Council Tax Meeting 3.9%

[DRiddle]

To be totally honest with you, the trolls who go for me have always mildly amused me. Some members of my family consciously don't read the comments in The Mail (or on here) because of the personal attacks I seem to attract.

The bizarre thing is most of the comments come from people who have (a) never met me (b) never spoken with me and (c  ) never made any attempt to contact me directly (apart from one who rang me some years ago). 

If anything the trolling doesn't deter me, it just motivates me to keep doing what I'm doing.

It's almost as if 'there's a voice that keeps on calling me', the trolls know I'm 'down the road, that's where I'll always be'. And even though there are trolls who obviously hate me, because I try hard to help the residents, when I get a bus around the town and talk to people 'every stop I make, I make a new friend'. We have a chat, talk about a issue that's important to them, and they appreciate I 'can't stay for long, just turn around and I'm gone again'.

I suppose now that I have my little boy, 'Maybe tomorrow, I'll want to settle down', and pack in all this politics stuff, but then I guess 'until tomorrow, I'll just keep moving on' and trying to make a difference.

It is a tough gig though, it's like going 'down this road that never seems to end', but on the positive side, politics is an environment 'where new adventure lies just around the bend'.

'So if you want to join me for a while', have a look on the Putting Hartlepool First website or come to a meeting. It's good to be involved. All I'd say to the trolls if anyone of them actually had the courage to talk to me face to face, would be get involved, put you coat and shoes on and do some canvassing, talk to people around the town. It's not complicated. My final piece of advice though would be 'Just grab your hat, we'll travel light...........that's hobo style'.

[Inspector Knacker]

Trolls ?
I have two categories:  .... there's the bitter, simmering back bedroom based  keyboard thumper, ' the world must agree with me' dictator, who believes 'there is no view other than mine' .
Then there's the category who bear all the qualities above, but  carry the additional stigma of doing it to support their party policies...they don't even think, they just respond to the puppeteers strings.
Both groups are timid  little people in the shadows in real life.

[steveL]

Here's an e-mail from Keith Fisher to the Chief Executive about CAB's claim that:

""It is much fairer and more accurate to compare what people actually pay and when you do this Hartlepool is the 55th lowest out of 326 councils in the country"

From the two letters, it's pretty clear that the contortions that are going on to avoid admitting that everyone from those living in a Band A property to Band H are paying the 9th highest level of council tax for that band in the country are reaching extreme levels. They are still trying to peddle the lie that this only applies to Band D.

Alexander manages to confirm Band D to be the 9th highest but stubbornly refuses to admit that Bands A,B,C,E,F,G,H are also the 9th highest.

Why?

Because like CAB, she knows that the majority of people in Hartlepool live in lower Band properties and so wants to convince them that the high Band D rate doesn't affect them. 

Dear Chief Executive
I would here refer to recent statement / releases through The HARTLEPOOL Mail regarding our local Council Tax
The first recent statement was publish as direct quotations from the current council Leader including direct references from HBC officials
The even more recent statements are direct from a current Councillor member of a.n.other political party and contains direct quotations from National records / documents
Without going into the details the clear fact is that the two statements are so clearly differing in content that one of them must be incorrect in fact or at least misleading in content
With respect -- It is my considered opinion that as a council tax paying resident of HARTLEPOOL I am entitled to a specific official statement which would confirm the actual "league position" of our council tax in comparison to the rest of this country
I recognise that our position in such a "league table" may or may not be important
BUT
I am very concerned that two of our senior councillors consider it important enough to be brought to my attention and therefore I turn to you to ensure that any statement from HBC is absolutely correct IN FACT and not subject to any political spin whatsoever
I put it to you that as Chief Executive it simply must be your duty and responsibility to ensure that when statements are seemingly researched and produced by HBC officials that they are correct
Therefore I would be obliged if YOU / YOUR DEPARTMENT could release a clear and simple statement to clarify the matter forthwith
Thank you

Rely from Gill Alexander

Dear Mr Fisher,
In response to your enquiry regarding recent statements by Councillors regarding Council Tax comparisons I can confirm that both statements were factually correct and were based on information published by the Department for Communities and Local Government (DCLG).
DCLG publish two sets of comparative Council Tax information:
· Band D Council Tax comparisons; and
· Average council tax per dwelling comparisons.
The DCLG publication states that:
· Band D council tax is the usual standard measure of council tax and reflects the council tax base expressed as the number of band D equivalent properties;
· Average council tax per dwelling figures are based on the number of chargeable dwellings which reflects the number of properties in the 8 different Council Tax bands, the impact of the number of people eligible for a 25% Single Person Discount and number of households in receipt of Local Council Tax Support. The DCLG also state that average council tax per dwelling is a useful measure for comparing the amount of council tax paid by the average taxpayer in each local authority area;
· Council tax paid by a dwelling may be made up of several elements. Depending on location council tax may consist of precepts for some or all of the following district council, county council, unitary council, fire and rescue authority, police and crime commissioner and parish council.
As Hartlepool has only a small proportion of properties in Council Tax Band D (around 7%, which is less than twice the national average) and the majority of properties in Council Tax Bands A and B, the Council has argued for many years that the 'average council tax per dwelling' provides a more relevant basis for comparing Council Tax. This was the basis for the recent Press Release.
I can confirm that on the basis of the DCLG published information Hartlepool has the following league table rankings:
· Band D ranking 9th highest our of 326 authorities
· Average Council Tax per dwelling ranking 271th lowest out of 326 authorities
I trust this information is helpful and explains the complexity of Council Tax comparisons.
Regards
Gill
Gill Alexander
Chief Executive

[Gustaf I of England + BWH]

(

· Band D ranking 9th highest our of 326 authorities
· Average Council Tax per dwelling ranking 271th lowest out of 326 authorities

How to bamboozle the populace (or more likely oneself) by misuse of the English language.
Is not "271st. lowest out of 326 authorities" the equivalent of 55th. Highest ? Not quite on a par with Band D at 9th. highest, but far enough up the table to be of concern.
I believe that I understand what Ms. Alexander means, but what she says and what she means are poles apart. Nothing new there then.

[DRiddle]

both statements were factually correct

The thing is, it's very easy for something to be "factually correct" whist at the same time very misleading.

It's so very easily done...

[steveL]

The statement:

""It is much fairer and more accurate to compare what people actually pay and when you do this Hartlepool is the 55th lowest out of 326 councils in the country"

is not factually correct.

This is not a case of semantics or interpretation. This is a dishonest statement deliberately intended to mislead and as such it breaches every code of conduct applying to behaviour in public life. It's also made worse by forming part of a Press Release put together by council officers and now apparently endorsed by a council Chief Executive.

They can wriggle away as much as they like. This is a dishonest statement and they've been caught out.

[Foggy]

I suspect the wriggling will reach epic proportions this evening 

The question for me is will they be even bother to justify wasting millions on their 'visions' or just totally ignore the issue and say its not relevant?  I'm pretty sure it will be the latter.

[Land Phil]

I think what Gill means is that Hartlepool is deprived and as a result house prices are very low and the council are making the most of the depravation by using it to their advantage by comparing it to more affluent towns where councils are not so rubbish.

[testing times]

What Hartlepool Council has done over many years is to abolish Bands A and B and then re-designated Band C as the new Band A.

That's why Band C houses elsewhere are paying the same money as our Band A properties.

[Hartlepudlion]

I suggest that to the actual Council Tax payer the only figure that matters is the amount demanded by the Council. Therefore we have the 9th highest Council Tax in England.
Disingenuous of her to suggest that the various precepts affect the Council's figures as these are added on once the Council's rate has been fixed..
The Council Tax Support scheme further muddies the waters as, in Hartlepool, recipients only pay 12% of the band and is applied to mainly Band A householders (work that out - you may be surprised at the difference). Thus bringing down the average.

IF YOU ARE SERIOUSLY INTERESTED AS TO WHAT THE COUNCILLORS DO THEN GET INVOLVED STARTING BY GOING TO TONIGHT'S MEETING.

[Hubris]

Would dearly like to be there tonight, but working out of the country. Thank goodness for HPost to ensure that everyone can get an honest and unbiased version of the event. I look forward to tomorrow's forensic and clinical posts.

BTW.....can someone post the time/place of the meeting for the Putting Hartlepool First group which I believe is this weekend. I'm not into all the local political rivalries, and have no affiliation to any one particular party, but I'd be happy to turn up to the meeting to see if the title of this lot lives up to their actual description. I.e. PH1st!!! ( 'cos if you don't, who else will? -  leave it the hands of the Belcher's clan? The Cranney Inc. Conglomerate? The R M Wells Invisible Support machine? The HBC Officials 3 Monkeys Syndrome (hear, see, speak no evil........just let it ride and say bye-bye to your honour and your principles)

[Foggy]

Predictable as ever tonight.  CAB's lies continue.  I think in the end half of his own party just wanted him to admit the press release was b****cks.

Highlight of the evening was Rob Cook not knowing what day of the week it was, let alone what he was voting for.... "Against".... "For"....."What are we voting for again??" 

[Land Phil]

My first time tonight.
All that space in the room could be the answer to all the care homes closing.
Nobody would notice a few extra sleeping pensioners.

Will we find out next meeting how the Tory Government is responsible for the Mill House financial mess. Maybe it will be making a profit in 5 years time.

P.S. Where do we buy those noses from?

[DRiddle]

A shambles of a meeting from start to finish as always.

An 'unexpected' amendment from the 3 who still insist they belong to the Tory party. Followed by a series of scripted answers all of which referenced the Tory amendment directly.

It was almost as if Labour knew it was coming 

20 minutes of pantomime in which labour fooled no one in their attempt to play the part of the 'good guys'.

The usual level of partial chairmanship from Mary.

Insisting Paul and I wrap up the second we hit 4 minutes yet allowing Barclay to ramble on for a good ten minutes muttering incoherently.

Even Alan Clarkes 'wrapping up' was longer than my entire speech.

Same old same old.

[Land Phil]

What planet was Alan Clark on ?

Who cares if he is passionate about the steel workers and Chinese imports in the context of a council tax rise.

He might as well have been going on about his neighbours dog barking.