One thing I did expect to hear comments on from HTH contributors was with regard to the Lucian Freud painting owned for 40 years or so by HBC.
http://www.hartlepoolmail.co.uk/news/local/painting-to-be-loaned-out-again-1-4674350
The council don't disclose a value on the painting but all you need to do is a bit of research. For example...
http://www.christies.com/LotFinder/lot_details.aspx?intObjectID=5101427 (£2 million)
http://www.christies.com/LotFinder/lot_details.aspx?intObjectID=5459632 (£4.7 million)
http://www.christies.com/LotFinder/lot_details.aspx?intObjectID=5128269 (£5.4 million)
http://www.christies.com/LotFinder/lot_details.aspx?intObjectID=5138365 ($2.1 million)
We're probably talking (and i'm no expert obviously) about somewhere around a couple of million quid.
Who knows, we could be talking about even more...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7398949.stm
So my question to the forum is pretty obvious... In a recession and funding cuts the like of which our town has never seen, with London full of art collecting Russian Billionaires and the Chinese high end art market arguably at it's peak.... isn't it a good time for HBC to cash in their chips and sell it?
On the basis that it would be difficult to argue that any Hartlepudlian has ever received any benefit from the town owning this painting and most are probably totally unaware of it, I would say sell it and use the money to build something that does benefit the people of the town. Isolated paintings are of little practical use even from an art point of view and would be better placed among a collection of other paintings where they would be viewed by more people - very few people would travel to Hartlepool to see one painting.
I was unaware that HBC owned this piece. It does seem to spend little time in the town, but my gut reaction is to hold on to the 'family silver'. Sentiment apart, uncertain times tend to add value to such rarities. On a more cynical note, too many within HBC have a 'spend,spend,spend' mentality, which could exchange an tangible asset for another vanity project.
I asked the civic this question 12 years ago about the painting and was told that if it were sold it would have to be replaced by Art of the same or more value.
It is a fixed asset and cannot be sold to fix the roads.
I hope its looked after better than the Mayoral Chain that disappeared from within the civic.
The Council also had the stained glass windows from The Wesley and we know what happened to them!
Can we be sure it aint hanging in the SCABs front room?
I can't decide whether this relates to the Antiques Roadshow or Crimewatch... ???
I didn't realise it was worth so much, good job the town rascals didn't realise.
I have seen it in the Christ Church gallery, hung on the wall as part of a portrait exhibition, not that long ago.
No obvious security and it wasn't behind glass or even a red rope !
(I seem to remember it was in that quiet south section of the building.
I can't see us getting such a notable piece of art by selling and buying something else
and maybe there is value in loaning it out as our town will be mentioned in the galleries it goes to.
...but I wonder what would happen if somebody 'forgot' the rules and it was sold for the greater good of the town.
Surely it would be less of a crime than leaving the 'crown jewels' in a come and steal me cabinet in the Civic.
The Hansons bought a picture for 2 grand a few years ago and it was sh*te. Freuds is about £1-2m-ish but it's well secured and well insured.
The council could sell buildings or land and use the cash for other Capital projects but not for putting buses back on.
The ground could be sold but the incentive of other peoples money is hard to refuse.
Quote from: testicles on June 25, 2012, 09: PM
Freuds is about £1-2m-ish but it's well secured and well insured.
"IF" it was hanging in Christ Church recently that is maybe why? ;D
The rules must be different for Art and buildings, they can sell the ground but only to the leaseholder and if they think that the clubs promise
of investment will help them long term then they'll try to give them it. The officers will be in favour of it but the councillors won't.
If they are gifted the land there will be a covenant attached, when WEST sold their ground in Brierton lane the council got half the money.
I'm sorry but I class that piece of 'art' alongside 'The Watcher' (outside the old museum),
the 'Balls' on the roundabout,
Tracy Emin's unmade bed,
Saatchi's collection of building bricks,
Yoko Ono's piece of paper that simply reads 'Yes',
Damien Hirst's pickled cow etc. etc.
Just because someone says a fish bone is a piece of art doesn't make it so.
Well, it does to those that pretend to be 'in the know' and can appreciate the artistic licence of a used condom and a pair of dirty knickers (and all of the other rubbish that was on Emin's bed). :-[ :o
Give me a John Constable painting anyday. :)
Whether you like it or not doesn't de-value it, classic Art is a tax dodge for the rich.
first we had the football club; now Juile wants HBC to give her a Constable.... :o
Quote from: perseus on June 27, 2012, 12: PM
Julie, prior to the sale of one of Freud's paintings, the highest price paid for a work by a living artist was for a work by Geoff Koons. Do you have an opinion on Koons?
Serious question for you, can you give me a direct yes or no answer to it?
Are you mad?
Quote from: perseus on June 27, 2012, 02: PM
For asking a question about art?
No, for asking about peoples opinions on Koons.
Unless maybe it was just another carrot that you were lamely dangling for Kipper?
'Art', like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder.
Or the one that wishes to appear 'hip' and avantgarde.
At least you knew dali was having fun with his art.
Emin, Hirst, Koon, Freud et al take theirs seriously, as though we should too.
With regard to the sale and proceeds to the bus service; It will never happen because it means people struggle to get to the Kremlin for the council meetings...that suits the comrades nicely, as the oposition in the chamber of horrors is reduced.
However, it is also an own goal to the council because the likes of the Borough Hall, the Town Hall and Maritime Experience all could do with bus passengers 'after hours'.
What an abomination they are. :(
and believe it or not bus drivers would be happy to be working evenings again, it would also create 6/7 full time drivers jobs that have been lost since the cuts were made.
Banksy is more appealing than that old fuddy duddy stuff.
We're veering off topic but for my money (if I could afford them) the young painter from Norfolk is a wonderful painter and he's only 10 years of age!
Check out Kieron Williamson, his watercolours and pastels are superb (and priced in their thousands!!).
The council must have hundreds of paintings gathering dust, never seeing the light of day that are less notable than the Freud one.
Maybe starting by selling those and buying something more appealing would be a good starting point.