EU referendum

[DRiddle]

I find it strange, almost everyday for over 10 years or so UKIP supporters have been hijacking practically every topic on the local, national and international threads on this message board.  They've been banging on and on and on about an in/out referendum on EU membership during all that time.

Now here we are in the early stages of a vote on exactly that issue.... and there isn't a peep out of a single UKIP member on here.

[mk1]

Because they need a 'stay in'vote to survive. If it is an exit then UKIP are history. They need a windmill to tilt at in order to satisy their hunger for power. Just another bunch of lying politicians who are going to sacrifice Hartlepool in the upcoming local elections in order to further UKIPs national agenda.
Mind you we did have a stupid letter in the Mail recently that compared Cameron to Chamberlain and Munich. Just shows how ill-informed about UK history they are  they are to believe the two events are in any way linked.

[steveL]

but even if it's a vote to stay in UKIP are still history. Sure they will continue to bleat on but refusing to accept defeat would display a lack of respect for democracy - they will say that the vote was rigged, the press coverage biased and so on.... but the Brits have always hated a bad loser - it's so un-British

[mk1]

Looks like  UKIP are writing headlines for The Times.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-35625336

[grim reaper]

I'm not commenting as a 'UKIP' member (as I'm not one) but as a perplexed visitor to this site.
Perplexed because the reason of the birth of this site was to highlight the pathetic way HBC is, and has been run by (mainly) labour cllrs over the years.

The waste of money on vanity events and initiatives. The financial black hole of organisations that are being, or will be investigated, by police.
The millions of pounds of the working men and women in this town that is, allegedly, unaccounted for.
And I'm with the Hartlepool Post all of the way.

However, I'm perplexed because whenever anyone points out the similar scenario (although it runs into billions!) that has occurred in Europe for the last 21 years of non audited accounts, they are called racist, xenophobic etc. etc. ad infinitum. Yawn.

The latest, not accepted, accounts indicated a 'missing' £4.5 billion.
We pay in £55 million a day to be a member and yet people on here stand up for the system by stating 'we get more back'.
Totally ignoring the missing monies and lack of financial accounting.

However, when Ged was in charge of Manor Residents accounts he was pilloried by the same people for 'irregularities'!

My position is I don't want to be ripped off by anyone, be it HBC or the busted flush that is the EU.
You can't defend the indefensible. Although the 'usual suspects' on here will try.  Yawn.

[mk1]

.

However, I'm perplexed because whenever anyone points out the similar scenario (although it runs into billions!) that has occurred in Europe for the last 21 years of non audited accounts, they are called racist, xenophobic etc. etc. ad infinitum. Yawn.

In general all the anti-EU drivel we get here is 'racist, and xenophobic'. I am sure you can find graft and corruption in the EU but then so you can in the UK.  It is not a desire to become more transparent that drives the 'Anti mob'  rather a deep rooted hatred of all foriegners in general and  brown skinned ones in particular. That and  an absurd belief that the UK is 'special' in some way and can learn nothing from anyone else. 
The root of the  opposition to the EU is the innablity to accept  the days of the Empire are gone.

[steveL]

I think it's very obvious that all those coming out against membership of the EU aren't all a bunch of xenophobic racists. I haven't even made my own mind up yet and see merit on both sides of the argument. That said, I can't say the same about the UKIP voices on here; I'm quite clear that their own root objections are much more narrowly based even if they are often wrapped up in other arguments, economic or otherwise.

As a matter of fact, I don't even think their views accurately reflect the official view of UKIP but unfortunately, UKIP's drive to swell their membership has opened the door too widely and let in all sorts of cranks. 

[DRiddle]

I too will listen to all sides of the debate before voting. I especially want to know what the situation is regarding TTIP if we leave.

In terms of 'why stay?' Simon Sweeney from York University put it better than I could.

What did the EEC/EU ever do for us? Not much, apart from: providing 57% of our trade; structural funding to areas hit by industrial decline; clean beaches and rivers; cleaner air; lead free petrol; restrictions on landfill dumping; a recycling culture; cheaper mobile charges; cheaper air travel; improved consumer protection and food labelling; a ban on growth hormones and other harmful food additives; better product safety; single market competition bringing quality improvements and better industrial performance; break up of monopolies; Europe-wide patent and copyright protection; no paperwork or customs for exports throughout the single market; price transparency and removal of commission on currency exchanges across the eurozone; freedom to travel, live and work across Europe; funded opportunities for young people to undertake study or work placements abroad; access to European health services; labour protection and enhanced social welfare; smoke-free workplaces; equal pay legislation; holiday entitlement; the right not to work more than a 48-hour week without overtime; strongest wildlife protection in the world; improved animal welfare in food production; EU-funded research and industrial collaboration; EU representation in international forums; bloc EEA negotiation at the WTO; EU diplomatic efforts to uphold the nuclear non-proliferation treaty; European arrest warrant; cross border policing to combat human trafficking, arms and drug smuggling; counter terrorism intelligence; European civil and military co-operation in post-conflict zones in Europe and Africa; support for democracy and human rights across Europe and beyond; investment across Europe contributing to better living standards and educational, social and cultural capital.

All of this is nothing compared with its greatest achievements: the EU has for 60 years been the foundation of peace between European neighbours after centuries of bloodshed. It furthermore assisted the extraordinary political, social and economic transformation of 13 former dictatorships, now EU members, since 1980. Now the union faces major challenges brought on by neoliberal economic globalisation, and worsened by its own systemic weaknesses. It is taking measures to overcome these. We in the UK should reflect on whether our net contribution of £7bn out of total government expenditure of £695bn is good value. We must play a full part in enabling the union to be a force for good in a multipolar global future.

I suppose on the down side (according to some) it's enabled some people who are 'different' from us to live here.

[Mican]

I find it strange, almost everyday for over 10 years or so UKIP supporters have been hijacking practically every topic on the local, national and international threads on this message board.  They've been banging on and on and on about an in/out referendum on EU membership during all that time.

Now here we are in the early stages of a vote on exactly that issue.... and there isn't a peep out of a single UKIP member on here.

Unbelievable, over the same period the anti UKIP usual suspects have been doing exactly the same, you will probably find they have hijacked more, trouble is it is so predictably boring, I think it is time to stop reading this site until the referendum is over, you can guarantee that the pages will be filled with the usual crass comments, of course they will say they are right and everybody else is wrong as they don't have the intelligence to think for themselves.  Amen.

[not4me]

but when the referendum is over with what the hell are UKIP going to talk about? Not something as mundane as council tax. The two of them sat like speechless gargoyles at last Thursdays' meeting.

[mk1]

............. of course they will say they are right and everybody else is wrong as they don't have the intelligence to think for themselves.  Amen.

A bit rich coming from someone who supports a party where the entry requirement is to take an IQ test and only those who score below maroon level are admitted!

[DRiddle]

Mican, what used to happen was the regular users of this message board would start a topic on..... anything..... a few UKIP supporters would spin the focus of the topic around to the EU.

We could be talking about dog mess, Jackson's Landing, unemployment, the Akers-Belchers, ward Jackson park or basically anything at all and it would get turned around to the EU somehow.

Eventually the administrators of the site created a separate topic specifically for European political issues. This one we're commenting on now. All of a sudden Ukippers quietened down.

Now, bang smack in the middle of the turn of events they've been waiting for since the 1970's.... they're pin drop quiet. I just find that a bit bizarre.

Could it be they've realised they've been out manoeuvred by a Conservative Party who have covered both bases? Essentially the Tories have made the outcome irrelevant in terms of the future of their party. 

Ukip on the other hand appear stuffed either way. If people vote in, you won't get another referendum in the remaining lifetime of most UKIP members.

If people vote out, the Tories and BOJO will claim the glory.

[mk1]

but when the referendum is over with what the hell are UKIP going to talk about?

I presume they will campaign to  get laws passed that favour the big business donors who bankroll them. Given how they are completely in the pocket of the tobacco and drinks industry we can expect smoking to be made compulsory and pubs allowed to open in graveyards........err .............I mean.............

[mk1]

. All of a sudden Ukippers quietened down.

Now, bang smack in the middle of the turn of events they've been waiting for since the 1970's.... they're pin drop quiet. I just find that a bit bizarre.

Typical behaviour of a national political party.  The local Kippers have been ordered by head office to stand in every seat in May and that order will be obeyed.   Kippers know that splitting the vote means Labour will win the seats but they don't care because the  objective is to get brand recognition for UKIP.  Hartlepool is way down the list for these bong-eyed obsessives and that is why they are keeping their heads down. They know they are complete and utter hypocrites and lack the courage to admit their deception.  Typical lying politicians who will crap on anyone or anything because they hate 'Yourope' with a passion.
The  formerly vocal UKIP mob are  now too scared to  come here face up to the fact they have been rumbled.

[steveL]

I noticed that Philip Broughton has been on the regional Sunday Politics a couple of times recently as the UKIP spokesman.