Light the Blue Touch Paper

[Tommy]

SteveL I would like to see all councilors reminded that as you say its an "allowance" and not a"salary", greedy lot! 

[one direction]

So the allowance level is recommended by an independent panel and the councillors then vote to accept or not? Is that how it works? How is the independent panel selected? How do you get to be on this panel? Can I apply ir is it like renumeration committees for boards of directors where the people on the renumeration panel of company A are directors of Company B who have their renemeration panel made up of Directors from Company C, who have their renumberation panel consisting of directors of company A? All totally independent in theory but all scratching each others backs!

Could the allowances panel recomend allowances be reduced to zero?

How about the allowances panel setting allowances at only the amount councillors could prove they had lost? Or how about setting allowances linked to tax paid subject to a cap. If you pay no income tax, council tax etc then you dont receive any allowances, if you pasy more than say £20,000 tax a year then you can have the full £6,000 allowance?

[The Great Dictator]

Councillors on benefits or pension do not benefit in any way.

Those who work for a living lose out financially so should be compensated for that.

[one direction]

Those who work for a living lose out financially so should be compensated for that.

Does that not depend on wether the councillor's employer gives them time off with pay or not?

[DRiddle]

Here's how I see it.

Let's suppose a certain councillor was about to claim £13,010 in allowances, and let's say he partly tried to justify it by claiming he goes to around 80 meetings a year.

That would work out (If that were true) at around £162 per meeting. Let's give him (or her) the benefit of the doubt and agree that's true, and that each meeting is around 2 hours in length.

That would make each meeting worth around £80 an hour to said councillor.

Now, let's suppose the councillors day job was, oooh I dunno, let's say 'driving instructor'.

Your typical driving instructor is on tops £30 an hour (less petrol and all the other expenses of running a car).

So, by the true rationale of why 'allowances' were brought in, that councillor would in fact 'owe' that tax payer around £100 for every meeting he attended.

I guess the devils in the detail.

[Tommy]

Hey David I want a job like that!

It must leave a teacher of our future generations a little short changed in a comparison: Driving Instructor to a School Teacher, I know which deserves the money more too!

[DRiddle]

I do ok with my wage. 

I'm fortunate enough to have had the opportunity to work hard and progress in my sector.

I have aspirations to continue to progress and provide for my family, but I don't see a councillors allowance as being the appropriate avenue to do that.

Being a councillor should be done as a sense of duty to others. People might be sceptical about me saying that, due to the stereotypical image of some 'politicians', but for what it's worth I mean it.

I don't actually teach anymore either for what it's worth. :-)

But anyway. Roll on Thursday.

[one direction]

Councillor Riddle, can I ask if you get time off with pay to attend council meetings or do you get time off without pay?

[DRiddle]

I work about 50-70 hours a week although I'm paid to work 37 contractually.

My line manager is aware of the hours myself and others in roles similar to mine really work.

So when I can get to a meeting during 9am-5pm, I go comfortable in the knowledge that even taking the time for the meeting into account, I comfortably do way over my contracted hours.

So in that respect, I guess the answer to your question is 'neither'.

I realise the way your question was framed (whether intentionally or not) leaves me open to criticism whatever my answer, but that's the reality of how I've been able to juggle to role of councillor with my job so far.

[one direction]

So in that respect, I guess the answer to your question is 'neither'.

So if I understand you right? You can take time off work during the day to attend meetings because you make the time up outside the 9.00am to 5.oopm window? Isn't that called flexi-time?

[DRiddle]

http://www.hartlepoolmail.co.uk/news/local/we-don-t-want-more-money-hartlepool-councillors-tell-the-mail-they-won-t-vote-for-pay-rise-1-6705891

U-Turn or all part of the plan?

[Tommy]

David, I feel that had the Labour party voted for the "salary" increase, it simply would of been the final nail ahead of the elections for the towns MP.

I do think again that this was clever use and the continued control of the Hartlepool/Peterlee Press in reporting this in print ahead of the meeting. Why have a blinking meeting now! I think its disgraceful that the the Councillors gave the Sheffield Echo information on how they were intending to vote before the meeting, this report in the paper has been staged and those Councillors that told that told them how they were voting have fallen in to the whole clever scenario.

Steve Gibbon, George Morris were clever in being unavailable to comment, George Springer and John Lauderdale in my opinion did things correctly.

[DRiddle]

Not so. The phone calls to the councillors yesterday caused a lot of unrest in a certain group. People are entitled to think what they want, but I don't think for one minute Labour have come out of this well.

[Tommy]

The way that the report reads in the 4,000 or so nightly copies sold here in Hartlepool is that the Labour Party (being 1st in the editorial line up) said it first and all the others followed their lead.

David the letter you wrote saying it was "morally wrong to accept the rise" was a good thing to do, the right thing to do.

I am just waiting for the next big "balls up" (after the Wilcox & the pub in the cemetery) from the party that rules, then its bye bye to the current MP. Between now and that deciding election they cant afford the sniff of a scandal.

[steveL]

Nothing unsettles Labour councillors more than an 'out-of-the-blue' phone call about what they think on a particular issue. The reason is simple enough - they don't know what they think until the Leader tells them what it is - hence the party-wide statement given to The Mail covering the view of all Labour councillors (variation not permitted).

In such circumstances, only one phone call to the Labour Leader is necessary and we never get to know, officially at least, what individual Labour councillors actually think.

For example, I did hear that Allan Barclay put forward a plan to have increases to the basic allowance linked to the price of a pint of Strongarm but I'll never know for sure if it was true.