What's going on?

[fred c]

Go on I'll have one last try.

FFS So this wasn't your "1 Last Try"

Typical of a remainer...... 1 Last Try at Another Referendum

[DRiddle]

In my experience when a brexit voter WON'T give their reasons for voting to leave, the reason almost always centres around immigration.

[akarjl2]

In my experience when a brexit voter WON'T give their reasons for voting to leave, the reason almost always centres around immigration.

I think you are digging a hole for your self here.....you demand and explanation ( despite having no right to do so).

When one is not forthcoming you assume one. ....What a surprise , usually a combination of immigration/racism/bog eyed/looney/liar/deluded/stupid. Is it any surprise that many refuse to be drawn in to providing more opportunities for abuse to be thrown?

I have seen mention here off wanting to know why people may have voted for Brexit because it affects children and future generations...

Perhaps the question should be how do we explain the demise of what used to be known as democracy to kids when a majority voted one way elected representatives in both parliament and local clowncil think otherwise because they believe they know better and constantly prevent the wishes of the majority taking place....and the minority demand an explanation from the majority despite ignoring their wishes.

As many have commented recently, nationally and locally, democracy is finished .

[DRiddle]

I agree with you in so far democracy as should be respected and the referendum result should be delivered.

However, that's a separate issue to my question.

Was immigration a factor for you then?

[akarjl2]

I agree with you in so far democracy as should be respected and the referendum result should be delivered.

However, that's a separate issue to my question.

Was immigration a factor for you then?

Let's turn that around was immigration a factor for you then?

......The record is stuck ...the record is stuck...the record is stuck....The record is stuck ...the record is stuck...the record is stuck....The record is stuck ...the record is stuck...the record is stuck....

[Inspector Knacker]

In my experience when a brexit voter WON'T give their reasons for voting to leave, the reason almost always centres around immigration.

In my experience when people keep asking a question no one will answer they stick in a bit of 'bait' in and hope for bite.
It's called desperation.

[Inspector Knacker]

I agree with you in so far democracy as should be respected and the referendum result should be delivered.

However, that's a separate issue to my question.

Was immigration a factor for you then?

Can't get attention despite multiple attempts and so it descends to the this...after blithely brushing away the democratic vote. Don't bite.

[fred c]

In my experience when a brexit voter WON'T give their reasons for voting to leave, the reason almost always centres around immigration.

David, you are a smart bloke but you really need to consider where you are going with this, your comment implies that everyone on The Post who does not want to engage with your troll like activity on Brexit is anti immigration or to call a spade a shovel, racist.

What next? are Brexit voters homophobes, transgender-phobes, vegan-phobes, yep they are ridiculous excuses, but they are no more ridiculous than your implied
"the reason almost always centres around immigration" comment.

[DRiddle]

You know how this goes chaps. Eventually one of you frothing at the mouth blurts out that YES immigration was a factor in how you voted.

I then say "Ok so which countries do you have a problem with people coming to this country from?"

You then say "Anywhere".

I asked you to be more specific.

Eventually you admit that a key reason was you're unhappy with the number of people here from the Indian Subcontint and well as 'Iraq, Afghanistan and places like that".

Of course, I then point out that the UK already has control of immigration laws relating to people from those countries.

I remind you we literally invited, financially incentivised, begged people to come here from those countries long before the EU was even formed.

The you say "Aaahhh but what about the Polish!?!?"

That's how this plays out isn't it?

[Topcat]

DRiddle, sounds like a variation of the well known classroom trick to find a guilty party,just throw out any random name and then everyone is supposed to turn round and look at the real guilty one.It won't work here Dave the class worked that one out years ago.

[Inspector Knacker]

I don't think Mr Riddle is here to debate, just fish for a scrap to feed on, but the fish ain't biting. He changes the bait but still they ignore him. If, he ever gets a bite, he'll hold the baby stickleback above his head in triumph and cry success. Sad really.
I suspect if the rod and line fail he'll resort to industrial trawling, but we've already got one on here and trawls up everything except the fish.

[DRiddle]

You don't want your masks to slip to reveal your real thoughts, that's fine.

[akarjl2]

we've already got one on here and trawls up everything except the fish.

Wonder who that is? Someone who claims not to even live in the town?

It seems a few here like to fixate on specifics of issues that have caught their attention....rather than focusing on a way ahead for the town. A touch of the  "I always vote labour cos me dad did" approach to life?

Removes the need to consider other options, well the few that are available....no wonder the the town is disintegrating.

[RayPocklington]

David, we have worked together quite a lot in the past and, I hope, we will again in the future. I do, however, disagree with many of your latest posts so I will try and answer your six points.

1   I think nearly every prospective Cllr I've seen (since 2007/08) has made this promise and, I suspect, that at that time believed it to be true. After being elected it soon becomes obvious that that promise is likely to become unachievable. I believe you said something similar before you were elected. An unavoidable fact is that CT has to go up to fund the statutory requirements of the Council. Children and Adult services take the bulk of HBC's budget. If CT didn't rise the services to the vulnerable would likely have to be scaled back. The demand for these services is growing not shrinking.
2   I understand that you were a Labour supporter who became independent who then was instrumental in forming PHF which is now PSF. Circumstances change, change with them.  Your friends Mr and Mrs Brash became Independent Labour and, it seems, Mr Brash has rejoined the party and is standing next year in the Burn Valley Ward.
3   I can't answer the first part of this point but I seem to remember similar comments were made against Drummond by the Labour Party. On the second part you know as well as I that, in theory at least, this is not in any one person's power to grant as it is decided by the votes of ALL Cllrs. However, the last Labour administration showed that the Leader with a majority could impose a three-line whip, effectively deciding on who should chair committees. Hence, Labour and Conservatives chaired all the committees. Current Labour created Christopher's position by forbidding co-operation with the majority group (Brash?). Thomas and Harrison were offered to keep their chairs as they had proved their competency on their respective committees but were not allowed to accept. The Black intervention was an obvious trap (BRASH?). From a bunch of novices, it is surely preferable to have an experienced chair. Many things can be said against Christopher but his chairmanship and knowledge of his briefing was second to none. Whatever is decided in Regen is overseen by Finance and Policy and Audit and Governance, previously chaired by the TorLab group. Now we have Chairs from all parties except Labour who will not co-operate with their opposition.
4   Desire is a wish and circumstances change. I have no problem with that.
5   I don't remember Shane swearing he was not going to join the Brexit Party. Circumstances change, change with them. Changing parties is not exactly unheard of in the political world and it is particularly prevalent in the national parties at this time. I don't remember you asking similar questions about Mr & Mrs Brash and Ged Hall when they crossed the floor or even now with the creation of the SLP, all elected under the Labour banner.
6   I presume you are referring to Mike McLaughlin and John Tennant. The two cases are entirely different. McLaughlin was sold by the Labour Party as a person who lived and worked locally. Tennant made no secret of his wanting to be an MEP and is doing what many politicians do by having two or more positions. You, yourself, had a day job when you were a Cllr as did Hunter, Jackson, Thomas, Brash, Thompson and Black to name a few. As long as he and they can satisfy his/her/their Hartlepool responsibilities, I have no problem with that.

I hope that the above answers your points and show that not all of us have your crystal clear vision. I wear specs - perhaps they need cleaning.

I think most fair minded people are not blinkered but are reserving judgement and giving the new administration time to bed in and prove their worth or otherwise.

Might I suggest that it is you and mk1 who are blinkered.

I agree that no political person or group are above criticism but criticism for criticising sake is not very edifying.

From your posts it appears that you have gone back to your Labour roots and are canvassing for the Labour Party in the coming elections nationally and locally.

As you know, I stood as a Conservative candidate for some years so I had to join the party (the first and only time in my life I was a member of a political party) under their rules. I left because I could not agree with the leadership. I have not joined a political party since. I am apolitical and will work for any Cllr or prospective Cllr I consider to be worthy of my vote. I will criticise or favour any decision according to my own thoughts and experiences e.g. I did not agree with the Independents joining the Brexit Party.

I have toyed with thinking of standing for a political party but there isn't one I find attractive enough. I also consider myself to be too old. Experience, what used to be called wisdom, is no longer recognised.

[mk1]

   I don't remember Shane swearing he was not going to join the Brexit Party. Circumstances change, change with them. Changing parties is not exactly unheard of in the political world and it is particularly prevalent in the national parties at this time.

This is the reply Shane gave on July 27th 2019  when asked directly if he was going to join the Brexit Party.

I myself have no link to the Brexit Party other than that I am a supporter of the UK leaving the EU and not ashamed to say so. I am not a member, supporter or activist. I am an independent councillor and that is how it was remain going forward.

Oh and no, I have absolutely no interests in getting involved with national politics. I've a wife, young family and a dog right here in Hartlepool. I'm small town boy who couldn't think of anything worse than living and working in London. No thank you.

I never believed he was an Independent and  have said this  on the forum many times.  His plan was to get elected and he would say or do anything to achieve that end.  He lied.