BBC News review.

[Inspector Knacker]

I still can't comprehend how they managed to control a local Party. I could not follow them if they paid me to, I just couldn't take them seriously.

[eddy]

Nah I think you miss read me; I had ve no love for local council level corruption.
Who mentioned corruption? Incompetence, yes, but corruption...please explain.

Hasnt the post made a career from calling out labour as being corrupt / cronyism?  Go trawl back through the many examples on here over the past x years.  Give the number one reporter from Las Vegas a shout too for her "impartial" views........

Am not going to scramble to defend the record of the local party, as much as you want me to (or in some way feel I am obliged to do). 
I don't want or need you to defend them.
Glad we cleared that up, there is a bit of a feeling I get on here that you are being held to task for not towing the Hpost party lines

You really need to stop jumping to conclusions about anyone who dare admit to supporting labour.
You have that Labour trait that every who's not with you is against you.

Nah I dont, I work in property and construction and am employed by many members of the conservative party.  We may not agree on politics but I dont hold a grudge / some pointless idealistic vendetta.  I can see why they adopt their point of view and they can see why I adopt mine.  Its way too tribal on here these days

Am also aware of the parties failing at national level.  However, this doesn't detract from the fact a lot of what is readily blamed on labour was probably not of their own making, as I say the Torys have played a blinder cutting local gov funding and leaving it up to the councils to deliver the bad news.
Here we go again, heard it all before, never out to do with you. I shudder at the thought of what  the Dumpling Dictator would have done with a much larger budget, try justifying that.

Err, I thought you said above I wasnt being called to account for the actions of others?

  This is a pretty big part of the "What has labour done for us" argument, with two hands tided behind their backs.  Its OK though, so long as you vote Tory Ben will come along with his cash hose, am pretty sure that's not very democratic too either, only funding places that vote for your party.
Sounds OK to me compared to what your shouty candidate was offering, a good part of it revolving around 'Ben's'  Freeport, she wasn't too bothered about that.

Mr Cash hose, time will tell.  I am not so bitter as to begrudge investment, but soundbites and funding enabling works projects will only go so far to fixing the issues of employment in the north east.  If they can keep the cash turned on to keep buying political favour then so be it.  You need to wait 10+years to measure the benefit / impact.  I stand by my previous point though, future investment is only really a restoration of funding to the region bringing back what was previously cut.  Like selling you your old car back 

There are many locations around the UK where Labour have run effective councils (Manchester, Preston etc) or where the party isn't loathed at a local level.  I wouldn't hold on to the notion labour are dead, democracy in itself will be dead without an effective opposition that actually wants to govern again one day.   
You just don't get it do you.... if your heroes are so good, why are they crumbling before your eyes.

Ben wasnt that far ahead of Burnham in % share of the vote at the mayoral elections.  Trafford council also switched from conservative to lab.  Am not claiming the local elections were a resounding success, however I can remember similar chat about the Torys being finished after several GE's.  I wouldnt count your eggs just yet, as tempting as it may be

As a side, its nice to have the courage and conviction to stick to your core values, rather than run to whoever promises the biggest hill of beans.  Glory supporters much?
What core values are those, as most of your support has started to drift away over the years it must suggest the Party has very flexible core values. You just never noticed the Labour train was taking a different route but decided to stay onboard because getting off could mean challenging your own core values. 'Conviction' eh...convincing yourself? 

Nah am fine with where I am politically,  I aint no union man or stereotype wokehead.  I am for a balance of both the public and private sector, properly funding local authorities, schools, NHS etc.  The biggest employer in Hartlepool is the council which has lost a considerable portion of its workfoce.  These were lower paid jobs some of which may end up at one of our 9 food banks.  You pay for it either way, via the state supporting people more than those on the right feel happy with or via crime, poor health and deprivation. 

its interesting how Boris is going for the big state model though with all this levelling up chat.  I wonder how long the free market upstarts in the party will stomach buying the favour of folks up here at the expense of the rural shires

[Inspector Knacker]

Nah am fine with where I am politically,  I aint no union man or stereotype wokehead.  I am for a balance of both the public and private sector, properly funding local authorities, schools, NHS etc.  The biggest employer in Hartlepool is the council which has lost a considerable portion of its workfoce.  These were lower paid jobs some of which may end up at one of our 9 food banks.  You pay for it either way, via the state supporting people more than those on the right feel happy with or via crime, poor health and deprivation. 

its interesting how Boris is going for the big state model though with all this levelling up chat.  I wonder how long the free market upstarts in the party will stomach buying the favour of folks up here at the expense of the rural shires

Your trouble is you actually believe the only Party who can save us is Labour.
All other Party's have some evil trait that excludes them in your world.
Treat politics like anyone else trying to flog you something and go for the best deal for you, and your family....wisen up.
You treat your politics like a substitute religion.
You have your 'God' figure, your commandments, your bible and an unshakeable devotion and belief in paradise brought about by...... politicians....and there the story falls flat on it's face children.

[eddy]

I am happy and open to reconsidering political views if I see sufficient evidence to the contrary, hell even Mr Positive Houchin is hard to ignore or give credit for what he has been doing.  Re-nationalising an airport is very un-tory, although the political goal posts have been moving for a while now.  I will also admit this is why labour faces even more of an identity crisis, which is helped no end by the sh!t storm at local level.

That said, the Tory's still have a way to go to win me around given their track record on public sector investment / support.  Call it bloody minded or whatever but its where I am with it   

[Inspector Knacker]

Treat politicians like your buying a car. Silver tongued salesman flogging you paradise on Earth if only you'd test drive their Party.  Ignore the waffle, you ask what's in it for you and yours and what's in it for the town in general....the rest is irrelevant.
Instead of them using you, you use them. They have no scruples, so don't you. I was a union rep and as a gormless newcomer to a dispute quoted 'principles' at which point my union boss slapped me down, "Principles? ... forget that nonsense, you can't eat principles, negotiate".
A lesson for life, high moral hopes inevitably clash with reality, ...and lose.

[Lucy Lass-Tick]

I am happy and open to reconsidering political views if I see sufficient evidence to the contrary, hell even Mr Positive Houchin is hard to ignore or give credit for what he has been doing.  Re-nationalising an airport is very un-tory, although the political goal posts have been moving for a while now.  I will also admit this is why labour faces even more of an identity crisis, which is helped no end by the sh!t storm at local level.

That said, the Tory's still have a way to go to win me around given their track record on public sector investment / support.  Call it bloody minded or whatever but its where I am with it

The boundaries have been blurred - just look at the support that Sunak has given individuals and companies throughout the pandemic. His furlough scheme could be viewed as serious socialism.

[eddy]

Yea, that bit is interesting.  See also semi-nationaliising the railways again.  Pretty sure Jezza mentioned something like this and got roasted

It probs appeals to ex labour voters, who arent total free market types / trad blue voters.  Question is how can they maintain their claims of fiscal and deficit responsibility, appease their older core following and keep the money going 

[Inspector Knacker]

Yea, that bit is interesting.  See also semi-nationaliising the railways again.  Pretty sure Jezza mentioned something like this and got roasted
You get a policy like this and you moan, you must have agreed with it because you quoted  'jezza'. So if Tory does it = bad. If 'Jezza' does it = good. As for Jezza, I wouldn't let him near a tri-ang chuff chuff. Jeez.

It probs appeals to ex labour voters, who arent total free market types / trad blue voters.  Question is how can they maintain their claims of fiscal and deficit responsibility, appease their older core following and keep the money going
So if that's the case you wouldn't do all these things because of the cost....? But if 'Jezza' does it, I can see you sat there like a nodding dog praising his actions.

[eddy]

Am all for re-nationalising the railways regardless of who does it, its not without a sense of irony the german state owned railway runs and profits from UK passengers.  I am happy the gov have the balls to go back on their own policy.

The point I was making was more how some policies originally championed by the left / labour are now being brought in by the conservatives, when at a the time the conservatives were pretty vocally against.

[Inspector Knacker]

You seem to actually believe Labour invented everything. If the Tories, Lib Dims or any other Party came up with a change of policy or a new policy, you'd claim they're following Labour's ideas or are influenced by Labour 'thinking'.
What you fail to mention is when rail privatisation came about, Labour complained..... but when in power for 13 years did nothing at all to change it, or bus deregulation. The triumph of pragmatism over ideals.... always a bad sign for a Party who drones on about it's ideals.

[eddy]

I think I used the word "some" not "all", there you go talking in absolute definiteness again.  its all a bit too black and white for you isnt it? 

The cost to bring the railways back into state owned control, less than 3 years after they were sold off, would have been huge, and thats before you weigh in the litigation costs from the companies recently awarded contracts to run the trains.  I can see why it wasnt an appealing prospect for a newly elected government.  The gov at the time did take action with railtrack because it was, frankly, dangerous, bringing it back into state ownership  The Conservatives are now rolling back on the remainder of a policy of their own making after it completely fell to bits.  But thats OK yea, they cant do any wrong really.

Re: buses,
funny story, back in the day the Metro in newcastle had visits from several dignitaries from Europe who were impressed by the interconnected nature of its design.  At the time the local authority ran the system which was design to have buses running around the suburbs feeding people to stations which then brought them into the city.  This was to prevent the city centre becoming clogged up with buses.  it was seen as a truly innovative example of a modern transit system 

As soon as the buses were sold to private operators the new owners soon realised they could make way more money taking people into the city rather than the hub stations, so they did that, and the city centre became clogged and polluted with hundreds of buses all competing. The Metro meanwhile lost a lot of money and a lot of the planned expansion works were canned.  Fast forward to 1999 (Labour) and the people of London voted to take them back into public control because they had the same problem, using a system that isnt too dissimilar to that being proposed for the railways today. 

[Inspector Knacker]

I think I used the word "some" not "all", there you go talking in absolute definiteness again.  its all a bit too black and white for you isnt it? 
Yes I do, it's preferable to waffle and bluster.
The cost to bring the railways back into state owned control, less than 3 years after they were sold off, would have been huge, and thats before you weigh in the litigation costs from the companies recently awarded contracts to run the trains.  I can see why it wasnt an appealing prospect for a newly elected government.  The gov at the time did take action with railtrack because it was, frankly, dangerous, bringing it back into state ownership  The Conservatives are now rolling back on the remainder of a policy of their own making after it completely fell to bits.  But thats OK yea, they cant do any wrong really.
Labour had thirteen years in continuous office, but did nothing. No good slagging off the opposition if you endorse their policies by not contesting them out of office and ignoring them in office.
Re: buses,
funny story, back in the day the Metro in newcastle had visits from several dignitaries from Europe who were impressed by the interconnected nature of its design.  At the time the local authority ran the system which was design to have buses running around the suburbs feeding people to stations which then brought them into the city.  This was to prevent the city centre becoming clogged up with buses.  it was seen as a truly innovative example of a modern transit system 

As soon as the buses were sold to private operators the new owners soon realised they could make way more money taking people into the city rather than the hub stations, so they did that, and the city centre became clogged and polluted with hundreds of buses all competing. The Metro meanwhile lost a lot of money and a lot of the planned expansion works were canned.  Fast forward to 1999 (Labour) and the people of London voted to take them back into public control because they had the same problem, using a system that isnt too dissimilar to that being proposed for the railways today.

We're on the same wavelength here, I imagine Ridley envisaged a world where every driver owned a minibus and drove around competing in some mad world for custom. However I will contradict you on the Labour Party taking back control in London. They were never de-regulated in the first place, so avoided the chaos the rest of the country endured. They had route tendering and controlled all routes, fares, timetabling etc as well as the age, spec of vehicles.
We were supposed to have competition, we ended up with a knot of companies controlling most services across the country. We ended up with virtual monopolies
I never had a car, or needed one till Stagecoach took over, then I was back on the road within the year[/b ]