25 votes 25 times

[notinshadow]

Is it true?

Did Ray Wells vote 25 time out of 25 times with Labour, if so what proof can we see of that? Is this the black arts of local politics at work or is there any truth to it at all..

[The Great Dictator]

Theres 2 things here..........1st is that people would assume if he didn't vote against them he is voting with them and 2nd is that it might have been good policy to vote with labour on a specific issue which might be beneficial for us all. 

[Not Stephen Hadow]

How I understand this is that there are two types of vote taken in council. The first is just a straight show of hands and only the result is recorded so if something was passed it might have been 23 to 24 or 1 to 46 or anywhere inbetween. There are literally 100's of such votes in a council year. The second type of vote is a roll call where every councillor present is asked individually how they vote and their response noted in the minutes. There might only be a few dozen of this type of vote in a council year and usually only when a political point is being made. I think it must be 25 out of 25 of this type of vote where the Tories have voted with the Labour Group. It would be easy enough to verify this by going back through the minutes if you could be bothered to do so!

[notinshadow]

Thanks S.Haddow that has given me a better understanding of how it works and why.

So before people scream this or that about Ray Wells, shouldn't they have check if it was the case, that it was 25/25.

If that was the case can we see the proof online please whoever took the time to check the facts.

[The Shadow]

Theres 2 things here..........1st is that people would assume if he didn't vote against them he is voting with them and 2nd is that it might have been good policy to vote with labour on a specific issue which might be beneficial for us all. 

This

[The Shadow]

I understand that the majority of full council votes that are taken are as a result of much and protracted debate prior, normally in scrutiny meetings and if Lilley and the rest of the 'independents' ever went to them they'd know why most votes go through at full council with only them objecting.

[Lord Elpus]

Since he was elected in May 2010 there have been 25 recorded votes, in every one of those votes he has voted the same as the Labour group.

Interesting deviations in voting from Tory policy; Council meeting 05 08 2010 the labour group had a notice of motion which he signed;

Council resolves:
To write directly to the Chancellor of the Exchequer raising concerns
about the impact of the proposed VAT increase on pensioners, other
vulnerable groups and businesses in Hartlepool. That this letter should
be signed by all group leaders, plus any other member that wishes to"
Signed:-
Councillor C Simmons
Councillor J Brash
Councillor S Maness
Councillor G Morris
Councillor R Wells
Councillor S Griffin.

The motion was moved and seconded following which the reasons for
presenting the Motion to Council were outlined.  During the lengthy debate that
followed, Members made comment upon the motion with the majority of
Members expressing support for the motion.   
 
At the end of the debate, before the Motion was put to the vote, the mover of
the Motion responded to the issues which had been raised during the debate
and sought the Council's support of the Motion.
    RESOLVED that:-
(i) the Motion be approved.
(ii) the Chairman write to the Chancellor of the Exchequer raising
concerns about the impact of the proposed VAT increase on
pensioners, other vulnerable groups and businesses in
Hartlepool and the letter be signed by all Members wishing to
support the motion.
(iii) A letter be sent to the Local Government Association to
convey the views of the Council, as set out in the Motion
urging them to support the Motion.   
The following Members requested that their vote in support of the above
resolution be recorded:

Cllrs C Akers-Belcher, S Akers-Belcher, Barclay, Brash, Cook, Cranney, Fleet,
Griffin, Hall, Ingham, Lawton, Maness, J W Marshall, Payne, Richardson,
Rogan, Shaw, Thomas and Worthy.

The following Members requested that their vote against the above resolution
be recorded:-
Councillors Barker, London, Preece and Wright

Council Meeting 04 08 2011 he voted against discussing Christine Blakeys petition, which in effect kicked it into touch;


The above petition had been submitted to the Council by Christine Blakey, Lead
Petitioner, who was in attendance at the meeting.  In accordance with the
Council's Petition Scheme, the lead petitioner presented the petition to Council. 
As there were no questions of clarification for the lead petitioner the Deputy
Mayor responded in the absence of the Mayor.  The Deputy Mayor reported that
having considered the contents of the petition, it was recommended that no
action be taken.

In accordance with Council Procedure Rule 17.4 of the Constitution a recorded
vote was taken in relation to the recommendation:-

Those in favour of the recommendation:  C Akers-Belcher, S Akers-Belcher, Barclay, Brash, Cook,
Fenwick, Fleet, Griffin, Hall, Hargreaves, Hill, Jackson, James,
Lauderdale, Lawton, Loynes, Maness, A Marshall, J W Marshall,
McKenna, Dr. Morris, Payne, Richardson, Robinson, Rogan, Shields,
Simmons , Sirs ,  Tem pes t, Thom as , H Thom ps on, P Thom pson, Turner,
Wells and Wilcox 

Those against the recommendation:
  Aiken, Fleming, Gibbon, A E Lilley, G Lilley, J Marshall, Preece and Wrigh

Same Meeting there was a vote looking for HBC to enter discussion to buy Jacksons landing:-

Those in favour of the recommendation:

  Councillors Aiken, C Akers-Belcher, S Akers-Belcher, Barclay, Brash,
Cook, Fenwick, Fleet, Fleming, Griffin, Hall, Hargreaves, Hill, Jackson,
James, Lauderdale, Lawton, Loynes, Maness, A Marshall, J W Marshall,
McKenna, Dr. Morris, Payne, Preece, Richardson, Robinson, Rogan,
Shields , Simmons , Sirs ,  Tem pes t, Thom as , H Thom ps on, P Thom pson,
Turner, Wells and  Wilcox 

Those against the recommendation:
Councillors Gibbon, A E Lilley, G Lilley, J Marshall and Wright

Full Council meeting 09 02 2012;

140. MOTIONS ON NOTICE
The following Motion had been received:-

"This Council resolves to amend Section 4 of the Council's Constitution
and record within their annual Budget and Policy Framework that any
favourable outturn must be allocated to the Council's General Fund. This
will ensure that any further allocation of the said monies is subject to Full
Council approval".

Councillor C Akers-Belcher 
Councillor T Lawton
  Councillor A Barclay
Councillor P Ingham
Councillor M James

The motion was moved and seconded.
Issues arising from the motion were debated by Members.
In accordance with Council Procedure Rule 17.4 of the Constitution a recorded
vote was taken in relation to the proposal:-
Those in favour:-

  Councillors: C Akers-Belcher, S Akers-Belcher, Barlday, Cook,
Cranney, Fenwick, Fleet, Fleming, |ngham, James, Lawton, Loynes,
Maness, A Marshall, J W Marshall, McKenna, Morris, Preece,
Ricarhds on, Robins on, Rogan, Shields , Sirs , Tem pes t, Thomas , P
Thompson, Turner, Wells and Wilcox.

Those against:-
  The Mayor, Stuart Drummond
Councillors Gibbon, Hill, Lauderdale, A E Lilley, G Lilley and H
Thompson

Also on the 09 02 2011 in relation to the mid term budget;


139. REPORT FROM THE EXECUTIVE
(a) Proposals in relation to the Council's budget and policy framework

(i) Medium Term Financial Strategy 2011/12 to 2014/15

The Finance and Procurement Portfolio Holder formally presented to Council
the Executive's proposals for the Medium Term Financial Strategy 2012/13 to
2014/15.  The Portfolio Holder on behalf of Cabinet indicated appreciation for
the support received from Scrutiny Co-ordinating Committee during the budget
process.  The final proposals from Cabinet were set out in the report for
Council's consideration. 

An amended document had been circulated to reflect the views of Cabinet
following the meeting held on 6 February 2012.

The Portfolio Holder moved and commended  the final budget proposals as set
out in the report. The Mayor commented on the financial pressures facing the
Council and thanked everyone involved in setting a particularly challenging
budget.   

The following amendments were moved and seconded:-
 
1. "This Council cannot agree to the budget proposal from Cabinet relating to
the up-front costs from the ICT, Revenues and Benefits Contract. Our
recommendation is to balance our 2012/13 budget by utilising £330k from the
Job Evaluation Appeal Reserve.  The remainder of the monies identified from Council   -
this reserve should be transferred to the General Fund.
The purpose of our decision is because this Council resolves we do not and will
not privatise the Revenues and Benefits Service but our decision will allow the
Council the opportunity to explore all available options for a new ICT contract,
including both privatisation and an in-house option which may realise the
maximum savings for the benefit of Hartlepool"

2. "This Council wishes to remove from £2k year on year Mayoral Allowance
increase from the budget plus projected increase £9k for all Members which can
be identified in the Statement of General Fund requirements 2012/13 and to
transfer these amounts to General Fund Balances."

3. "This Council supports the Scrutiny Co-ordinating Committee's proposal to
establish a "Ward Fund".  This should be established at £181,500 to be
allocated equally to all Elected Members to directly address specific resident
and ward issues."

This fund will be created by allocating the under spends from both the Acting
Chief Executive arrangements (£76,848) and the Joint Head of HR role (21,402)
plus £83,250 from the 2011/12 favourable General Fund outturn for this
municipal year.

Council further supports the allocating of the one-off saving arising from last
year's industrial action at £50,000 approximately  to a ring-fenced budget for the
retraining of staff on the redeployment register.  Recommendation from HJTUC
to support our members."

4. "This Council approves the Furniture Project reserve @ £50,000 being
allocated to kick start the said project."

Members of the council made comment upon the proposed amendments.
In accordance with Council Procedure Rule 17.4 of the Constitution a recorded
vote was taken in relation to the proposed amendments:-

Those in favour of the recommendation:
Councillors C Akers-Belcher, S Akers-Belcher, Barclay, Cook, Cranney,
Fenwick, Fleet, Fleming, Ingham, James, Lawton, Loynes, Maness, A Marshall,
J W Marshall, McKenna, Dr. Morris, Preece, Richardson, Robinson, Rogan,
Shields , Sirs , Tempes t, Thomas , Wells and Wilcox.

Those against the recommendation:

The Mayor, Stuart Drummond
Councillors Gibbon, Hill, Lauderdale, A E Lilley, G Lilley, H Thompson

Those abstaining:
Councillors Brash, Hall, Hargreaves, Jackson, Payne, Simmons, P Thompson

Council meeting 23 01 2011

In accordance with Council Procedure Rule 17.4 of the Constitution a recorded
vote was taken in relation to the decision made by Council on 9th  February and
supporting resolutions detailed in appendix 3 and supporting calculations
detailed in appendix 4.

It was highlighted that if a two thirds majority in favour of
the Council's amendments, on 9th  February, was not achieved, then the
Executive's proposals would stand.

Those in favour:
Councillors C Akers-Belcher, S Akers-Belcher, Barclay, Cook, Cranney,
Fenwick, Fleet, Griffin, Ingham, James, Lawton, Loynes, Maness, A Marshall,
McKenna, Dr. Morris, Preece, Richardson, Robinson, Rogan, Shaw, Shields,
Sirs, Tempest, Thomas, P Thompson, Turner, Wells, Wilcox and Wright

Those against the recommendation:
The Mayor, Stuart Drummond and Councillors Fleming, Gibbon, Hill,
Lauderdale, A Lilley, G Lilley and H Thompson

The simple fact is that in every single vote the Tory's have supported the Labour group is damming enough, 25 out of 25 100% record, impressive.

[Lord Elpus]

http://www.puttinghartlepoolfirst.co.uk/whatitsaysonthetin.php

[The Shadow]

I understand that the majority of full council votes that are taken are as a result of much and protracted debate across the political spectrum prior, normally in scrutiny meetings and if Lilley and the rest of the 'independents' ever went to them they'd know why most votes go through at full council with only them objecting.

It sounds like Hartlepool First are rattled.

[Lord Elpus]

Strange how you see things, it appears to me Cllr.Ray Wells voting record is not what his constituents would expect of a Tory.  Not to worry they'll soon know about it.

[mk1]

It sounds like Hartlepool First are rattled.

Someone certainly is.
Rattled enough to send  an undercover stooge to defend and excuse  his (in)actions........

So bereft of ideas you have to  post the same excuse twice?

[The Shadow]

Strange how you see things, it appears to me Cllr.Ray Wells voting record is not what his constituents would expect of a Tory.  Not to worry they'll soon know about it.

I'd imagine tory voters would want low taxes = His objection to a rise in VAT.
I'd imagine tory voters would want to reduce wastful spending = His objection to wasting a 6 figure sum to cancel a contract that has 1 year left to run so that revs & bens could be retendered to a very small list of select companies.
Do you even know Conservative policies?

I could go on Cllr but I have no need to. You know the truth, you just prefer to play politics and tug on peoples heart strings rather than actually turning up to meetings and actually working with people to better this town. Pathetic really.

[notinshadow]

G.L.was there 25 votes in your post where he voted 25 times with Labour?

I am having trouble counting the 25 there..


Someone break it down for me please to dates and votes, without all the other bits, to help this simple man out..

[mk1]

Someone break it down for me please to dates and votes, without all the other bits, to help this simple man out..

I thought you had 'access' to Wells and thus could say right out 'that is wrong' -if it was wrong.

[notinshadow]

MK1

Will you count them and tell me if there is 25 out of 25 there please Sir.


What's the access bit all about ..don't start telling lies.. as that's isn't fair my friend.

I have emailed Ray Well a few weeks ago and if you like, I will find the email and post it.

I will email Ray Well now to ask if he minds me putting his reply on here..


I have found the email.. it was sent on the 27th March at 0.37am

Hi Ray

May is fast approaching, it's time to think about who I want to vote for this year..the problem I have is this..
Everytime I think about voting Tory, the fact that out of 25 votes, you voted 25 times with Labour concerns me and I simply wondered why you would vote that way 25 times.

Also will you be fielding a nobody, that nobody knows, in my ward again this time round, that will make no effort to try and win, as quite frankly I wasted my vote last time because of the complete lack of effort by the Tory party in this town.
Kind Regards