Phoenix

[dowager]

The (general) reaction to PHF / Labour / LibDem / UKIP / Cons  by many on here shows that politics and politicians, both locally and nationally are finished even though I admire independents.

The (small) revolution is underway. I believe the phoenix will rise from the flames very soon, likeminded, previously unpolitical folk, coming together, for the good of the town and the good of the people, and hopefully nationally, eventually.

Ultimately, everyone has their own agendas, but enough 'good people', previously 'unpolitical' and uncommitted, coming together with business skills, people skills, legal skills, grant funding skills, financial skills and 'real vision' for a largely wonderful town of mainly good, hard-grafting people, HAS to be the future.

Eutopia certainly, and unatainable in reality, but worth striving for ....

[mk1]

The (general) reaction to PHF / Labour / LibDem / UKIP / Cons  by many on here shows that politics and politicians, both locally and nationally are finished even though I admire independents.

The (small) revolution is underway. I believe the phoenix will rise from the flames very soon, likeminded, previously unpolitical folk, coming together, for the good of the town and the good of the people, and hopefully nationally, eventually.

Ultimately, everyone has their own agendas, but enough 'good people', previously 'unpolitical' and uncommitted, coming together with business skills, people skills, legal skills, grant funding skills, financial skills and 'real vision' for a largely wonderful town of mainly good, hard-grafting people, HAS to be the future.

Eutopia certainly, and unatainable in reality, but worth striving for ....

I amire your optimism but your grasp on reality  lets you down. Labour have a core vote bought and paid for. They  blatantly  steal the votes of all he OAP homes in the Ward and that, combined with the hangers on they feed with crumbs from the public purse, means they have enough to ensure they can sneak back in with a  tiny slice of the  electorate. You have to tap a new source of voters as those who  vote on a regular basis are mainly Labour.
Burying your head in the sand and  hoping the cavalry  ride to  the rescue has ever worked before and it wont this time either. Given that Ray is going to run no-hope candidates in return for his planning stranglehold and the rest of the vote is going to be split between UKIP/PHF then the outlook is bleak. I am no great supporter of any party but the sensible way forward is for the 2 main contenders to divi up the wards and  not fight each other.  Yes UKIP is a strange mix of people but is the odd councillor going to change much?
UKIP and PHF have to do a deal because if they do not then we are all foocked.
Please no one bther replying quoting principles. All principles get you is the moral high ground leaving the  thieves in control.

[HarryBlackwood]

Dowager. Absolutely spot on. The system is bent. It must be changed. It will be. The sooner people realise that not voting will bring about that change, the better.

I'm totally confident PHF are worse than we have now.

* I'm unfairly on pre mod with no reason given so I'm only responding occasionally. Apologies for delay.

[steveL]

You might well be right about that mk1 but the thought of any deal with UKIP would stick in the throat. Personally, I think the way forward is to get the 80% of people who don't vote off their bums.

[dowager]

... and for that to happen, they need to be inspired, included and PART of the future, and social media gives us a heads-up nowadays.

Previous 'politicians' can bring their 'skills' and 'experience' to the table, but they will not lead the (small) revolution, even though they may try to hijack it and subvert it - as they always do

[DRiddle]

... and for that to happen, they need to be inspired, included and PART of the future, and social media gives us a heads-up nowadays.

Previous 'politicians' can bring their 'skills' and 'experience' to the table, but they will not lead the (small) revolution, even though they may try to hijack it and subvert it - as they always do

Dowager, are you a 'friend' of PHF on facebook?

[dowager]

nope, I'm a 'friend' of no one, but a possible partner of many.

A bon viveur, realist, dreamer and 'doer' , a possible member of 'The New Hartlepool Improvement Commissioners' movement, or not

[Pwilson]

Personally, I think the way forward is to get the 80% of people who don't vote off their bums.

I think this is the ONLY way, locally or nationally.

[Inspector Knacker]

Wouldn't it be nice if all councillors had to be independents resident in the wards they represented and ALL parties banned.  Just a thought.

[DRiddle]

You mean like Putting Hartlepool First are aiming to do? That's basically our aim for the civic.

[pensionater]

How do you work that Driddle?.PHF is a party if i'm not mistaken and you are reportedly putting yourself up for the Hart ward .So totally the opposite.

[DRiddle]

I work that out because if you read our constitution it falls in line with exactly waht Riddler5 said. We are a 'party' in all but name in so far as we stand togther as a collective bunch on independents and to comply with the requirments of some aspects of electoral law that demands the label 'party'.... At no point have i clarified i'm standing for the Hart Ward.

For the record people from Hart approached ME and ASKED ME to stand there. I explained to them I lived in Burn Valley and they said they just wanted someone who would ACTUALLY represent them, it didnt matter to them where that person lived.

I was also asked to stand in Seaton Carew by the late Cath Hill some time ago. I declined mainly due to the fact athat I don't live in that ward.

[pensionater]

That's always baffled me about Independents,politically wise it's defined as "not belonging to or supported by a political party".So shouldn't an Independent stand alone?.How can they belong to a party?.That's why i don't get UKIP.

[DRiddle]

In my view, some of the independents over the years have had their heads turned by the major parties and ended up essentially being part of another party. Putting their hand up when told in exchange for a committee chair and whatever.

I like the PHF flag beacuse it means you have a collective identity, but the autonomy to vote the way you see fit.

That's just my opinion, i'm not trying to force that view on anyone or anything.

[steveL]

It's not that complicated really.

'The Rules' were pulled together by the main parties and are written in a way that favours groups of councillors (normally a 'party'). Individual Independent Councillors struggle to have the same voice when it matters and, for example, are excluded from briefings by council officers in the way that party leaders are not.

So, for example, the Leader of PHF is invited to briefings by the Chief Exec along with the other party leaders and can then pass information down to other PHF councillors. If they were all 'Independents' then they would not know what had been said and would have to rely on the rumour mill. They would not  have the same information as other councillors belonging to a 'party'.

In PHF's case, how they view or vote on the information they receive is up to each individual councillor but at least they do get the information.