The Brothers do it AGAIN

[Hartlepudlion]

So Union intransigence has closed the Grangemouth petrochemical plant possibly for good. The refinery is also under threat. Unions acting like in the 60s and 70s.

Makes you proud, eh, arc86.

[The Great Dictator]

Speak up brown you're through..

[pensionater]

So you just sit back and let them cut your wage and pension do you?.Its a good job all the kids nowadays are obese or you would have them back up chimneys.

[pensionater]

Yeah the billionaire owner said he's not making any money.

[grim reaper]

From what I've read, the company wanted to introduce a contributory scheme to the pensions of FUTURE employees, which would be 6%, brought in gradually over 6 years.
This does not affect the terms and conditions of the current employees.
So they refuse to allow contributions to their pension pot...the way police, NHS, Fire Brigade, Local Councils etc. etc. have always done.
Why should they be different?

It is also said that the refinery employees are on salaries of £40,000 per annum. The unite union says that is wrong, it is only £30,000 per annum.

No the wonder the vote was a close run thing....I wouldn't have said 'no' to a £40,000 salary!

[Hartlepudlion]

So Pensionater, what would you prefer, a job or a pension that you might receive? You sound as though you have been a public sector employee where the answer is to put up taxes not cut back on the expense of the operation. The private sector, who pay for the public sector, have had to accept pay cuts to survive. The public sector has had freezes not pay cuts....... Unless you are a Cllr of course.

The bit that now worries me is what happens next? If, as seems likely, that nationalisation is likely to be needed to save Scotland, who will pay? As far as I can see, the Scottish Parliament doesn't have the powers so the UK Parliament will have to do it. This means the UK taxpayer. Why should we, the English, the Welsh and the Northern Irish, pay for a country that could be independent next year? Perhaps a loan at 10%.

[pensionater]

Never worked in the public sector in me life,lowly labourer and proud.I do agree that we need to see what happens next because if they get away with threatening you with the sack if you fight for what's yours then we are all in big trouble.

[Inspector Knacker]

Never worked in the public sector in me life,lowly labourer and proud.I do agree that we need to see what happens next because if they get away with threatening you with the sack if you fight for what's yours then we are all in big trouble.

Principles are all very commendable, but you can't eat them. Unpalatable as it may be, ........ a job beats no job every day,...... it seems some of the workforce after years of having a secure job, are hopelessly insulated from the realities of the current jobs market, sadly ,they're in for a very rude awakening today, the worlds a colder nastier place.

[mk1]

The bit that now worries me is what happens next? If, as seems likely, that nationalisation is likely to be needed to save Scotland, who will pay?

I shoud say so.

'We in england demand all out money be given to greedy bankers instead.
The biggest nationalisation in history was undertaken to preserve the lifestyle of an inner London elite. Can't have hairy scotsmen feeding from the same trough.

[DRiddle]

Looks to me like Jim Ratcliffe is being accused of holding the workforce and the whole of Scotland to ransom by Unite.

The reality is that Jim Radcliffe has made billions by buying up companies that weren't profitable and then making them profitable by cutting wages, negotiating pension reform and such like.

Obviously being paid less and having to put more into your pension isn't ideal, but it's a damn site better than having no job at all.

Unite will try and paint Jim Radcliffe as the villain here. There are others who would argue his business acumen has saved tens of thousands of jobs across this sector from being outsourced to the far East.

Somewhere between those two schools of thought is probably the reality.

[pensionater]

So making billions by cutting wages and pensions is good?.What a load of rubbish,stop moaning and be grateful you have a job what sort of a statement is that.Keep doffing your cap and you'll be all right.Are we in 2013 or 1913?.

[DRiddle]

Read what I wrote. If the alternative is the whole company going to the wall and a couple of thousand people being made redundant (their jobs being outsourced to the far east), which would you prefer?

Keep in mind the companies he bought to build up his fortune were practically given away by multinationals that didn't see them as being profitable, and he restructured them to make them profitable (and save the workforce).

Granted, the entire workforce and pension pot took a hit, but if the alternative was no company at all (and no jobs), I personally would support his business plan.

This is a globalized economy we live in... as you say... it's not 1913.

[Thejoker]

So making billions by cutting wages and pensions is good?.What a load of rubbish,stop moaning and be grateful you have a job what sort of a statement is that.Keep doffing your cap and you'll be all right.Are we in 2013 or 1913?.

We are in 2013 and the harsh reality of 2013 is that your beloved unions are so out of date they should have been banned a long time ago. Protecting workers is a noble aim, but to somehow brainwash people into effectively handing in their notice is beyond stupidity.

I'm certain that given the choice betweem a well paid job in a failing company or a slightly less well paid job in a sustainable one most normal non-brainwashed folk wouls pick employment. 

If people can't accept this more jobs will leave these shores and more and more places will end up as Labour (mis)managed sink holes.

[WhatTheHeck]

Dont forget this is Scotland, their unions are stuck in the dark ages.

According to the news tonight looks like the union is trying to back down, seems  that they have realised their mistake and have been out bluffed !

[mk1]

I am astounded people here don't realease how these things work.
More amazed at the  fools who believe employers are only out to improve the lot of the workers.

Perhaps we should do a UKIP and  promise to do away with all legislation on wage floors and let people work for a pound an hour?