EU referendum

[Mican]

............. of course they will say they are right and everybody else is wrong as they don't have the intelligence to think for themselves.  Amen.

A bit rich coming from someone who supports a party where the entry requirement is to take an IQ test and only those who score below maroon level are admitted!

My last comment on this, judging by your comment that I support a certain party because I disagree with some of the crap you come out with and without any kind of evidence to support it, I can only assume you would be lucky to reach maroon level.

[DRiddle]

There's a strong argument from Kippers in video form here 

http://m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/9296564?1456224586

[mk1]

As I said, Maroons!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBi-KXc0CRk

[mk1]

Note the line: 'They want  prison-ers to vote'

and only a maroon would make up something so obviously a lie.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/oct/06/uk-ban-on-prisoner-voting-is-lawful-eus-highest-court-rules

Voting ban on prisoners convicted of serious crimes is lawful, EU court rules

[DRiddle]

Just on a serious note, I personally don't have a problem with giving prisoners the vote.

I suppose there's an argument that those on a full life term don't deserve/need one, but that's a very small number of people (in Britain at least).

Just because you're in prison, for what could be a relatively small* offense in the grand scheme of things, doesn't mean you should be denied a say politically on your life on the outside.

Indeed, given politicians have such a key say on the penal system and prison reform, especially under Gove, that's all the more reason to give prisoners the vote in my opinion.

Wasn't it Dostoevsky who said something about judging the civility of a society by the way it treats its prisoners?

If the biggest criticism of me a UKIP supporter can make is "You want to give prisoners the vote", i'll take that on the chin.



*Small in comparison to environmental crime, state sponsored genocide, gargantuan scale tax evasion etc.

[DRiddle]

I'm as concerned with whether or not the law which is made is correct and appropriate, rather than who makes it to be honest.

Mugabe made a lot of laws in Zimbabwe, likewise Mussolini made a few in Italy.

Each had the mandate to do so (to varying extents). Should a country be just left to enforce any laws they like?

By that rationale, we should just let ISIS crack on chucking people off buildings then eh?

I find it bizarre that in a civilised society a person can be denied their democratic right to vote because of (for example) a string of motoring offences. 

[mk1]

what is important is that an unelected, unaccountable, institution can, as things stand, strike down ANY law made by our democratically elected legislature.

So you are against the House Of Lords on principle then?

[mk1]

DR, in your rush to defend voting rights for prisoners you place the legislative procedures and practices of England (in this case)on a par to those of Mugabe, Mussolini and  ISIS -

Err no..............on par with the rest of Europe as a matter of fact.

Notice the open and unapologetic  racist manages to get the three bogey-men into the frame.
 
Mugabe = Black people.
Mussolini = Europe
ISIS = Muslims.

I personally would venture to say that more scrutiny, due process and accountability has gone into the formation of our British laws than has prevailed under Robert Mugabe?

But would you say that British laws are 'better' than German laws and French laws?
Is it that you believe 'British' laws are somehow superior than every other laws and that 'Britain' only makes perfect laws?


Talking of Mugabe how is your campaign to 'Keep Rhodesia White' going?

[mk1]

Seems the Swiss are on track to  reject the attempts to stir up hatred by  their own right-wing loonies.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35680760

People in Switzerland are on course to reject a plan to automatically expel foreigners who commit minor crimes, early projections suggest.
The proposal has been put forward by the right-wing Swiss People's Party.
The vote comes amid growing unease at rising immigration and the problems which, the party says, come with it.
But opponents said the law would create a two-tier justice system unfairly targeting foreigners, who make up around 25% of Switzerland's population.

[Tee_Ess_25er]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBi-KXc0CRk

Interestingly, Frank Skinner mentioned the song on his Saturday Breakfast show and the fact that as far as he knew no one had been approached asking permission to 'use' their original song.

[Hartlepudlion]

Here's a view from a friend who has lived in Spain for many years.


There is a lot of scare talk in the media, all based on supposition with no facts to back any of it up on both sides. Most Brits here want to stay, as they misguidedly believe that they will lose health benefits and fear they will be expelled which is, of course, absolute rubbish.

Nobody can foretell what will happen in the long term, but things will remain much as they are now until new treaties are thrashed out. With our trade imbalance with the rest of Europe, it is sensible to assume that they will not wish it to be otherwise - it will just not be in their interest, so I cannot see much change tradewise with them, but we will have added opportunities elsewhere as well.

Of course all financial institutions hate any kind of change. As things are at present, the status quo serves the fat cats extremely well.

Most Europeans wish the UK to stay, because we pay the second largest contribution, and this will be sorely missed.

The EU as it currently stands is a spendthrift, undemocratic, corrupt club for hasbeen politicos which is not subject to any kind of checks and balances, and audits are unheard of. Expenses are unchecked, and to run two parliaments just to please the French is an absolute waste of funds. It is a good thing in principle but a disaster as it stands. If it were reformed and brought under democratic control with financial discipline then it would be great. But this is unlikely to happen. Cameron, with the threat of a Brexit, could not achieve any worthwhile results. If you choose to stay in, you have thrown in the towel, and it will never change. As it stands it suits the French very well and, because of history the Germans do not want to upset the French so things will continue as they are until it all collapses under its own weight.

After this rant you will no doubt think that I am in favour of getting the hell out of it, before we waste more of the billions thant we have pumped into it. It would be better served put into the home social system, but then again, that is not necessarily the case with the bunch of nitwits you have in Westminster.

[mk1]

to run two parliaments just to please the French is an absolute waste of funds............ As it stands it suits the French very well and, because of history the Germans do not want to upset the French..............

That is the thanks the French get for saving the British Ar*se (twice) in the Crimean War!

[Hartlepudlion]

I can't see the link, mk1, between the Crimian War and the EU. As for saving a??es, I suggest the UK has saved more French ones than they Brits. But that is another argument and has nothing to do with the EU.
Having two Parliaments in Brussels and another in Strausberg just to satisfy French pride is a total waste of money.

And here's another.

The European Investment Bank spent almost €20billion last year in supporting credit provision for small and medium-sized companies last year but British businesses didn't receive even one penny. The U.K. Was the only country in the EU NOT to receive any funds, a report by the Bank shows. Germany, France, Spain and Italy received a combined €14.4 billion. This is despite Britain owning a 16% share in the EIB having invested €3.3 billion.
Not only are we bank rolling a corrupt, free-spending and non-accountable organisation we have to defend it by paying more into NATO than any other country in the EU. Only the French come close in defence spending.

At the moment I am undecided but the more I research the EU the more I am inclined to leave.

[mk1]

As for saving a??es, I suggest the UK has saved more French ones than they Brits..

I know you think that is the case but the example I gave you was to illustrate a point. You have been brought up to believe the Crimean war was an all-british affair where the plucky little brits took on Russia and humbled her. Truth is France was the major power in that war. Her army dwarfed the British Army and it was French Cavalry that rescued the  survivors from the Charge Of The Light Brigade and it was French troops who stormed Sevastopol whilst the British attack was repulsed.  Britain and France have been close allies since 1900 and the constant knee-jerk sh*tting on the French is juvenile and unwarranted.

[mk1]

The European Investment Bank spent almost €20billion last year in supporting credit provision for small and medium-sized companies last year but British businesses didn't receive even one penny. The U.K. Was the only country in the EU NOT to receive any funds, a report by the Bank shows. Germany, France, Spain and Italy received a combined €14.4 billion. This is despite Britain owning a 16% share in the EIB having invested €3.3 billion.
Not only are we bank rolling a corrupt, free-spending and non-accountable organisation we have to defend it by paying more into NATO than any other country in the EU. Only the French come close in defence spending.

Yep thats right. All them lazy degos are sittng on their arses doing nowt whilst the plucky hard working brits are the only country that pays in anything. We are carrying everyone else and without us the EU would fall apart.  We are so exceptional.....................