again and again .... Politicians are NOT people that ANYONE look up to

Don't vote, all you get is politicians, you may get social mayhem and violence, but you may also be surprised what 'normal' people come up with when politicians realise the game is up ....  and whatever you believe, I believe that day is coming a whole lot sooner than many of you keyboard warriors think

Quote from: dowager on April 09, 2014, 01: PM
Nobody wants nirvana, it will probably be ugly, probably violent (and I'm a pacifist), probably lots of death and mayhem ..... BUT...................

Sorry but that is a step too far.
This is no longer a rational debate.

Not rational? Seems perfectly rational to me. Just because Michael Kenny (the forum bully boy) doesn't agree doesn't make it irrational

QuoteDon't vote, all you get is politicians, you may get social mayhem and violence, but you may also be surprised what 'normal' people come up with when politicians realise the game is up ....  and whatever you believe, I believe that day is coming a whole lot sooner than many of you keyboard warriors think

In some respects you're right. All political systems ultimately get overthrown if you go back through history.

They get overthrown by people rising up, and then do you know what happens next?

They get replaced.

By more governments.

By more politicians.

It's a self perpetuating system. You can't kill it.

It's like Cerberus that helps guard the gates of hell. Too many different faces no matter what you do.

Show me ANY political system through the history of our planet that has been overthrown and replaced by ANYTHING OTHER than ......... a new political system of one form or another.

Meaningfully do that and i'll consider not voting........ ;)

We don't need any SYSTEM. We just need people of honesty and integrity who are doing it to make the world a better place and not in it for themselves.

That obviously rules YOU out.

Quote from: SRMoore on April 09, 2014, 01: AM

I don't ask anybody to vote Conservative, PWilson. All I ask is that you look at each candidate individually and vote for them by the answers they give you and their actions. I stand as a conservative because is my political view point and I am a member and supporter of the conservative party nationally.

It might be easier for me to stand as an independent or pretend to be a socialist but then I'd be lying and I try not to make a habit of doing that to people.

I think Shane the point I was trying to make may have been lost behind my rant about Wells.

I don't know you but you seem like someone who has political ambitions, the trouble is that no matter how great your personal politics were if you're a member of a party history has told me your principles will be set aside if they're at odds with the decision of the party.

I just think that at local level we need individual, independent, committed and intellegent people who understand their ward & at the same time understand the needs of people elsewhere in the town. 

" ... I just think that at local level we need individual, independent, committed and intillegent people who understand their ward & at the same time understand the needs of people elsewhere in the town.  ...."

c**k-on Tommy, as long as they're NOT politicians

Quote from: dowager on April 09, 2014, 01: PM
Nobody wants nirvana, it will probably be ugly, probably violent (and I'm a pacifist),

Don't vote, all you get is politicians, you may get social mayhem and violence, but you may also be surprised what 'normal' people come up with when politicians realise the game is up ....  and whatever you believe, I believe that day is coming a whole lot sooner than many of you keyboard warriors think

..then the 'normal' people will want a strongman to sort out the chaos and violence you envisage. Try thinking thins through.....that's how we get the dictators of this wotld..... and you won't be having this debate then.

I have noticed that a number of posters on the site telling others not to vote, so to these people, a simple question which requires a simple answer: What is the alternative to everyone not voting?  No council, no government, whats left?

Read my blog. Send me a FB request. I've been campaigning on this for 11 years. I'm still on pre mod with no reason given so no point answering. I've written hundreds of thousands of words on it.

One thing is certain. If you vote you'll get a politician. They're all the same. Despite what they say, they're all liars, all in it for themselves. They don't give a toss about you.

Keep doing the same thing. Get the same results.

Quote from: dowager on April 09, 2014, 11: PM
" ... I just think that at local level we need individual, independent, committed and intillegent people who understand their ward & at the same time understand the needs of people elsewhere in the town.  ...."

c**k-on Tommy, as long as they're NOT politicians

One nasty little irritating fact you appear to have overlooked......for every individual, independent commited and intelligent person with an understanding there's a busload more ready to shaft you.....and wouldn't the paragpns of virtue you allude then be .......politicians...?
The meek may well inherit the earth but I wonder how long they'll  hold onto it....and the fly boys will have the mineral rights.

It'll be like a 60's hippie commune with rates.

With a 'man-of-the-people' in the wings waiting for the call................

There's always a man of the people waiting in the wings......ready to tell you he isn't a politician and his followers aren't a party.

Couple of POSSIBLE (no comment on realism of liklihood here) scenarios.

Local election like the upcoming one here. Turnout is ridiculously low (under 100 voters).

Parliament could be asked to review what is going on in the Borough for turnout to be so low. Could lead to an investigation of the council and/or the electoral process in Hartlepool. Would definitely expose on a national level that all is not well.

General Election and turnout is very low, say under 5%. I don't think this has ever happened in a modern democracy but given we have a parliamentary monarchy, in theory the Queen should dissolve parliament or refuse to allow parliement to be convened by the winner (if there is one) of the election because the majority obtained is not a true reflection of the nations will.

Given that the monarchy is essentially self serving and as corrupt as the government I wouldn't like to say what would happen in real life but in an ideal world this scenario should lead to electoral reform.

If reform is the way forward one of the things I've always said should be first on a reform agenda is to make political parties of all kinds illegal. I'd also make donating anything to serving elected politicians illegal both for the giver and the recipient. MP's would be entitled to a wage paid by the state based on performance metrics around how well they serve their constituency e.g. Employment rates, economic output, crime etc as well as how well they perform any front bench role.

I'd also suggest a maximum term in office for MP's.

This, although nowhere near perfect may drive some of the right behaviours. However reform of any sort won't happen until the system is seen to be broken and corrupt beyond doubt.

couldn't put it better myself ...

Tells you a lot about a site when you post one of the first well reasoned and thought out replies on a thread and get "smited" twice.

There is two clear scenarios here................

If everyone votes you get 33 councillors.

If nobody votes you get 33 councillors.

Its called democracy  :o

You got them yesterday-when you were dishing them out. Nothing to do with your reply today.

Slightly wrong Mr Close.

What you end up with is 33 useless, self serving councillors who are doing it for the wrong reasons. You'd know about that.

James is spot on. Change the system. We can only do that by withdrawing our mandate.

What we have is not democracy. .

Harry, and the other 'don't vote' people.

I'll just make the statement earlier on this issue. The one that no one has answered.

QuoteShow me ANY political system through the history of our planet that has been overthrown and replaced by ANYTHING OTHER than ......... a new political system of one form or another.

As long as people have walked the Earth there's been some kind of 'system'. There's ALWAYS a system.

Jesus, haven't you read 'Lord of the Flies'?

Apologies, didn't realise it worked like that. Thought it was an individual rating on the comment.

Have I been dishing them out? I'm sure I've applauded quite a few people but must have only smited one or two.

Simon Evans explains why NOT voting won't work and why they'll never be a revolution in England.

It took him about 4 minutes...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIL8F53V4yY

David,

Glad you could take time off from the campaign trail, the posters PHF are promoting on Facebook don't actually verbalise it but imply you're standing in Hart, hope that's true.

I'm assuming you've posted a video but all I can see is empty space on my phone (a bit like the boxes on my voting card). Will look on the PC later.

There's ALWAYS a system. Non voting is a tactic in getting rid of the current one that's corrupted and broken beyond use.

Enough people stop voting and the cretins in charge will even start pretending to clean their system up as a defence mechanism.

Riddle. You asking people to answer questions? You have no shame.

Here's one. You standing in Hart?

David,

Seen this before - He's quite right, a huge majority of people are effectively anaesthetised.  The proof is acknowledged in my blog post on another thread.

However - People are waking up, slowly.  Accepting his point and not trying to wake people up to the reality is giving in to what they want, as is participating in the game under their rules by voting.

By the way, that Hart Ward image being bandied about the net.....You standing in Hart then?

Quote from: Jamescampbell78 on April 10, 2014, 10: PM
David,

Seen this before - He's quite right, a huge majority of people are effectively anaesthetised. 

However - People are waking up, slowly.

Roughly translated as .........no one is remotely interested.

All you have to do is rouse people into a paroxysm of inactivity!

The whole idea is a non starter and to be honest is begining to sound  like a  Davis Icke monologue.

I feel like I should vote.

Though all too often I've been left voting for the least worst option.

Add a none of the above to ballot slips and let the people vocalise their opinion of the political system with their vote rather than with their silence. An increased turn out and series of wins for none of the above would drill home the message with far greater validity than non voting which given average UK turnouts could be explained as apathy.

They'll never do it Paul.

That's why only a mass non vote combined with some other form of vocal protest that publicly quantifies the non vote on polling day will work.

There's one local councillor I know of, who openly aims to get the turnout in their ward as LOW as possible.

Not because they're hoping for a change in the system, quite the opposite. I have it good authority this particular councillor deliberately tries to keep the election as 'under the radar' as possible to basically ensure the current holders of the ward keep it.

At first it thought 'surely not', but then I was made aware of some voting turnout statistics on that particular patch, and the figures back up what I was told. There has been, largely, a year on year 'shrinkage' of the turnout in that ward, whilst other wards in the town remain relatively constant in terms of their % turnout. The ward in question is as much as 15% lower in terms of turnout than some others.

Anyway, i'll stick my neck out and predict a fairly significant % rise in overall turnout this year. Particularly in that ward I've referred to. ;-)

Would this be the ward you're standing in?

No Mr Blackwood,

There are some very dedicated councillors in the civic and very capable.

Unless you and others on this page actually get into the fray you will never know.

The system is designed not to change and never will.

Quote from: The Great Dictator on April 10, 2014, 05: PM
There is two clear scenarios here................

If everyone votes you get 33 councillors.

If nobody votes you get 33 councillors.

Its called democracy  :o

Could you please explain how, if nobody votes, we would get 33 councillors.

All the politicians have to do is make voting compulsory.
At a stroke the masterplan  is derailed.

Quote from: mk1 on April 11, 2014, 12: PM
All the politicians have to do is make voting compulsory.
At a stroke the masterplan  is derailed.

I wouldn't mind that.

As long as they also formed an independent body charged with educating people about the thing they were being told to do.

So the great day dawns and nearly all the masses come round to the idea of not voting....sadly the party hacks, members and assorted hangers on do vote and the masterplan lays in tatters as the usual suspects are seamlessly re-elected.........( all based on the lunatic assumption the masses will rise as one...which ain't gonna happen)

Mican, if ONE person in each ward votes you have a councillor.

That's the point at which you need to draw wider attention to the fact that somethings gone wrong.

Give us a solution or alternative then James ?

Already mentioned a couple of possible solutions on another thread. Another one I didn't mention was having some sort of control around non-performing elected officials such as the right of residents of a ward or constituents in the case of an MP having the right to raise a petition of no confidence (at any time during a term and not the current parliamentary recall for MP's which is a joke) to force an election.

I also think there needs to be an effective framework that encourages the local council to challenge the performance of the local MP and for the MP to challenge the council on performance. Independent of this, the local press has a huge role to play in challenging both. At the minute, in Hartlepool this doesn't happen. That's down to the owners of the paper to put their house in order and they won't do that until the public stops buying it....See the parallel I'm drawing there? In the Hartlepool Mail case, they'll just close it down and stop circulating it when that happens though.

In case you didn't catch the other thread, I'm not advocating non voting as a solution or an end game, merely a way of bringing about change.

So we do away with voting...so who then decides... who actually makes things happen...? Your problem is you talk in broad terms avoiding any discernible idea of of how your 'vision'would actually work. Oh it's all very soft focus thinking of some utopian hinterland, a celestial plain where happiness reigns all year round, but fail to tell uswho steers the ship. You set out to paint a picture but only bought the canvas....where is the paint...?

Shall we get down to the nitty gritty....after your much trumpeted world of none voting becomes a reality....... who makes the decisions...? short of the clouds parting and some deity descending on a shaft of celestial sunlight to appoint you as Gods representative on earth........ just how does it work when the people are taken out of the loop and silenced.....?Are you sayingthat the electorate are a bit thick because they vote for those of whom YOU  disapprove. On thevevidence so far I can only assume you to be another politician or the spokesperson for a collective of marxist leninist trainspotters juniour section.

John Snow destroys the countries most high profile 'don't vote' campaigner...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrVe7jJE__M

Quote from: Pwilson on April 11, 2014, 12: AM
I feel like I should vote.

Though all too often I've been left voting for the least worst option.

Add a none of the above to ballot slips and let the people vocalise their opinion of the political system with their vote rather than with their silence. An increased turn out and series of wins for none of the above would drill home the message with far greater validity than non voting which given average UK turnouts could be explained as apathy.

Didn't Montgomery Brewster try that?  if I remember right he won and stood down leaving the none of the above to win

Quote from: Jamescampbell78 on April 07, 2014, 07: PM
Admins/Mods - Am posting this here because it's political, if it's on the wrong board please feel free to move it to the right place.  I feel it's relevant here given that we have elections coming up.

This one is inspired by a conversation I had the other day.  I was talking to a Newcastle United fan and he was generally bemoaning the fact that money had ruined football.  In general terms he thought it was obscene that the likes of Wayne Rooney was getting paid £300,000 a week and that Mike Ashley was using Newcastle United to make money for himself and had no interest in the footballing success of the club beyond that.

I asked what he was doing about it, he didn't have a clue what I was on about.  So I asked if he held a season ticket at Newcastle or a Sky Sports subscription to watch football.  Yes to both.

So I said OK, cancel both, don't go to another game, buy another shirt or any other merchandise until things change.  Encourage others to do the same.  The response: 

"Ye cannot dee that, ye've gotta support ya team man."

I asked if he'd protested in any way, he said they often chanted anti Ashley slogans at games and once turned their back on the field before a game....so he pays the man he hates his hard cash to shout abuse at him.

So I explained that he was as responsible for the ruin of the game as Rooney, Ashley and all of the others fleecing it.  He looked utterly scoobied.

So in really simple terms I went on.  What do you think would happen if everyone just refused to renew their tickets and cancelled their Sky Sports?

Blank look.....

OK this is what would happen, cash flowing into the club would stop from ticket and merchandise sale.  Advertisers and other sponsors would stop pumping money into a club where attendances disappeared because there would be no audience to see the ads.

If everyone did this across all football clubs then the profit in it would disappear for these deep pocketed money men.

Same with Sky, if everyone stopped their subscriptions they'd begin to get the message, stop showing football and more importantly stop pumping their money into the game.

Once the cash into the game dried up the obscene amounts of money being paid to players would stop, then as a result the game would be played only by those who genuinely enjoyed the game, had a passion for it and as a result would probably be better at it.  It would probably be more watchable without huge sums of money at stake and therefore better for fans.  In short ultimate the power is with the punter, as long as they act together.

This is much the same as my view on voting.....

Replace players with MP's, paid obscene amounts of money for doing very little and to be honest, most probably couldn't give a crap about what they do as long as the money keeps flowing.

Replace teams with political parties with supporters who will blindly follow their team regardless of how badly they let them down over and over again.

Replace owners and sponsors with party donors and lobbyists who on the face of it are also supporters pumping money into their party for the love of it, but in reality they expect that money to be repaid several times over, it's an investment.  You put money in so that MP's change laws to make you profits or vote on things in a way that protects your interests.

The currency paid by the supporters?  Your vote!  None of this can work without the votes.

Voting validates the whole thing, they use the vote to say everything they're doing they do it in your name.  So like football what we need to do as a nation, if we want to fix our political system and get back people who will only represent us because they believe it to be the right thing to do and to protect the interests of the people they represent, is very, very simple.

STOP VOTING! Do it now, encourage others to do the same.....It will only work if everyone joins in!

James
your comparing apples and oranges there, however I do understand your point.  The key difference here and the one that pulls apart your analogy is that people / supporters love their clubs and do not want them to go out of business, their anger is directed towards the board not the club.  If you apply the same logic to the political system then I suppose the party becomes the country / team and the MPs players or PM the board.  Take away any of them and replace it with nothing then the team / country collapses.

On a personal note I'd be quite happy for all Newcastle supporters to stop going to matches, stop buying merchandise and cancell any TV subscriptions they have.
FTM

QuoteRiddle. You asking people to answer questions? You have no shame.

Here's one. You standing in Hart?

Is it STILL my turn Harry? I'd hoped you might have gone back to annoying Tweddles Farm or Sam Lee by now?

Quote from: The Great Dictator on April 11, 2014, 05: PM
Mican, if ONE person in each ward votes you have a councillor.

I wont even bother answering that one, as for the rest, I have yet to see an alternative to ALL people NOT voting, how will we have someone/people in charge to make decisions etc.  Will they be ELECTED? ooops

at the risk of repeating myself .....
For 90+ years, since the 1st World War and the sufragette movement we have all been made to feel guilty about 'not voting' Our parents, our grandparents and now us. "Your grandad died fighting for freedom and against fascists", your Grandma fought for the vote. YOU SHOULD VOTE, YOU HAVE TO VOTE

Well the only problem with that is that people HAVE been voting for all those years and politicians, top civil servants and the richest 5% of society have been filling their boots and have become richer and richer and richer... and worse than that, they laugh at the rest of us

For the common man, despite the heroic fights of trade unions, life has become hardly a jot different and the salary / wealth differential has become much. much wider and with the current coalition and the previous Labour governments, this is only being strengthened. Red / Blue or Yellow, all political colours are the same.

Remember when there was a clerk at the top of the town hall tree who earned about 20% more than the rest of the staff? Now we have CEO's and Chief Execs who, on average, earn 500-700% more than 'the common man' THEY ARE all in it together, but they're telling us that WE are all in it together

Voting has changed nothing for the common man, and more and more people are realising that. If voting changed anything, they would ban it. They allow voting, because it gives the illusion of democracy and freedom of speech.

I for one, and more and more of us in Hartlepool and across the UK will NOT be voting for the status quo, you may well do, and you may well think I should, but I ain't playing their decades old game, because it changes NOTHING

"I for one, and more and more of us in Hartlepool and across the UK will NOT be voting for the status quo, you may well do, and you may well think I should, but I ain't playing their decades old game, because it changes NOTHING"

and NOT voting also changes nothing. Explain how that advances the situation.

I will be voting as usual and encouraging others to do so.

Quote from: dowager on April 13, 2014, 10: AM
at the risk of repeating myself .....

Now at the risk of repeating myself, what is the answer to everyone not voting? What is the alternative to an elected council/government.  So instead of telling us your undoubted dislike of the system, do you have an answer?

the system stinks and i dont like it so i'm not voting................................. oh and i'm taking my ball too and you can have these toys out of my pram

Don't vote.... nothing changes.

Vote....and change is possible.

The problem is those who don't vote.... so please don't whine about a system you have no intention of participating in.

Let's face it if you have no intention to vote you have no right to complain about the system

Saying that the result in the manor election just after the MRA scandal broke shows not every one should be aloud a vote

Voting for one party because you always have and your parents did   means  you end up with a F××king useless MP and council as the main party know they don't have to work for your vote

Every one should protest vote for a independent till after the next general election and see what a difference the main party's will be like fighting to get your vote

The no voters are like a car owner who unhappy with the performance of their car decide to put no petrol in it till it performs to their satisfaction......The electoral system is the same.....you get out what you put in.

This is a totally pointless thread.

I was just thinking the same Not4me.

Like i said before, this is a bunch of people who don't vote, trying to persuade some of the most politically active people in the town, NOT to vote.

Very strange.

" ...  if you have no intention to vote you have no right to complain about the system ..."

zzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Bit like the hoary old one about 'Your Grandad died fighting facists so you could be free, you have to vote'

and

"Your great grandmother and her friends were suffragettes, some of them died so that you could vote, you HAVE to vote

In a so-called democracy, I HAVE EVERY RIGHT to tell people not to vote.

DON'T VOTE, you get politicians and NOTHING changes

These repetetive, dogmatic posts about not voting are a distraction. End.

Every country in the world has politicians, so it must work.

Dowager, have you thought about moving to North Korea ?

Has this thread been merged with the Politican Football Thread I started? 

I was fairly sure Mican started this one?

If so, do I need to read back to see what threads have been posted where?

Quote from: Jamescampbell78 on April 14, 2014, 06: PM
Has this thread been merged with the Politican Football Thread I started? 

I was fairly sure Mican started this one?

If so, do I need to read back to see what threads have been posted where?

Funny enough thats what i thought, thanks for putting my mind at rest.

Posted this on April 8th (12 days ago)

QuoteQuote
This is a cut and paste lifted complete  from Blackwood's Blog.

Is it not the custom to link such items?

Just re-read this and realised the link to Harry's blog from the Hartlepool Post front page has even gone.  Hartlepool Post was praising that blog a few weeks ago.

He must be doing something right, went through 25,000 unique page views today.  That's genuine and not some 40k Facebook "reaches" too.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10152324923414976&set=a.498893539975.301876.514879975&type=1&relevant_count=1

Then prospective Hart Ward councillor Riddle had this to say:

Quote
James, look at the counter graph on the blog you mention. No one was reading it until he blogged about me and Derek Bilton, and no one is reading it now.

No one is reading it now eh? Just went through 30,000 unique page views this weekend.

That's an extra 5k views in 10-12 days, around 420-500 views a day.

Not bad for one man and his blog.

Voting. Great idea, replace one parasite for another.

Has the penny not dropped that the lower the vote, the happier our Labour friends would be? They will, at the very least, always vote themselves and they'd be more than content to claim victory on that basis.

QuoteThen prospective Hart Ward councillor Riddle had this to say:

Quote
James, look at the counter graph on the blog you mention. No one was reading it until he blogged about me and Derek Bilton, and no one is reading it now.

No one is reading it now eh? Just went through 30,000 unique page views this weekend.

That's an extra 5k views in 10-12 days, around 420-500 views a day.

Not bad for one man and his blog.

As I said, of those 30,000 views, looking at the spike it appears around 10,000 or so of those hits are from the ONE article about me and mr bilton. There are what? 80 odd comments on that article. More comments on that one article than ALL of Harrys other articles put together.

Anyway, the vast majority of stuff on the blog are fairly well know conspiracy theory/political/economic standpoints that you can find all over the internet by various ammateur hacks. There's not much new or revealing on there really if you're widely read in that genre.

In Thailand currently on holiday. Local Election yesterday and the sale of alcohol was forbidden anywhere supermarkets etc, all bars were closed for 24 hours. This happens when there are any elections local or national in fact some times for 48 hours and the elections are are held usually over the week end so no excuse for having no time because of work etc. Would this make more people turn out in Hartlepool, ok you could stock up before the ban and have a party but it would make people more aware.

I just got a leaflet for an independent candidate called Little (Seaton ward).

Not offering anything we haven't heard before, pot holes, dog fowling etc.
Exactly what we have been promised to be sorted in the past and never has been.

I can't see one reason to vote in this ward.
If we get an independent councillor, they will be ganged up on at council meetings and have no influence.
No point in voting PHF as the current PHF  councillor in the ward has been invisible since being elected.
(By invisible I mean, never makes public statements or replies to e-mails.)
No point in voting Labour as they are proven self interested good for nothing other than self promotion
of their music recytals whilst Rome burns.
Conservative have shown they are only interested in greasing the planning process and no other meaningful part
of town politics.

Bring me a community sports facility like the one on the Headland or Brierton, open up the Youth Centre to give the kids something to do, spend a million on a community resource centre ...and so on, and then I might think about voting but until then I will be staying at home on voting day.

All I can say is that this hasn't been my experience. I didn't vote when this young lady was elected and didn't even know her name when I went to the ward surgery with a problem I was having with the council to do with my council tax. She was very polite and patient (I struggle to explain myself after a mild stroke last year) and she said she would make some enquiries. A few days later I got a letter from the council with everything sorted. That's the sort of councillor I want so I'll be voting for her next time if I can.
She didn't seem the type to want her picture in the paper every other day like that Belcher guy but to me that's a good thing.

I know Sue Little personally.

Nice lady, local businesswoman and although I haven't spoken to her in awhile I suspect she's standing for the right reasons.

I dare say she's a capable candidate in terms of being organised, logical, competent, good with the public etc and can hold her own in an argument.

As another poster has said a lot depends of how much influence she will actually have in the face of party politics.

Quote from: Jamescampbell78 on April 27, 2014, 04: PM
I know Sue Little personally.

Nice lady, local businesswoman and although I haven't spoken to her in awhile I suspect she's standing for the right reasons.

No fear of her getting a  36 page stalking blog!

Quote from: Jamescampbell78 on April 27, 2014, 04: PM
I know Sue Little personally.

Nice lady, local businesswoman and although I haven't spoken to her in awhile I suspect she's standing for the right reasons.

I dare say she's a capable candidate in terms of being organised, logical, competent, good with the public etc and can hold her own in an argument.

As another poster has said a lot depends of how much influence she will actually have in the face of party politics.

Would you vote for her, Jimmy?

From what I hear she's a personal friend of Ged hall and a bit miffed at not getting a subsidy for her minibuses.

Steve,

It's a bit academic because she's not in my ward but I'd have to speak to her and understand the reasons she's put herself up first. Whilst I've had business dealings with her and her husband and coached her sons at rugby I don't know what her political viewpoint is.

Marky - I don't know if she knows Ged Hall or whether she's even applied for a subsidy for the minibuses. I would imagine if she didn't get a subsidy and was miffed about it that she would also be quite open and vocal about it.

Quote from: The Great Dictator on April 14, 2014, 03: PM
Every country in the world has politicians, so it must work.

Dowager, have you thought about moving to North Korea ?

You find that those countries with one candidate have a 99.99% turnout.

The only interesting point in this whole thread...............

Howay Davy Riddle what's the crack with the never has been, ex-editor of the local rag and an ex-sports hack from said rag.?

the_exile; I had the cheek to make some posts on this site on a few different topics only to be shot down time and again by MK1. I have concluded MK1 is Driddle's little lapdog, ask a dodgy question or make an accusation and he'll come yapping out of his kennel. A few other suspects on here too.

I have a feeling this forum was set up solely for the purpose of furthering the interests of certain individuals. As I've found, a newbie's input is unwelcome unless it shows certain/groups in a positive light.

Thanks to posters such as MK1 and his chums I sought out the ex editor blog and even his fb page. Very enlightening.

I  know Driddle and his seedy mates. The word unsavoury comes to mind.

oh dear, looks like the sheep are getting worried. They must be very insecure.

Quote by Monty767

"I have a feeling this forum was set up solely for the purpose of furthering the interests of certain individuals"


Strange that you should think that Monty, this forum has been going for over 10 years now ( I believe ) so why you have come to the conclusion it has been set up to further the interests of a few individuals in ludicrous.

Just to enlighten you a "Tad" would the council tax payers of Hartlepool been aware of the following, without this forum exposing them.

The Phoenix Scandal

The Tall Ships (Manipulated Spending)

The £4 Million Transport Interchange

Manor Residents Scandal

Who Cares Northeast

Peer Group Report Public Inquiry

Public Questions Scandal

The people who have been exposing the goings on within our council through this forum, have done more to bring about change in Hartlepool than the rest of us put together.

Look forward to the trolling

You shouldn't be thinking about Dave Riddle sunshine - he's not your type. You'd be better off thinking about Wynyard because it's about to drop on your head.

QuoteI  know Driddle and his seedy mates. The word unsavoury comes to mind.

This made me laugh. I run what will quickly become one of the largest most significant A Level colleges on Teesside. My "seedy mates" are primarily senior managers, CEOs, people in charge of businesses with turnovers in the high 8 figures. My best mate is a kitchen fitter, another is Head of Religious Studies in a school in Sheffield.

Other than the fact I went to the same university as Derek 'Big Gravy' Bilton, (Who is a bit of a wild card) I'd love to know where you get "seedy" and "unsavoury" from.

I aslo struggle to comprehend how, or why, i'm such an object of fascination on this forum. Most of the people who give me grief on here have never even met me and don't even know me.

QuoteThe only interesting point in this whole thread............. ..

Howay Davy Riddle what's the crack with the never has been, ex-editor of the local rag and an ex-sports hack from said rag.?

and just regarding this question... I'm not even going to go there. Said ex-editor cries foul and screams 'libel' if you say anything about him, but he thinks its ok to blog a bunch of rubbish about anyone else and pass it off as 'fact'.

Could be that when the boat gets rocked there's always those who demand you sit down.

I agree Steve.

Someone who doesn't vote because he thinks politicians are all liars asks the question of a politician if he thinks it's OK to lie.

In the context the question is being asked, precisely how meaningful would an answer be.

If David says 'NO', the questioner assumes the real answer is 'YES' because according to him all politicians lie.

As you say, Steve, one of the silliest threads ever.

QuoteQuote from: DRiddle on Today at 08:24 AM
I aslo struggle to comprehend how, or why, i'm such an object of fascination on this forum. Most of the people who give me grief on here have never even met me and don't even know me.
Goes with the territory David. When the top 10 threads on this forum are ALL having a go at you then you know you've really arrived!

Fair point Steve. I'll know i've 'made it' when I start attracting the level of abuse you used to get on here back in the day.

I do seem to be a 'flickering light bulb' for some very odd 'moths' though.

I've had grief over the last year or two from Hall, barking Barclay, Beck (all 3 of them wrote to The Mail specifically about me), Blackwood (wrote a blog about me), Kipperdip, Ryehill, (both gave me and other non-UKIPpers so much grief on here they had to be given their own sub topic to drone on about the EU),obviously Fraser (but who hasn't), various others.

I seem to be some sort of magnet for the maladjusted.

everyone has a purpose in the grand scheme of things, David. Jimmy is a cyclist like his mate Blackwood and like a lot of cyclists he has trouble recognising red lights and knowing when to stop.

 DRiddle your last post on this threat indicates that you are suffering from Paranoia. I have searched through my posts over the last 2 years and yes I have disagreed with you on a number of issues but gave you grief .Hardly. If you are not suffering from paranoia then maybe you are just the type of person who generates hostility. 

Mr Wilson, If I have one regret in my time at English Martyrs, it's that I didn't video record the 'question time' style debate I organised which you attended, representing your political party.

I would love the readers and contributors of this forum to see the questions put to you by a Sixth Form student from Hartlepool, but of an Indian ethic background.

I would love people to be able to listen to you make references to the 'damage' caused by 'foreigners' in 'our' country.

I wish people could see the look on your face as said student explained her brother, a second generation immigrant, was now a heart surgeon who had turned down lucrative private work, to instead, stay working with the NHS out of duty to his country.

I would love people to be able to see the young homosexual boy who politely put his hand up, and articulately explained that he was utterly bemused by some of your political standpoints.

I would love for people who read and post on this forum, to be able to see what I saw. That being a crowd in excess of 200 of our towns future generation of leaders, of doctors, teachers, lawyers, dentists, social workers and such like, utterly bewildered by the views you expressed on that stage that day.

Utterly bewildered by the views expressed by you.

I spent over 5 years at English Martyrs, I had many a proud day there.

That day was amongst the proudest.



P.S,  The 'Indian Girl', as you referred to her, you know what she's doing now? She's at Oxford University reading medicine. She has a placement coming up with medicine sans frontiers, so pretty soon she'll be in war zones patching up people of all races, colours, creeds, religions etc. She will see no difference in terms of skin pigmentation. Nor will she ask to see people's passports before tending to their wounds. The day she's doing that, well, that'll be another proud day.

       Your memories of that event differ greatly from mine, you seem to be suffering from delusions as well as paranoia. If  U.K.I.P. offends you so greatly why did you recently approach two officials of the branch in an effort to do electoral deals. Hypocrisy of the first order.

Because I want to cut the ruling parties majority, I would have thought that was obvious...

Testing Times: Only posed the question because MK1 brought the subject up and I thought it would make for an interesting debate. As you see from my response to Shane Moore I've respected his answer and will unless I catch him lying.

David Riddle: People are asking you questions because you have placed yourself prominently within PHF and offered yourself up for elections. The electorate and potential electorate want to know where your moral compass points and how your political thinking goes.

SteveL: You are correct, amongst many other things I'm a cyclist, however, unless you want to find comments like that on a variety of local and national cycling forums I'd be very careful about making generalisations like that. I don't comment on how you drive a car because I've never seen how you drive. There are a lot of voting cyclists in the town who'd be highly offended at such a generalisation.

Quote[David Riddle: People are asking you questions because you have placed yourself prominently within PHF and offered yourself up for elections. The electorate and potential electorate want to know where your moral compass points and how your political thinking goes./quote]

James, given the nature of the job I do for a living, and the way I've conducted myself in terms of my input into council meetings etc, over the last year or two, I think my moral compass speaks for itself.

QuoteJames, given the nature of the job I do for a living, and the way I've conducted myself in terms of my input into council meetings etc, over the last year or two, I think my moral compass speaks for itself.

Your job tells me nothing about you, I work in banking, according to public perception that makes me a thieving, manipulative, lying, cheating ******* which couldn't be further from the truth.

Look at previous public perceptions of Jimmy Savile or Lance Armstrong. Until people ask questions the answers are essentially assumptions and a very good teacher once told me that assume makes an ass out of u and me both (he stole that one from someone else too).

I'm sure you have friends who, on the face of their job would seem very respectable but perhaps when you scratch beneath the purpose they're not. It's kind of like those who work for the police by day but at the weekend love a good coke and booze fuelled binge, a fight and a curry and get barred from pubs leaving a trail of destruction in their wake.

Some of the things I've read and heard about you in council meetings do give a positive outlook but they speak more of your potential political capabilities than your moral compass.

I wonder if James will stay on the site once the elections are over, if so what will he have to talk about?

Quote from: stephen allison on April 29, 2014, 01: PM


So the "facts" the public "Know" about bankers are wrong. However the "facts" that you "Know" about politicians are 100 per cent right?

Obviously the subject is not as black & white as that but not every (insert your scapegoat) is corrupt. However  you can be an honest decent  person and still be part of the problem. How? By being  one of the  majority who sit it silence as the  bad boys wreck havoc.  By thinking 'well I can't say anything because it will destroy the party' you are just as much to blame as the miscreant.
It is a sad fact that in any large organisation there exists a group mentality that rationalises  internal corruption as a cross worth bearing bcause  to speak out about it will damage your group and as a  result (this is the twisted mindset) do a much greater evil by allowing the other side in and they will wreck everything.
No pary leader was going to expose a Cyril Smith so soon after the Jeremy Thorpe  trial/debacle. It would have finished the Liberals so the otherwise decent men covered it up for the 'greater good.
Tony Blair made the Labour Party part of his personal conversation with God to rid the world of war-by starting lots of them!  Most Labour MPs knew he was delusional but he won elections so they put up with it for the greater good.
Margret Thatcher set out to destroy Unions and in the process  wiped out  most of our industrial base. Her MPs may have felt pangs about her methods but none doubted it was for the greater good.
That is how it works. Good people get together and convinced they alone are the ones who can run things  correctly they will pay any price to preserve their power.

Bankers of all ranks  have been shown to be completely corrupt. Counter staff were just happy to take the bonus payments for selling  bogus insurance policies as their managers who set the quotas. They  pushed  low earning schemes to customers in order to boost bank profits and countless other sins. The staff  who sat still and watched it happen are just as guilty as those who got the  high commisions. Indeed I would go  further and say the majority of those in the 'Financial Sector' are crooks.  Churning is the name of the game and I see lots of problems in the future as the 'Financial Advisers' get their hands on people's pensions now the law has changed.

Or put simply: Power Corrupts or You can't please all of the people all of the time or any other cliche you care to insert.

Stephen I agree, not all politicians are toerags, just a very high percentage of them.

My point on not voting has always been that my default position is not to vote and that to gain my vote/support a politician must convince me that they can effect change for the better.

I see honesty as very high on my shopping list when it comes to elected officials. Making themselves voluntarily accountable to the public is another.

You'll be surprised how low the percentage of toerags in banking is compared with the overall industry, the ones who are tend to also have a few fingers in a few dirty political pies too.

QuoteYour job tells me nothing about you

I would beg to differ. Granted there are bad apples in every profession, as shown by the extreme examples you chose of Saville and Armstrong.

However, I feel most people would probably agree that certain professions attract certain 'types' of character.
Nurses, teachers, doctors, social workers etc. Professions like that tend to attract people who is it as a vocation, not just a job. Granted nursing will always throw up the odd Beverley Allitt, the medical profession will very occasionally be tarnished by a Harold Shipman type, but generally speaking, the vast majority do it because they have already, engrained in them, the kind of moral compass you're checking I have.

James, I don't for one second claim to be Mahatma Ghandi, but do you honestly think I'm doing this for the money? or as an ego trip? or for some other underhand reason? I'm watching the town I grew up in, the town I live in, be systematically torn to pieces by people who are virtually unemployable in terms of mainstream careers.

There are people making multi million pound decisions that affect me and my family, who outside of local politics would not be in charge of finances beyond that of a small offices lottery syndicate.

Your answer to addressing our towns problems is to not vote and home that a system of Prime Ministers that's survived nearly 300 years stops sometime in your lifetime.

My answer is to TRY very hard to take the first steps towards facilitating some change in 23 days time.

Again, I guess this could be construed as me 'promoting my campaign' in which case, here is my imprint.

Published by Geoff Lilley (Agent) Putting Hartlepool First Party, 68 Fens Crescent, TS25 2QN, on behalf of candidate David Riddle, 1 Wansbeck Gardens, Hartlepool, TS26 9JQ. (Candidate for the Hart Ward).

[quote author=Jamescampbell78 link=topic=1604.msg19673#msg19673 date=1398

My point on not voting has always been that my default position is not to vote and that to gain my vote/support a politician must convince me that they can effect change for the better.

[/quote]The average politician will be wetting themselves with laughtet....your default position is of no relevance to them whatsoever....... don't vote....in fact never vote at all...they don't care, you're just smoothing the way for their core idiot vote to re-elect the idiot in chief. Your no vote is complicit in whatever happens, even a no vote has value....just not to you.

Driddle.

'I run what will quickly become the largest most significant A level colleges on Tesside' ...........And? was that supposed to impress me? And in who's opinion? Yours?

Your friends include Primary school managers! I see lots of them on the news, usually getting done for downloading certain images.

CEO's, people in charge of business turnovers of 8 figures. More bragging. I know some well connected well healed people too, however I don't basque in the glory of their achievements.

Head of religious studies? Are you the cross he/she has to bear by chance?

The fact that you know some nice people doesn't make you nice by proxy  does it.

So how is Bilbo now he's been dumped on the sideline? back to his old tricks I see. I know you went to the same uni for gods sake but I note you didn't mention you were room mates?

Speaking of your mates what's Bailey up to these days? Still beating up old ladies in the street?

When you put yourself out into the public domain you become a person of interest. That's how it works. Especially for people who know you.

You might want to learn to read first Monty before having a go at me. Here's what I wrote...

QuoteMy "seedy mates" are primarily senior managers

Here's how you responded to that statement...

QuoteYour friends include Primary school managers! I see lots of them on the news, usually getting done for downloading certain images.

I write P-R-I-M-A-R-I-L-Y, not primary. As in, my friends are MAINLY senior managers.

I'll give you a little tip fella, when you're trying to embarrass someone, it's usually best to ensure the person you embarrass isn't yourself.

Monty/Harry/Mr Mister/Whoever...... another maladjusted moth careering head on into the flickering light bulb that is David Riddle's election campaign.

Very bizarre.

I bet I hear nothing from you after May 22nd.

I don`t contribute to the forums as much as i once did & the reasons are many & varied.

The fact that someone seems to think it is so Important what Dave Riddle puts on his address is mind bogglingly trivial & pedantic in the extreme, i think over time Dave Riddle has expressed opinions on Tees Valley & how Hartlepool could be influenced by events connected to it & that is the important issue, not his Postcode.

Like most people I think Cleveland County was detrimental to the good of Hartlepool & I also believe that if it does come about that a City of Teesside springs up out of the Smog, it to will be of no benefit to Hartlepool.

The only thing we will be useful for is to Gain more government money, per head of population whether that money is shared "Equally" around the place is far from certain.

As someone who wore the Maroon Jersey of Durham RFU as a young lad, i prefer to be known as a resident of the land of The Prince Bishops... as opposed to being labelled A Smog Monster........ It just doesn`t have the same ring to it somehow.

Fred: I was never lucky enough to wear the maroon. Which club did/do you play for?

QuoteMy "seedy mates" are primarily senior managers, CEOs, people in charge of businesses with turnovers in the high 8 figures. My best mate is a kitchen fitter, another is Head of Religious Studies in a school in Sheffield.

Some of the seediest people I know are CEO's and senior managers.

I work in an industry where 8 figure turnovers are the domain of minor local/regional interests and the work I do has real impacts on 8 figure+ sums daily. In my time I've been and remain friends with police officers, barristers, solicitors, district judges, primary and secondary school teachers and heads, members of the clergy etc

None of that means I'm a good person, with good intent which was the point I'm trying to get across.

I'm not sure it's fair to say S+CAB would be employable in any other domain either in all honesty, depends on your definition of "mainstream career" I suppose.

Just out of curiousity, have you ever worked in the private sector? What experience do you have in managing multi-million pound budgets or maintaining business relationships at an executive level?

Quote from: fred c on May 02, 2014, 10: AM
I don`t contribute to the forums as much as i once did & the reasons are many & varied.

The fact that someone seems to think it is so Important what Dave Riddle puts on his address is mind bogglingly trivial & pedantic in the extreme, i think over time Dave Riddle has expressed opinions on Tees Valley & how Hartlepool could be influenced by events connected to it & that is the important issue, not his Postcode.

Like most people I think Cleveland County was detrimental to the good of Hartlepool & I also believe that if it does come about that a City of Teesside springs up out of the Smog, it to will be of no benefit to Hartlepool.

The only thing we will be useful for is to Gain more government money, per head of population whether that money is shared "Equally" around the place is far from certain.

As someone who wore the Maroon Jersey of Durham RFU as a young lad, i prefer to be known as a resident of the land of The Prince Bishops... as opposed to being labelled A Smog Monster........ It just doesn`t have the same ring to it somehow.

I agree with eveything you say except your second paragraph.... I believe our participation in what would be Clevreland  reborn  would be a disater for Hartlepool. All I want is his opinion on it..... for it or  against it..... simple as that. As a prospective voter it's a valid question to ask.

It sound like people are asking for my CV to scrutinise.

James, my comments about the people i've worked with were in response to a comment someone made about me having "seedy mates", I don't.

In terms of this question you asked.... "Just out of curiousity, have you ever worked in the private sector? What experience do you have in managing multi-million pound budgets or maintaining business relationships at an executive level?"

yes I have worked in the private sector for a large Insurance company. In terms of mutli million pound budgets the budget I currently directly manage is several million pounds, so thats a yes. In terms of maintaing business relationships at an executive level, the organisation I work for has meaningful business relationships with practically every major employer in this region and beyond. These relationships are not just insignificant links, they're very significant, meaningful business arrangements which again deal with significant contracts worth millions.

In terms of Teesside, I live in Hartlepool. As i've said, it's been called Durham, Cleveland and now Teesside.

My own personal school of though is we should 'side' with whichever county/city status/postcode/whatever which will change our town for the better.

I'd say the jury is still out on who that will be.

Thanks, good answers again David.

Quote from: Jamescampbell78 on May 02, 2014, 11: AM
Fred: I was never lucky enough to wear the maroon. Which club did/do you play for?

Do i Play for....... Ohhh how i wish, when i did participate it was on the Dog Track, Dog s**t 1 & 2 at Rossmere & Brierton Lane, my son & both grandsons play, although i have to say the youngest has absconded to Old Boys, I do make him take a wash before he comes into the house tho. lmao

Quote from: DRiddle on May 02, 2014, 01: PM


In terms of Teesside, I live in Hartlepool. As i've said, it's been called Durham, Cleveland and now Teesside.

My own personal school of though is we should 'side' with whichever county/city status/postcode/whatever which will change our town for the better.

I'd say the jury is still out on who that will be.

So you'll see what turns up.........?

.........so you'll see what turns up....just like I said.
There'll be no referendum.. no vote... no nowt..... whatever happens will happen and we won't get a look in.

I too started my club career off on the Rossmere pitch but left at 17 to join Rovers. Spent 17 years or so at Rovers then did my final season at Old Boys, partly to fulfill a promise to a mate and partly because we had 4 hookers at Rovers but 3 senior teams.

I'd lost interest in 1st XV and we had two good younger hookers playing 2nds and 3rds and having 3 of us to choose from meant that the 2nd XV management had a choice of trying to keep two of us happy with half a game and trying to bring on the other in the 3rd team. Wasn't particularly good for the younger lads who needed to get proper match experience so I left a year earlier than I planned to which worked out well considering I injured my shoulder and had to stop playing a year earlier too.