The revolution... is a dictatorship of the exploited against the exploiters

[Not Stephen Hadow]

As for uniting sadly and regretably I think the chance PHF had has been wasted in many ways.

I think they should have been doing a lot more before now if they want a right result come May 3rd.

I think PHF is an idea whose time has come. I agree it would have been better to have started earlier but that is always the case and as Lao Tzu said "A journey of a thousand miles must begin with a single step." If you take forming PHF as the first step then standing candidates in this election is the second step, which still leaves a long, long way to go.

So apart from starting earlier? What are the other "many ways" has PHF wasted their chances?

[notinshadow]

Brassed off and Not Stephen ..agree 100% with both..

Quote..So apart from starting earlier? What are the other "many ways" has PHF wasted their chances?

I would have started much earlier..
I would have had every door knocked atleast once.
I would have wrote to each household personally.
I would have have had cars with speaker knocking about like someone mentioned the other day.
I would have as many shops, pubs, clubs, lamp posts, houses covered in PHF..
I would have had meeting set up in each area so people could come along and hear more about the party.
I would have explained a long time ago what the party stood for.
I would have had a dirty tricks campain set up long ago..

I wouldn't have been happy to field my daughter or other that have no chance of winning but there to make the numbers up..

I would have told people long ago what it is we actually want to achieve.

I would have told everyman, women and dog that would listen what the rest are doing badly..

I would have made it clear about the corruption in this town
I would have told them all about the voting records of the indys and others pretending not to be labour but really are.
I would have highlighted how PHF are going to do things differently..
I would have done a great deal more to let the people of Hartlepool know where their money is really going than posting on here.
I would have highlighted how Indylabs are taking the p**s out the voters.
I would have had a better website, where you can see the people you are voting for..
I would have had a forum so people can chat to them they are voting for..
I would have driven everyone f***i*g mad with PHF.
That's the start of what I would have done.. and in two years time when I know I will field against the weakest of this years winners, I might put my time where my mouth is and have a go myself.


That's the start of how I would have done it..once I have had ten minutes to think about it i might post more but off the top of my head that';s what I would have done.

[christine blakey]

For the members new and old, banter should be friendly and we should really stop and listen to the message... perseus was put off by the down right nasty attitudes of people who post on here, not all but some.

Everyone should be welcome as I assume that everyone using this site simply wants what is best for Hartlepool, especially when we are in a bad recession.

Anyone who gets any credit for posting (such as the first post on here) is lashed upon with the aim they will not post anymore.  If there is any other point, then it is not getting through, so behaviour modification would be useful.

Maybe we could now work on things up to the election and even better, after it, regardless of the voting and positioning.

I am pleased that new posters have come on here, with messages that need to be seen.  There is no need to disect posts but to read, respect and work together.  The snipes and knock me downs are not necessary and simply show that the good of this site is brought down by a lack of regulation.   However, it is a lot better than it used to be so hopefully we are going in the right direction.

[christine blakey]

I have summarised some of the problems regarding Full Council on my leaflet.  I hope it helps as perseus is right, we need to get the message out to all and sundry in order to really drive for change.

I must highlight that in August 2012 (and this has been mentioned on Hartlepool First website) "Hear 'n' Hartlepool" Group took a petition to the Full Council.  We were asking for a full debate and an independent investigation into the running of the Council.  It might have sounded harsh but it was needed as is noted on this site.

We should be asking every Councillor who agreed no action to explain themselves.  This is what I am doing at the moment (with a letter to Secretary of State) but it needs a town effort.

We should ask:  What would the electorate think if they knew this detail?

More and more people are getting angry, and this is especially when noting that there is a ring fencing of funding so that the likes of the CAB losses is agreed.  This is wrong.  People would be outraged if they knew more of the background.

The only problem with this site is that it allows hateful terms to be used, in relation to sexuality, disability etc.  This does not help as it means that ligitimate calls that it simply slates and hates are made.

I suggest that posters think carefully about this and those who do it should stop.  If they dont stop, they should be banned as the good of the site gets embroiled in that and it loses the aims of exposing wrong doing.

HTH might just get more national and even local exposure if that is considered and curbed?

[notinshadow]

Christine like your campain that's to little far to late..seee ya..

Perseus I missed that as I only had a couple of minutes to type what came of the top of my head.

You are right of course, the whole social network was overlooked and I totally get the power of that after seeing how Mayor Drummond has capitalized on it over the years.

One thing I have learned from him..

Also reading through your post highlights many other ways I had not thought off.

[Ryehill]

  Notinshadow, you are obviously very politically aware but I suspect that you have never been involved in a political campaign. There are 44k households in Hartlepool. On average a person can deliver about 200 leaflets per hour. So to cover the whole town with just one leaflet would take 220 man hours. A mammoth task. This is why you rarely see a leaflet from a political party in between elections.

[notinshadow]

I would work smart not this wishy washy way they all seem to go about it.

[notinshadow]

Or about 75 people 3 hours each? Or 30 odd people half a day? Are there not 30 odd people who frequent this forum who feel strongly enough to help with the distribution side of things? Dont quit already. there isnt a leaflet to deliver. . . yet


You have got the hang of this but I still wouldn't even play it that way personally.

[Not Stephen Hadow]

  Notinshadow, you are obviously very politically aware but I suspect that you have never been involved in a political campaign. There are 44k households in Hartlepool. On average a person can deliver about 200 leaflets per hour. So to cover the whole town with just one leaflet would take 220 man hours. A mammoth task. This is why you rarely see a leaflet from a political party in between elections.

Good point Ryehill, many people think it simple to bash out a leaflet and push it through letterboxes. I used to work for a promotions company and we used to organise local events. Arranging venues, printing flyers, delivering flyers, getting radio, tV and press advertising in place. This all takes a huge amount of time and costs a lot of money.

Consider a leaflet for every propertry in Hartlepool, just a simple A4 sized, folded once, black and white, printed both sides would cost in the region of £700 - £800. So in addition to having to work 8 hours a day, 7 days a week for about a month to put them through letterboxes you'd need to find that money (plus 200 an hour? maybe in street houses or blocks of flats but no way you can hit that rate in estates with drives and garden gates).

Once you'd done that then you could start your next programme of knocking on every door. Assuming you knock, wait 20 seconds to see if anyone answers and then move onto the next door you could possibly do 2 doors a minute. If someone answers of course you could easily be there another 30 seconds or another 10 minutes, or anywhere in between. Say you average 5 minutes at doors that people answer and 1 in 10 actually does answer. That gives you an average of around 1 minute per door.

So let's revisit the original calculation but with 60 per hour rather than 200 and round figures it would take you at 8 hours a day, 7 days a week, somewhere in the region of three months to knock on every door.

So now we have someone who can afford to pay £700 for leaflets and then take four months off work and devote 8 hours a day, every day, rain, snow or shine, to delivering leaflets and knocking on doors!

After this you can write 44,000 individual letters (another £700 for paper and printer ink) and then start trudging round the streets for another month to deliver them. Unless you want to post them? So add another £200 for envelopes and another £20,000 for stamps (assuming second class post). Actually you might be able to do a deal with the Post Office and get them bulk delivered but even that's not cheap.

Of course you haven't even started driving round the streets with your loudspeaker car yet, nor have you been in to speak to all the shop owners, publicans and landlords to persuade them to put up your posters. Nor have you been round putting posters on lamposts (and then gone round taking them down again when the council threatens you with legal action if you don't).

So while I think the programme you outline is admirable and would indeed be fantastic I would suggest you take a reality check on how much all this would cost and how long it would take you to do it!

[notinshadow]

  Notinshadow, you are obviously very politically aware but I suspect that you have never been involved in a political campaign. There are 44k households in Hartlepool. On average a person can deliver about 200 leaflets per hour. So to cover the whole town with just one leaflet would take 220 man hours. A mammoth task. This is why you rarely see a leaflet from a political party in between elections.

Good point Ryehill, many people think it simple to bash out a leaflet and push it through letterboxes. I used to work for a promotions company and we used to organise local events. Arranging venues, printing flyers, delivering flyers, getting radio, tV and press advertising in place. This all takes a huge amount of time and costs a lot of money.

Consider a leaflet for every propertry in Hartlepool, just a simple A4 sized, folded once, black and white, printed both sides would cost in the region of £700 - £800. So in addition to having to work 8 hours a day, 7 days a week for about a month to put them through letterboxes you'd need to find that money (plus 200 an hour? maybe in street houses or blocks of flats but no way you can hit that rate in estates with drives and garden gates).


I wouldn't do it that way..

Once you'd done that then you could start your next programme of knocking on every door. Assuming you knock, wait 20 seconds to see if anyone answers and then move onto the next door you could possibly do 2 doors a minute. If someone answers of course you could easily be there another 30 seconds or another 10 minutes, or anywhere in between. Say you average 5 minutes at doors that people answer and 1 in 10 actually does answer. That gives you an average of around 1 minute per door.


I wouldn't do it that way first either..

So let's revisit the original calculation but with 60 per hour rather than 200 and round figures it would take you at 8 hours a day, 7 days a week, somewhere in the region of three months to knock on every door.

N/A

So now we have someone who can afford to pay £700 for leaflets and then take four months off work and devote 8 hours a day, every day, rain, snow or shine, to delivering leaflets and knocking on doors!

N/A

After this you can write 44,000 individual letters (another £700 for paper and printer ink) and then start trudging round the streets for another month to deliver them. Unless you want to post them? So add another £200 for envelopes and another £20,000 for stamps (assuming second class post). Actually you might be able to do a deal with the Post Office and get them bulk delivered but even that's not cheap.

N/A

Of course you haven't even started driving round the streets with your loudspeaker car yet, nor have you been in to speak to all the shop owners, publicans and landlords to persuade them to put up your posters. Nor have you been round putting posters on lamposts (and then gone round taking them down again when the council threatens you with legal action if you don't).

I would use common sense..

So while I think the programme you outline is admirable and would indeed be fantastic I would suggest you take a reality check on how much all this would cost and how long it would take you to do it!

Mr Allison that why really without PHF you time as councillor should have come to an end..your outdated and should have retired long ago..and by all accounts you were not that good at your peak respectfully.

[Not Stephen Hadow]

NIS, so how would you do it........?

[notinshadow]

A lot simplier than you guys are going about it that is for sure.lol

Lets have a look at how your doing it, as that is what really matters right now..
So you, Geoff and a couple of others have a sit down and make a few plans..

You then try and gets some people to come along to the Grand to have an open day and blag anyone you can to stand to make the numbers up..
Big mistake...I think..you can feel the rush to it all.
Then you chat away on the phone and a few email later, you have a game plan.. shocking..

You have to put a package together..
Look at what the Labour party do best and copy..find out what the Labour party do worst and improve..

None of it's rocket science is it but you guys are not working smart.

Come May 4th the truth will out. Labour 1st and the rest won't matter as you won't have the numbers to do f*c* all about it.

[Not Stephen Hadow]

i strongly urge you to listen to NIS ... ....

Delighted to listen!

However, all he has actually said so far is "I wouldn't do it that way"

I'm sure every political organisation in the world would love to know how you can do what he suggests with limited manpower and on a shoestring budget. Please NIS tell us all how to knock on every door, write to each household personally, get cars with speakers, cover shops, pubs, clubs, lamp posts and houses with posters, obtain venues for meetings and make people aware of these meetings. Seriously, I'd love to know?

[notinshadow]

If you had wanted to know that badly you would have asked a long time ago..

You're gone at the game..old hat..spent force..ready for pipe and slippers...sit down..park up ..have and have a cup of tea is the best advice I can offer you.

If you really want to see how I go about it you will have to wait..but I would give myself time and you lot didn't and it is a crucial mistake on you part.

[Not Stephen Hadow]

A lot simplier than you guys are going about it that is for sure.lol

Circular argument here. WHAT would you do. It's easy to critisise and say you could do better but without actually saying how you'd do it!