Had lunch on the Marina today which reminded me that according to The Mail (and Mr Drummond), an announcement about the sale of Jackson's Landing was supposed to be 'imminent' several weeks ago. In fact, I believe at the time it was expected to be within two weeks.
Does anyone know what happened as there has been no such announcemen to my knowledge?
Was told a quick turn over of jacksons landing by the council netted then 250k profit.
I think we can discount that because were it it to be true Drummond would have plastered it all over his Mail column and the council PR machine would have made sure it was on the front page of The Mail. The Council have a habit of jumping the gun on these things. Remember them adopting the roads on the Marina in July 2010? Never happened.
There'll be a 'last minute hitch' which is usually put down to legal delays.
Drummond's 'two weeks' claim was made at the beginning of March.
http://www.hartlepoolmail.co.uk/news/local/mayor-hopeful-on-jacksons-landing-1-4307970 (http://www.hartlepoolmail.co.uk/news/local/mayor-hopeful-on-jacksons-landing-1-4307970)
Gotta give the guy his due, the place has been sat there for years and now we are hopefully seeing the rebirth of what could be a fantastic asset to the town.
I have grown old waiting for something to happen.
The mayor should take something for his premature announcement problem.
There could be a raffle organised for blowing it up.
Quote from: Vincent on July 30, 2012, 01: PM
Gotta give the guy his due, the place has been sat there for years and now we are hopefully seeing the rebirth of what could be a fantastic asset to the town.
Got to give the guy his due ??????
Where have you been for the last 10 years, "The Guy" has had a fantastic "World Class Salary" for those years and has achieved next to sweet FA, his handling of the Grot Spot issues within Hartlepool have proven to be a complete & utter waste of time.
His oft quoted statements of "Master Plans & World Class Facilities" are an insult to intelligence of the general population of Hartlepool, there has been no inprovement in the condition of the Odeon, the Longscar Hall, The Market Hotel, Morrison Hall etc etc etc.
The fact that Jacksons Landing appears to have been purchased by HBC means very little until the actual financial arrangements are made known to the council tax payers of the town, & if the financial reports produced for the Tall Ships fiasco are anything to go by i wont be holding my breath that an open accurate & transparent financial report will be presented to a full council meeting open to members of the public.
Another 'World Class' Seaton Masterplan announced in the Mail tonight.
The only flaw I see in the 'plan' is there is no money to carry it through.
Bit like me announcing I have plans to run a Ferrari/Rolls Royce car hire service from a massive 100 acre 'World Class' garage I am going to build-just as soon as someone (stupid)gives me the money to build it all!
Its his swansong.
Fred
The Guy was voted in twice fair and square by the people of Hartlepool and the job pays a handsome salary, accept it.
He cannot be blamed for not sorting out the grot spots at least he has made it an issue which will in time be sorted out.
All those buidings you mention are owned by people who will not allow demolition or renovation and they have a right in law to refuse so what can the Mayor do except keep the spotlight on them.
His declarations about Hartlepool having world class facilities are I admit a bit silly but you have got to agree he is positive about the town.
Would you rather Jacksons Landing is left to rot or pulled down or opened back up as a fantastic retail outlet it once was, I know what I would rather have.
I have read on here time and again about the Tall Ships "fiasco" but I and my family thought it was a fantastic event which advertised Hartlepool to the rest of Britain.
Yes lets have financial transparency, lets see what it costs but in any case I think it will be money well spent
quote:"I have read on here time and again about the Tall Ships "fiasco" but I and my family thought it was a fantastic event which advertised Hartlepool to the rest of Britain."
I know you mean well, Vincent but what you are suggesting is that, as long as everyone enjoyed the event, it doesn't really matter how little financial control was exercised. I too enjoyed the Tall Ships but I would suggest that budgeting to spend £800,000 and then actually spending £2.14m and then laying down a smoke screen of spin to mask the fact is not the sign of a well run council - and it's a long way from being the only example.
Quote from: Vincent on July 30, 2012, 07: PM
Would you rather Jacksons Landing is left to rot or pulled down or opened back up as a fantastic retail outlet it once was, I know what I would rather have.
Let me get this straight.
Jackson's Landing used to be a retail outlet.
It failed.
The building became derelict.
The Council buy the gutted shell.
It is to be transformed (once again) into a 'fantastic retail outlet'.
Err...............hang on, why didn't the last owners make it into a 'fantastic retail outlet'?
Possibly because they did not have the advanced business skill of Hartlepool Council...yeah that must be it!
Quote from: Vincent on July 30, 2012, 07: PM
I have read on here time and again about the Tall Ships "fiasco" but I and my family thought it was a fantastic event which advertised Hartlepool to the rest of Britain.
Can you confirm that you and your family visited 1.5 times every day and spent the claimed 60 quid(?) per person per day-as the Council say you did.
Did your family come on one of the (claimed) 10,000 motorbikes?
Quote from: mk1 on July 30, 2012, 05: PM
Another 'World Class' Seaton Masterplan announced in the Mail tonight.
The only flaw I see in the 'plan' is there is no money to carry it through.
Bit like me announcing I have plans to run a Ferrari/Rolls Royce car hire service from a massive 100 acre 'World Class' garage I am going to build-just as soon as someone (stupid)gives me the money to build it all!
I think you might be being a bit unfair this time. As I read it, in order to have any chance of getting funding, HBC has to have a plan in place first. - i.e. 'here is what we would like to do, will you help fund it?'
Of course, that doesn't explain why HBC presents the plan as good news - it will only be
that if the money to fund it is found - if it isn't, then it will end up in the same drawer as the floating hotel, the Church Street Trams, The Imperial War Museum, the Tall Ships Centre and the 15,000 jobs the Enterprise Zone will bring etc etc......
Quote from: Vincent on July 30, 2012, 07: PM
so what can the Mayor do except keep the spotlight on them.
He could refrain from saying he was going to sort them out for a start.
If you make this promise the centre-piece of your claim to be an effective Mayor then it follows the failure to achieve your boast brands you a (self-admitted) failure.
Actually, he's done much worse than that. The last time I saw any figures for this, Drummond was claiming to have resolved over 60+ Grot Spots. This included a whole raft of minor stuff that would have happened anyway, whether he had taken an interest or not. What it didn't include, is any of the recognisable Grot Spots we would all have no trouble identifying - and in the case of the Morrison Hall, it looks like all we have done is taken a problem liability off the hands of the previous owner.
local issue nothing from perseus
I have never mentioned the Tall Ships being a failure in any way, other than in a financial sense but my point was to highlight the inept management in many of the Master Plans that have been proposed over the mayors tenure in office.
As mentioned by steveL... Morrison Hall was purchased for around £60,000 + costs & repairs to the building, was the mayors idea for solving the grot spots to buy them up & let them be HBC owned grot spots ?
The world class retail outlet aka.... Jacksons Landing has always proven to be a white elephant, so any hopes of it being returned to a "Shop" is wishful thinking.
If you want a real world look at how HBC waste money on pie in the sky projects..... take a walk down Baden Street.... a pet project of a labour councillor that has comprehensively failed at a cost of £465,000 to the rate payers of the town.
This project had a 2 page spread in the mail some months ago trumpeting the World Class idea to regenerate the street..... its an even bigger S***H*** now than it was when the project was first proposed.
I do try to look at the positives in any proposals that are aimed at improving the town, the potential for the regeneration of Seatons Park would be a positive for the town, the on going work in the Burn Valley is also a step in the right direction, but i have seen too many pie in the sky projects turn out to be a total waste of time & resources.
The initial pre-opening case for Jackson's Landing made it via a consultants report compared it to the plans for Dalton Park (which hadn't happened at the time), Newcastle Quays and other such 'factory outlets'. Thery were hailed as being the latest boom businesses and everything was to be wonderful.
A few years later, a similar consultant report was commissioned for the Church Street/Mecca areas which straddled the railway line. It mostly recommended more retail sheds for the area but interestingly, it derided the whole original case for Jackson's Landing claiming it was too far away from Middleton Grange to have stood any chance of success. This doesn't say much for the existing units on the retail parks but it does demonstrate the habit of consultant studies of starting with the desired answer and then working out some way of justifying it.
The original concept of Jackson's Landing was that, together with the Historic Quay, it would attract visitors to the town but the visitors never came in the required numbers to cover the rents of the units inside. The Marina development as a whole stalled once the TDC was wound up and things were handed over to the developers and HBC. There werre no more ships to be restored, no Imperial War Museum and no Tall Ships Centre - all of the things that Jackson's Landing was relying on to pull in the visitors.
My experiance of the old Jacksons Landing was that it was a fantastic retail outlet, dont know why it didnt work but can only assume high rents.
Any new purchaser will have to have promises from HBC of Enterprise Zone like low starter rates to get any new businesses of the ground
I would like to see something like Newcastles Discovery Museum developed near to or in the JL Building, Amsterdam has another fantastic facility similar to the Discovery Museum which is perfect for our climate (wind and rain)
I do not agree with Mk1 that the Major should not making "promises" (did he?) the issues would not have such a high profile on here and in the local press if he had not made them an issue. The current financial crisis (money) and the planning laws must have caused the delays in dealing with the grot spots
I attended the Tall Ships just about every day and spent a chunk of money - did you?
I spent a packet at the tall ships too ...but it was with stall holders that will never be seen again ...no real benefit of Hartlepool.
Hancock Museum is a fabulous place too ...can't see us getting the millions it did though. Maybe HBC should invest in lottery tickets.
Quote from: Vincent on July 31, 2012, 03: PM
I attended the Tall Ships just about every day and spent a chunk of money - did you?
No but according to the Council figures I visited 6 times over 4 days and spent a total of 340 quid!
(http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/3512/jacksonslanding1999.jpg) (http://img38.imageshack.us/i/jacksonslanding1999.jpg/)
£340 ...that is a lot of felt hats, falafel and burgers !
Maybe they assumed we were all dining haute cuisine silver service, easy mistake to make when that is what they got.
Don't why everyone is sudenly talking about re-opening Jacksons Landing as a retail unit because that's not the plan. From what I've heard, they're aiming for a mixture of offices, flats and restaurants/wine bars.
The rents at JL were around £14,000 per year at the time but this was more or less doubled when you added on the 'service charge' and business rates.
It won't work as a retail unit, in Hartlepool we do not have the spending power, 70% of the residents are unemployed or pensioners.
We are overloaded with shops and houses in this town.
Quote from: testing times on July 31, 2012, 05: PM
Don't why everyone is sudenly talking about re-opening Jacksons Landing as a retail unit because that's not the plan. From what I've heard, they're aiming for a mixture of offices, flats and restaurants/wine bars.
The rents at JL were around £14,000 per year at the time but this was more or less doubled when you added on the 'service charge' and business rates.
Offices, Flats, Restaurants, Wine Bars.......... hate to be the one to tell you this, but Hartlepool is overflowing with empty offices, flats, restaurants & wine bars/pubs.
If this is the intention of HBC i wonder if they have considered the impact that it would have on the already struggling businesses at the Marina, but having said that.......... they will have a "Master Plan" for the area.
On the cost of the rates for Jacksons Landing... i seem to remember the owners doing a runner leaving a £600,000 rates debt.
A link to how others see us
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1485187
The photo album for the wrecked Jackson's Landing
http://www.flickr.com/photos/well_wasp/sets/72157610890659091/with/2335111123/
Another less than positive 'review' of the town.
He notices the way the roads have been allowed to cut off the Marina from the rest of the town.
http://kulturekapitalblog.com/2012/04/30/hartlepool-waving-or-drowning/
This whole area feels like a large, damp squib: With its drab and inadequate signage, dislocation from the town centre and capitulation to down market out of town and fast food outlets reached by car, this is an area which will struggle to make a positive impact on the town or visitors without a complete rethink. The area is crying out for a bold vision and masterplan, without which it will just be another example of an opportunity lost through poor planning and execution. It's a sorry sight and Hartlepool undoubtedly deserves better
Whilst on the subject of pedestrians v cars I note the massive reduction of pavement being carried out on the Oxford rd/Stocton rd corner. It looks dangerous to to me.
Just been told that bellway have bought it ?
Rather have an independant mayor IF we have to have a mayor.
consider the following words: thread - topic - relevance
Quote from: mk1 on July 31, 2012, 08: PM
Another less than positive 'review' of the town.
He notices the way the roads have been allowed to cut off the Marina from the rest of the town.
http://kulturekapitalblog.com/2012/04/30/hartlepool-waving-or-drowning/
This whole area feels like a large, damp squib: With its drab and inadequate signage, dislocation from the town centre and capitulation to down market out of town and fast food outlets reached by car, this is an area which will struggle to make a positive impact on the town or visitors without a complete rethink. The area is crying out for a bold vision and masterplan, without which it will just be another example of an opportunity lost through poor planning and execution. It's a sorry sight and Hartlepool undoubtedly deserves better
Whilst on the subject of pedestrians v cars I note the massive reduction of pavement being carried out on the Oxford rd/Stocton rd corner. It looks dangerous to to me.
massive is a bit ott isnt it, they have simply made a junction better for larger vehicles coming down oxford road and turning onto stockton road and as for dangerous, behave if anything it reduces the risk of a large vehicle vehicle clipping the kerb with the rear wheels, if you want to complain about that work at the junction complain about Tangent the contractors who manage to make a job stretch out for monthe, these are the same contractors who carried out the work on catcote road at mowbray road junction, truro drive/fens shops and wynyard road they may well be the cheapest but surely another contractor who can actually bring in the job on time would be worth the few bob extra
Reading through this thread, it's still not clear if the place has been sold or not - only rumours from what I read.
That's the point, isn't it? If it were true then it would have been all over the Mail and certainly in Drummond's column.
So far we must have paid a reserved £50,000 for someone else's (preferred businesses and developers) business plans. They will then decide to buy or not to buy.
Sometimes if developers get the planning permission, they really do not care if we end up with a raft of empty flats or units, they just need to sell a few to make a profit and anything else is a bonus. These days, desperation will make it an even more desirable deal though the concerns raised on this thread about viability should be highlighted.
It is so sad that we have such a prime area run so down. But then looking at the whole of the Marina to which it is linked, then we should note that it is like a disease that needs to be stopped!
I am absolutely confident that things could be done but it will take a tight fist around finance and we just do not have that here. When money comes in, wages at the top go up as they say they are worth it for the added responsibility and the workers on the ground are ground into the ground with the added pressure with no extra recognition or remuneration. It is a sad state of affairs and I would love HBC to simply read this thread and think bloody minded that they should secretly take the advice of the posters and get things sorted without corporate greed or hospitality. That is where the problems hit at the Tall Ships.
I really cannot understand why people in charge wouldn't like to get these things really sorted to please the people. They must know that lots of people are annoyed about things. ON ITV news a few days ago, a woman summed the wariness of the public up by saying "They get in and do what they want and not what they said". This is why you get repeat voting if voting at all.
I think a video of Jackson's Landing would be useful, Marky the Movie Maker could get on to it. It might just become the third in the series of a classic drive to get rid of the real grot spots.
I feel now is the time if the owners are being so stubborn to penalise these people. Despite the law going with them, there is that which goes against, and we could provide penalties for loss of tourism with such dirty and dangerous buildings which blight our town. If we did that, we might own the buildings for free and also have a little honey pot of money to do them up a little.
That might sound easy but sitting back and just feeding the media wit hope for us is certainly not a suitable alternative and that is what we have got at the moment. The owners are left without name and shame at our expense. No wonder they don't do anything, would you when they are not pushed to?