I know we're under new stewardship in terms of admin, and it's a thankless task, but seriously.
Why are we blocking threads such as the one on the locked yesterday? Why is it virtually impossible to say anything which is anti-hartlepool brexit party without getting your wrist slapped?
Why is criticising Shane Moore suddenly off the table?
Why is there suddenly a witch hunt against MK1? He's been consistent with his approach and behaviour on this forum for ten years plus. He's doing nothing different now to previously.
As a long standing member (with admin rights which i've had for years but i don't use) and a key 'breaker of news', i'm losing faith in the forum.
I feel if it continues in it's current direction it will lose any credibility which may remain.
It'll also undo a lot of good work by the late Steve Latimer and others.
Locking the thread about the incident in Westbooke Ave was this forums 'Jump the shark' moment.
The Admin hasn't changed since it was taken over after the sad demise of SteveL.
I don't know why the no criticism of the Brexit Party has been brought up, very few people bring the Brexit issue onto the forum apart from mk1.
Similarly I don't see evidence of Admin stopping people posting critcism of Shane Moore, what I do see is derogatory comments on a personel level, in my opinion it's because Shane Moore allowed CAB a chair and became a BP member.
There have been positive moves by the council under Shane Moore and those who criticise him don't have the good grace to give credit where credit is due.
As a long standing member of the Forum I have realised that times and circumstances have moved on from the SCAB / Labour regime to a Labour party v Brexit party or a Leave v Remain issue.
The credibility of The Post depends on the credibility of the posters, so because my views might be diffent to other posters I have lost credibility.
I don't consider there is a "witch hunt" against mk1, there are long standing posters who have different views, but which hunt is a tad paranoid.
I think admin had no other option and did hint that comments were inappropriate...
QuoteThe story is
Escalated to
QuoteThe facts.
Xxx and a relative went to a mans house because they wanted to settle a dispute that man had with another of their relatives.
Unless the poster witnessed the incident the "report" provided did not amount to fact.....and could potentially compromise any criminal case resulting from the alleged incident.
Posts should be considered on a case by case basis
I think on this occasion it was a good call.....
Wasn't the original idea for the Forum built round "high tax Hartlepool"? Funny how the council tax is still going up but no blame is now being laid at the feet of the present Ruling party.
Nowt's changed, it's just opinions that have.
Quote from: akarjl2 on November 06, 2019, 04: PM
]
Unless the poster witnessed the incident the "report" provided did not amount to fact.....and could potentially compromise any criminal case resulting from the alleged incident.
.
Sorry but that is not how it works. Until such time as charges are laid any man (or his dog) can say anything he wants about it. There is no convention that no one can discuss an incident in case it becomes a criminal matter. It is an absurd claim and if adhered to no one would ever be able to say anything about anything.
I can well understand how it could be embarrassing if it does not match the version one person would like us to believe, like say for instance I bunk of school for a jolly but tell the headmaster my Grandad had died and I went to his funeral. I bet if something like that happened today and the funeral turned out to be a lie and I got expelled from school and was waiting a Tribunal (I.E another word for a court) to decide my fate the mods here would lock down the thread and prevent any discussion of the matter (that is sarcasm by the way)
Quote from: fred c on November 06, 2019, 01: PM
orum apart from mk1.
Similarly I don't see evidence of Admin stopping people posting critcism of Shane Moore, what I do see is derogatory comments on a personel level,
Where are these personal comments. If you imply I made them then you are mistaken. Please link these personal remarks so we can make our own judgements. Note that calling someone a liar is not derogatory if you can show the person did lie. Then it is an embarrassing fact.
Quote from: DRiddle on November 06, 2019, 10: AM
Why is it virtually impossible to say anything which is anti-hartlepool brexit party without getting your wrist slapped?
You do not just get your wrists slapped but the offended snowflakes grab pitchforks and torches and march on your castle. They whine that they are not given the respect they deserve and insist anyone who does not see it there way be removed forthwith. I think it is because they hate seeing their arguments destroyed and they would like a safe-space where they can share their silly Diane Abbott and Corbyn memes without being fact-checked.
Quote from: DRiddle on November 06, 2019, 10: AM
Why is criticising Shane Moore suddenly off the table?
Same reason why the turnips still like Trump. If you have a political aim that you consider the most important thing ever in the history of mankind then you will ignore
any fault in the politician you think will deliver your dream. You then stop caring about fairness and simply want to 'win' at all costs. It only matters if a politician is a liar if he holds political views opposite to you. Rules only apply to others not you.
Quote from: mk1 on November 06, 2019, 08: PM
Quote from: fred c on November 06, 2019, 01: PM
orum apart from mk1.
Similarly I don't see evidence of Admin stopping people posting critcism of Shane Moore, what I do see is derogatory comments on a personel level,
Where are these personal comments. If you imply I made them then you are mistaken. Please link these personal remarks so we can make our own judgements. Note that calling someone a liar is not derogatory if you can show the person did lie. Then it is an embarrassing fact.
What on earth are you talking about I wasn't mistaken because I never mentioned you.
As for "links" you make your own judgements on whatever anyone else has an opinion on anyway.
Quote from: fred c on November 06, 2019, 09: PM
What on earth are you talking about I wasn't mistaken because I never mentioned you.
If you bother checking you will see my actual words were:
If you imply I made them then you are mistaken.Note the very first word.
I saw one mention of a personal nature about Shane and to be honest given the torrent of abuse heaped on Labour councillors it was pretty tame stuff.
Quote from: pensionater on November 06, 2019, 04: PM
Wasn't the original idea for the Forum built round "high tax Hartlepool"? Funny how the council tax is still going up but no blame is now being laid at the feet of the present Ruling party.
I brought it up twice and it was completely ignored. Not exactly censorship but an unwillingness to hold Shane to the same standards that applied to the Labour Mob.
Shane has been a poster here for over a decade. His formative years were spent defending Ray Wells against every accusation. He would never admit Ray could do any wrong. For his pains he got shafted when he forgot the Hartlepool Conservative Party was the personal property of the Well's family. He does not seem to have learned from his mistake and is now in a Political Party that is the personal property of one N. Farage. I guess he just likes one-man-bands-likes them so much he formed his own!
Another thing I noticed is the complete end to all mention of how awful a CE Gill is. It seems that opinion 'has changed' as well.
Quote from: mk1 on November 06, 2019, 09: PM
Quote from: DRiddle on November 06, 2019, 10: AM
Why is it virtually impossible to say anything which is anti-hartlepool brexit party without getting your wrist slapped?
You do not just get your wrists slapped but the offended snowflakes grab pitchforks and torches and march on your castle. They whine that they are not given the respect they deserve and insist anyone who does not see it there way be removed forthwith. I think it is because they hate seeing their arguments destroyed and they would like a safe-space where they can share their silly Diane Abbott and Corbyn memes without being fact-checked.
Looks like you've joined the Bullingdon Set if you're looking down on the 'mob' outside your 'castle'.
Sadly, your 'answer' does not 'destroy' every argument unless of course you're claiming you're right every time..... or are guided by the hand of divine intervention, which is a tad unlikely.
Coincidentally, you're going on a bit about Hartlepool Brexit Party, but it looks like no one's stopping you. Take it you'll be supporting Labour then, because no one goes to this much bother over politics for nothing.
As the great man said.......
'There are some ideas so wrong ... that only a 'very intelligent person' could believe in them'.It's a lovely cold night in the Irish Sea with a light easterly.
Quote from: mk1 on November 06, 2019, 08: PM
Quote from: akarjl2 on November 06, 2019, 04: PM
]
Unless the poster witnessed the incident the "report" provided did not amount to fact.....and could potentially compromise any criminal case resulting from the alleged incident.
.
Sorry but that is not how it works. Until such time as charges are laid any man (or his dog) can say anything he wants about it.
I agree- but reporting something you did not personally witness, based on reports of others to be a a FACT is actually incorrect, it is known as
QuoteHearsay, in Anglo-American law, testimony that consists of what the witness has heard others say.
If, of course
you actually witnessed the incident then you will I assume be asked to provide a witness statement and potentially be called as a witness in any proceedings associated with the incident.
So if it was not a FACT then it is speculation.
If it was a FACT then you are a witness and as a concerned citizen should offer to provide a statement.
In both cases I still think it was prudent to close comments down regarding what may or may not have happened on this occasion.
Quote from: akarjl2 on November 07, 2019, 07: AM
Unless the poster witnessed the incident the "report" provided did not amount to fact.....and could potentially compromise any criminal case resulting from the alleged incident.
Hearsay, in Anglo-American law, testimony that consists of what the witness has heard others say.
It depends who I am quoting. See if you can work out why I said it was fact. The rest is still bollocks because rules that
only apply in a courthouse have no bearing in normal conversation. I say what I say and you can believe or dismiss it at your leisure. I do not care in the least. I am amazed so many bogus 'legal' restriction on free speech are being advanced. I think you watched too much Perry Mason as a child.
I surely can't be the only one who added "So There" and stamped my foot at the end of Mk1s statement.
I'm afraid you are. ;D
No one seems to know how the real situation, unless they were there. So if in doubt.....?
To quote mk1
"I say what I say and you can believe or dismiss it at your leisure. I do not care in the least."
That quote also applies to the other posters on this forum who unfortunately are regularly castigated for their opinions.
Here's a 'hypothetical' scenario to chew over.
Supposing a SCAB had campaigned on the promise he would not vote to raise council tax, then once elected, he voted to raise council tax. How would you feel?
Supposing a SCAB had campaigned as an independent in a town showing frustration towards national parties, then, once elected, joined national party. How would you feel?
Supposing a SCAB had literally NAMED Christopher Akers- Belcher in campaign literature, strongly implying he was a big factor in the problems in the council and suggesting assurance that a vote the right way would REMOVE Christopher Akers-Belcher from a position of authority in the council, then, once elected, GIVE him a significant position of authority. How would you feel?
Supposing a SCAB had literally stated he had no desire to become leader of the council, then BECAME leader of the council. How would you feel?
Supposing a SCAB had swore blind he wasn't going to join the Brexit Party, then he joined the brexit party. How would you feel?
Supposing a SCAB shouted from the rooftops about a councillor living and working 100s of miles away from Hartlepool, then MOVED 100 (1000s actually) of miles away to live and work. How would you feel?
The point I am making and MK1 was/is making is crystal clear to me. I can't see why others can't see it.
What's happened on the forum lately is people are being very blinkered by the fact that Shane and the brexit group are NOT the SCABS.
Whilst this is obviously correct, look at the 6 things i've outlined above. They all HAPPENED.
Yet on the forum people seem more fixated in celebrating the fact that the new ruling group are NOT the SCABS. In doing so, they're totally blinkered to a lot of 'scab like hypocrisy'.
You need to realise that literally ANYONE was going to be a 'refreshing change' from the SCABS tenure in control of HBCs purse strings.
No political person or group should ever be totally immune to criticism.
Especially when it's clearly justified when you look at the 6 scenarios i've outlined above.
Take the blinkers off people.
"The point I am making and MK1 was/is making is crystal clear to me. I can't see why others can't see it.
What's happened on the forum lately is people are being very blinkered by the fact that Shane and the brexit group are NOT the SCABS.
Whilst this is obviously correct, look at the 6 things i've outlined above. They all HAPPENED.
Yet on the forum people seem more fixated in celebrating the fact that the new ruling group are NOT the SCABS. In doing so, they're totally blinkered to a lot of 'scab like hypocrisy'.
You need to realise that literally ANYONE was going to be a 'refreshing change' from the SCABS tenure in control of HBCs purse strings.
No political person or group should ever be totally immune to criticism.
Especially when it's clearly justified when you look at the 6 scenarios i've outlined above.
Take the blinkers off people.
You really need to give people more credit, accusing people of being blinkered is your opinion, it's totally uncalled for and more importantly bollox, of course some of the points you have raised have been acknowledged by members of this forum, the difference between them and you is that they realise things have changed.
There won't be a single user of this forum who wasn't and isn't absolutely and totally aware that any change from the SCABS tenure would be a refeshing change, we don't need you David to tell us that.
It is also your assumption and it is only an assumption that users of this forum are "Fixated in celebrating the fact that the new ruling group are not the SCABS", I don't see any celebrating, what I see is the realisation that those that have replaced them are making a genuine effort to inprove the things.
This post is symptomatic of the visceral bias shown by you towards anyone who doesn't think as you do, look no further than your stance of Brexit.
FYI David, I am not blinkered, nor am I removed from offering criticism on matters in local politics, neither I am prone to talking down to people on this forum or anywhere else, my opinions are every bit as valid as your opinions...... because David, that is all they are opinions.
Quote from: fred c on November 07, 2019, 12: PM
the difference between them and you is that they realise things have changed.
Have they?
As pointed out we have a 'local' Councillor who has a full-time job with a National Political Party and a post as an MEP. Explain to me how that man can call himself an 'Independent'?
Quote from: fred c on November 07, 2019, 12: PM
what I see is the realisation that those that have replaced them are making a genuine effort to inprove the things.
Are they?
Why have the gone for the maximum CT rise despite promising they would reduce it?
What exactly has improved since Shane lied about being an Independent, lied about not wanting to join The Brexit Party, lied about not wanting to be council leader, lied about removing the SCABs and lied about wanting to reduce CT?
Quote from: fred c on November 07, 2019, 11: AM
To quote mk1
"I say what I say and you can believe or dismiss it at your leisure. I do not care in the least."
That quote also applies to the other posters on this forum who unfortunately are regularly castigated for their opinions.
Glad you pointed out that the problem is snowflakes who can not bear to see their opinions challenged.
My stance on staying or leaving the EU has been consistent for my 10 years plus on this forum. I have yet to hear a coherent, reasoned, evidenced based argument from anyone on here about WHY they think brexit is a good idea.
When challenged to provide reasoning, people quickly resort to 'why should i tell you?, i'll keep my reasons to myself etc.' or they utter some absolutely meaningless 'platitude' about taking back control. In some cases they mask what is fairly clearly xenophobia, behind the mask of 'British values'.
As we speak there are working class lads and lasses in places like Hartlepool chomping at the bit to vote for an old Etonian millionaire because they think he'll deliver on brexit, or for a spiv from the city who probably doesnt know where Hartlepool is on a map.
The reality is IF brexit happens it'll spell the end of the NHS and the gap between the haves and the haves not's will widen sharply and painfully. This election is very likely to lead to 5-10 years more of Tory austerity, broken promises, an almost permanent transition period (Brexit won't happen in the way brexit voters want it to, fact), and further cuts in public services.
I said months and months ago we'd have a big name Brexit party candidate in Hartlepool, possibly even the main man Nigel Farage himself.
It's happening . . . https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/07/brexit-party-chairman-richard-tice-expected-to-stand-in-hartlepool
Nothing good will come of a brexit party council and nothing* good will come of a brexit party hartlepool mp.
But please, crack on.
P.S *One thing good that will come of it is when i collect my winnings at the bookies. ;)
Quote from: DRiddle on November 07, 2019, 12: PM
No political person or group should ever be totally immune to criticism.
We lag behind the US but Trumpian Politics are coming here. Boris is openly trying to ape Trump's tactics . This is a recent voter panel after Trump 'lost' Virginia for the Republicans and what the women say is chilling.
https://youtu.be/wsTYso3hmEA?t=355
It is posted as
an example of a mind-set that illustrates how blind loyalty to a political ideal can corrupt.
"As we speak there are working class lads and lasses in places like Hartlepool chomping at the bit to vote for an old Etonian millionaire because they think he'll deliver on brexit, or for a spiv from the city who probably doesnt know where Hartlepool is on a map"
You appear to be unable to grasp the 'Basic Fact David, that, that is their choice they made that democratic choice at the ballot box.
Quote from: fred c on November 07, 2019, 04: PM
You appear to be unable to grasp the 'Basic Fact David, that, that is their choice they made that democratic choice at the ballot box.
When given the chance to confirm this by a vote for a Party that has as its one single aim the delivery of the hardest possible Brexit they voted for Labour.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/921/iFPncZ.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/pliFPncZj)
I know it's their 'choice' in theory. However, what I never hear are THEIR views. I hear people quoting rubbish from the Daily Mail and reciting slogans from campaigns funded by billionaire tax dodgers. I hear people passing off the lies of rich men with vested interests as 'truths'.
I'm 'only 42' but never in my life have a seen such a gullible electorate.
I've still yet to hear ONE single coherent arguement for leaving the EU on this forum.
I'm happy to hear one.
Cue the tumbleweeds.
Quote from: DRiddle on November 07, 2019, 03: PM
My stance on staying or leaving the EU has been consistent for my 10 years plus on this forum.
Perhaps you would like to explain why you believe remaining will benefit
Hartlepool .....
I voted leave but as the years go by and people forget what it was like not to be governed by Europe, irrespective of the referendum results Brexit is unlikely to happen and I have come to accept it. I
f we had another referendum I would vote remain as we either face years of so called elected representatives not representing their electorate and arguing to prevent Brexit OR we decide to remain and slowly become just a region of Europe governed from Strasburg. Loose/Loose really I see no difference between the muppets in parliament and the leaders of Europe. We need to give up and move on ....
If we remain in Europe ....To throw more grenades in to the discussion...I also believe Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland should be given independence - if we are to in effect become a "region" within Europe let them get on with it ...do away with parliament and give the English region an assembly to run our affairs ....
Ok that is the blue touch paper lit.............
Quote from: fred c on November 07, 2019, 04: PM
"As we speak there are working class lads and lasses in places like Hartlepool chomping at the bit to vote for an old Etonian millionaire because they think he'll deliver on brexit, or for a spiv from the city who probably doesnt know where Hartlepool is on a map"
You appear to be unable to grasp the 'Basic Fact David, that, that is their choice they made that democratic choice at the ballot box.
You forgot the other choice -the Hammas/IRA supporting Trotskyist who wants to take us back to the trade union lead lunacy of the 70s.....anyone remember 1979?
There really is no choice in Hartlepool. They all talk and do nothing- it seems pointless even voting.
Quote from: DRiddle on November 07, 2019, 06: PM
I know it's their 'choice' in theory. However, what I never hear are THEIR views. I hear people quoting rubbish from the Daily Mail and reciting slogans from campaigns funded by billionaire tax dodgers. I hear people passing off the lies of rich men with vested interests as 'truths'.
I'm 'only 42' but never in my life have a seen such a gullible electorate.
I've still yet to hear ONE single coherent arguement for leaving the EU on this forum.
I'm happy to hear one.
Cue the tumbleweeds.
Yep, you have the talking down to people you consider inferior to yourself off to a tee.......I have no idea what you mean by a tumble weed, is it a derogatory term and is it aimed at me. ?
No it's not aimed at you Fred.
It's hardly lighting the blue touchpaper when you flip the argument back to me having to argue why I voted remain.
I've listed thousands of reasons to remain in the EU on this forum over the years.
I've yet to hear a valid reason why we should leave.
Quote from: fred c on November 07, 2019, 07: PM
...I have no idea what you mean by a tumble weed, is it a derogatory term and is it aimed at me. ?
That will be David making an allusion to an empty space where nothing moves except the odd tumbleweed caught by the wind. I presume he is implying that none of his points about Shane will be addressed and they will simply be ignored. I think he is correct as so far this is the standard (non) tactic whenever any of the ways in which the current Council acts in the exact same as the old Council is mentioned.
No one has (so far) defended Shane and no attempt has been made to justify or explain his questionable actions. I guess the duplicity is so obvious that no cogent defense is possible
Quote from: DRiddle on November 07, 2019, 08: PM
It's hardly lighting the blue touchpaper
I was referring to the suggestion we should split the union up....
Quote from: akarjl2 on November 07, 2019, 06: PM
..anyone remember 1979?
I remember the 1970s I once left a job on Friday morning and started another on the following Monday. I also got sacked once for doing the exact same as my supervisor (going off-site to buy a bacon sandwich) but nothing happened to him and the much maligned 'Union power' could do nothing to save me. So yes I remember the 'bad' old days. It had advantages and it had disadvantages. Life is complex and the current polarized winner-takes-all and fcuk the losers' choice offered on nearly every issue rarely delivers satisfactory results .
Here is what Shane said in July
Quote from: SRMoore on July 27, 2019, 04: PM
You're right, you haven't asked me those questions before but I have been asked on social media which is where I remember answering them.
I attended the Farage visit to the marina as I was supporting a friend, John Tennant, who we all know was standing in the European Elections as a Brexit Party candidate.
I myself have no link to the Brexit Party other than that I am a supporter of the UK leaving the EU and not ashamed to say so. I am not a member, supporter or activist. I am an independent councillor and that is how it was remain going forward.
Oh and no, I have absolutely no interests in getting involved with national politics. I've a wife, young family and a dog right here in Hartlepool. I'm small town boy who couldn't think of anything worse than living and working in London. No thank you.
And here is Shane today.
https://www.hartlepoolmail.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-party-chairman-richard-tice-announces-he-standing-mp-hartlepool-919419
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/924/KK6Aj5.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/poKK6Aj5j)
Anyone able to 'Spot the difference'?
Aahhh so Corbyn is a Trotskyist, I see. Therefore because of that the best alternative is Boris Johnson?
Let's suppose Corbyn is advocating an alternative economic system or some significant adaptation of our current one.
Is that so bad?
Quote from: DRiddle on November 07, 2019, 09: PM
Aahhh so Corbyn is a Trotskyist, I see. Therefore because of that the best alternative is Boris Johnson?
Let's suppose Corbyn is advocating an alternative economic system or some significant adaptation of our current one.
Is that so bad?
I suspect that The Labour Manifesto spending plans are actually lower than the Tory proposals. That is another thing I miss-all the jokes about the Labour 'Magic Money Tree'!
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/921/0c4W1d.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/pl0c4W1dj)
Quote from: DRiddle on November 07, 2019, 09: PM
the best alternative is Boris Johnson?
Did I say that? They are all as bad as each other local and national none of them can be trusted.
I have heard Shane's bin was ticketed and left this week because it was too heavy to lift on account of it overflowing with these old flyers.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/922/CuQr0u.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/pmCuQr0uj)
This is very bad news for the Brexiteers. Their vote is split and it is a massive own-goal.
Close the board down till the 13th December, because all we're going to get is this condescending nonsense turning the board into a place to be avoided on pain of being bored to death or patronised.
Or was that the intention?
Anywhere the 'B' word is allowed now becomes a place of recoil to the 'enlightened'.
Quote from: DRiddle on November 07, 2019, 07: PM
No it's not aimed at you Fred.
So if it's not, you must know who it is aimed at.
Quote from: Inspector Knacker on November 07, 2019, 09: PM
Close the board down till the 13th December, because all we're going to get is.........................'.
.................awkward facts that Shane can not explain away.
Rather than address Shanes duplicity you now want to 'close down the board'?
I said this earlier:
Quote from: mk1 on November 07, 2019, 08: PM
No one has (so far) defended Shane and no attempt has been made to justify or explain his questionable actions. I guess the duplicity is so obvious that no cogent defense is possible
and your censorship call is confirmation the
duplicity is so obvious that no cogent defense is possible
Quote from: mk1 on November 07, 2019, 09: PM
I have heard Shane's bin was ticketed and left this week because it was too heavy to lift on account of it overflowing with these old flyers.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/922/CuQr0u.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/pmCuQr0uj)
Thanks MK1, genuinely made me laugh out loud.
Still on duty... or QRA...? ;D This is almost Pythonesque. ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: DRiddle on November 07, 2019, 06: PM
I'm 'only 42' but never in my life have a seen such a gullible electorate.
aka anyone who doesn't embrace my informed opinion
I've still yet to hear ONE single coherent arguement for leaving the EU on this forum.
You never will, because in your world there is no credible reason for leaving.
I'm actually very willing to listen and discuss reasons for leaving. I'll listen to and consider any reason people care to raise.
The frustrating thing from my point of view is . . . No one ever does.
There are people on here who don't seem willing and are possibly unable to explain why they voted to leave.
Isn't that really saddening? You vote to do something, but you don't know WHY you did it.
And as for the suggestion to lock down the whole forum. Lol 😂
Yes, let's lock down a forum specifically designed for political discussion right in the middle of a general election. A general election which COULD change the established political order for decades. A general election which could result in a few Brexit party candidates including one right here in Hartlepool. A general election which could end 60 years of Labour control in Hartlepool.
Yes, let's lock down a political discussion forum right bang smack in the middle of those circumstances.
FFS.
Quote from: DRiddle on November 08, 2019, 06: AM
And as for the suggestion to lock down the whole forum. Lol 😂
A general election which could result in a few Brexit party candidates including one right here in Hartlepool. A general election which could end 60 years of Labour control in Hartlepool.
.....Which needs to happen but results in the town being controlled by who/what? A team of liars who follow the money it would seem?....nothing actually different then?
Nobody with any sense will ever trust Shane and his cronies, his antics have been well documented here by MK1. yet again we end up with a group of wannabes hell bent on boosting their egos, their perceived standing in the community and in some cases their bank balances.
The whole system needs overhauling...god knows why we need a local clowncil ( why not have a team of qualified experienced managers?) and why in this day and age are electoral decisions not based on proportional representation driven by a web based voting system.
Another can of worms opened....
Quote from: DRiddle on November 08, 2019, 06: AM
I'm actually very willing to listen and discuss reasons for leaving. I'll listen to and consider any reason people care to raise.
The frustrating thing from my point of view is . . . No one ever does.
There are people on here who don't seem willing and are possibly unable to explain why they voted to leave.
Unbelievable pomposity. Why would anyone debate with you, you could 'debate' with a gate post for all the good it would do.
You are incapable of debate because all you wish to do is spread your inflexible, uncompromising doctrine and hope a few of the 'gullibles' will swallow the guff and join those who are joyously saved by the Pied piper of Remain, the damned who won't can be discounted as gullible oafs.
Given the many claims that Steve would not be happy with the way the
UKIP The IU The Brexit Party are treated I thought we could do with an actual example (as in one of many examples) of how he saw things
Quote from: steveL on April 28, 2015, 01: PM
In fact, you're a typical UKIPper; blinkered vision, ignorant and someone who sees everything in terms of black and white - literally.
Quote from: mk1 on November 07, 2019, 10: PM
Quote from: Inspector Knacker on November 07, 2019, 09: PM
Close the board down till the 13th December, because all we're going to get is.........................'.
.................awkward facts that Shane can not explain away.
Rather than address Shanes duplicity you now want to 'close down the board'?
I said this earlier:
Quote from: mk1 on November 07, 2019, 08: PM
No one has (so far) defended Shane and no attempt has been made to justify or explain his questionable actions. I guess the duplicity is so obvious that no cogent defense is possible
and your censorship call is confirmation the duplicity is so obvious that no cogent defense is possible
Censorship, oh dear.
I don't know how to break this to you, but I'll try. Nobody cares.
The only people banging on obsessively are you, David and a couple of fan club members. You're shouting in an echo chamber.
It's like walking past one of those odd Christian sect churches and some persistent firebrand is preaching hell and damnation from the pulpit to a congregation, 99% of which left a long, long time ago, but still the Vicar of Remain and his curate persist in praying for and saving the souls of sinners who fell victim to the lure of Brexit.
Shane on Farage some 3 political conversions ago:
Quote from: SRMoore on April 28, 2015, 12: PM
UKIP's new election poster unveiled in Grimsby today highlights the plight of fishing businesses that have been 'gutted due to the EU'. Greenpeace has responded that UKIP's voting record in the European Parliament and Nigel Farage's appalling attendance on the Fisheries Committee makes a mockery of UKIP's claim to be standing up for fishermen.
Over the three years that Nigel Farage was a member of the European Parliament Fisheries Committee, he attended one out of 42 meetings. Greenpeace research released today shows that during the three major votes to fix the flaws of the Common Fisheries Policy (CFP), Nigel Farage was in the building but failed to vote in favour of improving the legislation.
In 2013, Nigel Farage was again present but chose not to vote on the part of the reform of the CFP that introduces an obligation on governments to give more fishing quota to sustainable fishermen who contribute the most to the local, coastal economies. This would see the government giving more fishing quota to local, low impact fishing fleets, such as the fishermen featured in UKIP's poster.
. There was a vote for an amendment to the CFP regulation on using environmental and social criteria to allocate fishing opportunities and incentives for low impact fishing (this is more or less article 17 of the final regulation) – on 6 Feb 2013
This amendment was passed with 366 in favour (55%). 9 out of 10 UKIP MEPs abstained (in line with the position of their EU group) but Nigel Farage again was the only UKIP MEP who didn't vote, even though he would have been in the building.
http://term7.votewatch.eu/en/common-fisheries-policy-draft-legislative-resolution-after-article-16-amendment-227-ordinary-legisla.html
Nigel Farage turned up to just one out of 42 meetings on the fisheries committee when he was on it. (£) http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/85563e82-8f44-11e3-be85-00144feab7de.html
Original article - http://www.greenpeace.org.uk/media/press-releases/farage%E2%80%99s-voting-record-fishing-%E2%80%98makes-mockery%E2%80%99-new-election-poster-20150408 (http://www.greenpeace.org.uk/media/press-releases/farage%E2%80%99s-voting-record-fishing-%E2%80%98makes-mockery%E2%80%99-new-election-poster-20150408)
And:
Quote from: SRMoore on April 09, 2014, 08: AM
Residents are right when they refer to you as the Nigel Farage of PHF. A one man band full of empty rhetoric and populist sound bites.
Quote from: mk1 on November 08, 2019, 07: AM
Given the many claims that Steve would not be happy with the way the UKIP The IU The Brexit Party are treated I thought we could do with an actual example (as in one of many examples) of how he saw things
Quote from: steveL on April 28, 2015, 01: PM
In fact, you're a typical UKIPper; blinkered vision, ignorant and someone who sees everything in terms of black and white - literally.
There are no shades of grey in your world, just binary black or white. No middle ground, just good or bad, right or wrong.
Inflexibility and compromise an anathema
Quote from: Inspector Knacker on November 08, 2019, 07: AM
The only people banging on obsessively are ........
me and BA
https://youtu.be/gjjuY5qetnw?t=137
me and Cher
https://youtu.be/KfyBHZc9rK4?t=29
and me and Peter
https://youtu.be/sPYdnkK9Fqc?t=34
Nah, just YOU & YOU.
Quote from: Inspector Knacker on November 08, 2019, 08: AM
Nah, just YOU &.............
me and a dog named Boo?
https://youtu.be/8ACCcekWMWA?t=39
Talking of puppies............
https://youtu.be/3E0xJpi9rK8?t=72
Anyone thinking about supporting Corbyn nationally/Labour locally something to consider
https://twitter.com/huddorama/status/1192080661257097216?s=12
I'll just repeat what i said, except in more blunt terms.
Nobody yet has offered up a specific or series of specific reasons for why they voted to leave the EU.
I actually don't think anyone attacking me is ABLE to. It's not as simple as they WON'T, it's they CAN'T.
It's not me saying you don't know WHAT you voted for, it's me saying you don't know WHY you voted the way you did. ???
DRiddle,I personally voted to leave the EU because I wanted to ,because I was offered a personal choice in what I wanted and because I was able to let my choice be known. That was a good enough set of reasons for me and it should be enough for you and everyone else to accept my choice and not try to impose their own choice on me.
Quote from: DRiddle on November 08, 2019, 10: AM
I'll just repeat what i said, except in more blunt terms.
Nobody yet has offered up a specific or series of specific reasons for why they voted to leave the EU.
I actually don't think anyone attacking me is ABLE to. It's not as simple as they WON'T, it's they CAN'T.
How modest of you.
Has it never occurred to you that people know what the outcome of stepping into that minefield of finger wagging will be and give it a wide berth.
Accept the fact you're not the Messiah and come down to earth. We don't need lecturing to, re-educating, enlightening, saving, our eyes opening, thought re-alignment, blinkers taking from our eyes, just try to accept the result.
Just a thought, but if the Councillors had voted to join the Lib Dem's or the Labour Party, would you be having the vapours still.....?
Topcat, having a choice on what you can do isn't a reason why you did it.
Choice - an act of choosing between two or more possibilities.
Reason - a cause, explanation, or justification for an action or event.
A choice isn't a reason in the same way a dog isn't a washing machine.
If you can't offer a reason then that's fine. But that was my point. Most brexit voters i've met can't.
QuoteJust a thought, but if the Councillors had voted to join the Lib Dem's or the Labour Party, would you be having the vapours still.....?
Yes, if ANY councillors were elected as independents then very quickly opted to join a political party i would speak out about it.
Quote from: Topcat on November 08, 2019, 10: AM
DRiddle,I personally voted to leave the EU because I wanted to ,because I was offered a personal choice in what I wanted and because I was able to let my choice be known. That was a good enough set of reasons for me and it should be enough for you and everyone else to accept my choice and not try to impose their own choice on me.
Here Here! aka democracy.....a concept which has been ignored by most members of parliament, many of whom should be bricking it now as they face xmas 2019 on the dole........
Quote from: DRiddle on November 08, 2019, 11: AM
But that was my point. Most brexit voters i've met can't.
An assumption? Perhaps it is simple a case of they believe why they voted a certain way is none of your business?
I do agree with some of your logic , anyone elected as an independent who then chooses to join a specific political party should resign- they were elected by an area to act independently ;)
jeez, a marriage made in hell: Riddle & mk1.
Tinpot dictators, belittling anyone that dares to offer up an opinion, opposite to their myopic viewpoint.
People on here are not complaining about mk1's point of view on subjects, just his vituperative language against those that are allowed (by law), to have their own opinions on various subjects.
If you don't follow HIS line of thought, you immediately are referred to as a 'bong-eyed loon' etc, etc, ad nauseam.
In a democratic society, people are allowed differing points of view. Political discourse should be encouraged, without reference to schoolyard name-calling.
Riddle says he hasn't seen any reason put on here WHY we want to leave the EUSSR. There has been, many times. Unlike mk1, I can't be ar**& to go back and search for them but here's MY reasons;
I want to trade with Europe but do not want our legal and political spheres run by the likes of unelected Junckers, Barniers etc. can you imagine France & Germany allowing themselves to be run by a cabal from England, Scotland, Ireland & Wales?
I can imagine Juncker gasping over his glass of Petrus '45 at the very thought.
Before we pour more billions into the EU, I want their books to be passed by an independent auditor. For 20 odd years the accounts of the EUSSR have failed to 'balance'.
No company in the world would be allowed to disburse so much money, for so long, without financial probity.
According to mk1, the EUSSR had no intention of having its own army. We now know that along with its own police force (Europol), it is well on the way to its own army. German ministers have voiced the opinion it own to be administered by the German ministry.
I have an uneasy feeling of deja vu.
Riddle still thinks he is talking down to schoolkids; sit up straight at the back, remove that chewing gum at once boy! How condescending.
Like others, I rarely post on here any more. Some of the best posters of the past are long gone.
These days, even a great guy like fred c is pilloried for having the audacity to have his own opinions on a subject.
No, posters are not afraid to voice opinions, simply sick of reading the long diatribe of attacks on people, simply for having their own point of view.
That way lies Stalin, Pol Pot, Hitler, Mussolini, Ghadaffi, Hussein, Mugabe, Ceausescu etc.
You don't have a 'point of view' simply because you've exercised your democratic right to vote brexit. That's a CHOICE, as i explained.
A point of view involves being able to articulate that viewpoint.
Quotedo not want our legal and political spheres run
Which legal spheres are you looking forward to having autonomy over post brexit? Is there a particular EU law or laws which grind your gears?
You don't have a 'point of view' simply because you've exercised your democratic right to vote brexit. That's a CHOICE, as i explained.
A point of view involves being able to articulate that viewpoint
It is also a choice not to want to get involved in a debate with someone who will never admit that his point of view could possibly be wrong. I think it is something they learn at teacher training college.
I voted to leave because my belly (gut feeling) told me it was the right thing to do, and that's good enough for me.
Quote from: akarjl2 on November 08, 2019, 12: PM
Quote from: DRiddle on November 08, 2019, 11: AM
But that was my point. Most brexit voters i've met can't.
I do agree with some of your logic , anyone elected as an independent who then chooses to join a specific political party should resign- they were elected by an area to act independently ;)
It's a point I'd agree with normally. HOWEVER....when MP's started migrating across the chamber to join the Lib Dem's, it was proclaimed OK to have change of mind and OK for voters change their minds after all it was a looooong time since that pesky referendum vote. So what's good for the goose is good for the gander.
Excellent, so my point was (and is) i've yet to meat a brexit voter willing or able to offer legitimate factual reasons for why they voted the way they did.
I've asked for reasons several times and as yet literally nobody has offered any, of any substance.
Perhaps you're unwilling, but perhaps you're unable.
I suspect it's the latter.
Quote from: Inspector Knacker on November 08, 2019, 02: PM
Quote from: akarjl2 on November 08, 2019, 12: PM
Quote from: DRiddle on November 08, 2019, 11: AM
But that was my point. Most brexit voters i've met can't.
I do agree with some of your logic , anyone elected as an independent who then chooses to join a specific political party should resign- they were elected by an area to act independently ;)
It's a point I'd agree with normally. HOWEVER....when MP's started migrating across the chamber to join the Lib Dem's, it was proclaimed OK to have change of mind and OK for voters change their minds after all it was a looooong time since that pesky referendum vote. So what's good for the goose is good for the gander.
Proclaimed ok by whom?
The only people who seem to think it is ok to change their minds are the mp's changing their minds.
If someone is elected by voters as a representative of a specific party and then resign from the party and join another one they should resign and allow voters the opportunity choose someone who represents their political views. The current system allows clowncillers or MPs to change their minds without the electorate being consulted.
Bit like engaging a driver with a jag because you want to be driven around in a jag .....who then decides a Skoda would be more to THEIR liking= time to get a driver with a jag......
Quote from: DRiddle on November 08, 2019, 04: PM
Excellent, so my point was (and is) i've yet to meat a brexit voter willing or able to offer legitimate factual reasons for why they voted the way they did.
I've asked for reasons several times and as yet literally nobody has offered any, of any substance.
Perhaps you're unwilling, but perhaps you're unable.
I suspect it's the latter.
Correct...personally I see no reason to...especially when politicians change parties without seeking the approval of the electorate.
Isn't that a completely separate issue? In that all the MP's who have jumped ship of late have changed parties (mostly) because of their views on brexit?
They've articulated their reasons for wanting to join either a more brexit focused party, or a more remain advocating party.
You seem to have voted brexit without a clue as to actually why you did so. Don't you think it's strange to do something like vote without actually having reasons for your choice?
Quote from: akarjl2 on November 08, 2019, 04: PM
Proclaimed ok by whom?
The only people who seem to think it is ok to change their minds are the mp's changing their minds.
Swinson for a start, I didn't see her scolding them and sending them back to their electorate to get the OK.
If someone is elected by voters as a representative of a specific party and then resign from the party and join another one they should resign and allow voters the opportunity choose someone who represents their political views. The current system allows clowncillers or MPs to change their minds without the electorate being consulted.
I don't recall you coming on here to complain about the MP's . Come on, let's not beat about the bush, it's because they joined the Brexit Party.?
Bit like engaging a driver with a jag because you want to be driven around in a jag .....who then decides a Skoda would be more to THEIR liking= time to get a driver with a jag......
This gets interesting. So which Party is the Jag....... ? Labour?
Quote from: DRiddle on November 08, 2019, 04: PM
You seem to have voted brexit without a clue as to actually why you did so.
You have no idea why I voted the way I did.
I choose not to discuss why I voted the way I did.
Big difference - elected politicians should not have the luxury of jumping ship without seeking the approval of the people they allegedly represent.
Just saying.........
Quote from: DRiddle on November 08, 2019, 04: PM
Isn't that a completely separate issue? In that all the MP's who have jumped ship of late have changed parties (mostly) because of their views on brexit?
They've articulated their reasons for wanting to join either a more brexit focused party, or a more remain advocating party.
Of course they've 'articulated' their reasons, it's what they do for a living, so it's ok for them but no one else more 'local'? Why should any private citizen have to justify their reasons for voting to anyone, we don't use commissars.
You seem to have voted brexit without a clue as to actually why you did so. Don't you think it's strange to do something like vote without actually having reasons for your choice?
How exactly would you know they didn't have a clue? those reasons are personal for some people and do not have to be justified to anyone.
I'm not saying you HAVE to tell me. I said that in my experience most Brexit voters won't or can't reveal their reasons for voting that way.
It's fine, you've proved my point. You're in the "I'm not telling you" camp. Which is your prerogative.
My prerogative is to assume that that's because of that you're also in the "I CAN'T tell you" camp. ;)
Additionally, is anyone going to clarify which law or laws you feel Britain will be free from post Brexit? I have asked this already but was met with silence.
Quote from: DRiddle on November 08, 2019, 05: PM
I'm not saying you HAVE to tell me. I said that in my experience most Brexit voters won't or can't reveal their reasons for voting that way.
It's fine, you've proved my point. You're in the "I'm not telling you" camp. Which is your prerogative.
My prerogative is to assume that that's because of that you're also in the "I CAN'T tell you" camp. ;)
Based on that arrogant response I would suggest you do not give up your day job.......... ;)
Quote from: Inspector Knacker on November 08, 2019, 05: PM
Come on, let's not beat about the bush, it's because they joined the Brexit Party.?
Bollocks. Its because Shane lied. He lied to get elected and he never was an independent. That was a deliberate deception in order to get elected.
I said it at the time and here some random examples from May &July :
Quote from: mk1 on May 21, 2019, 10: PM
I hope all those who voted independent are prepared for the lurch to the far-right. Perhaps we can expect a visit from Tommy Knobinson and Sargon. I will have to stock up on milkshakes but mine will be frozen solid for a knockout blow!
Quote from: mk1 on July 26, 2019, 04: PM
Its 100% certain that the IU is Farage stalking Horse. It is absolutely certain they will fight any GE as Farage Stooges and it was the plan before the last election. Tennant is a senior member of Farage's bandwagon and the prospective Farage Candidate for Hartlepool has already been chosen. They will not reveal who it is because that would give the game away and finally destroy the fiction of an 'Independent' Council.
Polls have shown that the obsessive Brexiteers are quite prepared to see the UK break up to get their fantasy. When people are that myopic then we are indeed in for a rough ride.
Of course all this speculation can be ended quite easily by Shane publicly stating he will never join, stand for, campaign for or have anything to do with the Farage Bandwagon.
Shane used to message me bits of anti-Labour gossip knowing I would post them with a bit of added spin. He even chided me once when he thought I had gone over the top.
I was even taken in myself. When Labour put it about a deal was in the works to allow CAB to retain a Chair I attacked Brash as a liar. Turns out Labour were not lying so even the best of us can be deceived.
Quote from: grim reaper on November 08, 2019, 12: PM
In a democratic society, people are allowed differing points of view. Political discourse should be encouraged, without reference to schoolyard name-calling.
Do they?
Quote from: grim reaper on November 08, 2019, 12: PM
Tinpot dictators..............the EUSSR.......sick of reading the long diatribe of attacks on people, simply for having their own point of view.
That way lies Stalin, Pol Pot, Hitler, Mussolini, Ghadaffi, Hussein, Mugabe, Ceausescu etc.
By the way you missed one......................Trump.
Love also that an old long-discredited fiction is still being parroted:
For 20 odd years the accounts of the EUSSR have failed to 'balance'.
Another example of my warnings/predictive powers . Some of us were never taken in by the lie about being independents.
Quote from: mk1 on May 30, 2019, 01: PM
It is blindingly obvious from tone and body language that the interviewer does not believe a word of what Shane is telling her about the SAB disaster. Given they are former Party Colleagues and no questions asked about 2 jobs Tennant and the upcoming renaming of The IU as UKIP Mk II it was a chance for Shane to put the best spin on events and he completely failed.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/273708489455822/permalink/1327202670773060/
Quote from: mk1 on November 08, 2019, 06: PM
Bollocks. Its because Shane lied. He lied to get elected and he never was an independent. That was a deliberate deception in order to get elected.
Back of the net....
Quote from: DRiddle on November 08, 2019, 12: PM
You don't have a 'point of view' simply because you've exercised your democratic right to vote brexit. That's a CHOICE, as i explained.
A point of view involves being able to articulate that viewpoint.
Quotedo not want our legal and political spheres run
Which legal spheres are you looking forward to having autonomy over post brexit? Is there a particular EU law or laws which grind your gears?
This reply to 'grim reaper' hits the nail firmly on the napper, he provides a number of reasons for his decision on brexit to David and still he come back again and again.
"That's a Choice as I have explained"Why does he feel it necessary to trot out yet another condescending reply, talking down to someone whilst hoping for debate with that person is more likely to result in them 'logging out' and a ffs not again
grim reapers replies were articulate enough for everyone on this forum apart from David, who once again threw down a gauntlet in an attempt to provoke grime reaper into another merry go round of i'm cleverer than you bollox.
What appears to be missing in recent months on the forum is a lack of understanding by some posters of the right of members to express their opinions here without being subjected to a fingernail pulling interrogation on those opinions.
Quote from: fred c on November 08, 2019, 07: PM
What appears to be missing in recent months on the forum is a lack of understanding by some posters of the right of members to express their opinions here without being subjected to a fingernail pulling interrogation on those opinions.
Especially if your views conflict with some of the more long standing members......
Quote from: akarjl2 on November 08, 2019, 07: PM
Quote from: fred c on November 08, 2019, 07: PM
What appears to be missing in recent months on the forum is a lack of understanding by some posters of the right of members to express their opinions here without being subjected to a fingernail pulling interrogation on those opinions.
Especially if your views conflict with some of the more long standing members......
What a load of bollocks.
I have never attempted to stop anyone posting here, never once.
Even though I had the power to do something about my attackersI never once abused that privilege.
So unlike the mob baying for me to be either removed or the board shut down. Nobody can be that dim they did not notice that so the ignorance is wilful.
The actual position is that those who support Shane can not accept that he did any wrong or that he should be criticised.
As for 'lack of understanding' well I am the one who was the first to 'understand' that the IU were not in any way Independent and were just a way to get all the old UKIP lot back in by the back door. I knew that once they were in they would become members of the latest Farage Cult and I have the posts that prove it. I saw through the deception and there are those who either have not realised they were tricked or do not care because that is their politics and they crave 'power' so much they abandon all principles.
Its a shame to see posters who laid into Labour in the most personal of terms for over a decade suddenly become guardians of decency once their man is attacked.
https://youtu.be/-crgQGdpZR0?t=1
Quote from: fred c on November 08, 2019, 07: PM
grim reapers replies were articulate enough for everyone on this forum apart from David.
Sorry got that wrong.
There seems to be a default board position that assumes anyone who does not agree is a minority and thus has to shut the fcuk up.
I would like my name taken off that nodding donkey list.
This is tiresome isn't it?
As I've explained, simply saying 'it's my choice' isn't a reason. It's nowhere near a reason. A choice is an option between two or more possibilities. A REASON can explain why you made that particular choice.
Again, no one has offered a reason other than a vague implication that we'll free ourselves from EU laws. Which when challenged about which specific laws . . . Silence.
No one is trying to trick anyone, or show themselves to be superior to anyone or to be condescending. I'm certainly not anyway.
17.6 million people have voted in such a way which may negatively impact significantly on my future and the future of my children.
I don't think it's unreasonable to ask WHY you felt it best to do that.
The top and bottom of it is you never agree with any one but David, you launch into anyone who disagrees with anything you say.....it isn't a matter of shut the fcuk up, it's a matter of you allowing users to express an opinion without attempting to denigrate anything they say.
Express an opinion then Fred?!?! That's what be I've been on about all along. People on here are advocating Brexit but with saying WHY.
Ok your OPINION, or in anyone's opinion, WHY is it better to leave the EU?
I'm not ramming my opinion down people's throats. I'm openly, politely asking them for THEIRS.
Quote from: DRiddle on November 08, 2019, 08: PM
This is tiresome isn't it?
As I've explained, simply saying 'it's my choice' isn't a reason. It's nowhere near a reason. A choice is an option between two or more possibilities. A REASON can explain why you made that particular choice.
Again, no one has offered a reason other than a vague implication that we'll free ourselves from EU laws. Which when challenged about which specific laws . . . Silence.
No one is trying to trick anyone, or show themselves to be superior to anyone or to be condescending. I'm certainly not anyway.
17.6 million people have voted in such a way which may negatively impact significantly on my future and the future of my children.
I don't think it's unreasonable to ask WHY you felt it best to do that.
David, it's patently obvious that no one want's to engage with you on this "Tiresome" subject, so why persist with it just accept that fact and respect the right of users to make that choice.
Btw I don't / won't accept any responsibility whatsoever for any negative impact on you or you children by my voting to leave and neither should anyone else who voted leave and no I won't be bothering my ar** explaining why.
And you wonder why the forum is dying. . .
Quote from: fred c on November 08, 2019, 08: PM
.it isn't a matter of shut the fcuk up, it's a matter of you allowing users to express an opinion without attempting to denigrate anything they say.
My case in a nutshell is that Shane engaged in a planned deception to get elected. That he never was at any time an independent and that he would rejoin The Farage Cult as soon as he believed he could get away with it. I present the evidence for this and no one has challenged it. All I get is insult, whataboutism requests for my banning and replies full of personal insults saying that I use to many personal insults!
I am not bothered with no one engaging because it gives me a free ride and an easier target. The reason no one defends shane is not because they don't want too but that the evidence for the duplicity is so overwhelming their is no rational defence.
Quote from: DRiddle on November 08, 2019, 08: PM
Express an opinion then Fred?!?! That's what be I've been on about all along. People on here are advocating Brexit but with saying WHY.
If you can't begin to empathise as to why anyone would want to leave, how can you hope to understand the answer...?
Ok your OPINION, or in anyone's opinion, WHY is it better to leave the EU?
You won't get an answer because the train has left,
I'm not ramming my opinion down people's throats. I'm openly, politely asking them for THEIRS.
You're asking the same question again and again but failing to grasp the point that a person who has to ask their 'opponents' why obviously shouldn't be in the game.
Quote from: mk1 on November 08, 2019, 09: PM
Quote from: fred c on November 08, 2019, 08: PM
.it isn't a matter of shut the fcuk up, it's a matter of you allowing users to express an opinion without attempting to denigrate anything they say.
My case in a nutshell is that Shane engaged in a planned deception to get elected.
Is that illegal ?
That he never was at any time an independent and that he would rejoin The Farage Cult as soon as he believed he could get away with it.
How do you know?
I present the evidence for this and no one has challenged it. All I get is insult, whataboutism requests for my banning and replies full of personal insults saying that I use to many personal insults!
Tell us how then.
I am not bothered with no one engaging because it gives me a free ride and an easier target. The reason no one defends shane is not because they don't want too but that the evidence for the duplicity is so overwhelming their is no rational defence.
Quote from: mk1 on November 08, 2019, 09: PM
I am not bothered with no one engaging because it gives me a free ride and an easier target.
If no one is engaging you it may be simply because you won't get a free ride and your imagined targets just ain't bothered by your broadsides anymore.
The reason no one defends shane is not because they don't want too but that the evidence for the duplicity is so overwhelming their is no rational defence.
There's only you worrying about it.
Quote from: Inspector Knacker on November 08, 2019, 09: PM
Is that illegal ?
Ask Bobby Fuller. He knows all about the law
https://youtu.be/OgtQj8O92eI?t=8
Quote from: Inspector Knacker on November 08, 2019, 09: PM
How do you know?
I asked your mother
https://youtu.be/9zIEN60IYDo?t=16
Quote from: Inspector Knacker on November 08, 2019, 09: PM
Tell us.......?
Tell him, tell him, tell him right now...
https://youtu.be/ah-tui1ubnU?t=68
The answer I expected. Thanks.
I've been thinking about this all evening, and the reason I voted leave is because I'm against centralised government in general, and I'm certainly against globalisation, and being part of the EU is absolutely a major step towards globalisation in my opinion.
I would personally like to see a complete overhaul of the current political system so that aspects of my life are not dictated by some ponce in London, or some Eurocrat in Brussels.
I'm all for local governance, however not as it currently exists. It should not be a financially rewarding position, and it should only be open to local people who have the support of the general local populace.
Idealism maybe, but that's why I want out of Europe, and I'm rather annoyed that the bureaucrats are doing everything in their power to prevent the will of the people being expedited.
'Democracy' is broken.
Quote from: Inspector Knacker on November 08, 2019, 09: PM
you won't get a free ride.............
on your see-saw?
https://youtu.be/mIavaAdzNK0?t=9
Quote from: Inspector Knacker on November 08, 2019, 09: PM
There's only you .....
https://youtu.be/w67Uspp_PsQ?t=28
Quote from: diSme on November 08, 2019, 10: PM
I'm against centralised government in general, and I'm certainly against globalisation, and being part of the EU is absolutely a major step towards globalisation in my opinion.
What about the argument that the EU is a third 'superpower' able to interact on equal terms with Both the USA and China. Any weakening of The EU only plays into the hands of the other two. You might not like superpowers but having 3 is much better than 2 or god forbid, just 1.
Quote from: diSme on November 08, 2019, 10: PM
Idealism maybe, but that's why I want out of Europe, and I'm rather annoyed that the bureaucrats are doing everything in their power to prevent the will of the people being expedited.
'Democracy' is broken.
If JRM and the other fruitcakes had voted for May's Bill then we would be out now. Do you blame these people for denying the 'will of the people'.
Quote from: diSme on November 08, 2019, 10: PM
I've been thinking about this all evening, and the reason I voted leave is because I'm against centralised government in general, and I'm certainly against globalisation, and being part of the EU is absolutely a major step towards globalisation in my opinion.
I would personally like to see a complete overhaul of the current political system so that aspects of my life are not dictated by some ponce in London, or some Eurocrat in Brussels.
I'm all for local governance, however not as it currently exists. It should not be a financially rewarding position, and it should only be open to local people who have the support of the general local populace.
Idealism maybe, but that's why I want out of Europe, and I'm rather annoyed that the bureaucrats are doing everything in their power to prevent the will of the people being expedited.
'Democracy' is broken.
just about summons up the thoughts of many. Unfortunately I do not think it will happen. Many tried and failed...time to move on?
Quote from: DRiddle on November 08, 2019, 09: PM
And you wonder why the forum is dying. . .
Seems fairly alive at the moment?
Quote from: akarjl2 on November 09, 2019, 06: AM
just about summons up the thoughts of many. Unfortunately I do not think it will happen. Many tried and failed...time to move on?
NO. it is not time to move on, we've had political trench warfare where every trick in the book has been brazenly used to stop leaving leaving the EU without even blushing.
Finish what you started, they wanted to grind you down, you've come this far.
The scurrilous antics of the politicians and their lackeys changed my opinion on Brexit 180 degrees when they showed themselves up for what they are.
You want to leave the EU because you're "against globalisation" ?
Do you have an alternative to globalisation which you think can work economically, socially, politically and culturally in a world which is mainly already globalised?
Genuine question.
If you're against something there must be reasons. It also makes sense that there's an alternative you'd like to see. What's your preferred alternative?
QuoteI'm all for local governance, however not as it currently exists. It should not be a financially rewarding position, and it should only be open to local people who have the support of the general local populace.
You've literally just described the current system of local governance. ::)
Quote from: akarjl2 on November 09, 2019, 06: AM
Unfortunately I do not think it will happen. Many tried and failed...time to move on?
Tu sais, j'aurais des cauchemars Et aussi mauvaise conscience, Si je t'empêchais de faire Ce que vraiment tu espères..........
Mais si tu dois partir, va-t'en, Mais si tu dois partir, va-t'en Si non, tu dois rester la nuit.
https://youtu.be/AmmCSOpPzZc?t=21
Quote from: DRiddle on November 09, 2019, 07: AM
QuoteI'm all for local governance, however not as it currently exists. It should not be a financially rewarding position, and it should only be open to local people who have the support of the general local populace.
You've literally just described the current system of local governance. ::)
Er no he described how it should be....the like of Shane who jumped ship to further his own political career probably nolonger have the "support of the general local populace".
Oh how smart someone can use google translate.........=
Nous vous haïssons toujours, mais pendant que vous nous permettez de vous saigner à blanc, nous vous tolérerons.
Quote from: akarjl2 on November 09, 2019, 08: AM
Oh how smart someone can use google translate.........=
Having lived through the period and being familiar with the Dylan original and the Manfred Man version I had no need to use Goggle translate.
https://youtu.be/s1Tl2cVeCbY?t=26
I am (was?) hoping you give me an opening to introduce Raymond Froggit and 'Callow La Vita'. You might be more familiar with the Dave Clark 5 version.
Personally I prefer the Marie Laforet effort. Always had a soft spot for anemic brunettes!
https://youtu.be/3BD1fSVJM4Q?t=55
Marianne Faithful singing in in French is just divine
https://youtu.be/4SB8rwJlNM4?t=147
I think Elvis ruined the song with his version.
Local governance isn't perfect, I'm amongst the most vocal in stating that.
However, break down the components of 'how it should be' as was described.
"I'm all for local governance, however not as it currently exists. It should not be a financially rewarding position - it isn't, not if you're of the level- and it should only be open to local people- it is only open to local people who live (or at lease say they live) there - who have the support of the general local populace - like by proving they have that support by some kind of vote? ???
Honest to god, I'm not sure there's ever been such a nadir moment for this forum and what's happening on this thread.
Quote from: mk1 on November 09, 2019, 07: AM
Quote from: akarjl2 on November 09, 2019, 06: AM
Unfortunately I do not think it will happen. Many tried and failed...time to move on?
Tu sais, j'aurais des cauchemars Et aussi mauvaise conscience, Si je t'empêchais de faire Ce que vraiment tu espères..........
Mais si tu dois partir, va-t'en, Mais si tu dois partir, va-t'en Si non, tu dois rester la nuit.
https://youtu.be/AmmCSOpPzZc?t=21
I get a pension off the French......but never get the urge to break into using the language on a board in Hartlepool. Sorry, but just what are you trying to prove ....or are you Del Boy?
Quote from: DRiddle on November 09, 2019, 09: AM
Honest to god, I'm not sure there's ever been such a nadir moment for this forum and what's happening on this thread.
I wouldn't despair there are many here who
Voted FOR Brexit - for their own reasons and see no reason to comply with demands to justify their vote....
Voted AGAINST Brexit and certainly in Hartlepool found themselves in the minority something they seem unable to accept
Support Labour - always have always will
Do not support Labour but see no viable alternative after Shanes antics
Nothing has changed since the Referendum - parliament has made Britain look like the village idiots of Europe and is obviously hell bent on us remaining.....
My vote is going in the bin- they are all full of S*it and not worth of the effort of actually walk to a polling station- can't wait for the liars to start canvassing and knocking on my door.....then again over the last five years at Seaton nobody ever has from any of the political parties.
Quote from: DRiddle on November 09, 2019, 09: AM
Honest to god, I'm not sure there's ever been such a nadir moment for this forum and what's happening on this thread.
Really? You're disappointed the forum is not your stage and as for nadir moment, that's only in your world of politics, for others it's refreshing. It's not all about you.
Go on I'll have one last try.
Is anyone willing or able to offer an ACTUAL reason for voting to leave the EU?
So far we've had "It was my choice" (which isn't a reason), "I'm not telling you" (which isn't a reason), the classic "To free us from EU laws" (followed by a seeming inability to clarify any EU law they're currently upset by) and finally, the very vague "I'm against globalisation".
Good luck with the international free trade negotiations and world trade organisation default position if we do leave by the way. Given you're against globalisation . . . ::)
Quote from: DRiddle on November 09, 2019, 03: PM
Go on I'll have one last try.
Thank Tommy Tuck......
I'll give you 11 out of 10 for perseverance David but it's taken you an inordinate amount of time to realise you have been flogging a dead horse and unless you reconsider the way you constantly put people down when posting, I suspect you won't get much engagement from post users in the future.
Quote from: DRiddle on November 09, 2019, 03: PM
Go on I'll have one last try.
Is anyone willing or able to offer an ACTUAL reason for voting to leave the EU?
So far we've had "It was my choice" (which isn't a reason), "I'm not telling you" (which isn't a reason), the classic "To free us from EU laws" (followed by a seeming inability to clarify any EU law they're currently upset by) and finally, the very vague "I'm against globalisation".
Good luck with the international free trade negotiations and world trade organisation default position if we do leave by the way. Given you're against globalisation . . . ::)
You're getting less attention than a 105 year stripper, at least you could talk about the Great War with them or the General Strike in 1926.
Quote from: DRiddle on November 09, 2019, 03: PM
Is anyone willing or able to offer an ACTUAL reason for voting to leave the EU?
No.
Get over it......
You don't know why you did it do you? You ARE the stereotypical Brexit voter who didn't know what they were voting for.
That's agree then, fair enough.
Quote from: DRiddle on November 09, 2019, 03: PM
Go on I'll have one last try.
FFS So this wasn't your "1 Last Try"
Typical of a remainer......
1 Last Try at Another Referendum
In my experience when a brexit voter WON'T give their reasons for voting to leave, the reason almost always centres around immigration.
Quote from: DRiddle on November 10, 2019, 04: AM
In my experience when a brexit voter WON'T give their reasons for voting to leave, the reason almost always centres around immigration.
I think you are digging a hole for your self here.....you demand and explanation ( despite having no right to do so).
When one is not forthcoming you assume one. ....What a surprise , usually a combination of immigration/racism/bog eyed/looney/liar/deluded/stupid. Is it any surprise that many refuse to be drawn in to providing more opportunities for abuse to be thrown?
I have seen mention here off wanting to know why people may have voted for Brexit because it affects children and future generations...
Perhaps the question should be how do we explain the demise of what used to be known as democracy to kids when a majority voted one way elected representatives in both parliament and local clowncil think otherwise because they believe they know better and constantly prevent the wishes of the majority taking place....and the minority demand an explanation from the majority despite ignoring their wishes.
As many have commented recently, nationally and locally, democracy is finished .
I agree with you in so far democracy as should be respected and the referendum result should be delivered.
However, that's a separate issue to my question.
Was immigration a factor for you then?
Quote from: DRiddle on November 10, 2019, 07: AM
I agree with you in so far democracy as should be respected and the referendum result should be delivered.
However, that's a separate issue to my question.
Was immigration a factor for you then?
Let's turn that around was immigration a factor for
you then?
......The record is stuck ...the record is stuck...the record is stuck....The record is stuck ...the record is stuck...the record is stuck....The record is stuck ...the record is stuck...the record is stuck....
Quote from: DRiddle on November 10, 2019, 04: AM
In my experience when a brexit voter WON'T give their reasons for voting to leave, the reason almost always centres around immigration.
In my experience when people keep asking a question no one will answer they stick in a bit of 'bait' in and hope for bite.
It's called desperation.
Quote from: DRiddle on November 10, 2019, 07: AM
I agree with you in so far democracy as should be respected and the referendum result should be delivered.
However, that's a separate issue to my question.
Was immigration a factor for you then?
Can't get attention despite multiple attempts and so it descends to the this...after blithely brushing away the democratic vote. Don't bite.
Quote from: DRiddle on November 10, 2019, 04: AM
In my experience when a brexit voter WON'T give their reasons for voting to leave, the reason almost always centres around immigration.
David, you are a smart bloke but you really need to consider where you are going with this, your comment implies that everyone on The Post who does not want to engage with your troll like activity on Brexit is anti immigration or to call a spade a shovel, racist.
What next? are Brexit voters homophobes, transgender-phobes, vegan-phobes, yep they are ridiculous excuses, but they are no more ridiculous than your implied
"the reason almost always centres around immigration" comment.
You know how this goes chaps. Eventually one of you frothing at the mouth blurts out that YES immigration was a factor in how you voted.
I then say "Ok so which countries do you have a problem with people coming to this country from?"
You then say "Anywhere".
I asked you to be more specific.
Eventually you admit that a key reason was you're unhappy with the number of people here from the Indian Subcontint and well as 'Iraq, Afghanistan and places like that".
Of course, I then point out that the UK already has control of immigration laws relating to people from those countries.
I remind you we literally invited, financially incentivised, begged people to come here from those countries long before the EU was even formed.
The you say "Aaahhh but what about the Polish!?!?"
That's how this plays out isn't it?
DRiddle, sounds like a variation of the well known classroom trick to find a guilty party,just throw out any random name and then everyone is supposed to turn round and look at the real guilty one.It won't work here Dave the class worked that one out years ago.
I don't think Mr Riddle is here to debate, just fish for a scrap to feed on, but the fish ain't biting. He changes the bait but still they ignore him. If, he ever gets a bite, he'll hold the baby stickleback above his head in triumph and cry success. Sad really.
I suspect if the rod and line fail he'll resort to industrial trawling, but we've already got one on here and trawls up everything except the fish. >:(
You don't want your masks to slip to reveal your real thoughts, that's fine.
Quote from: Inspector Knacker on November 10, 2019, 10: AM
we've already got one on here and trawls up everything except the fish. >:(
Wonder who that is? Someone who claims not to even live in the town?
It seems a few here like to fixate on specifics of issues that have caught their attention....rather than focusing on a way ahead for the town. A touch of the "I always vote labour cos me dad did" approach to life?
Removes the need to consider other options, well the few that are available....no wonder the the town is disintegrating.
David, we have worked together quite a lot in the past and, I hope, we will again in the future. I do, however, disagree with many of your latest posts so I will try and answer your six points.
1 I think nearly every prospective Cllr I've seen (since 2007/08) has made this promise and, I suspect, that at that time believed it to be true. After being elected it soon becomes obvious that that promise is likely to become unachievable. I believe you said something similar before you were elected. An unavoidable fact is that CT has to go up to fund the statutory requirements of the Council. Children and Adult services take the bulk of HBC's budget. If CT didn't rise the services to the vulnerable would likely have to be scaled back. The demand for these services is growing not shrinking.
2 I understand that you were a Labour supporter who became independent who then was instrumental in forming PHF which is now PSF. Circumstances change, change with them. Your friends Mr and Mrs Brash became Independent Labour and, it seems, Mr Brash has rejoined the party and is standing next year in the Burn Valley Ward.
3 I can't answer the first part of this point but I seem to remember similar comments were made against Drummond by the Labour Party. On the second part you know as well as I that, in theory at least, this is not in any one person's power to grant as it is decided by the votes of ALL Cllrs. However, the last Labour administration showed that the Leader with a majority could impose a three-line whip, effectively deciding on who should chair committees. Hence, Labour and Conservatives chaired all the committees. Current Labour created Christopher's position by forbidding co-operation with the majority group (Brash?). Thomas and Harrison were offered to keep their chairs as they had proved their competency on their respective committees but were not allowed to accept. The Black intervention was an obvious trap (BRASH?). From a bunch of novices, it is surely preferable to have an experienced chair. Many things can be said against Christopher but his chairmanship and knowledge of his briefing was second to none. Whatever is decided in Regen is overseen by Finance and Policy and Audit and Governance, previously chaired by the TorLab group. Now we have Chairs from all parties except Labour who will not co-operate with their opposition.
4 Desire is a wish and circumstances change. I have no problem with that.
5 I don't remember Shane swearing he was not going to join the Brexit Party. Circumstances change, change with them. Changing parties is not exactly unheard of in the political world and it is particularly prevalent in the national parties at this time. I don't remember you asking similar questions about Mr & Mrs Brash and Ged Hall when they crossed the floor or even now with the creation of the SLP, all elected under the Labour banner.
6 I presume you are referring to Mike McLaughlin and John Tennant. The two cases are entirely different. McLaughlin was sold by the Labour Party as a person who lived and worked locally. Tennant made no secret of his wanting to be an MEP and is doing what many politicians do by having two or more positions. You, yourself, had a day job when you were a Cllr as did Hunter, Jackson, Thomas, Brash, Thompson and Black to name a few. As long as he and they can satisfy his/her/their Hartlepool responsibilities, I have no problem with that.
I hope that the above answers your points and show that not all of us have your crystal clear vision. I wear specs - perhaps they need cleaning.
I think most fair minded people are not blinkered but are reserving judgement and giving the new administration time to bed in and prove their worth or otherwise.
Might I suggest that it is you and mk1 who are blinkered.
I agree that no political person or group are above criticism but criticism for criticising sake is not very edifying.
From your posts it appears that you have gone back to your Labour roots and are canvassing for the Labour Party in the coming elections nationally and locally.
As you know, I stood as a Conservative candidate for some years so I had to join the party (the first and only time in my life I was a member of a political party) under their rules. I left because I could not agree with the leadership. I have not joined a political party since. I am apolitical and will work for any Cllr or prospective Cllr I consider to be worthy of my vote. I will criticise or favour any decision according to my own thoughts and experiences e.g. I did not agree with the Independents joining the Brexit Party.
I have toyed with thinking of standing for a political party but there isn't one I find attractive enough. I also consider myself to be too old. Experience, what used to be called wisdom, is no longer recognised.
Quote from: RayPocklington on November 10, 2019, 11: AM
I don't remember Shane swearing he was not going to join the Brexit Party. Circumstances change, change with them. Changing parties is not exactly unheard of in the political world and it is particularly prevalent in the national parties at this time.
This is the reply Shane gave on July 27th 2019 when asked directly if he was going to join the Brexit Party.
Quote from: SRMoore on July 27, 2019, 04: PM
I myself have no link to the Brexit Party other than that I am a supporter of the UK leaving the EU and not ashamed to say so. I am not a member, supporter or activist. I am an independent councillor and that is how it was remain going forward.
Oh and no, I have absolutely no interests in getting involved with national politics. I've a wife, young family and a dog right here in Hartlepool. I'm small town boy who couldn't think of anything worse than living and working in London. No thank you.
I never believed he was an Independent and have said this on the forum many times. His plan was to get elected and he would say or do anything to achieve that end. He lied.
Quote from: RayPocklington on November 10, 2019, 11: AM
QuoteMany things can be said against Christopher
An understatement
Quotenot all of us have your crystal clear vision. I wear specs - perhaps they need cleaning.
Sarcasm said to be the lowest form of wit but also the most effective
QuoteMight I suggest that it is you and mk1 who are blinkered.
Hope the forum has the bandwidth to cope with the responses to that statement :)
QuoteI have toyed with thinking of standing for a political party but there isn't one I find attractive enough. I also consider myself to be too old. Experience, what used to be called wisdom, is no longer recognised.
Comment of the year IMHO...Few grenades ( aka pearls of wisdom) here.....
incoming.......
Quote from: RayPocklington on November 10, 2019, 11: AM
I think nearly every prospective Cllr I've seen (since 2007/08) has made this promise and, I suspect, that at that time believed it to be true. After being elected it soon becomes obvious that that promise is likely to become unachievable.
Except that Shane made his promise after he was elected to the Council. All the time he was just a Councillor he campaigned and opined for lower CT. It was only when he assumed the mantle of 'Leader' (another position he claimed he did not want) that he stopped being in favour of lower CT. Another example of him telling the electorate what they want to hear and then simply ditching it when in a position to do something about it. I agree that tax of all type is always going to rise so why do politicians always lie and claim they will lower it?
Please note the complaint is about people who
know they can not deliver on their election promises and blatantly deny that which was always their intent. Liars who wilfully deceive because the crave power. 'Political Prostitutes' as they say.
Quote from: DRiddle on November 10, 2019, 08: AM
You know how this goes chaps. Eventually one of you frothing at the mouth blurts out that YES immigration was a factor in how you voted.
I then say "Ok so which countries do you have a problem with people coming to this country from?"
You then say "Anywhere".
I asked you to be more specific.
Eventually you admit that a key reason was you're unhappy with the number of people here from the Indian Subcontint and well as 'Iraq, Afghanistan and places like that".
Of course, I then point out that the UK already has control of immigration laws relating to people from those countries.
I remind you we literally invited, financially incentivised, begged people to come here from those countries long before the EU was even formed.
The you say "Aaahhh but what about the Polish!?!?"
That's how this plays out isn't it?
David, You really should consider what you are posting, I don't for one moment think you will witness any "Frothing at the mouth" from members of the forum, in fact I know you won't......You can be as provocative as you like but members have had enough of it and now regard it as nothing more absolute clikbait
Another quote by D Riddle
"You don't want your masks to slip to reveal your real thoughts, that's fine"
This particular offering...... Who are theses "your masks" members ?
Your continued accusations / implications / assumptions are not only grossly unwarranted but to be perfectly honest...... Totally Offensive.
Quote from: fred c on November 10, 2019, 01: PM
Quote from: DRiddle on November 10, 2019, 08: AM
You know how this goes chaps. Eventually one of you frothing at the mouth blurts out that YES immigration was a factor in how you voted.
I then say "Ok so which countries do you have a problem with people coming to this country from?"
You then say "Anywhere".
I asked you to be more specific.
Eventually you admit that a key reason was you're unhappy with the number of people here from the Indian Subcontint and well as 'Iraq, Afghanistan and places like that".
Of course, I then point out that the UK already has control of immigration laws relating to people from those countries.
I remind you we literally invited, financially incentivised, begged people to come here from those countries long before the EU was even formed.
The you say "Aaahhh but what about the Polish!?!?"
That's how this plays out isn't it?
David, You really should consider what you are posting, I don't for one moment think you will witness any "Frothing at the mouth" from members of the forum, in fact I know you won't......You can be as provocative as you like but members have had enough of it and now regard it as nothing more absolute clikbait
Another quote by D Riddle
"You don't want your masks to slip to reveal your real thoughts, that's fine"
This particular offering...... Who are theses "your masks" members ?
Your continued accusations / implications / assumptions are not only grossly unwarranted but to be perfectly honest...... Totally Offensive.
I agree. Totally offensive.
My opinion of Mr Riddle is steadily changing....
Quote from: diSme on November 10, 2019, 01: PM
I agree. Totally offensive.
Like the car-crash Question Time from Hartlepool?
We even had one of the morons in the audience 'offering someone out' live on National Television!
The alarming incident was condemned by viewers, who branded the Hartlepool audience the 'most witless, mindlessly opinionated self destructive Question Time audience in history'.https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3858722/Polish-woman-BOOED-Question-Time-audience-saying-no-longer-feels-welcome-UK-Brexit-vote.html
Opinion was universally negative.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/723610/Question-Time-audience-Brexit-European-Union-Ken-Clarke-remoaner-MP-Gary-Young-clear-off
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/polish-woman-booed-bbc-question-time-brexit-a7372956.html
http://www.standard.co.uk/stayingin/tvfilm/polish-woman-booed-on-question-time-for-saying-she-feels-unwelcome-after-brexit-a3375901.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/polish-woman-bbc-question-time-brexit_uk_58094d0ee4b0f479c0d6135a
Quote from: mk1 on November 10, 2019, 02: PM
Quote from: diSme on November 10, 2019, 01: PM
I agree. Totally offensive.
Like the car-crash Question Time from Hartlepool?
We even had one of the morons in the audience 'offering someone out' live on National Television!
1. 3 years ago...but predictable, consistent and irrelevant .....the comments on the Daily Mail article are very revealing.....
2. Incessant demands from Mr Riddle for " an explanation" will continue to fall on deaf ears = nobody has to justify their views to him or anyone else.
3. The reality is the majority who voted one way here in Hartlepool as in many other areas will be ignored by a minority who voted the other way, in many cases ignoring the will of the electorate who voted for them, democracy at its finest.
We have probably wasted the last three year making ourself look really dumb around the world as it is looking increasingly unlikely Brexit will actually happen. The "Morons" in parliament know better....
Cue a link to a video from the 70's + bong eyed loonies rant.......... :o :o :o :o :o :o
I'd hardly call them incessant demands. All I've actually done is ask WHY people voted to leave the EU. If you're so sure it's a good decision then there must be reasons why you think that.
Quote from: akarjl2 on November 10, 2019, 03: PM
We have probably wasted the last three year making ourself look really dumb around the world as it is looking increasingly unlikely Brexit will actually happen. The "Morons" in parliament know better....
The reason you have not had Brexit is that the bong-eyed loony Hard Brexit nutcases voted against all the deals. If JRG and mob had not voted against his own Party you would have had your dream There was nothing Labour could have done to stop it. But I am guessing you don't see it that way and will continue to blame everyone else for your own side's failure.
You delude yourself that you are part of some overwhelming majority who have the divine right to impose your every whim on your opponents. UKIP were wiped out in the last GE and UKIP Part Deux are polling around half of the of the Lib Dem numbers.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/921/gZO0Zs.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/plgZO0Zsj)
Quote from: DRiddle on November 10, 2019, 04: PM
I'd hardly call them incessant demands. All I've actually done is ask WHY people voted to leave the EU. If you're so sure it's a good decision then there must be reasons why you think that.
No mate, you've basically called every leave voter a racist....
Not cool
Quote from: akarjl2 on November 10, 2019, 03: PM
Cue a link to a video from the 70's.
2010 do?
This US woman destroyed her Political career with this add
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxJyPsmEask
the
moral
is
why
spend
all
your
time
denying
something
if there
isn't
any
truth
behind
it.
Quote from: DRiddle on November 10, 2019, 04: PM
I'd hardly call them incessant demands. All I've actually done is ask WHY people voted to leave the EU. If you're so sure it's a good decision then there must be reasons why you think that.
Users of The Post know exactly ( you tend to get the gist after 15 or so asks) what you have done, and here you are asking again in this post.
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results"
Attributed to A Einstein
Quote from: mk1 on November 10, 2019, 04: PM
Quote from: akarjl2 on November 10, 2019, 03: PM
We have probably wasted the last three year making ourself look really dumb around the world as it is looking increasingly unlikely Brexit will actually happen. The "Morons" in parliament know better....
The reason you have not had Brexit is that the bong-eyed loony Hard Brexit
Consistent.... :o :o :o :o :o
Quote from: RayPocklington on November 10, 2019, 11: AM
From your posts it appears that you have gone back to your Labour roots and are canvassing for the Labour Party in the coming elections nationally and locally.
Is it true David? Is this the 'Jag' you were talking about?
Quote from: fred c on November 10, 2019, 04: PM
Quote from: DRiddle on November 10, 2019, 04: PM
I'd hardly call them incessant demands. All I've actually done is ask WHY people voted to leave the EU. If you're so sure it's a good decision then there must be reasons why you think that.
Users of The Post know exactly ( you tend to get the gist after 15 or so asks) what you have done, and here you are asking again in this post.
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results"
Attributed to A Einstein
It's just jibber jabber and white noise, like interference on a TV, stops your enjoyment till it's sorted. Which will probably be the day after the election result.
I didn't say all Brexit voters are racist. All racists are Brexit voters though, but that's another argument.
What I said was, in my experience anyone who refuses to offer their reasons for voting to leave either doesn't have anything other than trotting out the lies told by vote leave, OR eventually they admit their decision was to do with immigration.
Happy to be proven wrong of course, but that would require your reason(s).
P.S I have no labour roots to return to. I've only ever been a member of one political party. PHF.
Quote from: DRiddle on November 10, 2019, 05: PM
What I said was, in my experience anyone who refuses to offer their reasons for voting to leave either doesn't have anything other than trotting out the lies told by vote leave, OR eventually they admit their decision was to do with immigration.
Stick to the day job...
Quote from: DRiddle on November 10, 2019, 05: PM
I didn't say all Brexit voters are racist. All racists are Brexit voters though, but that's another argument.
What I said was, in my experience anyone who refuses to offer their reasons for voting to leave either doesn't have anything other than trotting out the lies told by vote leave, OR eventually they admit their decision was to do with immigration.
Happy to be proven wrong of course, but that would require your reason(s).
P.S I have no labour roots to return to. I've only ever been a member of one political party. PHF.
I offered up my reasoning, and all you attempted to do was deconstruct them and create an unnecessary argument.
It seems like you're just itching for a fight over the issue.
You haven't offered any reasons.
Quote from: DRiddle on November 10, 2019, 08: PM
You haven't offered any reasons.
He doesn't have to. Are you the Inquisition? Out to reveal the heresy of any sinner willing to commit the ultimate act of not remaining in the EU.
Well you have if you count 'taking back control of our laws' as a 'reason', even though you can't name an EU law you disagree with.
That and your other 'reason' which was 'you're against globalisation'. Which presumably you hope to combat with World Trade Organisation rules rather than EU ones.
Crazy times.
I'll try and break this to you gently, you.are not a class of kids who have to answer your questions, because you appear to be labouring under the gross misapprehension you're dealing with the remedial class.
Mr Chips you ain't.
Quote from: DRiddle on November 10, 2019, 09: PM
Quoteeven though you can't name an EU law you disagree with.
Actually I am against anyone other than the UK government inflicting their "laws" on us
I suspect you are too young to remember the original purpose of
the common marketThe clue is in italics......
Cue
.....accusations of being racist
.......bong eyed looney
.........rabid brexiteer
...........numerous results of YouTube trawls for something vaguely connected with current events....even if it from the other side of the world.......
Is it any wonder most of here ignore your demands to justify our political opinions?
Which law in particular do you feel has been imposed on us by someone other than our own government?
Wasting your breath......take a lesson from MK1
Google
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-15-eu-laws-we-will-miss-in-britain-a7103031.html
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36473105
Quote from: DRiddle on November 09, 2019, 09: PM
You don't know why you did it do you? You ARE the stereotypical Brexit voter who didn't know what they were voting for.
That's agree then, fair enough.
Oh look you caused him to prematurely punchline.
Quote from: DRiddle on November 09, 2019, 09: PM
You don't know why you did it do you? You ARE the stereotypical Brexit voter who didn't know what they were voting for.
That's agree then, fair enough.
Thank you Psychic Meg.... ;)
Quote from: akarjl2 on November 11, 2019, 02: PM
Quote from: DRiddle on November 09, 2019, 09: PM
You don't know why you did it do you? You ARE the stereotypical Brexit voter who didn't know what they were voting for.
That's agree then, fair enough.
The most arrogant post I've seen for a while anywhere. I bet you can strut sitting down.gh
Quote from: akarjl2 on November 11, 2019, 12: PM
Wasting your breath......take a lesson from MK1
I agree.
Lesson 1.
Many areas will not be effected by EU law but some important areas are.
For example
"The impact of EU law varies from sector to sector. In many areas - public order, crime, defence, health - EU laws have minimal impact. But in others - workers' rights, trade - the impact is much greater because the single market and the free movement of workers are at the heart of what the EU is about. The way we organise our NHS is notIllustrates an area where banging on about the populist bits (immigration) allows those with darker motives (to drastically curb Workers Rights) in through the back door. The turkeys look forward to their promised Boxing Day presents without realising what will happen to them on Christmas Day.
Not that any of those consumed by Brexit give a toss about anything except getting their way. It was reported that neither side gives a toss what happens to the UK and they all will happily ditch NI (and Scotland) if they can impose their will on the other side.
https://metro.co.uk/2019/11/11/leavers-remainers-finally-agree-something-ditching-northern-ireland-11077594/
Quote from: mk1 on November 11, 2019, 06: PM
they all will happily ditch NI (and Scotland)
It would get my vote the DUP has held the British Parliament to ransom for years despite the "additional funding" provided to the region and Scotland are just an expensive drain on the rest of us.....free university places etc.....the Scots missed a golden opportunity in their referendum... if they were independent and set themselves up as a tax haven every company in the world would want to based there.....no guarantee they would be able to remain part of Eu though ;)
If we end up remaining in the socialist republic of Europe only a matter of time before England,Scotland,Wales and Norther Ireland ( or whatever that want to call themselves) end up as small satellite states on the edge of the European federation.
Quote from: akarjl2 on November 11, 2019, 06: PM
Scotland are just an expensive drain on the rest of us.....free university places etc....
This is a common error. Most people treat Scotland as a province of England but this is a monumental misreading of the actual situation.
Quote from: mk1 on November 11, 2019, 07: PM
Quote from: akarjl2 on November 11, 2019, 06: PM
Scotland are just an expensive drain on the rest of us.....free university places etc....
This is a common error. Most people treat Scotland as a province of England but this is a monumental misreading of the actual situation.
Incorrect https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-47989007
QuoteNew students from EU countries will still be entitled to free university tuition on courses which start in 2020, the Scottish government has confirmed.
The arrangements will cover EU students for the duration of courses which begin next year. A Scottish university degree normally takes four years to complete.
EU students are currently entitled to the same free university tuition as Scots under European law.
However, students from other parts of the UK are charged tuition fees.
My daughter went for an interview for a course at sterling circa 9k a year...if your are Scottish = free....from another European country other than other parts of Uk= free.....
Lunacy
Quote from: akarjl2 on November 11, 2019, 07: PM
Incorrect
I was commenting about the status of Scotland in the framework of the UK.
I can think of 25 billions barrels worth of reasons why you're talking rubbish Akarji2.
Quote from: DRiddle on November 11, 2019, 08: PM
I can think of 25 billions barrels worth of reasons why you're talking rubbish Akarji2.
Not for long.....
Just going back to this https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-15-eu-laws-we-will-miss-in-britain-a7103031.html (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-15-eu-laws-we-will-miss-in-britain-a7103031.html)
Which EU law being removed are you excited about? Is it the one which will allow you to buy an inefficient hoover?
Quote from: DRiddle on November 12, 2019, 06: AM
Just going back to this https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-15-eu-laws-we-will-miss-in-britain-a7103031.html (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-15-eu-laws-we-will-miss-in-britain-a7103031.html)
Which EU law being removed are you excited about? Is it the one which will allow you to buy an inefficient hoover?
obviously...yes.
And you'll save 10p on your tampons maybe. Worth it for getting rid of that pesky EU working time directive eh?
Quote from: DRiddle on November 12, 2019, 07: AM
And you'll save 10p on your tampons maybe. Worth it for getting rid of that pesky EU working time directive eh?
A control freak and now a sexist ? Double Bubble!
Quote from: DRiddle on November 11, 2019, 08: PM
I can think of 25 billions barrels worth of reasons why you're talking rubbish Akarji2.
Ah, Scotland with a population less than Yorkshire and desperate to prevent Brexit because if the rest of the Uk left and they joined the EU, they'd have a hard border to their biggest export customer.
Being run by a government of Nationalists is never a good thing, but their twisted chip on the shoulder variety only gets aroused by the English. If we didn't exist they'd have to invent us.
I had the uncomfortable experience of being in Scotland during the run up to the referendum and there was a strange atmosphere afoot in certain groups. Like all Nationalists they are driven and will go on and on till they get what they desire, so give them it and then they can go humbly to the EU and as Sturgeon boasts become an 'equal' amongst the other nations of Europe. I think she'll soon find that's window dressing and that the Big Boys do the deciding.
Still waiting to hear a worthwhile advantage for leaving the EU.
One that outweighs my child being able to study in other EU countries
on favourable terms and me being able to buy things without any
thought about customs and handling charges.
EU surgeon that saved my life working here without any hassle
Might just give up and go back to mainland Europe too.
Why would you have to go back?
You see just in these last few posts there are several legitimate REASONS to remain. Advantages, positives, benefits, call them what you will. The Brexit crew have so far offered up less efficient hoovers and your boss having the ability to FORCE you to work more hours than you want to.
Odd this obsessive repetition, like some Orwellian manta that if repeated often enough will cause the non believers to reform overnight..... Hallelujah!!
Do you need help...?
Quote from: DRiddle on November 12, 2019, 07: AM
You see just in these last few posts there are several legitimate REASONS to remain.
Actual your post and others illustrate why leaving will have benefits = you can all climb down off your soap boxes and get a life. Bit like the gob sh**e outside parliament screaming all day- what will he do when he has to rejoin the real world?
Yup, he'll end up going back to work but be working a 60+ hour week and be on less money due to the deductions for his private medical insurance.
Still, he'll be able to buy a $hit hoover, so it's swings and roundabouts eh?
Quote from: DRiddle on November 12, 2019, 08: AM
Yup, he'll end up going back to work but be working a 60+ hour week and be on less money due to the deductions for his private medical insurance.
Still, he'll be able to buy a $hit hoover, so it's swings and roundabouts eh?
Win/Win
Quote from: DRiddle on November 12, 2019, 07: AM
You see just in these last few posts there are several legitimate REASONS to remain. Advantages, positives, benefits, call them what you will. The Brexit crew have so far offered up less efficient hoovers and your boss having the ability to FORCE you to work more hours than you want to.
At last someone has given David "A Reason" does that mean the constant insults and badgering will now end.
Quote from: fred c on November 12, 2019, 09: AM
Quote from: DRiddle on November 12, 2019, 07: AM
You see just in these last few posts there are several legitimate REASONS to remain. Advantages, positives, benefits, call them what you will. The Brexit crew have so far offered up less efficient hoovers and your boss having the ability to FORCE you to work more hours than you want to.
QuoteAt last someone has given David "A Reason" does that mean the constant insults and badgering will now end.
I wouldn't hold your breath.....
Quote from: DRiddle on November 12, 2019, 08: AM
Yup, he'll end up going back to work but be working a 60+ hour week and be on less money due to the deductions for his private medical insurance.
Still, he'll be able to buy a $hit hoover, so it's swings and roundabouts eh?
The person in question has an antiques business in SouthWales so if he's working 60 hours it's for his own benefit.
But hey, don't miss any opportunity to keep repetitively banging the drum for Armageddon when if we leave with those masochistic scenarios you offer us again and again and again and again and again ad nauseum.
Quote from: Inspector Knacker on November 12, 2019, 07: AM
Being run by a government of Nationalists is never a good thing.............Like all Nationalists they are driven and will go on and on till they get what they desire,...,
I bet he never even noticed the hypocrisy.
Quote from: mk1 on November 12, 2019, 11: AM
Quote from: Inspector Knacker on November 12, 2019, 07: AM
Being run by a government of Nationalists is never a good thing.............Like all Nationalists they are driven and will go on and on till they get what they desire,...,
I bet he never even noticed the hypocrisy.
Who, David?
Do you think what you've given constitutes a 'valid reason' for all the upheaval?
Less efficient vacuum cleaners, slightly cheaper feminine hygiene products and control of laws which no one is able to actually be specific about?
If you want to trade your NHS (amongst other things) for a 1970 style hoover and 5p off your tampax then crack on.
Just don't expect the 48% to be happy about your logic.
Democracy 101
Loose a vote= you do not dictate policy.
Quote from: DRiddle on November 12, 2019, 07: PM
Do you think what you've given constitutes a 'valid reason' for all the upheaval?
Less efficient vacuum cleaners, slightly cheaper feminine hygiene products and control of laws which no one is able to actually be specific about?
If you want to trade your NHS (amongst other things) for a 1970 style hoover and 5p off your tampax then crack on.
Just don't expect the 48% to be happy about your logic.
What makes you think your logic is better than a leavers.
Just don't expect the 52% to be happy about your logic
Because Fred, I value the NHS more than I do the ability to buy an inferior quality hoover.
Democracy 102, a democratic decision isn't fixed and does NOT last forever. It's regularly revisited and reviewed.
If it's wasnt, we'd never even have gotten as far as the Magna Carta.
Quote from: akarjl2 on November 12, 2019, 08: PM
Democracy 101
Loose a vote= you do not dictate policy.
The reason we are not already out of the EU is the bong-eyed loony hard Brexiteers did not vote for it. They blocked your journey to Nirvana and access to the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.
https://youtu.be/8xix30obkow?t=63
Why is your opinion as a remainer any more valid than that of a leaver.....It is after all only an opinion.
Quote from: mk1 on November 12, 2019, 08: PM
Quote from: akarjl2 on November 12, 2019, 08: PM
Democracy 101
Loose a vote= you do not dictate policy.
The reason we are not already out of the EU is the bong-eyed loony hard Brexiteers did not vote for it. They blocked your journey to Nirvana and access to the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.
https://youtu.be/8xix30obkow?t=63
Obviously I could be wrong but I am guessing you voted remain.......
Their are plenty of bong eyed loony remainers around....you only have to stand outside parliament - the blue flag is a give away.....and we seem to have at least one amongst us here.
Incidentally you are not the only one who seems somewhat obsessed with the alignment of eyeballs.....
David Cameron a man who probably couldn't lie straight in bed....back in 2013
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2326743/Now-new-claims-suggest-CAMERON-used-swivel-eyed-loons-jibe-deride-Euro-rebels-Tory-chairman-denies-using-insult.html
I see it like this Fred (and others). Here are two opinions.
Opinion one - "I think the sun is made of gasses, mainly hydrogen and helium".
Opinion two - "I think the sun is made of potato based snacks, crisps, mainly Doritos and Pringles".
They're both 'just opinions' right? So by your logic I'm supposed to treat each one as 'equally valid'?
That makes no sense.
Quote from: DRiddle on November 12, 2019, 08: PM
Because Fred, I value the NHS more than I do the ability to buy an inferior quality hoover.
Forget the scare story/political slogans sing you may believe that alarmist twaddle.
Democracy 102, a democratic decision isn't fixed and does NOT last forever. It's regularly revisited and reviewed.
That logic is straight from the 1984 rule book. How you have the sheer audacity to think you can get away with a sentence like that without blushing, is embarrassing.
If it's wasnt, we'd never even have gotten as far as the Magna Carta.
Don't have the barefaced cheek to bring Magna Carta into. Your sides actions in the referendum were about blatantly denying democracy then spending three years holding democracy to hostage to maintain political serfdom.
Quote from: DRiddle on November 13, 2019, 07: AM
I see it like this Fred (and others). Here are two opinions.
Opinion one - "I think the sun is made of gasses, mainly hydrogen and helium".
Opinion two - "I think the sun is made of potato based snacks, crisps, mainly Doritos and Pringles".
They're both 'just opinions' right? So by your logic I'm supposed to treat each one as 'equally valid'?
That makes no sense.
If you think the sun is made of potato snacks, crisps, mainly Doritos and Pringles it explains why your a remainer.
Held it hostage? The ERG stopped Brexit passing through Parliament multiple times not me. The zealots wanted and even harder Brexit.
Think what you like about me, I really don't mind. I am however interested in your REASONS for voting to leave. Your specific reasons, what do you think will be BETTER if we're out rather than in?
QuoteIf you think the sun is made of potato snacks, crisps, mainly Doritos and Pringles it explains why your a remainer.
How do you know it's not? My opinion is as equally valid as yours right?
Quote from: mk1 on November 12, 2019, 08: PM
The reason we are not already out of the EU is the bong-eyed loony hard Brexiteers did not vote for it.
https://youtu.be/8xix30obkow?t=63
That sentence did not need to include the words 'bong eyed loony' to make the point, but you just can't help it. I've heard it used before of course it must be on a list of terms used by the adherents to the cause. Mind you it does remind you of a list of insults made up by a committee of 14 year old public schoolboys.
Quote from: DRiddle on November 13, 2019, 07: AM
Held it hostage? The ERG stopped Brexit passing through Parliament multiple times not me. The zealots wanted and even harder Brexit.
Think what you like about me, I really don't mind. I am however interested in your REASONS for voting to leave. Your specific reasons, what do you think will be BETTER if we're out rather than in?
We all have reasons, but why would I discuss them with you, you're no expert, just publicist looking for an opportunity to address us like an infant class.
I won't give you that opportunity, because I'm not interested in your reasons.
Quote from: DRiddle on November 13, 2019, 07: AM
QuoteIf you think the sun is made of potato snacks, crisps, mainly Doritos and Pringles it explains why your a remainer.
How do you know it's not? My opinion is as equally valid as yours right?
You're getting really desperate now aren't you?
There's a fine line between persistence and demented obsession.......
No, no, you're getting closer to that corner you've been backing yourself into now. I said people who refuse to give their reasons for Brexit are often either unable to, or are unwilling to admit their reasons centre around immigration.
Which one are you? Unable or unwilling?
Fred implied two opinions are equally valid. They're not, as shown by my example with the sun. Go on, you said I was an idiot for potentially believing the sun is made of crisps. WHY am I an idiot for thinking that? How do you KNOW I'm an idiot?
Now you're sounding like some demented doorstep preacher try to save the world from the 'Lord's Wrath'.
No, no, you're getting closer to that corner you've been backing yourself into now. I said people who refuse to give their reasons for Brexit are often either unable to, or are unwilling to admit their reasons centre around immigration
DRiddle, your choices there are very much like Labours choice of questions in their new "peoples vote" .Remain or Labours new exit deal (also remain).Believe it or not immigration is not at the top of most people's list, but you do seem to be obsessed with it.
David, you really are determined to convince everyone that you are much smarter then they are, but you really are becoming extremely offensive towards people who have a different opinion to you.......That isn't nice and it isn't clever.
Fred Dave is a teacher and you know that they are much cleverer than anyone under 16 ,however most of us who use this forum are much older than that.
Quote from: fred c on November 13, 2019, 09: AM
David, you really are determined to convince everyone that you are much smarter then they are, but you really are becoming extremely offensive towards people who have a different opinion to you.......That isn't nice and it isn't clever.
I get the feeling he doesn't care, as long as he can prove his point and pat himself on the back. He seems to regard us as dullards to be converted to the cause by his 'brilliant' logic. Unfortunately he fails to see the flaws in his logic. This is obviously a sign of panic that we may be cutting the mooring ropes to the EU.
Quote from: Inspector Knacker on November 13, 2019, 07: AM
Quote from: DRiddle on November 12, 2019, 08: PM
Because Fred, I value the NHS more than I do the ability to buy an inferior quality hoover.
Forget the scare story/political slogans sing you may believe that alarmist twaddle.
Democracy 102, a democratic decision isn't fixed and does NOT last forever. It's regularly revisited and reviewed.
That logic is straight from the 1984 rule book. How you have the sheer audacity to think you can get away with a sentence like that without blushing, is embarrassing.
If it's wasnt, we'd never even have gotten as far as the Magna Carta.
Don't have the barefaced cheek to bring Magna Carta into. Your sides actions in the referendum were about blatantly denying democracy then spending three years holding democracy to hostage to maintain political serfdom.
Well said
Quote from: Inspector Knacker on November 13, 2019, 08: AM
Quote from: mk1 on November 12, 2019, 08: PM
The reason we are not already out of the EU is the bong-eyed loony hard Brexiteers did not vote for it.
https://youtu.be/8xix30obkow?t=63
That sentence did not need to include the words 'bong eyed loony' to make the point, but you just can't help it. I've heard it used before of course it must be on a list of terms used by the adherents to the cause. Mind you it does remind you of a list of insults made up by a committee of 14 year old public schoolboys.
Of course it did standard MK1 response
So immigration isn't at the top of most people's lists? What IS then?
Give it a rest....
Based on the outcome of the election we will either:
Leave= tough get over it
or
Remain=you will never be able to spout on here or at the clowncil ever again about democracy if you have an ounce of of pride.
What others think on here is none of your business and irrelevant. They will decide at the election.
None of my business, possibly. Irrelevant, certainly not.
People who've read this thread from start to finish will infer your reasons for voting leave from your unwillingness to give them.
In this country we have a system of secret ballots to decide political and other issues,the word "secret" should give a clue to why most people are keeping the reason for voting whichever way they did to themselves. If they wanted to have their reasons held up for dissection by those who think that only their opinion is valid I'm quite sure they would share it here,the fact that they don't should be a clue that they just don't want to engage with you.
You may have noticed that my statement applies to those who voted to remain as much as it does to those who wanted to leave.
Quote from: akarjl2 on November 13, 2019, 06: AM
I am guessing you voted remain.......
It is not often you are right and today is no exception.
Quote from: akarjl2 on November 13, 2019, 06: AM
Their are plenty of bong eyed loony remainers around....you only have to stand outside parliament - the blue flag is a give away.....and we seem to have at least one amongst us here.
Campaigning for the status quo does not a loony make. Extreme views are the fruitcake hallmark. The Brexit Party (RIP) were after an extreme version of 'Leave' where all connections with Europe were severed on principle. Even fellow Leavers call those people extremists.
Quote from: DRiddle on November 13, 2019, 01: PM
None of my business, possibly. Irrelevant, certainly not.
People who've read this thread from start to finish will infer your reasons for voting leave from your unwillingness to give them.
Most people here don't give a flying f*c* as to how I voted or why.....you on the other hand seem obsessed with basically "proving" all pro Brexit votes were made as a result of perceived "racists" reacting to immigration. In many cases this is simply not the case however despite your demands and frustration people simply will not cave in to your irritating and frankly ludicrous demands.
Still it is very entertaining watching you flip your lid every day becoming increasingly frustrated....some of us with time on our hands will bait you incessantly regarding your demands until you give up.
GUYS: Riddle, mk1 et al are a mirror image of the remoaners such as Osborne, Carney, Hammond (who just been handed a job inside the EU..how cosy), Grieve, Gauke etc.
They WILL have their way, cos they know best. NO, they don't.
I don't waste my time taking part in social intercourse with lost causes, hence my lack of response to impudent demands for elucidation on points I have made.
However, simply to strengthen the resolve of the 'leavers' like fred c and other sensible people on here (I don't give a flying fuc% about the remoaners), I offer the following;
In a 1963 European Court case, it decreed;
"The Treaty (of Rome) is more than an agreement which merely creates mutual obligations between contracting States. This view is confirmed by the preamble to the Treaty, which refers not only to governments but to peoples...the Community constitutes a new legal order in international law, for whose benefit the States have limited their Sovereign Rights, albeit within limited fields, and the subjects of which comprise not only the member States, but also their Nationals".
Within a year, in the Costa v ENEL case, the European Court stated that Community Law over-rides conflicting national State Laws.
"The transfer by the States from their domestic legal system to the Community Legal system of rights and obligations, arising under the Treaty (of Rome),carries with it a permanent limitation of their Sovereign Rights".
By 1970, in another European Court case, the European Court declared its view that Community Law should take precedence, even over the constitutional laws of the member states...including basic entrenched laws guaranteeing fundamental rights.
European Law has 'Primacy' over other State laws.
Mr Justice Hoffman, in a 1990 case stated;
"The Treaty of Rome is the Supreme Law of this country, taking precedence over Acts of Parliament. Our entry into the Community meant that (subject to our undoubted but probably theoretical right to withdraw from the Community altogether), Parliament surrendered its Sovereign right to legislate, contrary to the Treaty, on matters of social and economic policy, which it regulated."
There are many more 'cases' where the EU has indicated its total disregard for our laws. The European Court has Primacy..end of. (In their view).
I shall go to my grave fighting those that believe they have the right to impose 'their' laws on me and mine.
We need to be out of their 'back of a fag packet' and glass of Cognac, rules and regulations.
We are nearly there, watch this country take flight, once the shackles are broken.
By the way Riddle, the EU regulation you refer to regarding vacuum cleaners, was nothing to do with 'inferior quality'.
The EU decided we had to save electricity by limiting the power output and noise of vacuum cleaners. Those requiring over 900 watts and 80 decibels are being phased out ....by EU law.
See, you are not as smart as you obviously think you are. Strangely, I find quite a few teachers are self absorbed.
A university can have a deleterious effect on an individual, especially then the EU pours millions of pounds, every year, into those universities that are willing to proselytise its snowflake intake.
Quote from: mk1 on November 13, 2019, 01: PM
Quote from: akarjl2 on November 13, 2019, 06: AM
I am guessing you voted remain.......
It is not often you are right and today is no exception.
Good to know...
Quote from: grim reaper on November 13, 2019, 01: PM
GUYS: Riddle, mk1 et al are a mirror image of the remoaners such as Osborne, Carney, Hammond (who just been handed a job inside the EU..how cosy), Grieve, Gauke etc.
They WILL have their way, cos they know best. NO, they don't.
I don't waste my time taking part in social intercourse with lost causes, hence my lack of response to impudent demands for elucidation on points I have made.
However, simply to strengthen the resolve of the 'leavers' like fred c and other sensible people on here (I don't give a flying fuc% about the remoaners), I offer the following;
In a 1963 European Court case, it decreed;
"The Treaty (of Rome) is more than an agreement which merely creates mutual obligations between contracting States. This view is confirmed by the preamble to the Treaty, which refers not only to governments but to peoples...the Community constitutes a new legal order in international law, for whose benefit the States have limited their Sovereign Rights, albeit within limited fields, and the subjects of which comprise not only the member States, but also their Nationals".
Within a year, in the Costa v ENEL case, the European Court stated that Community Law over-rides conflicting national State Laws.
"The transfer by the States from their domestic legal system to the Community Legal system of rights and obligations, arising under the Treaty (of Rome),carries with it a permanent limitation of their Sovereign Rights".
By 1970, in another European Court case, the European Court declared its view that Community Law should take precedence, even over the constitutional laws of the member states...including basic entrenched laws guaranteeing fundamental rights.
European Law has 'Primacy' over other State laws.
Mr Justice Hoffman, in a 1990 case stated;
"The Treaty of Rome is the Supreme Law of this country, taking precedence over Acts of Parliament. Our entry into the Community meant that (subject to our undoubted but probably theoretical right to withdraw from the Community altogether), Parliament surrendered its Sovereign right to legislate, contrary to the Treaty, on matters of social and economic policy, which it regulated."
There are many more 'cases' where the EU has indicated its total disregard for our laws. The European Court has Primacy..end of. (In their view).
I shall go to my grave fighting those that believe they have the right to impose 'their' laws on me and mine.
We need to be out of their 'back of a fag packet' and glass of Cognac, rules and regulations.
We are nearly there, watch this country take flight, once the shackles are broken.
By the way Riddle, the EU regulation you refer to regarding vacuum cleaners, was nothing to do with 'inferior quality'.
The EU decided we had to save electricity by limiting the power output and noise of vacuum cleaners. Those requiring over 900 watts and 80 decibels are being phased out ....by EU law.
See, you are not as smart as you obviously think you are. Strangely, I find quite a few teachers are self absorbed.
A university can have a deleterious effect on an individual, especially then the EU pours millions of pounds, every year, into those universities that are willing to proselytise its snowflake intake.
BOOM
Quote from: akarjl2 on November 13, 2019, 12: PM
Of course it did standard MK1 response.........
Which as always has the standard fruitcake riposte that:
a) claims they do not read my posts
b) addresses all my points
Actually I hang on your every word, I find it very entertaining- a lot of what you say makes sense...then again a lot doesn't and you are somewhat predictable as many of us are. ;)
Quote from: grim reaper on November 13, 2019, 01: PM
A university can have a deleterious effect on an individual, especially then the EU pours millions of pounds, every year, into those universities that are willing to proselytise its snowflake intake.
It is a sore point with fruitcakes that Leave voters have, on average, less formal education that those who voted to Remain. They constantly rail against this simple fact and unable to refute the facts they make general attacks on 'education'.
Here is the data they desperately want to discredit:
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/923/7gCKsU.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/pn7gCKsUj)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/923/pqyJDz.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/pnpqyJDzj)
The graduates of 'the University Of life' were on Newsnight last night. They did a 'Voters Panel' thingy where they got the views of a load of wrinklies(all sat in a pub) and some lads playing football. All of the beer-drinkers said they would happily see the end of the UK and the loss of Scotland and NI with one comment that 'we have conquered half the world'. The young lads were very uncomplimentary about the strongly held opinions of their elders.
Quote from: Inspector Knacker on November 13, 2019, 08: AM
That sentence did not need to include the words 'bong eyed loony' to make the point
To say that you would have to know what point I was trying to make.
Rest assured my words were carefully chosen.
Quote from: Inspector Knacker on November 13, 2019, 08: AM
but you just can't help it.
Incorrect. I always chose my words carefully.
Quote from: Inspector Knacker on November 13, 2019, 08: AMI've heard it used before of course..........
Familiarity with the terms seems not to have lessened their impact or ability to trigger.
So you voted to leave for the right to own NOSIER vacuum cleaners?
Perhaps not ...perhaps noisier?
Quote from: mk1 on November 13, 2019, 02: PM
Quote from: grim reaper on November 13, 2019, 01: PM
A university can have a deleterious effect on an individual, especially then the EU pours millions of pounds, every year, into those universities that are willing to proselytise its snowflake intake.
It is a sore point with fruitcakes that Leave voters have, on average, less formal education that those who voted to Remain. They constantly rail against this simple fact and unable to refute the facts they make general attacks on 'education'.
Here is the data they desperately want to discredit:
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/923/7gCKsU.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/pn7gCKsUj)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/923/pqyJDz.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/pnpqyJDzj)
The graduates of 'the University Of life' were on Newsnight last night. They did a 'Voters Panel' thingy where they got the views of a load of wrinklies(all sat in a pub) and some lads playing football. All of the beer-drinkers said they would happily see the end of the UK and the loss of Scotland and NI with one comment that 'we have conquered half the world'. The young lads were very uncomplimentary about the strongly held opinions of their elders.
After analysing your posts it's obvious you despise everybody and don't vote. A sideline sniper.
Quote from: mk1 on November 13, 2019, 02: PM
Quote from: Inspector Knacker on November 13, 2019, 08: AM
That sentence did not need to include the words 'bong eyed loony' to make the point
To say that you would have to know what point I was trying to make.
Rest assured my words were carefully chosen.
Quote from: Inspector Knacker on November 13, 2019, 08: AM
but you just can't help it.
Incorrect. I always chose my words carefully.
Quote from: Inspector Knacker on November 13, 2019, 08: AMI've heard it used before of course..........
Familiarity with the terms seems not to have lessened their impact or ability to trigger.
Does anyone measure up to your exceedingly high standards? God for instance?
Quote from: mk1 on November 13, 2019, 01: PM
Campaigning for the status quo does not a loony make. Extreme views are the fruitcake hallmark.
Campaigning to undo an election result is not a fruitcake action, it's far worse than that, it's a chest thumping contempt for democracy.
So to summarise so far, no leave voters will give THEIR personal reasons for voting the way they did.
All opinions are apparently equally valid (even though they're clearly NOT).
The EU imposes laws on us even though no one will name a specific law.
Mentioning the Magna Carta upsets Brexit voters.
Democracy is a one off vote. Set In stone forever and should NOT be revisited EVER.
Finally, brexit voters like noisy hoovers and cheap tampons.
That's sorted then.
Quote from: DRiddle on November 13, 2019, 06: PM
So to summarise so far, no leave voters will give THEIR personal reasons for voting the way they did.
The penny drops
QuoteAll opinions are apparently equally valid
Correct
Quote(even though they're clearly NOT).
Incorrect
QuoteThe EU imposes laws on us even though no one will name a specific law.
Google is your friend....
QuoteMentioning the Magna Carta upsets Brexit voters.
Some it would appear..
QuoteDemocracy is a one off vote. Set In stone forever and should NOT be revisited EVER.
You lost the referendum seems to be taking time to sink in....
QuoteFinally, brexit voters like noisy hoovers and cheap tampons.
About as relevant as saying remainers like quiet hoovers and expensive tampons
Please tell us you do not teach politics or humanities?.........
Quote from: DRiddle on November 13, 2019, 06: PM
So to summarise so far, no leave voters will give THEIR personal reasons for voting the way they did.
At last.
All opinions are apparently equally valid (even though they're clearly NOT).
Whatever.
The EU imposes laws on us even though no one will name a specific law.
...again, whatever.
Mentioning the Magna Carta upsets Brexit voters.
The Magna Carta is to be celebrated, not used as a stooge for convoluted schemes.
Democracy is a one off vote. Set In stone forever and should NOT be revisited EVER.
No, it's there to be acted upon, not dragged into a dark alleyway and strangled by those who don't get the result they demand.
Finally, brexit voters like noisy hoovers and cheap tampons.
It's YOUR obsession, whatever you get up to behind your own front door is your business.
That's sorted then.
I doubt it Ariston .
We established earlier today all opinions are NOT equally valid. An informed, knowledgeable opinion is MORE valid the one which isn't.
What are you scared of exactly? In terms of being unwilling to disclose your reasons for voting leave?
You're nearly all hiding behind pseudonyms, I'm using my real name. What have you got to worry about in disclosing why you voted the way you did?
Go on, you can tell me. What was it? Foreigners? 'Muslim Ray-Guns'?, bendy bananas? foreign aid contributions? The French? The metric system? jean christophe novelli? Gerd Muller in the 1970 World Cup?
You're wasting your time. Audios.
Quote from: Inspector Knacker on November 13, 2019, 05: PM
Campaigning to undo an election result is not a fruitcake action, it's far worse than that, it's a chest thumping contempt for democracy.
Ah now I know what the problem is. You think 'democracy' means once
you get what
you want then no on else is allowed to challenge or work overturn that decision under any circumstance.
The logic being deployed now then, is once a vote goes a certain way, it should remain that way FOREVER and anyone on the wrong side of the vote has to just keep quiet and accept it?
Could someone explain how living on an island of finite area and resources and worrying about how many people are coming to live here is racist? I would have thought it common sense to realize we have to try to limit the amount of people living on our small island, is that common sense or racism?
So your concern involves immigration?
Quote from: DRiddle on November 13, 2019, 08: PM
So your concern involves immigration?
Is that question directed at me?
Yup
If you take the time to actually read what I have written you would "get" that what I am asking is why is being realistic about our island is racist, so no, my question is not about immigration, it's about racism and the way the accusation of racism is used to silence common sense.
Quote from: Grumblstiltskin on November 13, 2019, 08: PM
Could someone explain how living on an island of finite area and resources and worrying about how many people are coming to live here is racist? I would have thought it common sense to realize we have to try to limit the amount of people living on our small island, is that common sense or racism?
All nations have immigration limits but there appears to be all lot of (deliberate?) conflation between refugees/asylum seekers and the principle of free movement for EU members. Nothing will change regarding refugees if we leave the EU.
I suppose one way to end the exodus from Iraq, Syria, Libya and Afghanistan might be to stop sending your armed forces there to destroy that country in the first place.
Quote from: DRiddle on November 13, 2019, 08: PM
So your concern involves immigration?
Some poor sucker is going to be the victim of a furious barrage of pent up indignation from repetitive remainer.
Quote from: mk1 on November 13, 2019, 09: PM
Quote from: Grumblstiltskin on November 13, 2019, 08: PM
Could someone explain how living on an island of finite area and resources and worrying about how many people are coming to live here is racist? I would have thought it common sense to realize we have to try to limit the amount of people living on our small island, is that common sense or racism?
All nations have immigration limits but there appears to be all lot of (deliberate?) conflation between refugees/asylum seekers and the principle of free movement for EU members. Nothing will change regarding refugees if we leave the EU.
I suppose one way to end the exodus from Iraq, Syria, Libya and Afghanistan might be to stop sending your armed forces there to destroy that country in the first place.
I can agree with you both there.
Quote from: Grumblstiltskin on November 13, 2019, 08: PM
Quote from: DRiddle on November 13, 2019, 08: PM
So your concern involves immigration?
Is that question directed at me?
Head for the hills, dig a hole and hide till the 13th of December.
Quote from: DRiddle on November 13, 2019, 08: PM
So your concern involves immigration?
Very disconcerting to be so badly misread, also I was taught to never trust someone who answers a question with another question.
Quote from: Grumblstiltskin on November 13, 2019, 10: PM
Quote from: DRiddle on November 13, 2019, 08: PM
So your concern involves immigration?
I was taught to never trust someone who answers a question with another question.
You may have been 'taught' but obviously did not 'learn'.
Quote from: Grumblstiltskin on November 13, 2019, 08: PM
Quote from: DRiddle on November 13, 2019, 08: PM
So your concern involves immigration?
Is that question directed at me?
Quote from: mk1 on November 13, 2019, 10: PM
Quote from: Grumblstiltskin on November 13, 2019, 10: PM
Quote from: DRiddle on November 13, 2019, 08: PM
So your concern involves immigration?
I was taught to never trust someone who answers a question with another question.
You may have been 'taught' but obviously did not 'learn'.
Quote from: Grumblstiltskin on November 13, 2019, 08: PM
Quote from: DRiddle on November 13, 2019, 08: PM
So your concern involves immigration?
Is that question directed at me?
There's a difference to answering a question with another question and clarifying who a remark is directed at, you are obviously a David supporter looking to nitpick, feel free if it makes you feel better. I used to enjoy David's posts and find them eye opening but this "dog with a bone" attitude does not suit him at all.
Quote from: Grumblstiltskin on November 13, 2019, 10: PM
There's a difference to answering a question with another question and clarifying who a remark is directed at, you are obviously a David supporter looking to nitpick, feel free if it makes you feel better. I used to enjoy David's posts and find them eye opening but this "dog with a bone" attitude does not suit him at all.
It was an open goal and I could not resist. Its no big deal so best not to make an issue out of it.
Quote from: mk1 on November 13, 2019, 10: PM
Quote from: Grumblstiltskin on November 13, 2019, 10: PM
There's a difference to answering a question with another question and clarifying who a remark is directed at, you are obviously a David supporter looking to nitpick, feel free if it makes you feel better. I used to enjoy David's posts and find them eye opening but this "dog with a bone" attitude does not suit him at all.
It was an open goal and I could not resist. Its no big deal so best not to make an issue out of it.
Touche, I do have to admit to a little "baiting" from time to time
There's clearly a different tone and general manner to my posts on this thread, correct.
That's deliberate.
When I first posted onto this forum many years ago, at times I adopted a similar approach to that which I've projected this week.
The REASON for that (I like reasons, you may have noticed) is back then, about 10 or 11 years ago, this forum has become an echo chamber for a small group of hard core UKIP members.
Their views were entrenched, actually quite biggotted in my opinion, and there was zero movement in their opinions. They worked as a pack, led by the now deceased 'kipperdip'. Every single thread got turned around to the 'evil EU' no matter how unconnected the subject matter.
Criticism of the EU wasn't tolerated.
Gradually, faced with genuine 'opposition' from SteveL, myself, MK1 and here's the kicker, various others who NO LONGER POST HERE, the UKIPPER's gradually went into their shells. Some posted less frequently, some left altogether, and eventually (at my request to steveL actually) a second topic are was created on the forum for specifically EU/international politics.
The forum became a much better place and there was a much more united effort on here to focus on dealing with the Scabs, cranney and the like.
Now, fast forward 11 years and look at recent weeks/months on this forum.
In my opinion (you might disagree but we're all entitled to our opinions right?) the forum has returned to the kind of place it was when I first posted here.
Look at the actual title of the thread you're posting on and what my original point was.
Look at the nature of the thread NOW. Look at how it developed.
I haven't 'suddenly become' some hard core self opinionated europhile. I don't consider myself for one second to be cleverer than anyone else, nor am I in any way trying to 'prove myself to be'.
But I can quickly 'become that person' and 'play that roll' if I deem it necessary to do so to illustrate a point.
And right now, I DO deem it necessary. As I said in the opening post in this thread, the forum has almost become 'off limits' to people who criticise Shane and/or the Brexit Party.
That's NOT a good thing for the forum or for political debate in general.
I've had to go around the houses to illustrate my point by adopting the manner, tone and style of post which I feel has crept back into this forum FROM OTHERS in recent months.
I HAVE been overly defensive of my position (of pro EU), I have been implicitly or even overtly critical of people who are pro Brexit. It's not nice is it? It didn't make for good political debate did it? Kind of spoilt the whole experience didn't it? Made the forum not a good place to be?
Well imagine how myself and other people have felt in recent weeks and months. As our opinions on Shane and the current ruling group were dismissed, condescendingly attacked, or chipped away at just as vociferously as I've been on my posts on this thread.
When I first posted on high tax Hartlepool it was under the pseudonym 'Perseus'.
If you know your Greek mythology you'll know he's know for using a mirror (mirrored shield technically) very effectively.
For about a week now I've been 'holding the mirror up' again. Reflecting back on some the kind of discourse and manner they've subjected others to in recent weeks.
We cant go back to that place ladies and gentlemen. The forum cannot become a 'one position only', no dissent, pro Brexit party Petri dish. I for one won't allow it.
I tried making the point immediately above in more conventional terms, but it fell on deaf ears.
Lastly, it was interesting to see people bring my profession into this thread several times.
Yes I am a teacher.
And some of you . . . . Have just been taught a lesson.
You neither read nor answered my question, preferring to plough on, even when I made the point that I wasn't answered and was misread, great qualities for a teacher, or would that be a preacher to the unworthy/uneducated?
Before I do answer, I haven't implied anyone who did factor immigration into their decision to vote leave IS racist. I merely suggested that a lot of people who WON'T give a reason, won't give it because the reason is immigration.
You can see that development VERY clearly around pages 9-10 on this thread.
People then inferred I would suggest they were racist if they DID say immigration.
Quote from: DRiddle on November 14, 2019, 01: AM
Yes I am a teacher.
And some of you . . . . Have just been taught a lesson.
Seriously listen to yourself - the real teachers I knew would not waste their time in local politics and trying to play mind games here......they were considered to be professionals .
I suspect somebody in either your private or professional life has advised you that you had lost the plot and were acting like a c**k ......
Hence the "I had a plan" post........
Phew thanks...we were all getting a little worried ( not)
Are council elections due anytime soon?
No, all my own work. ;)
You'll need to try a lot harder if you're intending to drive people like me and MK1 away from the forum.
So, grumble . . . Where were we?
Quote
Re: What's going on?
« Reply #240 on: November 13, 2019, 08: PM »
Quote
If you take the time to actually read what I have written you would "get" that what I am asking is why is being realistic about our island is racist, so no, my question is not about immigration, it's about racism and the way the accusation of racism is used to silence common sense.
"OUR island"?
Quote from: mk1 on November 13, 2019, 07: PM
Quote from: Inspector Knacker on November 13, 2019, 05: PM
Campaigning to undo an election result is not a fruitcake action, it's far worse than that, it's a chest thumping contempt for democracy.
Ah now I know what the problem is. You think 'democracy' means once you get what you want then no on else is allowed to challenge or work overturn that decision under any circumstance.
If the result of referendum had been acted upon, that would have been seen as democracy in action....
Those who wanted to remain could then have campaigned using the democratic process for a referendum to rejoin the EU.
Quote from: fred c on November 14, 2019, 08: AM
If the result of referendum had been acted upon, that would have been seen as democracy in action....
The UK would be out now if JRM and the die-hard isolationists had voted for Mays deal.
It was not the Remainers who prevented it but the extreme LeaversThe blame lies with the Leavers.
Quote from: mk1 on November 14, 2019, 08: AM
Quote from: fred c on November 14, 2019, 08: AM
If the result of referendum had been acted upon, that would have been seen as democracy in action....
The UK would be out now if JRM and the die-hard isolationists had voted for Mays deal.
It was not the Remainers who prevented it but the extreme Leavers
The blame lies with the Leavers.
Ohh no it doesn't
Quote from: fred c on November 14, 2019, 08: AM
Ohh no it doesn't
It does.
May spent millions bribing the DUP so she had a majority. This means that if all the Tories voted with their party then the act would have been passed and
the opposition could not have stopped it. That is a fact. The problem was the bong-eyed loony hard Brexiteers who hate everything to do with Europe and they scuppered it so they could crash out with No Deal. They deliberately wrecked Mays deal.
.
That is so well-known that only someone who also wants an extreme No Deal solution would even bother trying to deny it.
I think the problem might be that you do not understand the distinction between an 'Agreement' and a 'No Deal' crash-out.
The Tory remainers were on-board for Mays deal and only blocked the fruitcakes from getting their No Deal solution.
They did not vote against May's Agreement JRM did.
The truth is it was the fruitcakes who scuppered your dream.
Quote from: DRiddle on November 14, 2019, 01: AM
I haven't 'suddenly become' some hard core self opinionated europhile. I don't consider myself for one second to be cleverer than anyone else, nor am I in any way trying to 'prove myself to be'.
But I can quickly 'become that person' and 'play that roll' if I deem it necessary to do so to illustrate a point.
And right now, I DO deem it necessary.
Quote from: akarjl2 on November 14, 2019, 07: AM
Seriously listen to yourself - the real teachers I knew would not waste their time in local politics and trying to play mind games here......they were considered to be professionals .
I suspect somebody in either your private or professional life has advised you that you had lost the plot and were acting like a c**k ......
Hence the "I had a plan" post........
Phew thanks...we were all getting a little worried ( not)
Are council elections due anytime soon?
So do you consider yourself cleverer than everybody else, it seems like what you are saying here is that you are not but somehow have a switch that you can turn on to play the role of a cleverer person, really!!, are you a drama teacher?
I have the same opinion of akarjl2, you have either realised you have been on a days long trip of some sort OR someone has mentioned you are losing it so you are now making out that the tone of your posts was your plan all along, I don't buy it because quite frankly if you where that good an actor you would not be a drama teacher would you. (btw guessing it's not any sciences either due to the sun comments)
Finally, frankly for you to come up with:
Quote from: DRiddle on November 14, 2019, 01: AM
And some of you . . . . Have just been taught a lesson.
Is the absolute height of arrogance, far and above what even MK1 would put out on this forum I daresay.
I used to have a lot of respect for you David but that is now fast dwindling.
Yes there is a bit of baiting here as I do not know what you teach but one thing I can say from my perspective you have not taught anything here except pity for someone who seems to be losing the plot.
BTW before you ask, I voted remain
Quote from: mk1 on November 14, 2019, 08: AM
Quote from: fred c on November 14, 2019, 08: AM
Ohh no it doesn't
It does.
May spent millions bribing the DUP so she had a majority. This means that if all the Tories voted with their party then the act would have been passed and the opposition could not have stopped it. That is a fact. The problem was the bong-eyed loony hard Brexiteers who hate everything to do with Europe and they scuppered it so they could crash out with No Deal. They deliberately wrecked Mays deal.
.
That is so well-known that only someone who also wants an extreme No Deal solution would even bother trying to deny it.
I think the problem might be that you do not understand the distinction between an 'Agreement' and a 'No Deal' crash-out.
The Tory remainers were on-board for Mays deal and only blocked the fruitcakes from getting their No Deal solution.
They did not vote against May's Agreement JRM did.
The truth is it was the fruitcakes who scuppered your dream.
Ohhhh No It Wasn't
Simple solution = split the union
Scotland get on with it- self funded
NI get on with it- self funded
Wales get on with it- self funded
England move ahead without minority regions holding us to ransom.....
On this occasion MK1 is spot on re JRM and Co. I wonder ( well I don't really) if JRM shorted the pound just before the carnage occurred with the traitors in parliament ignoring the will of the electorate and the pound diving ?
I'm not particularly bothered if you've lost respect for me to be honest.
Asking largely faceless anonymous people on a political debating forum for their reasons for voting Brexit is hardly a crime is it?
I added a bit of life to a dying forum full of faceless Brexit voters.
If anything you should thank me.
Quote from: Tee_Ess_25er on November 14, 2019, 11: AM
BTW before you ask, I voted remain
The devil is in the detail..... ;) ;) ;)
Quote from: akarjl2 on November 14, 2019, 01: PM
Simple solution = split the union
Scotland get on with it- self funded
NI get on with it- self funded
Wales get on with it- self funded
England move ahead without minority regions holding us to ransom.....
I wonder if London and the South East feel the same way about the rust-belt to the north?
Quote from: DRiddle on November 14, 2019, 01: PM
I'm not particularly bothered if you've lost respect for me to be honest.
Asking largely faceless anonymous people on a political debating forum for their reasons for voting Brexit is hardly a crime is it?
I added a bit of life to a dying forum full of faceless Brexit voters.
If anything you should thank me.
What's your hat size now David ?
I don't wear one Fred. Getting back to the Brexit thing, I assume leave voters are confident the money regions like the north east gets from Europe will be replaced by the likes of Boris and Rhys-Mogg?
You're confident the structural funding from the EU will be fully replaced by the governments shared prosperity fund?
You considered that when you voted leave right?
Quote from: mk1 on November 14, 2019, 08: AM
Quote from: fred c on November 14, 2019, 08: AM
Ohh no it doesn't
It does.
May spent millions bribing the DUP so she had a majority. This means that if all the Tories voted with their party then the act would have been passed and the opposition could not have stopped it. That is a fact. The problem was the bong-eyed loony hard Brexiteers who hate everything to do with Europe and they scuppered it so they could crash out with No Deal. They deliberately wrecked Mays deal.
.
That is so well-known that only someone who also wants an extreme No Deal solution would even bother trying to deny it.
I think the problem might be that you do not understand the distinction between an 'Agreement' and a 'No Deal' crash-out.
The Tory remainers were on-board for Mays deal and only blocked the fruitcakes from getting their No Deal solution.
They did not vote against May's Agreement JRM did.
The truth is it was the fruitcakes who scuppered your dream.
When the word Brexit is mentioned, how long before you reach for the Rennes?
Quote from: DRiddle on November 14, 2019, 01: PM
I'm not particularly bothered if you've lost respect for me to be honest.
I suspect you're gutted.
I added a bit of life to a dying forum full of faceless Brexit voters.
No, you just bored the pants off people with your monotonously tedious display of not very clever cleverdickishness
If anything you should thank me.
What for, coming last in the Trojan horse race?
Quote from: Inspector Knacker on November 14, 2019, 07: PM
When the word Brexit is mentioned, how long before you reach for the Rennes?
To be honest no idea ....sleeps hits me first.....
Best stockpile a few just in case then.
Quote from: fred c on November 14, 2019, 07: PM
Quote from: mk1 on November 14, 2019, 12: PM
Quote from: fred c on November 14, 2019, 12: PM
Ohhhh No It Wasn't
Ohhh yes it was.
Your turn
Ohhhhh No It Wasn't
Oh yes it was.
Loony fruitcake bong-eyed JRG ruined the dreams of his fellow loony bong-eyed cultists.
Quote from: Inspector Knacker on November 14, 2019, 07: PM
When the word Brexit is mentioned, how long before you reach for the Rennes?
I think Rennes is a lovely place to 'reach'
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rennes
Quote from: fred c on November 14, 2019, 07: PM
What's your hat size now David ?
I believe he goes 'sans chapeau'
https://youtu.be/T7hHx7gdN68?t=56
Unlike Maddy Prior
https://youtu.be/QUw59M8dTBg?t=119
Quote from: fred c on November 14, 2019, 08: PM
Whatever.....
..............you want.
https://youtu.be/z7-z4Dz5ZU4?t=118
Quote from: mk1 on November 14, 2019, 07: PM
Loony fruitcake bong-eyed JRG ruined the dreams of his fellow loony bong-eyed cultists.
How about coming up with a new insult in stead of mimicking Cameron's repertoire. Top marks for resorting to pages of boring you tube clips and charts etc, etc, but zero for humour.
Cue YouTube clip featuring 'humour'.
Quote from: Inspector Knacker on November 15, 2019, 08: AM
How about coming up with a new insult ...............
Because it is a very effective
.
.(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/922/wHDByQ.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/pmwHDByQj)
For the perplexed Fruitcakes I give you the Sun crossword version of the above:
because it is a very effective
.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/923/3zTcVU.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/pn3zTcVUj)
If you think your 'insult' is effective, I can only assume you've lead a very sheltered life.
However I suppose it is thought fairly raucous in yoghurt knitting circles
Quote from: Inspector Knacker on November 15, 2019, 10: AM
If you think your 'insult' is effective, I can only assume you've ....................
....seen The Scottish Play? 'The lady doth protest too much, methinks'
Another post which IK & Mk 1 have took over, we need an IK, MK1 forum only, their antics are putting people off posting their opinions.
What I don't understand about mk1 and Dave Riddle's posts is why don't they use cogent arguments as to why they are, apparently, remainers as their posts suggest. Surely, this is more acceptable and persuasive than the lambast and insults that they are currently employing. All that this does is to give the impression that they despise the people that they are attacking.
David, as an educator why don't you educate the leavers by giving them the reasons why they should have voted remain? You never know, you may persuade them to remain when (if) Corbyn ever offers the chance for the public to vote again.
Quote from: seaton on November 15, 2019, 01: PM
Another post which IK & Mk 1 have took over, we need an IK, MK1 forum only, their antics are putting people off posting their opinions.
I agree. It's not even worthy and intelligible opinions being posted, it's more like playground one-upmanship.
It's pissing me off to be frank.
I keep on reading (or scrolling more like), but I don't feel inclined to even bother getting involved by posting my opinions any more. Whatever I say will be wrong in some way shape or form.
Quote from: diSme on November 15, 2019, 04: PM
I agree. It's not even worthy and intelligible opinions being posted, it's more like playground one-upmanship.
It's pissing me off to be frank.
I keep on reading (or scrolling more like), but I don't feel inclined to even bother getting involved by posting my opinions any more. Whatever I say will be wrong in some way shape or form.
I checked. It seems you only came back to life when you thought Brexit did not get a positive slant. If you cared about the forum you would START threads but you don't. I used to do it on a regular basis
because no one else was posting anythingI get told I am 'wrong' all the time and a bunch of cry-babies are actively trying to silence me (dream on snowflakes) but I can handle it.
Quote from: whatabouthisthen on November 15, 2019, 03: PM
What I don't understand about mk1 and Dave Riddle's posts is why don't they use cogent arguments as to why they are, apparently, remainers as their posts suggest.
There seems to be other matters you don't understand. Please link me to a post where I come down in favour of Leaving or staying.
Oh and in case you had not noticed 3 'Leavers have made it plain they will not be explaining their reasons to anyone so perhaps you could 'chide' them as well?
Quote from: mk1 on November 15, 2019, 05: PM
Quote from: diSme on November 15, 2019, 04: PM
I agree. It's not even worthy and intelligible opinions being posted, it's more like playground one-upmanship.
It's pissing me off to be frank.
I keep on reading (or scrolling more like), but I don't feel inclined to even bother getting involved by posting my opinions any more. Whatever I say will be wrong in some way shape or form.
I checked. It seems you only came back to life when you thought Brexit did not get a positive slant. If you cared about the forum you would START threads but you don't. I used to do it on a regular basis because no one else was posting anything
I get told I am 'wrong' all the time and a bunch of cry-babies are actively trying to silence me (dream on snowflakes) but I can handle it.
Look mate, I'm basically just a working class Hartlepudlian bloke who cares about and has a moderate level of interest in local politics. I don't claim to be intelligent or particularly intellectual, but I do care, and It's becoming increasingly difficult for the likes of me to post my thoughts without being berated or belittled for my 'uneducated' opinions because the forum is chocca block with people who seem to be incessantly swinging their dicks against each other.
I'm not a thread starter. I don't have relevant information to share. All I have is my opinions. If you "checked", then you will have read my opening post and would have realised that wouldn't you...
Quote from: diSme on November 15, 2019, 05: PM
It's becoming increasingly difficult for the likes of me to post my thoughts without being berated or belittled for my 'uneducated' opinions
Can I have the link to where you were 'berated'?
Quote from: diSme on November 15, 2019, 05: PM
I'm not a thread starter. I don't have relevant information to share. All I have is my opinions.
Same here. Notice how I am being berated for sharing my
opinion and the way those offended because I do not echo their views twist my
posting my opinion to me
forcing my views upon them.
Quote from: mk1 on November 15, 2019, 05: PM
Please link me to a post where I come down in favour of Leaving or staying.
Quote from: mk1 on November 13, 2019, 01: PM
Quote from: akarjl2 on November 13, 2019, 06: AM
I am guessing you voted remain.......
It is not often you are right and today is no exception.
As requested happy to oblige ;)
diSme, I have never berated, criticised or in any way mocked your opinions. I don't need proof because I know I haven't done it.
Quote from: akarjl2 on November 15, 2019, 05: PM
Quote from: mk1 on November 13, 2019, 01: PM
Quote from: akarjl2 on November 13, 2019, 06: AM
I am guessing you voted remain.......
It is not often you are right and today is no exception.
As requested ;)
If that is your attempt at a gotcha then you have failed miserably.
Quote from: mk1 on November 15, 2019, 05: PM
Quote from: akarjl2 on November 15, 2019, 05: PM
Quote from: mk1 on November 13, 2019, 01: PM
Quote from: akarjl2 on November 13, 2019, 06: AM
I am guessing you voted remain.......
It is not often you are right and today is no exception.
As requested ;)
If that is your attempt at a gotcha then you have failed miserably.
Nope I just cut and paste your response.......
Ok, maybe I didn't word that quite right. Perhaps I should have said 'without feeling a little bit belittled' or something along those lines. Someone else made a similar post quite recently which I empathise with (don't ask me to try and find it please!).
You have to admit though, both IK and MK1, you are both prolific posters, and a lot of what you are posting recently is literally just irrelevant tit for tat (now that I can find easily), and I really don't think it's conducive for encouraging the likes of me to post my opinions, and from what I gather there are others that feel similarly.
It's almost as if keeping the forum busy and active, or having a high post count has become more important than relevancy.
Personally, I don't mind if things go quiet now and then, it happens when there's nothing much of interest to discuss. I don't see the need to force it just for the sake of activity.
Just my opinion fellas
Quote from: diSme on November 15, 2019, 06: PM
Ok, maybe I didn't word that quite right. Perhaps I should have said 'without feeling a little bit belittled' or something along those lines. Someone else made a similar post quite recently which I empathise with (don't ask me to try and find it please!).
You have to admit though, both IK and MK1, you are both prolific posters, and a lot of what you are posting recently is literally just irrelevant tit for tat (now that I can find easily), and I really don't think it's conducive for encouraging the likes of me to post my opinions, and from what I gather there are others that feel similarly.
It's almost as if keeping the forum busy and active, or having a high post count has become more important than relevancy.
Personally, I don't mind if things go quiet now and then, it happens when there's nothing much of interest to discuss. I don't see the need to force it just for the sake of activity.
Just my opinion fellas
Well said- now hunker down in your trench and expect incoming..... :( :( :( :(
Quote from: diSme on November 15, 2019, 06: PM
Personally, I don't mind if things go quiet now and then, it happens when there's nothing much of interest to discuss. I don't see the need to force it just for the sake of activity.
There are things 'of interest' that could be discussed. The root of the current problems was my attempt to start a thread on Shane's lies, broken promises and duplicity. No one bothered replying about it and when I tried again it was made quite plain that criticism of the current Council is not really welcome.
Quote from: diSme on November 15, 2019, 06: PM
Ok, maybe I didn't word that quite right. Perhaps I should have said 'without feeling a little bit belittled' or something along those lines. Someone else made a similar post quite recently which I empathise with (don't ask me to try and find it please!).
You have to admit though, both IK and MK1, you are both prolific posters, and a lot of what you are posting recently is literally just irrelevant tit for tat (now that I can find easily), and I really don't think it's conducive for encouraging the likes of me to post my opinions, and from what I gather there are others that feel similarly.
It's almost as if keeping the forum busy and active, or having a high post count has become more important than relevancy.
Personally, I don't mind if things go quiet now and then, it happens when there's nothing much of interest to discuss. I don't see the need to force it just for the sake of activity.
Just my opinion fellas
I can assure you if you want to come on, then come on and keep the board alive. My sudden interest, is about Brexit and to be honest decided to have my say, but that's what it's all about.
I can't wait to get back to the boring local stuff in the town and really all this Brexit twaddle should be in another section, where I could avoid it completely. I do not want Brexit brainwashing on this section of the board, simple as that.
If you know my history on this forum you'll know I've spoken at length about hundreds of reasons to remain over the last ten years or so. I did so long before the referendum even became a reality.
I asked for ONE reason from the Brexit voters and was offered nothing but silence, paranoia and insecurities.
To paraphrase Gladstone, a 'You address us as if we were a public meeting'.
Quote from: mk1 on November 15, 2019, 06: PM
when I tried again it was made quite plain that criticism of the current Council is not really welcome.
Feel free crack on with regards to Shane's antics as you said let's see where he jumps after the election.......he is well and truly fair game.
My one reason for voting for Brexit, I've spent 30 odd years at sea working on trawlers and other fishing boats, and having to dump good fish because of no quota and watch French and Belgian boats in our waters catch as much as they want and have the fckn cheek to try and land their fish through our port,(they were told under no circumstances this would be allowed :-X) or German factory ships off Hartlepool catching tons of herring then taking the roe out and dumping the fish thus polluting the seabed for months. Resulting in poor fishing for us, we have bills to pay like everybody, it just makes things harder with foreign boats taking fish that we cant in our own waters. Excuse my grammar, spelling I'm just a thick fisherman a proud one at that.
Quote from: John dory on November 15, 2019, 08: PM
My one reason for voting for Brexit, I've spent 30 odd years at sea working on trawlers and other fishing boats, and having to dump good fish because of no quota and watch French and Belgian boats in our waters catch as much as they want and have the fckn cheek to try and land their fish through our port,(they were told under no circumstances this would be allowed :-X) or German factory ships off Hartlepool catching tons of herring then taking the roe out and dumping the fish thus polluting the seabed for months. Resulting in poor fishing for us, we have bills to pay like everybody, it just makes things harder with foreign boats taking fish that we cant in our own waters. Excuse my grammar, spelling I'm just a thick fisherman a proud one at that.
Mr Riddle care to comment?
[/quote]
....seen The Scottish Play? 'The lady doth protest too much, methinks'
[/quote]
mki, now you are just trolling for responses (either that or the Greatham reference library was on half day closing) as you WELL know you've got your plays a tad mixed-up. Or maybe you missed Macbeth and Hamlet as they were covered while you were in detention for serial magniloquency.
Quote from: Hubris on November 15, 2019, 10: PM
as you WELL know you've got your plays a tad mixed-up.
Gosh that was a silly mistake......................or perhaps a deliberate 'spot the mistake'?
As my postman keeps saying outside the block of new flats over the road (in Greatham)
2B or not 2B, I wish people would write more legibly'
Quote from: Hubris on November 15, 2019, 10: PM
Or maybe you missed Macbeth and Hamlet.
I never miss a chance to see Gregor perform. I have seen all his early work. I remember buying a Macbeth double cheeseburger to watch him with Larry and dicky in all them there plays wot Francis Bacon wrote........
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlYMID5qCdE
Who can forget Kenneth William's Caesar?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6BJJe9JV_A
Quote from: John dory on November 15, 2019, 08: PM
with foreign boats taking fish that we cant in our own waters.
Is that not because they 'bought' the fishing rights from the original British owners?
https://unearthed.greenpeace.org/2019/03/07/fishing-brexit-uk-fleetwood/
Hi John Dory, thanks for your answer. You've given a REASON and you're the first leave voter to actually do that on here. So thanks, genuinely.
Fishing is clearly an immotive issue, particularly in costal towns like Hartlepool. I noticed in one of his campaign videos Richard Tice said "imagine all this full of fishing boats".
Personally I think the 'we'll be able to fish in our own waters" is a classic example of what people like Farage do to win votes. On the face of it, it sounds easy, we leave, fish as much as we want, keep the French etc. OUT of British waters and bobs your uncle, local fishermen make more money.
The reality is far more complicated
Come on David, that wasn't an answer, but I'd be really interested about one on this topic because I spent many days and night plotting activity in the North Sea. So if you need any help I'm available. Happy to help.
There's no immigration involved though apart from the fish and they're surprisingly relaxed.
Aahh so you can demand answers but I can't? That's the kind of inconsistency I was talking about with the very first opening post of this thread.
Anyway, the debunk.
The link posted by MK1 explains the point far more thoroughly than I can, but I.K it involves quite a lot of READING.
I've read it, I've read various other articles on if UK fishing will benefit from leaving and I'm also very aware of Nigel Farage's absolutely shocking attendance record regarding meetings about EU fishing policies.
The general consensus from ALL sections of the media (even the pro Brexit ones) is fishing is WAY down the list of priorities in the withdrawal agreement. BUT, and this is crucial, it's an emotive issue in the costal regions many of which have declined generally over recent decades.
So, in answer to the question, I can fully understand why as a fisherman you may have thought voting leave might be the right way to go.
However, in much the same way as people reading "we'll give an extra £350 million a week to the NHS" have been duped by an emotive promise that'll never actually happen, I'm afraid, so have you.
If anything, if we do leave properly under a Tory government you can bet your bottom dollar fishing will become even MORE marketized, even MORE under the control of a small number of financial powerhouses and even MORE difficult for the little guy with his small fishing boat to make a living.
Just as I expected, no answer. I don't read Mk1's downloads, who does? .....but on this topic I don't need to, I'm in my comfort zone.
You did what I expected, you gave a bit of jibber jabber, redirected 'enquiries' and went into deep waffle mode, ending up in a cul de sac.
So you want to know why fishermen might he better off remaining in the EU, MK1 post a very interesting, heavily evidence based article which answers precisely that . . . And you dont read it.
Maybe that's the reason you voted leave eh?
Wasn't it Gove who said "people have had enough of experts?"
It should be remembered that the 3 (in)famous 'Cod Wars' were all won by Iceland and that in the end the UK surrendered because it was discovered that 'we' needed Iceland far more than they needed us. The UK Government sold the fisherman out for a political advantage and that was a bigger blow to the UK fishing fleet than any EU deal. The 'EU' were also defeated by plucky little Iceland and, when push came to shove, the USA decided to intervene in Iceland's favour.
Quote from: Inspector Knacker on November 16, 2019, 07: AM
. I don't read Mk1's downloads, who does? .....but on this topic I don't need to, I'm in my comfort zone.
There is a word (phrase) for that mind-set:
Post-truth politics (also called post-factual politics and post-reality politics) is a political culture in which debate is framed largely by appeals to emotion disconnected from the details of policy, and by the repeated assertion of talking points to which factual rebuttals are ignored. Welcome to the Trumpian mad-house!
Quote from: Inspector Knacker on November 16, 2019, 07: AM
.but on this topic I don't need to, I'm in my comfort zone.
Dunning Kruger applies
Quote from: mk1 on November 16, 2019, 07: AM
Quote from: Inspector Knacker on November 16, 2019, 07: AM
. I don't read Mk1's downloads, who does? .....but on this topic I don't need to, I'm in my comfort zone.
There is a word (phrase) for that mind-set:
Post-truth politics (also called post-factual politics and post-reality politics) is a political culture in which debate is framed largely by appeals to emotion disconnected from the details of policy, and by the repeated assertion of talking points to which factual rebuttals are ignored.
Welcome to the Trumpian mad-house!
No matey, you.I'm just trying to make sense of your political Magic Roundabout.
Now are you claiming to be the 'Truth' ....? If you say it, and nobody references it against you for your approval it ''tis the Devils work'?
When you were there as opposed to trawling the internet (which is the closest you'll get to fishing) every spare second I'll listen. Do you honestly believe I'd rush to someone on a message board for information when there are proper sources out there which shock horror aren't yours, from multiple sources and viewpoints.
Quote from: DRiddle on November 16, 2019, 07: AM
So you want to know why fishermen might he better off remaining in the EU, MK1 post a very interesting, heavily evidence based article which answers precisely that . . . And you dont read it.
Sorry, can't you understand I need no introduction to EU fishing regs from Mk 1. or anyone else come to that. I can 'read' but was involved in this when you were teething, but not as a fisherman
Maybe that's the reason you voted leave eh?
Did I say I voted for leave? You make assumptions, it is possible to change one's mind after all when you realise some people just cannot accept a vote.
Wasn't it Gove who said "people have had enough of experts?"
Not a follower of the fellow but doubtless Mk1 will have a few titbits for you.
Quote from: mk1 on November 16, 2019, 08: AM
Quote from: Inspector Knacker on November 16, 2019, 07: AM
.but on this topic I don't need to, I'm in my comfort zone.
Dunning Kruger applies
You're a psychiatrist as well now, how do find the hours in the day.
Quote from: Inspector Knacker on November 16, 2019, 10: AM
Now are you claiming to be the 'Truth' ....?
No you are. You are saying you don't need to check anything because you are an 'expert'.
This modern age where experts (or more correctly experts you believe to hold opposing political views) are derided.
Quote from: Inspector Knacker on November 16, 2019, 10: AM
You're a psychiatrist as well now
The Dunning-Kruger effect is nothing to do with Psychiatry but If it walks like a duck and quacks then........... it is a Canard!
Quote from: mk1 on November 16, 2019, 07: AM
It should be remembered that the 3 (in)famous 'Cod Wars' were all won by Iceland and that in the end the UK surrendered because it was discovered that 'we' needed Iceland far more than they needed us. The UK Government sold the fisherman out for a political advantage and that was a bigger blow to the UK fishing fleet than any EU deal. The 'EU' were also defeated by plucky little Iceland and, when push came to shove, the USA decided to intervene in Iceland's favour.
Iceland 'won' because they had the tools for the job. Ice strengthened patrol vessels, far more robust than us sending frigates with much thinner hulls and lots of delicate/ expensive equipment to get damaged. A politicians answer to the problem, like their crazy suggestion to force the Fleet Air Arm to bomb the wreck of the Torres Canyon to burn off the oil, the navy rolled it's eyes and obeyed orders.
Quote from: mk1 on November 16, 2019, 10: AM
Quote from: Inspector Knacker on November 16, 2019, 10: AM
You're a psychiatrist as well now
If it walks like a duck and quacks then it is a Canard.................
If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck in a white coat......
Quote from: Inspector Knacker on November 16, 2019, 10: AM
Iceland 'won' because they had the tools for the job. Ice strengthened patrol vessels, far more robust than us sending frigates with much thinner hulls and lots of delicate/ expensive equipment to get damaged.
The History books say it is because Iceland threatened to leave NATO if the UK did not grant them their fishing rights and that pressure from the US to stop this happening was a critical factor. The population of the whole of Iceland was roughly that of Sunderland and I am sure the RN could rustle up a couple or reinforced vessels from mothballs if required.
Quote from: Inspector Knacker on November 16, 2019, 10: AM
If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck in a white coat......
Even if the Canard wears a white coat the Dunning-Kreuger Effect is still nothing to do with Psychiatry.
Quote from: DRiddle on November 16, 2019, 07: AM
However, in much the same way as people reading "we'll give an extra £350 million a week to the NHS" have been duped by an emotive promise that'll never actually happen, I'm afraid, so have you.
I'm afraid you appear to have duped yourself David, as that's not what the bus said.
Quote from: ReturntoZenda on November 16, 2019, 11: AM
I'm afraid you appear to have duped yourself David, as that's not what the bus said.
Wriggle room for the bus wording but the billboard adds were, pretty clear:
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/924/ZQPSos.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/poZQPSosj)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/923/S7oB5Y.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/pnS7oB5Yj)
Plus if you want to go down the semantics path he never mentioned the bus
Quote from: DRiddle on November 16, 2019, 07: AM
However, in much the same way as people reading "we'll give an extra £350 million a week to the NHS" have been duped by an emotive promise that'll never actually happen, I'm afraid, so have you.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ylgro_HMLT8 (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ylgro_HMLT8)
What else do you think you know more about than me I.K?
Quote from: mk1 on November 16, 2019, 10: AM
Quote from: Inspector Knacker on November 16, 2019, 10: AM
You're a psychiatrist as well now
The Dunning-Kruger effect is nothing to do with Psychiatry but If it walks like a duck and quacks then........... it is a Canard!
I think you'll find psychology and psychiatry are connected O learned one. However you were using it as a sly dig at someone's lack of ability, I wonder who ::)
Quote from: mk1 on November 16, 2019, 10: AM
I am sure the RN could rustle up a couple or reinforced vessels from mothballs if required.
I explained the situation to you but you swan on with your ignorance by referring to 'a couple of reinforced vessels from mothballs if required'. If only was that simple.
Quote from: mk1 on November 16, 2019, 10: AM
Quote from: Inspector Knacker on November 16, 2019, 10: AM
Now are you claiming to be the 'Truth' ....?
No you are. You are saying you don't need to check anything because you are an 'expert'.
No, you are. I only mentioned it in relation to the North Sea so stop fantasising everybody, even you, has to check from several sources.
This modern age where experts (or more correctly experts you believe to hold opposing political views) are derided.
Not derided by me.
Quote from: DRiddle on November 16, 2019, 12: PM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ylgro_HMLT8 (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ylgro_HMLT8)
What else do you think you know more about than me I.K?
If I had his money, you could despise me too. I'd lose no sleep over it.
This thread seems to grow and grow but is nothing more than a dick waving competition.
I can not believe for a second any sane person would seek even the lowest form of political office other than to line their pockets, massage their egos or because they are basically unemployable elsewhere.
Claims they do it because they care and want to make a difference are just lies. If they really cared they could do charity work....Consequently I have no time for ANY politicians.
It seems a few here are quick to pour ridicule on the various political approaches both here and abroad during previous years but do not offer a solution/way ahead
To the two mayor contributors recently....perhaps you would like to enlighten us with your knowledge and visions....
DRiddle you seem to despise everyone who potentially voted leave and/or refuses to declare which way they voted and or explain why. Correct me if I am wrong but you represent PHF- so basically no faith in any of the mainstream parties.
Perhaps you would like to explain how you would like to see things progress in the tin pot chamber of wannabe's know as the Hartlepool Clowncil?
Or perhaps at a national level given your insistent demands that people respond to your demands they declare where they stand...
How would you like to see things develop politically/national after the election?
MK1 as I am sure you will point out to me , I do not have the right to ask,(so I expect a tirade of ridicule/YouTube videos or perhaps a simple refusal) but given your long term interest/knowledge of current national/regional affairs how would you like to see UK run?
Personally when it comes to both regional and national politics , like many. I am passed caring, despise politicians and I probably favour a dictatorship or a Singapore style government .....democracy in UK no longer works and has been broken for a long time..
While I am on a roll in this day and age why can't we have proportional representation based on computer voting?
Paper ballots in this day and age is the equivalent of having a man with a flag walking ahead of cars on motorways......
Quote from: akarjl2 on November 16, 2019, 02: PM
While I am on a roll in this day and age why can't we have proportional representation based on computer voting?
Now this is something I'd like to see. I don't understand why we are not yet even on the pathway towards implementing such a system...
If I may recommend a fictional novel called Daemon by Daniel Suarez. It has themes which show a potential future for the global, national, and local political systems, all of which are based upon technology which is currently available and already very widespread.
Even disregarding the political connotations, it's a bloody good read.
The only trouble with proportional representation is you don't have an MP, so who is your contact as the Party's have their own list and can stick any tosser in Parliament.
Basically it's all about the Party's then.
That said our own MP is a poor advert, but I still want a local representative.
As I said politicians are a waste of space anyway...our current MP isn't even from the town and does nothing.....not even voting in accordance with the wishes of the electorate who put him in place.....when was the last time an MP here actually did anything unless it improved his ratings and the ratings of the party?
I could live without out same as I could live without the clowncil......couldn't manage a hole in their A**
Sorry, I still think you can do with an MP. OK we've had nowt to sing about at national or local level and none of the main party's can not blush except the Lib Dem's, but only because they have had no representation in the town for a while.
A good MP really is an asset, we just haven't seen one for a loooooong time, but when you're living in a rotten borough there's no need to try as an MP, any jester in a suit will fit the bill.
I'm in my early sixties and have no experience of Hartlepool having an MP of any value..does anyone else? You could replace any of them with a website/helpline.
I suppose clowncillers should be dealing with drivel like bins not being collected etc.....then again I have no idea who my local clownciller is as he/she never does anything.
Quote from: Inspector Knacker on November 16, 2019, 05: PM
A good MP
Out of curiosity....seriously name one....even nationally?
Quote from: akarjl2 on November 16, 2019, 02: PM
MK1 as I am sure you will point out to me , I do not have the right to ask,(so I expect a tirade of ridicule/YouTube videos or perhaps a simple refusal) but given your long term interest/knowledge of current national/regional affairs how would you like to see UK run?
It is the nature of things that those in power drift towards corruption. In the end 'they' all start believing that they are doing a greater good so they can lie and cheat for that end. The nature of the voting system means there is always a sizeable number of people in every constituency who have their views ignored.
All politics is corrupt and all politicians corrupt. The best we can do is harry and shame them into some form of decency. That is why we should be on Shane like a fly on merde. Keep on his back so he has to worry about the Forum and not think he can do anything because it is now in his back pocket. I am sure Shane is a decent bloke but even deeply religious people have internally justified their committing evil and disgusting things in the name of their god. Accept that politicians will disappoint you and never ever make the fatal error of believing that just because they share your politics that they should be 'given a chance'.
Quote from: Inspector Knacker on November 16, 2019, 12: PM
I explained the situation to you but you swan on with your ignorance by referring to 'a couple of reinforced vessels from mothballs if required'. If only was that simple.
It was simple. Iceland said they would withdraw from NATO if they did not get their fishing grounds. The USA needed Iceland and leaned on the UK to comply. The UK did their masters bidding.
I was referring to acquiring vessels that didn't exist that you appear to believe could be pulled out of mothballs, but as usual you twist it. No surprise there then.
So now we've debunked the fishing, are there any other reasons being offered from those who voted brexit?
I'm not remotely interested in why you voted to remain. Nonetheless it's none of my business and wouldn't dream of asking you for your reasons. My intentions have changed since 2016 but remain my business which I justify to no one, but are nothing that would excite you.
So immigration then? That's what I thought.
Quote from: DRiddle on November 16, 2019, 08: PM
So now we've debunked the fishing, are there any other reasons being offered from those who voted brexit?
Is this some form of deflection technique.....or simply you fixating on something?
Again I ask
QuoteDRiddle you seem to despise everyone who potentially voted leave and/or refuses to declare which way they voted and or explain why. Correct me if I am wrong but you represent PHF- so basically no faith in any of the mainstream parties.
Perhaps you would like to explain how you would like to see things progress in the tin pot chamber of wannabe's know as the Hartlepool Clowncil?
Or perhaps at a national level given your insistent demands that people respond to your demands they declare where they stand...How would you like to see things develop politically/national after the election?
If you don't have a vision of the future as a local politician that you are prepared to share here I would suggest you have no right to persistently request people on this forum explain their political stance.
Typical politician.......
Quote from: DRiddle on November 16, 2019, 08: PM
So now we've debunked the fishing, are there any other reasons being offered from those who voted brexit?
What is this crusade trying to prove, you ask a question and when someone does reply you then "Debunk It".
Is there any wonder no one has bothered their ar**'s to engage with you on this thread, we all know your are a clever fella, but it seems as though you have to keep proving it to yourself.
Quote from: Inspector Knacker on November 16, 2019, 08: PM
I was referring to acquiring vessels that didn't exist that you appear to believe could be pulled out of mothballs, but as usual you twist it. No surprise there then.
I suggest that if the RN had tried hard enough it could have found the ships
you say were required.
I say the excuse that the RN 'lost'
because could not find the right type of ships is bogus because even if they had used the right type of ships the UK would have had to concede the Icelandic demands.
I say even if every Icelandic vessel was sunk the war would still have been won by Iceland
I say bigger issues than type of ship decided the result and that it was Iceland rather than the EU that destroyed the UK long-distance fishing industry.
No fred, what's happened here is this thread has now developed into a microcosm of the whole forum in recent weeks.
One person (in this case me) says something or asks something and they're met fire and brimstone.
Other people (in this case I.K) does basically the exact same thing and they're actively supported in doing so.
Quote from: DRiddle on November 16, 2019, 09: PM
So immigration then? That's what I thought.
Pathetic, seek help.
Quote from: mk1 on November 16, 2019, 11: PM
Quote from: Inspector Knacker on November 16, 2019, 08: PM
I was referring to acquiring vessels that didn't exist that you appear to believe could be pulled out of mothballs, but as usual you twist it. No surprise there then.
I suggest that if the RN had tried hard enough it could have found the ships you say were required.
I say the excuse that the RN 'lost' because could not find the right type of ships is bogus because even if they had used the right type of ships the UK would have had to concede the Icelandic demands.
I say even if every Icelandic vessel was sunk the war would still have been won by Iceland
I say bigger issues than type of ship decided the result and that it was Iceland rather than the EU that destroyed the UK long-distance fishing industry.
Maybe bigger issues were at play, but that is not the point I raised and you know it. There were no vessels in existence to fulfill that role. Now if it had to a frigate could have sunk one of their vessels no problem but that was never going to happen. So it came down bumper cars at sea, frigates are expensive and not designed for that. I know because I was there, mothballed nautical bumper cars weren't.
Quote from: DRiddle on November 16, 2019, 11: PM
No fred, what's happened here is this thread has now developed into a microcosm of the whole forum in recent weeks.
One person (in this case me) says something or asks something and they're met fire and brimstone.
Other people (in this case I.K) does basically the exact same thing and they're actively supported in doing so.
Bit of a brass neck there. You come on, goading people with the same question day after day after day and no one plays your game. Hardly surprising.
Rather than taking the logical approach and realising no one's biting you plough on. You are obviously looking for key subjects to justify your digging, but fail repeatedly. You are looking for some naive poster to give you sniff of something that will comfort your belief that Brexit is the Devils work. I suspect you expected to get easy pickings and can't comprehend how us thickets on the board wouldn't play along. Simple answer, maybe the reason people want to leave is because their reasons don't match any of yours.....?
Quote from: Inspector Knacker on November 16, 2019, 11: PM
Maybe bigger issues were at play, but that is not the point I raised and you know it.
I know what you want to do but I am not biting.
https://youtu.be/zX1GA197djE?t=86
I simply state that bigger political issues were at play and excuses about the 'wrong type of ship' have no bearing on the outcome. If the UK had decided to pursue its opposition it could have wiped out the Icelandic navy in an afternoon.
I also emphasise that it was Iceland
and not the EU that destroyed the UK fishing fleet.
Quote from: Inspector Knacker on November 16, 2019, 11: PM
Quote from: DRiddle on November 16, 2019, 09: PM
So immigration then? That's what I thought.
Pathetic, seek help.
A simple google search for xxxx riddle hartlepool reveals......he has had help......obviously needs more. I will not be providing any more free therapy sessions and will ignore him in future.
Quote from: mk1 on November 16, 2019, 11: PM
Quote from: Inspector Knacker on November 16, 2019, 11: PM
Maybe bigger issues were at play, but that is not the point I raised and you know it.
I know what you want to do but I am not biting.
https://youtu.be/zX1GA197djE?t=86
I simply state that bigger political issues were at play and excuses about the 'wrong type of ship' have no bearing on the outcome. If the UK had decided to pursue its opposition it could have wiped out the Icelandic navy in an afternoon.
I also emphasise that it was Iceland and not the EU that destroyed the UK fishing fleet.
Your Achilles Heel is your sheer inability to accept a point you cannot understand. Again you twist away from the issue in question even when being there I could confirm NO SUCH VESSELS EVEN EXISTED to perform the role, you wander off to a self reassuring part of the argument I did not-actually disagree with.
I was talking equipment, you were talking politics. Trouble is, you cannot stand to lose any discussion even on a subject as minor as this.
Quote from: Inspector Knacker on November 17, 2019, 07: AM
Your Achilles Heel is your sheer inability to accept a point you cannot understand. Again you twist away from the issue in question
I understand that you do not understand the difference between an opinion and a fact. Self-validation of your opinion does not make it any less of (just another) opinion.
Quote from: Inspector Knacker on November 17, 2019, 07: AM
Trouble is, you cannot stand to lose any discussion even on a subject as minor as this.
Give way to your opponent; thus will you gain the crown of victory
Just bypassing the mental health slurs (which I see admin seem to be ok with?), let's focus on this quote . . . "Simple answer, maybe the reason people want to leave is because their reasons don't match any of yours.....?"
Now, just re read that a couple of times I.K.
Erm . . . I'd kind of figured that, hence my curiousity about what those reasons actually ARE.
We are slowly getting somewhere aren't we? We've progressed from cheaper tampons and the ability to buy noisier hoovers, to fishing rights.
I don't necessary agree that an industry which is less than 0.5% of gdp (oooh there's those evil facts again) is a reason in isolation to risk the other 99.5%, but it is a reason which may have impacted on the way some voted.
What else have you got?
Quote from: DRiddle on November 17, 2019, 07: AM
Just bypassing the mental health slurs (which I see admin seem to be ok with?)
Slurs?
Quote from: akarjl2 on November 17, 2019, 06: AM
Quote from: Inspector Knacker on November 16, 2019, 11: PM
Quote from: DRiddle on November 16, 2019, 09: PM
So immigration then? That's what I thought.
Pathetic, seek help.
A simple google search for xxxx riddle hartlepool reveals......he has had help......obviously needs more. I will not be providing any more free therapy sessions and will ignore him in future.
NOTE to Admin if this is perceived as offensive apologies please delete. BUT the facts are out there.....supported by the incessant repetition of demands for an explanation, already responded to and refused... from a certain person.
Don't offer an apology (of sorts) and then try and justify what you've said. As a big campaigner for mental health awareness, i haven't tried to hide that side of me. Quite the opposite, when I had a bit more of a public profile as a councillor I spoke publicly about it.
I did that to try and stop the sort of senseless comments and misconceptions like the one you've demonstrated.
Quote from: mk1 on November 17, 2019, 07: AM
Self-validation of your opinion does not make it any less of (just another) opinion.
Post of week.....what a great slogan for a t-shirt !
Quote from: DRiddle on November 17, 2019, 08: AM
when I had a bit more of a public profile as a councillor I spoke publicly about it.
I wonder why a public profile is so important to you......and when it fizzles out you run around this forum demanding others explain themselves to you.
You are not the only one who has had to deal with "issues"- some of us deal with it and do not harp on about it publicly . As I said this is the last time I will be responding to your odd approach to "debate" on here.
Attention seeking......typical politician.
Personally I see no further point in this thread, there are 25 pages of comments and the theme throughout has been focused on attacking members who chose not to engage with David and mk1.
Funny, I see it differently.
If you don't want to engage with someone on the internet (on a political discussion forum of all places), there is of course the option of NOT replying.
Has that possibility escaped the attention of members who apparently didn't want to engage with MK1 or myself . . . Yet continued to do so?
I agree with Fred, it's becoming tedious.
Let's move on....
Quote from: The Great Dictator on November 17, 2019, 11: AM
I agree with Fred, it's becoming tedious.
Let's move on....
Yea be better if thread was locked- no value here.
No it wouldn't. There's no reason to lock it. As I've said, if people don't want to participate in this thread it's simple, don't.
Start your own threads if you think you have a topic worth discussing.
'Lock the thread', 'suspend the forum during the election' etc, it's not North Korea.
With your one question crusade you are making the board unreadable. Or was that the intention all along?
Remind me again who suggested suspending the whole forum?
Quote from: DRiddle on November 17, 2019, 09: AM
If you don't want to engage with someone on the internet (on a political discussion forum of all places), there is of course the option of NOT replying.
Has that possibility escaped the attention of members who apparently didn't want to engage with MK1 or myself . . . Yet continued to do so?
Virtually every poster from very early on in this thread intimated that they didn't want to answer your repeated questions, but that had no effect, you intimated poster were anti immigration or poorly educated, amongst other things.
David, you have badgered every poster at some point or other and truth be told you became offensive to some, I readily agree with you on 1 crucial point however,
"if people don't want to participate in this thread it's simple, don't".
I'm a fervent believer in freedom of expression and "locking the thread or closing down the forum for the election" was obviously a tongue in cheek retort, but then again I have a sense of humour.
As I said, nobody HAD to respond. You didn't HAVE to respond Fred, you chose to. In the same I chose to ask people why they voted leave.
Quote from: Inspector Knacker on November 17, 2019, 12: PM
With your one question crusade you are making the board unreadable. Or was that the intention all along?
Bollocks. It created more posts in a week than in the previous month. Too many snowflakes here not used to being challenged.
Quote from: mk1 on November 17, 2019, 03: PM
snowflakes
Actor George Takei extended the metaphor to emphasize the power of snowflakes, saying: "The thing about 'snowflakes' is this: They are beautiful and unique, but in large numbers become an unstoppable avalanche that will bury you....
Just saying ;)
Quote from: akarjl2 on November 17, 2019, 03: PM
Quote from: mk1 on November 17, 2019, 03: PM
snowflakes
Actor George Takei extended the metaphor to emphasize the power of snowflakes, saying: "The thing about 'snowflakes' is this: They are beautiful and unique, but in large numbers become an unstoppable avalanche that will bury you....
The more the merrier. A blank canvas for me write my name in big steaming yellow letters.
Quote from: mk1 on November 17, 2019, 04: PM
Quote from: akarjl2 on November 17, 2019, 03: PM
Quote from: mk1 on November 17, 2019, 03: PM
snowflakes
Actor George Takei extended the metaphor to emphasize the power of snowflakes, saying: "The thing about 'snowflakes' is this: They are beautiful and unique, but in large numbers become an unstoppable avalanche that will bury you....
The more the merrier. A blank canvas for me write my name in big steaming yellow letters.
Surely big steaming brown letters..?
Quote from: mk1 on November 17, 2019, 03: PM
Quote from: Inspector Knacker on November 17, 2019, 12: PM
Too many snowflakes here not used to being challenged.
....from the daddy of all snowflakes, 'Mr don't say that or I'll be forced to drown you in unfunny clips and my indisputable facts'.
Quotetruth be told you became offensive to some
No i didn't. I've said that in my experience people who WON'T disclose their reasons for voting leave either CAN'T, or are unwilling to admit their decision centers around immigration. How can that be offensive? It represents and accurate reflection of MY experience when talking with Brexit voters. Initially they don't disclose their reasons, then, with a bit of probing you establish they either can't or that their view is tied to immigration.
I didn't say that was the case with EVERY brexit voter, i stated it's my experience with them, in the situation i've outlined?
How can MY experience of a situation possibly offend OTHER people? It's my experience, no one else's.
Quote from: DRiddle on November 17, 2019, 05: PM
Quotetruth be told you became offensive to some
No i didn't. I've said that in my experience people who WON'T disclose their reasons for voting leave either CAN'T, or are unwilling to admit their decision centers around immigration. How can that be offensive? It represents and accurate reflection of MY experience when talking with Brexit voters. Initially they don't disclose their reasons, then, with a bit of probing you establish they either can't or that their view is tied to immigration.
I didn't say that was the case with EVERY brexit voter, i stated it's my experience with them, in the situation i've outlined?
How can MY experience of a situation possibly offend OTHER people? It's my experience, no one else's.
Whatever
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHfx9LXzxpw&list=RDEHfx9LXzxpw&start_radio=1#t=0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHfx9LXzxpw&list=RDEHfx9LXzxpw&start_radio=1#t=0)
Roll up, roll up and debate Brexit with David.....you could just as equally debate with a wooden gate post for all the good it would do you.
right i will tell you all my reasons for voting to leave
because i never agreed with joining the shower in the first place
we owned half the world and we didnt need some bunch of tin pot dictators in brussels telling us how to do it
now make of it what you fr**gin well will thats my opinion :o
yer like a bunch of kids in a playground trying to out do one another >:(
When a few regular posters are spending time "howling at the moon" on this forum (26 pages worth so far) the Facebook version seems to be building gradually. Perhaps there is only room for one Hartlepool Post site for comments?
Things ain't what they used to be, but hey ho crack on for another 26 pages if you must.
Quote from: Truthache on November 17, 2019, 10: PM
When a few regular posters are spending time "howling at the moon" on this forum (26 pages worth so far) the Facebook version seems to be building gradually. Perhaps there is only room for one Hartlepool Post site for comments?
The Facebook page is full of people howling at the moon.
Quote from: Truthache on November 17, 2019, 10: PM
When a few regular posters are spending time "howling at the moon" on this forum (26 pages worth so far) the Facebook version seems to be building gradually. Perhaps there is only room for one Hartlepool Post site for comments?
Things ain't what they used to be, but hey ho crack on for another 26 pages if you must.
With all due respect, if you don't like the topic, don't read it. No one's twisting your arm to.
Just going back to this, I made a statement on this thread what while I fully accept not everyone who voted for brexit is racist, I do believe that probably everyone who IS racist voted for brexit.
My guess is it's only a matter of time before someone's mask slips and the more insidious side of at least one member of the local Brexit party is revealed.
Same old nasty toxic insinuations on a wind up. No one's bitten yet and none will. Popped over here under orders or just doing a bit of freelance work on the same old repetitive topic....?
I am hearing whispers about just such an event.
Quote from: mk1 on December 06, 2019, 10: PM
I am hearing whispers about just such an event.
When you start hearing whispers, it's best you make an appointment, especially now you've elevated yourself to being God's advisor.
Quote from: DRiddle on December 06, 2019, 10: PM
Just going back to this, I made a statement on this thread what while I fully accept not everyone who voted for brexit is racist, I do believe that probably everyone who IS racist voted for brexit.
This is so ironic, I'd heard that little line before and wondered where, then the penny dropped. You see David, ........ you have paraphrased .....Roy Chubby Brown!!
Oh dear, do you have a shared political philosophy ?...... and the box sets? Great intellects align eh.😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😱 Oh the irony.
All I'm saying is, back when the Brexit Party was called UKIP, the party regularly made the news for the 'personal views' of several of its members. Rozanne Duncan is just one of many, MANY examples I could point to.
I've always been of the opinion the 'natural political home' for people with views like that (given the demise of UKIP and the BNP) is now the Brexit party.
That does NOT mean I'm saying everyone associated with the Brexit Party is racist.
However, if a councillor within HBC was outed as a racist (perhaps next week for example) I think it's a safe bet which party said councillor would represent.
If such a scenario were the play out next week, does the Christian leader of the local Brexit Party take action?
Or does he let it slide in order to protect a slim majority.
Next week - nobody cares= we will be leaving EU.
Quote from: DRiddle on December 07, 2019, 07: AM
I've always been of the opinion the 'natural political home' for people with views like that (given the demise of UKIP and the BNP) is now the Brexit party.
That does NOT mean I'm saying everyone associated with the Brexit Party is racist.
However, if a councillor within HBC was outed as a racist (perhaps next week for example) I think it's a safe bet which party said councillor would represent.
So it couldn't possibly be Labour, could it? Tell that to the many Jewish people, even ones who are members of the Labour Party.
Quote from: DRiddle on December 07, 2019, 07: AM
All I'm saying is, back when the Brexit Party was called UKIP, the party regularly made the news for the 'personal views' of several of its members. Rozanne Duncan is just one of many, MANY examples I could point to.
UKIP is a rump minority, but your obsession with it drives you on believing it's ghost can jump into other Party's.
I've always been of the opinion the 'natural political home' for people with views like that (given the demise of UKIP and the BNP) is now the Brexit party.
You have a deluded talent for assuming something them stating it as fact because you assume it.
That does NOT mean I'm saying everyone associated with the Brexit Party is racist.
Just what does it mean, you dodge and swerve but never actually say anything of consequence. Unadulterated waffle.
However, if a councillor within HBC was outed as a racist (perhaps next week for example) I think it's a safe bet which party said councillor would represent.
So are you saying you're going 'out' someone ? Sounds like desperation, the nuclear option? Let's see eh?
If it does happen, how long had it been known and I wonder why next week.Doh!
Quote from: Johnny Bongo on December 07, 2019, 11: AM
So it couldn't possibly be Labour, could it? Tell that to the many Jewish people, even ones who are members of the Labour Party.
Good point you really would not want to be a Jewish person facing a Corbyn led government. If you are an Irish separatist or a Muslim ( actually anyone involved with Hamas) then you have nowt to worry about. Bloody disgrace really in this day and age many of us here are accused of being racists and yet the so called Labour Party is rife with anti semitism.
Remember the scene on Das Boot after the final depth charge attack on the U boat and it's almost destroyed. The lights fading , multiple leaks in the pressure hull, the crew running about trying to staunch the flow of water and the strain on the hull as the vessel exceeds it's safe diving depth and starts creaking ominously as the crew sit despondently waiting waiting for the end.
Why does it remind me of local Labour HQ.....?
Well the Germans saved themselves, but they were competent, whereas.....
Cue YouTube clip from ...🗿🛣
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img921/1098/txOrS9.png)
It's Mike Hill don't answer the door!
😂😂😂😂😂Classic.
Quote from: DRiddle on December 07, 2019, 07: AM
However, if a councillor within HBC was outed as a racist (perhaps next week for example) I think it's a safe bet which party said councillor would represent.
If such a scenario were the play out next week, does the Christian leader of the local Brexit Party take action?
Lot of 'if's' there. Playing games again? What's the relevance of being a 'Christian leader', got to do with anything.
Quote from: Inspector Knacker on December 07, 2019, 11: AM
UKIP is a rump minority,
As opposed the The Brexit Party which has a stunning 3% in the current polls!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94NFQz276g8
Thought you had no horse in the race.....?
The Hartlepool labour party must be worried....I've just got the third election propaganda leaflet through the door; this one with the pics of Trump, Johnson and Tice and the words...For the people not the privileged few....whose side are you on? The usual empty promises...just like all the other parties really! But this leaflet really takes the p!$$, imo.
Yeah 3 of the wooden mans flyers posted through the door, he is obviously counting on the 'me dad voted labour' mentality on the Manor, not a sign of him or his pixies around here.
I really wish all political leaflets were on soft matt paper, at least they would come in useful for something.
Quote from: fred c on December 07, 2019, 07: PM
I really wish all political leaflets were on soft matt paper, at least they would come in useful for something.
Oh bugger!
Shane just offered me a free lifetimes supply of toilet paper. Of course I said yes but have since found out it is these old flyers.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/922/CuQr0u.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/pmCuQr0uj)
If they are sippy and shiny ('Tice like'?) then I have been done up like a UKIPPER!
Have had leaflets from Andy Hagon, Kevin Cranney & Richard Tice - nothing from Mr Hill, however (Headland & Harbour ward area).
Quote from: Inspector Knacker on December 07, 2019, 05: PM
What's the relevance of being a 'Christian leader', got to do with anything.
I think it is a dig at this idiotic letter which was posted to all local newspapers by the founder of UKIP in Hartlepool and a man who was a friend of Shane:
Dear Sirs,
I am certain that the good people of Hartlepool who buy their weekly lottery ticket will be 'overjoyed' at the news that a blatantly RACIST organisation in the town is receiving a massive funding injection from the Big Lottery Fund - £177,000 to be precise. (See Article in Hartlepool Mail dated 17 August, "£273,000 boost for ethnic project").
According to the article the stated function of The Salaam Centre in Murray Street is "to provide a range of services to black and ethnic minority communities across Hartlepool". If this 'mission statement' isn't anything other than overtly racist, and therefore in clear breach of the law, then I don't know what is?
In addition to this sum from the BLF (your money) The Salaam Centre is also said to be receiving £96,000 (making £273,000 in all), from 'The Tudor Trust', an organisation of which I know absolutely nothing – perhaps the Editor will enlighten us?
In the 'Mail' story we also learn that Hartlepool New Deal for Communities "welcomes" this largesse. Perhaps HNDC Director, Malcolm Walker will explain to us just how this centre, based on clearly racist objectives, will "contribute to the town's regeneration", as he claims – frankly, I'm at a loss to see any benefit to the townspeople of Hartlepool in general?
Of course if an application were to be submitted to the BLF or The Tudor Trust by an organisation seeking, "to provide a range of services to White, Christian people" we are all under no illusion as to the response this would receive. In the resultant wild hysteria terms such as 'fascists', racists, xenophobes etc would abound, and there would be calls for prosecution under anti - discrimination legislation.
UKIP will always oppose blind, unthinking racism, but I'm sure many will understand how extremist attitudes form when there are continued examples of 'reverse discrimination', as this story vividly demonstrates, and the majority white population are made to feel inferior in their own country.
This situation is exacerbated when the entire force of the law is weighted against the majority population and in favour of ethnic and religious minorities. What we have in Britain now is a breeding ground for extremism - a dangerous situation caused entirely by the left-wing liberal elite. :
You'd think after six or seven years of me posting on this forum, you'd have become more familiar with my modus operandi.
This is how it works. I allude to something which is definitely happening or is definitely the case already. Certain members on here scoff, mock, point the finger and accuse me of having a 'dodgy crystal ball' or whatever.
A few days tick by and what I was alluding to happens.
People then say "Ah but, blah blah blah" . . .
Ah well, Groundhog Day will arrive via channel 4 probably on Monday. ;-)
You are a better man than I am Gunga Din. I would have let the buggers chunter on and dig themselves in deeper. It they want to make bigger arses of themselves then don't get in the way.................
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/921/vm3gSW.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/plvm3gSWj)
You two were rumbled weeks ago. Plants.
Quote from: DRiddle on December 07, 2019, 08: PM
You'd think after six or seven years of me posting on this forum, you'd have become more familiar with my modus operandi.
Why would we be familiar with anything you do. You're not that important. As for your 'modus operandi' try pruning it.
This is how it works. I allude to something which is definitely happening or is definitely the case already. Certain members on here scoff, mock, point the finger and accuse me of having a 'dodgy crystal ball' or whatever.
I think you over estimate your own importance.
A few days tick by and what I was alluding to happens.
Abracadabra.
People then say "Ah but, blah blah blah" . . .
You'll get excited....
Ah well, Groundhog Day will arrive via channel 4 probably on Monday. ;-)
And you'll be carried shoulder high by.......?
Quote from: Inspector Knacker on December 07, 2019, 12: PM
the strain on the hull as the vessel exceeds it's safe diving depth.........
Yes I remember. I doubt it was sinking as fast as The Brexit Party though. That dive is obviously terminal.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/921/x6P44n.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/plx6P44nj)
Excited...?
Excellent, you must feel like the final week in the Bunker. I'm just soooooo glad you're putting a brave face on. Don't go up top, stay in and avoid reality.
Quote from: mk1 on December 07, 2019, 08: PM
Dear Sirs,
"to provide a range of services to black and ethnic minority communities across Hartlepool". If this 'mission statement' isn't anything other than overtly racist, and therefore in clear breach of the law, then I don't know what is?
vs
Quote"to provide a range of services to White, Christian people" we are all under no illusion as to the response this would receive. What we have in Britain now is a breeding ground for extremism - a dangerous situation caused entirely by the left-wing liberal elite.
I have never seen this before but I agree with the sentiment and have done for years.....pause for a scramble of video links...old flyers.....Enoc Powel comparisons etc.....
1. People confuse religion with facts - religion is a
belief system= a dilusion.
2. Islam is not a colour- it is a religion so why is a wad of money getting handed over to a Islamic centre?
3. For years equality has been sought , rightly so.....but those seeking equality want to be treated not just equally but different.....consider
DO a search in google for "association of black uk".....
Why is it ok to have a national Black Police Association?
Black and Ethnic Minority Doctors Forum
BBC Radio 1Xtra described as a black music radio channel
If equality is sought then stop demanding to have exclusive organisations that exclude none blacks/asians...imagine setting up an association of white police officers?
Back in the very early 80's after police forces were expected to encourage recruitment form ethnic minorities Cleveland Police decided to lower the educational standard for applicants from ethnic communities.......
Many rank and file police officers said this was discriminatory against anyone who was not from an ethic minority=they were advised this was racist.
Large pots of money should not be handed over to belief groups (aka religious groups). Insular secretive religious centres seem to receive hand outs left right and centre.
Money should be handed over to groups that help all like Shelter,Samaritans etc.....not a group promoting a a specific set of beliefs. This ties in exactly with my views regarding overseas aid being stopped.
Equality should mean equality......treat everyone the same.
Stop demanding equality and seeking preferential treatment.
Boom accusations of being racist.......videos........images to save certain members time I couldn't care less about how much money the churches have received etc...they are all delusional .
Grenade thrown......
Incoming.......
Quote from: Inspector Knacker on December 07, 2019, 08: PM
Excellent, you must feel like the final week in the Bunker.
I am on a roll here.
Keep 'em coming.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJWUmSbt0Ms
If Hill doesn't win next week R2D2 and C3PO will spontaneously combust, the glow in the sky will be seen for miles away.
Could such a phenomenon be mistaken for the demise of the divine right of the Sun King(s)?
They're way above mere Sun Kings. Some say their wish is to die in their own arms.
Quote from: Lucy Lass-Tick on December 07, 2019, 09: PM
Could such a phenomenon be mistaken for the demise of the divine right of the Sun King(s)...........
'Le roi soleil' (singular) if you don't mind. I expect my full title at all times.
Quote from: Inspector Knacker on December 07, 2019, 09: PM
They're way above mere Sun Kings.
Is that the same sun kings as your earlier sunking U-Boat?
Lots of chuntering on here about what racism ISN'T.
So what IS racism?
Surely it's discriminating against people based purely and simply on their ethnicity?
Right?
Surely, all politics aside, we're in agreement that's wrong?
Right?
Quote from: Inspector Knacker on December 07, 2019, 09: PM
their wish is to die in their own arms............
I prefer the arms of Kali.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/922/MICTlW.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/pmMICTlWj)
I have heard of a coat of arms before but that is the first skirt of arms I have ever seen.
For those who have an aversion to dusky-skinned maidens try Mary's Arms
https://youtu.be/WpT7hbVWJDQ?t=16
Quote from: DRiddle on December 07, 2019, 09: PM
Lots of chuntering on here about what racism ISN'T.
So what IS racism?
Surely it's discriminating against people based purely and simply on their ethnicity?
Right?
Surely, all politics aside, we're in agreement that's wrong?
Right?
Checked your float yet David, or realised what's on the line and turned a blind eye....?
Looks like she's got your head on a plate there. I'm warming to her.
Quote from: akarjl2 on December 07, 2019, 08: PM
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/921/1iz2kG.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/pl1iz2kGj)
of black uk"..... Black Police Association.........Black and Ethnic Minority Doctors Forum........ black music radio channel......... white police officers?......
I guess The Catholic Club is on your (s)hit list.
As for the ..................
https://youtu.be/CS9OO0S5w2k?t=39
Love how you keep communicating by YouTube, send you a daft post and you search for something 'funny',unaware no one bothers even reading them.
Why not try to stop being YouTube dependent, it could change your life.
Quote from: mk1 on December 07, 2019, 09: PM
Quote from: Inspector Knacker on December 07, 2019, 09: PM
their wish is to die in their own arms............
I prefer the arms of Kali.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/922/MICTlW.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/pmMICTlWj)
I have heard of a coat of arms before but that is the first skirt of arms I have ever seen.
For those who have an aversion to dusky-skinned maidens try Mary's Arms
https://youtu.be/WpT7hbVWJDQ?t=16
In these isles, might the Morrigan/Cailleach be more anthropologically appropriate ... or does that constitute some sort of European ideology ?
Quote from: akarjl2 on December 07, 2019, 08: PM
Quote from: mk1 on December 07, 2019, 08: PM
Dear Sirs,
"to provide a range of services to black and ethnic minority communities across Hartlepool". If this 'mission statement' isn't anything other than overtly racist, and therefore in clear breach of the law, then I don't know what is?
vs
Quote"to provide a range of services to White, Christian people" we are all under no illusion as to the response this would receive. What we have in Britain now is a breeding ground for extremism - a dangerous situation caused entirely by the left-wing liberal elite.
seen this before but I agree with the sentiment and have done for years.....pause for a scramble of video links...old flyers.....Enoc Powel comparisons etc.....
1. People confuse religion with facts - religion is a belief system= a dilusion.
2. Islam is not a colour- it is a religion so why is a wad of money getting handed over to a Islamic centre?
3. For years equality has been sought , rightly so.....but those seeking equality want to be treated not just equally but different.....consider
DO a search in google for "association of black uk".....
Why is it ok to have a national Black Police Association?
Black and Ethnic Minority Doctors Forum
BBC Radio 1Xtra described as a black music radio channel
If equality is sought then stop demanding to have exclusive organisations that exclude none blacks/asians...imagine setting up an association of white police officers?
Back in the very early 80's after police forces were expected to encourage recruitment form ethnic minorities Cleveland Police decided to lower the educational standard for applicants from ethnic communities.......
Many rank and file police officers said this was discriminatory against anyone who was not from an ethic minority=they were advised this was racist.
Large pots of money should not be handed over to belief groups (aka religious groups). Insular secretive religious centres seem to receive hand outs left right and centre.
Money should be handed over to groups that help all like Shelter,Samaritans etc.....not a group promoting a a specific set of beliefs. This ties in exactly with my views regarding overseas aid being stopped.
Equality should mean equality......treat everyone the same.
Stop demanding equality and seeking preferential treatment.
Boom accusations of being racist.......videos........images to save certain members time I couldn't care less about how much money the churches have received etc...they are all delusional .
Grenade thrown......
Incoming.......
Excellent post akarjl2, my sentiments exactly.
Quote from: mk1 on December 07, 2019, 09: PM
I guess The Catholic Club is on your (s)hit list.
Yes
Father Douglas won't know where it's at.
Quote from: Johnny Bongo on December 07, 2019, 10: PM
Excellent post akarjl2, my sentiments exactly.
So two posters agree with the sentiments of a man who is a confirmed racist and Nazi supporter. A man who was a member of a group that was actively firebombing synagogues and was on first name terms with the likes of Colin Jordan and fondly remembered on extreme right-wing sites as a 'good little fighter' for his violent abilities. It two people want to cast their lot in with him then fine by me.
If only they had been around when this racist was in his prime they could have joined him on his protests where he proudly carried the banner 'Keep Rhodesia White' (photo can be supplied if challenged).
I am sure this bloke thought he was not a racist either
https://youtu.be/ybqLRF1zFUI?t=163
I assure you the above is not a parody. It is a real politician who thinks he is normal.
Quote from: Inspector Knacker on December 07, 2019, 10: PM
Father Douglas won't know where it's at.
Big scandal up there a few years back. Someone got a Nun pregnant when she dressed up as an altar boy!
Quote from: mk1 on December 08, 2019, 03: AM
Quote from: Johnny Bongo on December 07, 2019, 10: PM
Excellent post akarjl2, my sentiments exactly.
So two posters agree with the sentiments of a man who is a confirmed racist and Nazi supporter. A man who was a member of a group that was actively firebombing synagogues and was on first name terms with the likes of Colin Jordan and fondly remembered on extreme right-wing sites as a 'good little fighter' for his violent abilities. It two people want to cast their lot in with him then fine by me.
If only they had been around when this racist was in his prime they could have joined him on his protests where he proudly carried the banner 'Keep Rhodesia White' (photo can be supplied if challenged).
I am sure this bloke thought he was not a racist either
https://youtu.be/ybqLRF1zFUI?t=163
I assure you the above is not a parody. It is a real politician who thinks he is normal.
mmmm so applying same logic Nelson Mandela should have got the rope?
What specifically ido you take issue wing regarding...
Quote from: Johnny Bongo on December 07, 2019, 10: PM
Quote from: akarjl2 on December 07, 2019, 08: PM
Quote from: mk1 on December 07, 2019, 08: PM
Dear Sirs,
"to provide a range of services to black and ethnic minority communities across Hartlepool". If this 'mission statement' isn't anything other than overtly racist, and therefore in clear breach of the law, then I don't know what is?
vs
Quote"to provide a range of services to White, Christian people" we are all under no illusion as to the response this would receive. What we have in Britain now is a breeding ground for extremism - a dangerous situation caused entirely by the left-wing liberal elite.
seeking preferential treatment because of race colour or religion is wrong..but legal in uk.
Quote from: mk1 on December 08, 2019, 03: AM
Quote from: Inspector Knacker on December 07, 2019, 10: PM
Father Douglas won't know where it's at.
Big scandal up there a few years back. Someone got a Nun pregnant when she dressed up as an altar boy!
What are you prattling on about, that was a typo for Dougal, yet you get some tenuous link, you must make it up as you go along. L
Quote from: mk1 on December 08, 2019, 03: AM
Quote from: Johnny Bongo on December 07, 2019, 10: PM
Excellent post akarjl2, my sentiments exactly.
So two posters agree with the sentiments of a man who is a confirmed racist and Nazi supporter. A man who was a member of a group that was actively firebombing synagogues and was on first name terms with the likes of Colin Jordan and fondly remembered on extreme right-wing sites as a 'good little fighter' for his violent abilities. It two people want to cast their lot in with him then fine by me.
If only they had been around when this racist was in his prime they could have joined him on his protests where he proudly carried the banner 'Keep Rhodesia White' (photo can be supplied if challenged).
I am sure this bloke thought he was not a racist either
https://youtu.be/ybqLRF1zFUI?t=163
I assure you the above is not a parody. It is a real politician who thinks he is normal.
Quote from: Johnny Bongo on December 07, 2019, 10: PM
Quote from: akarjl2 on December 07, 2019, 08: PM
Boom accusations of being racist.......videos........images to save certain members time I couldn't care less about how much money the churches have received etc...they are all delusional .
Grenade thrown......
Incoming.......
Excellent post akarjl2, my sentiments exactly.
.....yep MK1 reliable as ever =I'm a racist because I believe in equality not preferential treatment for minority groups- go figure that one out lol.
At least he's consistent - fixated true but consistent in arguing against views of everyone else.
Take no notice, you say black, he'll say white and what he can't cope with (facts) he'll ignore and post some nonsense off YouTube to deflect.
Whatever you post he will take the opposite view, because that's what he does, he serves no other purpose. His deep joy in life is to put himself above what he regards as the thick crowd and oppose them.
He has no real convictions just a need to be different...or awkward as most people call it. I imagine he finds it 'funny' and builds up a sense of self satisfaction, but it's a very shallow pool he swims in.
Quote from: DRiddle on December 06, 2019, 10: PM
My guess is it's only a matter of time before someone's mask slips and the more insidious side of at least one member of the local Brexit party is revealed.
Quote from: mk1 on December 06, 2019, 10: PM
I am hearing whispers about just such an event.
Quote from: Inspector Knacker on December 07, 2019, 11: AM
Quote from: DRiddle on December 07, 2019, 07: AM
All I'm saying is, back when the Brexit Party was called UKIP, the party regularly made the news for the 'personal views' of several of its members. Rozanne Duncan is just one of many, MANY examples I could point to.
UKIP is a rump minority, but your obsession with it drives you on believing it's ghost can jump into other Party's.
I've always been of the opinion the 'natural political home' for people with views like that (given the demise of UKIP and the BNP) is now the Brexit party.
You have a deluded talent for assuming something them stating it as fact because you assume it.
That does NOT mean I'm saying everyone associated with the Brexit Party is racist.
Just what does it mean, you dodge and swerve but never actually say anything of consequence. Unadulterated waffle.
However, if a councillor within HBC was outed as a racist (perhaps next week for example) I think it's a safe bet which party said councillor would represent.
So are you saying you're going 'out' someone ? Sounds like desperation, the nuclear option? Let's see eh?
If it does happen, how long had it been known and I wonder why next week.Doh!
Quote from: DRiddle on December 07, 2019, 08: PM
You'd think after six or seven years of me posting on this forum, you'd have become more familiar with my modus operandi.
This is how it works. I allude to something which is definitely happening or is definitely the case already. Certain members on here scoff, mock, point the finger and accuse me of having a 'dodgy crystal ball' or whatever.
A few days tick by and what I was alluding to happens.
People then say "Ah but, blah blah blah" . . .
Ah well, Groundhog Day will arrive via channel 4 probably on Monday. ;-)
So glad you are finding it easy to dismiss this IK but you have been on the board for long enough to know if DR gets whiff of something he will normally throw out breadcrumbs here and then the story will actually drop a little later. Just because the views on here have (imo) now become extremely polarised to the point of out and out hatred does not mean that he should be so blatantly and obviously ignored because it looks like it will involve a party that you have thrown your lot in with, you will start shouting 'Fake news' soon I guess if something does come out. I will be waiting to see what hits.
For me personally after all that has happened in this town over the last few years I find myself in a position that I cannot get even close to 100% behind any party running in the upcoming GE so I just don't know where to put my X this coming Thu. One thing people have been saying is that you should then vote for the lesser of all the evils, I may do that but one thing I will never be going for is Farages latest circus act because all he has ever pushed is fear and lies, he is the countries biggest bestest con man.
Quote from: Tee_Ess_25er on December 08, 2019, 10: AM
For me personally after all that has happened in this town over the last few years I find myself in a position that I cannot get even close to 100% behind any party running in the upcoming GE so I just don't know where to put my X this coming Thu. One thing people have been saying is that you should then vote for the lesser of all the evils
Same here
This has been a really low effort election. I have not had a single candidate show his face on our estate . I've had once leaflet from the village idiot representing Labour- perhaps significant as they think they will get in by default. Nothing from anyone else.
I think:
Corbyn is a liar, antisemitic and a dangerous supporter of violent groups such as Hamas an IRA......If Kea Stammer was leader different story
Swinson is a child and clueless who wants to ignore the wishes of the majority
Tice - so what WILL he do when we have left EU and he is maybe the only Brexit Party MP= waste of space
Johnson a lying buffoon.....with a strange concept of honour
So I who gets my vote.......
Reality it is a choice between Labour and Conservative
I really think Labour are basically mad socialists/communists and fundamentally dangerous who will place UK at risk from an economic and security view point.I am not supporting a man who seems to revel in the company of people who wanted/want to kill us. I toyed with binning my polling card but in my own little way I want to send a message to labour to say both locally and nationally they are finished.
= Lessor of all evils
Conservatives
I really wish MK1 had stood as an independent - he knows all the answers ;)
Quote from: Tee_Ess_25er on December 08, 2019, 10: AM
So glad you are finding it easy to dismiss this IK
No problem for me as I never regarded him as the Messiah some folk do.
....but you have been on the board for long enough to know if DR gets whiff of something he will normally throw out breadcrumbs here and then the story will actually drop a little later.
And there's the problem, I can't be doing with his George Smiley/ Secret Squirrel theatrics, if he has knowledge of any information of wrongdoing, why is it being held back, for political gain?
Just because the views on here have (imo) now become extremely polarised to the point of out and out hatred does not mean that he should be so blatantly and obviously ignored
How do you take seriously someone comiing on the board asking the same question day after day looking for ''racists'.to debate with. I call that odd and offensive. You may think he descended from the clouds on a shaft of divine sunlight, I don't, he's just a local politician..
because it looks like it will involve a party that you have thrown your lot in with, you will start shouting 'Fake news' soon I guess if something does come out. I will be waiting to see what hits.
I'm not in a Party never have been and never will be, I JUST WANT THE MOST USELESS MP WE'VE EVER HAD OUT AND WHOEVER I THINK CAN DO THAT WILL GET MY SUPPORT....AND THERE MY SUPPORT WILL END! I'm called a floating voter, we decide elections, not the 'I've always voted for......
For me personally after all that has happened in this town over the last few years I find myself in a position that I cannot get even close to 100% behind any party running in the upcoming GE so I just don't know where to put my X this coming Thu. One thing people have been saying is that you should then vote for the lesser of all the evils, I may do that but one thing I will never be going for is Farages latest circus act because all he has ever pushed is fear and lies, he is the countries biggest bestest con man.
So you're happy with Mike eh? Because that's what you're gonna get then. You'll have made David's day.
Quote from: Tee_Ess_25er on December 08, 2019, 10: AM
Just because the views on here have (imo) now become extremely polarised to the point of out and out hatred..............
Indeed. It seems that if you point out Shanes duplicity the fruitcakes go into a complete meltdown.
What was once condemned as Labour lies and duplicity is now lauded as sound tactics.
It appears many where lying when for the last decade they said they were against Labour corruption and they were really
just Labour-phobic and lacking the courage to come out and admit it.
They are not against lies and corruption when their politicians practise it.
Quote from: Inspector Knacker on December 08, 2019, 12: PM
How do you take seriously someone comiing on the board asking the same question day after day looking for ''racists'.to debate with. I call that odd and offensive. You may think he descended from the clouds on a shaft of divine sunlight, I don't, he's just a local politician..
Actually he is a failed EX politician.
Quote from: mk1 on December 08, 2019, 12: PM
Quote from: Tee_Ess_25er on December 08, 2019, 10: AM
Just because the views on here have (imo) now become extremely polarised to the point of out and out hatred..............
Indeed. It seems that if you point out Shanes duplicity the fruitcakes go into a complete meltdown.
Define fruitcake? All politicians? Have to agree with you there.
Anyone who voted for brexit? Well that is just an opinion.
.....or do you mean anyone who's bored by your "the records stuck" rhetoric? Probably a large proportion of forum members?
Quote from: Inspector Knacker on December 08, 2019, 12: PM
I can't be doing with his George Smiley/ Secret Squirrel theatrics, if he has knowledge of any information of wrongdoing, why is it being held back, for political gain?[/b]
Used to happen all the time in Steve's day. In fact a good number of his discoveries never saw the light of day because if you can not 100% prove something it can come back to bite you. I know for a fact that when a very high profile local policeman was being investigated by the Sunday Papers about Corruption they found evidence of an affair (they photographed the pair together at local gyms and pubs) but as they lacked
100% proof they did not use that information. Same with Steve. Lots of TV channels were given info about The SCABs that they started to investigate but that they felt they could not use because of the proof hurdle.
What is happening here is Knicky-Knack trying to find out how serious the damage is and under the delusion he can demand an answer in order to 'warn' the racist Party. They probably already know and are, as we speak, working upa defence. Why not email Shane and ask what he knows about it?
Here is a clue. It is not anti-Jewish racism.
Quote from: akarjl2 on December 08, 2019, 12: PM
Define fruitcake?
It is a
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/922/wHDByQ.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/pmwHDByQj)
Quote from: mk1 on December 08, 2019, 01: PM
What is happening here is Knicky-Knack trying to find out how serious the damage is and under the delusion he can demand an answer in order to 'warn' the racist Party.
Wrong as usual, I have never been, are or will be a member of any party. So, theoretically, this warning to the 'racist party, what would I warn them about as I know nothing at all. So I assume it's gonna be on here, but are you so dumb as not to realise everyone would know anyway if that was the case.You don't think things through do you.
They probably already know and are, as we speak, working upa defence. Why not email Shane and ask what he knows about it?
Know what? I don't do telepathy or mind-reading and nothing's appeared on here so work that one out. As for e-mailing Shane why when I don't know the bloke, anyway you're the one with a massive obsession about him so e-mail him yourself and make your day.so
Here is a clue. It is not anti-Jewish racism.Never claimed it was your party.
Quote from: mk1 on December 08, 2019, 01: PM
Quote from: akarjl2 on December 08, 2019, 12: PM
Define fruitcake?
It is a
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/922/wHDByQ.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/pmwHDByQj)
Is that Hickory Hills get away horse on Friday....?
Quote from: Inspector Knacker on December 08, 2019, 02: PM
anyway you're the one with a massive obsession about him so e-mail him yourself and make your day.so[/b]
Been in contact with Shane many times. Relations were always civil even when he was Ray Well's apologist. In fact after he left The Con-servatives he would send me bits of gossip about Labour so that I could post them here.
Quote from: akarjl2 on December 08, 2019, 12: PM
Actually he is a failed EX politician.
Failed?
I remember when the internet was awash with blogs telling the world David was going to fail in Hart. Official and unofficial Labour attack sites made the most outrageous claims with one infamous doughnut even claiming he had 'a secret' he was going to drop just before polling day and he had an army of canvassers ready to leaflet this in Hart. Turns out he was talking out of his rsole and despite his demented stalking David won and totally humiliated him. He never got over this and descended into ever-more insane stalking that was just as futile. The seeds of Labours destruction were sown and it lead to the eventual implosion of the local party.
There is one ironic footnote. Recently one of these tormented souls has been in touch gloating and saying more or less '
I told you they were really just a bunch of racist loonys' and it is impossible to disagree with that sentiment.
Quote from: mk1 on December 08, 2019, 02: PM
Quote from: Inspector Knacker on December 08, 2019, 02: PM
anyway you're the one with a massive obsession about him so e-mail him yourself and make your day.so[/b]
Been in contact with Shane many times. Relations were always civil even when he was Ray Well's apologist. In fact after he left The Con-servatives he would send me bits of gossip about Labour so that I could post them here.
Like I said, I don't know the bloke and steer well clear of any politician. Even brushing past them is difficult because just like plutonium, you don't want them to come too close in case you get them on your clothes.
Quote from: Inspector Knacker on December 08, 2019, 03: PM
d steer well clear of any politician. Even brushing past them is difficult because just like plutonium, you don't want them to come too close in case you get them on your clothes.
At work I would sometimes had to 'advocate' against people I worked with closely. This never transferred over into the work environment. It is possible to compartmentalise your life. Those who fixate completely on a single issue so that it is at the core of every decision they make are the problem. They are in a cult.
Quote from: mk1 on December 08, 2019, 03: PM
Quote from: akarjl2 on December 08, 2019, 12: PM
Actually he is a failed EX politician.
Failed?
Maybe I am missing something he is not a Clownceller anymore= failed to get elected?
Quote'I told you they were really just a bunch of racist loonys' and it is impossible to disagree with that sentiment.
Awww bless if in doubt resort to the usual bollux hahahahah
Quote from: mk1 on December 08, 2019, 03: PM
At work I would sometimes had to 'advocate' against people I worked with closely. This never transferred over into the work environment.
...as a (labour) union convenor lol?
QuoteIt is possible to compartmentalise your life. Those who fixate completely on a single issue so that it is at the core of every decision they make are the problem. They are in a cult.
Amazing you have just described yourself!
Are you sure yourself and David are not secret "over the" Hill election agents?
Fingers crossed he gets flushed down the pan (floating voters? ;)) back to the Boro and labour becomes history in aaartlepool.
Quote from: mk1 on December 08, 2019, 03: PM
It is possible to compartmentalise your life. Those who fixate completely on a single issue so that it is at the core of every decision they make are the problem. They are in a cult.
You mean like the Labour Party...?
Quote from: mk1 on December 08, 2019, 12: PM
Quote from: Tee_Ess_25er on December 08, 2019, 10: AM
Just because the views on here have (imo) now become extremely polarised to the point of out and out hatred..............
Indeed. It seems that if you point out Shanes duplicity the fruitcakes go into a complete meltdown.
What was once condemned as Labour lies and duplicity is now lauded as sound tactics.
It appears many where lying when for the last decade they said they were against Labour corruption and they were really
just Labour-phobic and lacking the courage to come out and admit it.
They are not against lies and corruption when their politicians practise it.
And the 'New Labour' outfit are any different to labour of old, there are those amongst them that I wouldn't trust as far as I could throw Carl Richardson.
I don't doubt Shane Moore has his faults, (no I don't want your list) but ripping him up for a**e paper before he had a month in office was over the top.
My preference is for a council that works for the betterment of the town and it's residents no matter which party they represent, the difficulty is that the labour party's first priority is the labour party.
Nationally I think it's time Hartlepool became a marginal seat, Lord Charles would be more use than the last 2 labour mp's we have been lumbered with.
Quote from: mk1 on December 08, 2019, 12: PM
Quote from: Tee_Ess_25er on December 08, 2019, 10: AM
Just because the views on here have (imo) now become extremely polarised to the point of out and out hatred..............These views could equally refer to Mk1, are you so egotistic as to think you are above such claims. No one polarises quite like you
Indeed. It seems that if you point out Shanes duplicity the fruitcakes go into a complete meltdown.
'Fruitcakes' being anyone who doesn't share your view
What was once condemned as Labour lies and duplicity is now lauded as sound tactics.
It appears many where lying when for the last decade they said they were against Labour corruption and they were really
just Labour-phobic and lacking the courage to come out and admit it.
Instead of these hectoring rants and turbocharged addresses to no one, try considering just for once YOU may occasionally be whistling in the wind.
They are not against lies and corruption when their politicians practise it.
'Their politicians'?, here you go again, shooting from the hip with your scattergun style delusions and missing.
Quote from: fred c on December 08, 2019, 04: PM
I don't doubt Shane Moore has his faults, (no I don't want your list) but ripping him up for a**e paper before he had a month in office was over the top.
Then he should not have allowed CAB back into a position of power, made a pact with the Tories, changed his political Party and put forward the max possible CT Increase 'not long after he got into office'?
A two-faced lying politician is not to be excused simply because he shares your obsession.
Perhaps a search to see how long after Hill was elected the forum started
'ripping him up for a**e paper' might be productive?
In other words ?...Shane did not consult with you and get your approval. Seriously? ::)
Quote from: mk1 on December 08, 2019, 05: PM
Quote from: fred c on December 08, 2019, 04: PM
I don't doubt Shane Moore has his faults, (no I don't want your list) but ripping him up for a**e paper before he had a month in office was over the top.
Then he should not have allowed CAB back into a position of power, made a pact with the Tories, changed his political Party and put forward the max possible CT Increase 'not long after he got into office'?
A two-faced lying politician is not to be excused simply because he shares your obsession.
Perhaps a search to see how long after Hill was elected the forum started 'ripping him up for a**e paper' might be productive?
You really couldn't help yourself, 'the list' had to appear......as for your unwarranted 'obsession dig' I don't have a political obsession, I have an unfulfillable hope of local politics being flushed down the pan.....
Quote from: mk1 on December 08, 2019, 05: PM
Perhaps a search to see how long after Hill was elected the forum started 'ripping him up for a**e paper' might be productive?
'ripping him up for a*#e paper', that's it, go for the emotive when ' realising he was ineffective' would have fitted the bill much better.
Who's stopping you, crack on.
Mike Hill is the most ineffective, anonymous, uninspiring, excuse for an MP and it didn't take long to see it was patently obvious. However, for some bizarre malfunction of your thought process you appear to be defending him. Kindly tell me just what it was I missed. I see nothing, just a tired party apparatchik enjoying his twilight years, a pity we aren't.
So, this leaves limited room for manoeuvre . You either approve of his 'style' or you are a loyal party apparatchik trying to sell him as Super Mike.... again!
After asking how soon he got flak, it wasn't soon enough.
Quote from: fred c on December 08, 2019, 05: PM
I have an unfulfillable hope of local politics being flushed down the pan.....
Shane used to say things that:
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/921/XvpA6e.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/plXvpA6ej)
However once his lies got him elected he quickly cast aside all pretence and became very interested in 'National' Politics.
In truth he knew he was going to rejoin the latest Farage Cult but dared not admit it so had to invent a completely bogus 'Independent Union' political group to cover his ar*se. 'Buying off' the votes of the SCAB Cabal & The Conservatives allowed him to feel secure enough to end the charade.
Maybe he did it to wind you up? He certainly succeeded. ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: Inspector Knacker on December 08, 2019, 06: PM
'ripping him up for a*#e paper', that's it, go for the emotive when ' realising he was ineffective' would have fitted the bill much better.
Your inability to master the quote function may mean I misread things here but it may interest you to know
the quote that (appears to) offend is not mine. I simply re-used it hence the quotes I place around it.
Looks like I touched a nerve. Excellent.
Quote from: Inspector Knacker on December 08, 2019, 06: PM
Looks like I touched a nerve. Excellent.
I am always on the look-out for a hook to hang my hat. If people try and defend Shane then I use that to simply repost Shane's' own words to expose his duplicity. It takes but as second to include the link
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/921/XvpA6e.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/plXvpA6ej)
If you believe that also gives you a 'victory' then I am happy for you.
You'd throw a man overboard two ends of the same rope. Work it out.
Quote from: Inspector Knacker on December 08, 2019, 06: PM
Mike Hill is the most ineffective, anonymous, uninspiring, excuse for an MP and it didn't take long to see it was patently obvious. However, for some bizarre malfunction of your thought process you appear to be defending him. Kindly tell me just what it was I missed.
You missed lots. Or more correctly ignore lots,.
These for example
Quote from: mk1 on July 23, 2018, 04: PM
I saw Hill and Simmons scampering about preparing for the Meeting. Hill always looks as if he is terrified someone is going to walk up to him and attack-he has that 'victim' look about him. His eyes dart about and he is constantly checking who is behind him. I can well understand out-of-town types wanting to be his close friend because I am sure he is easily manipulated. Anyway true to type he was carting in bottles of water and drinks for the meeting. Thus confirming his role as a simple water-carrier!
Quote from: mk1 on November 15, 2017, 08: PM
Hill in The Mail last Thursday:
AS we remember those who sacrificed their lives, we might like to reflect on the Representation of the People (Young People's Enfranchisement and Education) Bill. It's quite a mouthful but in a nutshell, it's an attempt to give 16-year-olds the right to vote. This Bill, sponsored by Jim McMahon, aims to reduce the voting age for Parliamentary elections to the House of Commons from 18 to 16 years. This Bill did not have time to complete its Second Reading, and is currently scheduled to resume debate on December 1. I sincerely hope the voting age is reduced as any reasons to retain the current legal age are truly spurious. Indeed, some of the reasons being given are laughable; akin to reasons given when women were given the vote. The young people of today are far better educated and informed than Arthur Leonard Brown would have been when the poor lad died for his country. I see no legitimate reason why the age shouldn't be lowered. I'd suggest that those on the Tory benches give due consideration to this matter. They might particularly like to reflect that the average age of a Conservative Party member is 73.
http://www.hartlepoolmail.co.uk/news/opinion/mike-hill-mp-remember-the-victims-of-war-this-sunday-1-8846567
Not only is it partisan it is untruthful.
There is a Fact Checking site that has looked into the 'average age of a Conservative Party member is 73' claim and it concludes it is incorrect.
https://fullfact.org/news/how-old-average-conservative-party-member/
In fact the average age of Party Members is given as:
Conservative = 57
SNP = 54
Lab = 53
Liberal = 52
Also the legal age for a soldier in 1914 was 18 to sign up and 19 to be sent overseas. Currently it is possible to enlist at 16 with the written consent of parents but no one under 18 can be deployed on operations. Hill's implied claim of 16 year-olds being old enough to die for their country but not to be able to vote is another illustration of his ignorance.
Arthur Leonard Brown was a Hartlepool born (but living in Cardiff)Mess Room Steward who died when his ship was sunk by U53 in Feb 1919 aged 14.
Quote from: mk1 on February 20, 2018, 11: AM
Hill back on the Hospital Bandwagon in today's Mail
https://www.facebook.com/hartlepoolmailnews/posts/1828040310549144
Same old same old. What is 'new' is the absence of Anth defending against the overwhelmingly negative reception Hill normally gets.
It seems Anth has phoned up Momentum Head Office and asked them to send a couple of shill posters to support Hill. We have the return of London based Preston
https://www.facebook.com/hartlepoolmailnews/posts/1828040310549144?comment_id=1828098520543323&reply_comment_id=1828104873876021&comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22R9%22%7D
and scouser Alan
https://www.facebook.com/hartlepoolmailnews/posts/1828040310549144?comment_id=1828118573874651&comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22R0%22%7D
Prerston has been mentioned here before:
https://hptimbral.hartlepoolpost.co.uk/index.php/topic,4235.msg45092.html#msg45092
Why are the locals so reluctant to support Hill?
I am a true iconoclast.
Quote from: Inspector Knacker on December 08, 2019, 07: PM
You'd throw a man overboard two ends of the same rope. Work it out.
And you are the soldier defending a position and not understanding why his own machine guns are constantly firing into an empty open field way out on his left. You work that one out.
Cosmic.
Quote"I am a true iconoclast."
and REALY need to get a life or get out more.....take break...have a kitkat.....Strictly is on FFS!
Oh a true iconoclast. Great, mines got a bent blade so how much will you charge to repair it and remove the jammed grass cuttings...?
Sad to say it, but i'm done with the forum the accusations of racism, stupidity, right wing extremism and constant preaching have become the norm, any opinions that differ in anyway to the thoughts of the chairman of the board are met with constant repetitive and vindictive attacks.
I suspect it won't be long before other users come to the same conclusion and call it a day, he could well manage to do what Blackwood couldn't.
Quote from: fred c on December 08, 2019, 08: PM
Sad to say it, but i'm done with the forum the accusations of racism, stupidity, right wing extremism and constant preaching have become the norm, any opinions that differ in anyway to the thoughts of the chairman of the board are met with constant repetitive and vindictive attacks.
I suspect it won't be long before other users come to the same conclusion and call it a day, he could well manage to do what Blackwood couldn't.
Perhaps you prefer the Facebook page where you can use your double-standards to attack David when he brought up Shanes old posts/lies and then praised and applauded Dirk when he did the
exact same thing to Corbyn/
See this post for the details:
http://hptimbral.hartlepoolpost.co.uk/index.php/topic,5181.msg54984/topicseen.html#msg54984
Quote from: mk1 on October 22, 2019, 03: AM
Dirk posted this on the Post FB page on Sept 8th 2019:
It was a link to Corbyn speaking in 2009:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/273708489455822/permalink/1406614609498532/
The Mods said this:
If Carlsberg did hypocrites...................................
His followers will deny it or find an excuse........................
Then just 6 days later David posted this on the Post FB page dated Sept 14th 2019
It was a link to a 2013 post here by Shane.
http://hptimbral.hartlepoolpost.co.uk/index.php/topic,914.msg11662.html#msg11662
For his trouble he got this from the ModS
trawling through 6 year old post about Shane, you should consider how is performing as leader now, then comment on that.......................It's how he is performing as leader that counts,............. I don't know if it's you trying to show everyone how clever you are, .. ..
.I hope all councillors and ex councillors have nothing on Google to be embarrassed about from the last century.
People change. Ideas change. Opinions change. Many of our towns councillors have in the past changed parties. Some even changed wards tho not moved............................are you running for Council again? Shall we screenshot that comment for the future?.........................
surely going back six years to quote someone is scraping the bottom of the barrel. Whatever anyone's views, times change and circumstances move on. Your post smacks of desperation.................................
Why is there one set of rules for those who expose the duplicity of a Left-wing Politician and a mere 6 days later an entirely different set of rules for those who expose the duplicity of a right-wing Politician?
The two posts are identical in their intent but only one of the posters was attacked.
Why?
Never did get an answer did I?
Quote from: fred c on December 08, 2019, 08: PM
any opinions that differ in anyway to the thoughts of the chairman of the board are met with constant repetitive and vindictive attacks.
.
This from years (2014) back shows you are using the same playbook UKIP tried when their attempt to take over the board was blocked
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/922/2AVuAv.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/pm2AVuAvj)
zzzzz wake me up when he shuts up lol........I prefer his video links then at least I am not tempted to click on them....the problem with MK1isms is occasionally, as in very occasionally, when he is not childishly tearing into anyone who has the temerity to not accept at face value everything he says he comes out with something of value.
The problem is he's a cyber bully who will not tolerate anyone having a conflicting opinion and obviously considers most members of this forum to be retarded.....as for facial book I couldn't give a flying f*c* I see no need to broadcast my life to all and sundry....looks like some have given up posting....this will be a very quiet place soon.
It already a very weird place controlled by one person defending labour,Riddle and slagging off anyone who thinks we should be out of Europe.....looks like Mr Fred has had enough.
Thanks god most of UK has no idea this forum exists .........if they did they might think Hartlepool is full of nutters.
Quote from: mk1 on December 08, 2019, 08: PM
Quote from: fred c on December 08, 2019, 08: PM
Sad to say it, but i'm done with the forum the accusations of racism, stupidity, right wing extremism and constant preaching have become the norm, any opinions that differ in anyway to the thoughts of the chairman of the board are met with constant repetitive and vindictive attacks.
I suspect it won't be long before other users come to the same conclusion and call it a day, he could well manage to do what Blackwood couldn't.
Perhaps you prefer the Facebook page where you can use your double-standards to attack David when he brought up Shanes old posts/lies and then praised and applauded Dirk when he did the exact same thing to Corbyn/
See this post for the details:
http://hptimbral.hartlepoolpost.co.uk/index.php/topic,5181.msg54984/topicseen.html#msg54984
Quote from: mk1 on October 22, 2019, 03: AM
Dirk posted this on the Post FB page on Sept 8th 2019:
It was a link to Corbyn speaking in 2009:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/273708489455822/permalink/1406614609498532/
The Mods said this:
If Carlsberg did hypocrites...................................
His followers will deny it or find an excuse........................
Then just 6 days later David posted this on the Post FB page dated Sept 14th 2019
It was a link to a 2013 post here by Shane.
http://hptimbral.hartlepoolpost.co.uk/index.php/topic,914.msg11662.html#msg11662
For his trouble he got this from the ModS
trawling through 6 year old post about Shane, you should consider how is performing as leader now, then comment on that.......................It's how he is performing as leader that counts,............. I don't know if it's you trying to show everyone how clever you are, .. ..
.I hope all councillors and ex councillors have nothing on Google to be embarrassed about from the last century.
People change. Ideas change. Opinions change. Many of our towns councillors have in the past changed parties. Some even changed wards tho not moved............................are you running for Council again? Shall we screenshot that comment for the future?.........................
surely going back six years to quote someone is scraping the bottom of the barrel. Whatever anyone's views, times change and circumstances move on. Your post smacks of desperation.................................
Why is there one set of rules for those who expose the duplicity of a Left-wing Politician and a mere 6 days later an entirely different set of rules for those who expose the duplicity of a right-wing Politician?
The two posts are identical in their intent but only one of the posters was attacked.
Why?
Never did get an answer did I?
And now you never will.🐏🐏🐏🐏🐏🐏🐏🐏🐏🐏🐏🐏🐏🐏🐏🐏🐑🐑🐑🐑🐑🐑🐏🐏🐏🐏🐏🐏🐏🐏🐏🐏🐏🐏🐑🐑🐑🐏🐑🐏🐏🐏🐏🐏🐏🐑🐑🐑🐑🐑🐑🐑🐑🐏🐏🐏🐏🐏🐑🐑🐑🐑🐑🐑🐑🐑🐑🐑🐑🐑🐑🐑🐑🐑🐑🐑🐑🐑🐑🐑🐑🐑🐑🐑🐏🐏🐏🐏🐏🐏🐑🐑🐑🐏🐏🐏🐏🐏🐏🐑🐑🐑🐑🐏🐏🐏🐑🐑🐑🐏🐏🐏🐏🐏🐏🐏🐏🐏🐏🐏🐑🐑🐑🐑🐑
Just getting back to the point I alluded to which caused this thread to be resurrected, in a short while it'll become clear.
I know for a stonewall fact members of the UKIP mob/Brexit Party locally have been guilty of a lot of very questionable quotations.
I've heard many of them with my own two ears first hand.
For example, a UKIP member on the licensing committee questioned an alcohol license request because it was from "that Sri Lankan'.
A UKIP member when reminded Hartlepool is 98.5% white British and is one of the least 'affected' areas immigration wise anywhere in the country said "AAAhhh but YET David, YET!"
A UKIP member demanding HBC sent a letter to the Prime Minister about a week after the referendum result urging them to 'get Brexit done'. Keep in mind the Brexit issue has already seen off two Prime Ministers and might well see off a 3rd and 4th and in all likelihood will take 8-10 years to 'get done' (if it ever actually gets done which I doubt).
Anyway, keep your ears to the ground people. Keep an ear out for the countries only 'Brexit Party council', with arguably the second highest profile Brexit Party member pushing for MP, attracting VERY negative publicity.
One particular fella might even attract the attention of Krishnan Guru-Murthy.
Quote from: akarjl2 on December 08, 2019, 09: PM
The problem is he's a cyber bully who will not tolerate anyone having a conflicting opinion
Clearly you are not used to being challenged. No one here gets as much personal insult/name calling as me but you don't see my running to teacher for comfort. I can easily deal with everything my 3 regular and 1 part-time stalker can throw my way. I am not in the least bit perturbed by it and nor do I allow the obvious and pathetic attempts at trolling deflect me from making my points.
The real problem is that my case is unanswerable and the inability of the Shane supporters to admit Shane/The Brexit Party lied just makes them look ever more foolish with every pathetic attempted defence of his actions.
The Post Facebook page is hopelessly lop-sided with no real attempt at balance. There is nothing wrong with running an echo chamber but do not try pretend it is not biased. Just because you do not set out to make an echo chamber does not negate the fact it has become one.
Most Facebook posters on
any subject know next to nothing about the things they post. It is the same for
every subject and believing we should make an exception about laughing at this ignorance just because they are talking about politics is absurd. Politics is rife with lie and disinformation from those who know full well they are deceiving and I see no reason why we should go easy on those who swallow all that crap and then promote it on Facebook.
From my experience with Hartlepool councillors I would say the collective IQ of most of them is shockingly low. I saw little difference between The SCAB Cabal and UKIP in this area but admit I was actually stunned by how deep into Conspiracy theory 2 of the first UKIP Councillors were. They really were bat-s**t crazy.
Quote from: DRiddle on December 08, 2019, 09: PM
Just getting back to the point I alluded to which caused this thread to be resurrected, in a short while it'll become clear.
I know for a stonewall fact members of the UKIP mob/Brexit Party locally have been guilty of a lot of very questionable quotations.
I've heard many of them with my own two ears first hand.
For example, a UKIP member on the licensing committee questioned an alcohol license request because it was from "that Sri Lankan'.
A UKIP member when reminded Hartlepool is 98.5% white British and is one of the least 'affected' areas immigration wise anywhere in the country said "AAAhhh but YET David, YET!"
A UKIP member demanding HBC sent a letter to the Prime Minister about a week after the referendum result urging them to 'get Brexit done'. Keep in mind the Brexit issue has already seen off two Prime Ministers and might well see off a 3rd and 4th and in all likelihood will take 8-10 years to 'get done' (if it ever actually gets done which I doubt).
Anyway, keep your ears to the ground people. Keep an ear out for the countries only 'Brexit Party council', with arguably the second highest profile Brexit Party member pushing for MP, attracting VERY negative publicity.
One particular fella might even attract the attention of Krishnan Guru-Murthy.
The boy David hands his homework in to the teacher, but still sends in the same basic essay with tedious variations and scant originality.
Must try harder.
Quote from: mk1 on December 08, 2019, 10: PM
Quote from: akarjl2 on December 08, 2019, 09: PM
The problem is he's a cyber bully who will not tolerate anyone having a conflicting opinion
Clearly you are not used to being challenged. No one here gets as much personal insult/name calling as me but you don't see my running to teacher for comfort.
Because No1 you deserve it and 2, even the teacher doesn't care anymore.
I can easily 4deal with everything my 3 regular and 1 part-time stalker can throw my way. I am not in the least bit perturbed by it and nor do I allow the obvious and pathetic attempts at trolling deflect me from making my points.
But if that's the case why highlight a 'problem' that in your words is not a problem. Odd that unless you're playing the victim card.
The real problem is that my case is unanswerable
No, tediously unfathomable to the point of boredom.
and the inability of the Shane supporters to admit Shane/The Brexit Party lied just makes them look ever more foolish with every pathetic attempted defence of his actions.
Infamy, infamy they've all got it in for me. You're just not that important, come to terms with it and cease the self generated victimhood. ::)
The Post Facebook page is hopelessly lop-sided with no real attempt at balance. There is nothing wrong with running an echo chamber but do not try pretend it is not biased. Just comebecause you do not set out to make an echo chamber does not negate the fact it has become on
.Here we go, Ming the Merciless wants the Facebook page to reflect his dictatorial views now
Most Facebook posters on any subject know next to nothing about the things they post.
oh the bitter arrogance, he's smarter than most on their and their views count for nothing for the Leader is right.
It is the same for every subject and believing we should make an exception about laughing at this ignorance just because they are talking about politics is absurd. Ah, so anyone who doesn't share your view is absurd, the ignorance and absurdity I can see is this nauseous elitist guff from you
Politics is rife with lie and disinformation from those who know full well they are deceiving and I see no reason why we should go easy on those who swallow all that crap and then promote it on Facebook.
Basically he wants to control Facebook as well. ::)
From my experience with Hartlepool councillors I would say the collective IQ of most of them is shockingly low. I saw little difference between The SCAB Cabal and UKIP in this area but admit I was actually stunned by how deep into Conspiracy theory 2 of the first UKIP Councillors were. They really were bat-s**t crazy.
And you said that with a straight face, mirror, mirror on the wall who's the vainest of them all.
Quote from: Inspector Knacker on December 08, 2019, 12: PM
Quote from: Tee_Ess_25er on December 08, 2019, 10: AM
For me personally after all that has happened in this town over the last few years I find myself in a position that I cannot get even close to 100% behind any party running in the upcoming GE so I just don't know where to put my X this coming Thu. One thing people have been saying is that you should then vote for the lesser of all the evils, I may do that but one thing I will never be going for is Farages latest circus act because all he has ever pushed is fear and lies, he is the countries biggest bestest con man.
So you're happy with Mike eh? Because that's what you're gonna get then. You'll have made David's day.
And right there is what I mean by polarisation, you assume I am voting for one party when I say I will never vote for another. Nothing else really needs saying on that, point proven.
I would class myself solely in the middle in all this at the moment so will happily call out what I perceive as BS from either 'side'.
Also imo, members here who start new posts solely to attack other members, lowest of the low whoever you are.
To be fair to you yes I did and apologise for that. However you made exactly the same assumption about me.This board is under attack from within and people stand by transfixed .
Quote from: Tee_Ess_25er on December 09, 2019, 10: AM
Also imo, members here who start new posts solely to attack other members, lowest of the low whoever you are.
Please define 'attack'. I liked this board when it was about local matters,the town. I only came on to the local issues because I don't want to change the world, just the traffic lights. There are other categories where the topic of Brexit can be debated, but some people were talking to themselves about Brexit so bounced into here and bombarded us with their dogmatic and repetitive views insulting the intelligence of those who didn't agree. I've been on this board a few years now but never experienced the increase in patronising nonsense we've experienced since the election was announced.
I am not prepared to be patronised by self appointed experts and you shouldn't accept it either.
What's going on indeed? Another day...another delivery of election leaflets! Labour MUST be VERY worried, as we've had 5 (five) from them. Two from the Tory guy and one each from the Brexit gang, the Lib Dem's and the SLP. Is this a record? Our posties must be fed up with all this junk mail. Still, it's better than walking the streets! ;D
There's talk of Corbyn resigning on Friday if Labour fail to get in!
Once we get this accursed election over and done with we may well see a bit more discipline enforced on here.
Quote from: Tee_Ess_25er on December 09, 2019, 10: AM
And right there is what I mean by polarisation, you assume I am voting for one party when I say I will never vote for another. Nothing else really needs saying on that, point proven.
Anything less than rabid uncritical support for The Brexit Party means you are a terrorist supporting Marxist sympathiser.
Your card is marked..............
Quote from: admin on December 09, 2019, 12: PM
Once we get this accursed election over and done with we may well see a bit more discipline enforced on here.
I don't think so. The board history shows a recurring problem with extreme elements of Political parties trying to infiltrate and dominate it. Its nothing new. UKIP tried it several times over the years and then when Labour realised they were in real danger they too tried to dominate, disrupt (Andy Simms) and silence The Post.
In my opinion what happened is what was once considered an extreme view became more mainstream
locally and then any opposition to that view was attacked as the extreme position.
Quote from: Johnny Bongo on December 09, 2019, 12: PM
What's going on indeed? Another day...another delivery of election leaflets! Labour MUST be VERY worried, as we've had 5 (five) from them. Two from the Tory guy and one each from the Brexit gang, the Lib Dem's and the SLP. Is this a record? Our posties must be fed up with all this junk mail. Still, it's better than walking the streets! ;D
There's talk of Corbyn resigning on Friday if Labour fail to get in!
The last time Farage tried to replace the Tories it gifted the seat to Labour.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/924/kNDdGA.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/pokNDdGAj)
An article listing Farage's ineptitude and how he was completely owned by Boris.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/08/brexit-party-nigel-farage-life-support-general-election-campaign
Nigel Farage can still work a crowd but not standing in Tory seats was a gamble that looks to have failed
Quote from: mk1 on December 09, 2019, 01: PM
Quote from: admin on December 09, 2019, 12: PM
Once we get this accursed election over and done with we may well see a bit more discipline enforced on here.
I don't think so. The board history shows a recurring problem with extreme elements of Political parties trying to infiltrate and dominate it. Its nothing new. UKIP tried it several times over the years and then when Labour realised they were in real danger they too tried to dominate, disrupt (Andy Simms) and silence The Post.
In my opinion what happened is what was once considered an extreme view became more mainstream locally and then any opposition to that view was attacked as the extreme position.
The only people going to silence the Post are you.
In the last link I posted it is mentioned how one crowd for Farage was so small they removed a couple of rows of chairs to make it look like it was more popular. This happens a lot to Nigel and by careful cropping he can give the impression he always packs his venues. This from 2015 for example:
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/921/P4NTFV.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/plP4NTFVj)
However a long-shot reveal the reality
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/924/qX1SoY.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/poqX1SoYj)
Quote from: mk1 on December 09, 2019, 12: PM
Quote from: Tee_Ess_25er on December 09, 2019, 10: AM
And right there is what I mean by polarisation, you assume I am voting for one party when I say I will never vote for another. Nothing else really needs saying on that, point proven.
Anything less than rabid uncritical support for The Brexit Party means you are a terrorist supporting Marxist sympathiser.
Your card is marked..............
Haven't you got a politburo meeting this afternoon at the Leon Trotsky Tea Rooms...?
Quote from: mk1 on December 09, 2019, 01: PM
In the last link I posted it is mentioned how one crowd for Farage was so small they removed a couple of rows of chairs to make it look like it was more popular. This happens a lot to Nigel and by careful cropping he can give the impression he always packs his venues. This from 2015 for example:
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/921/P4NTFV.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/plP4NTFVj)
However a long-shot reveal the reality
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/924/qX1SoY.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/poqX1SoYj)
If it makes you happy keep churning your fan club pictures out.
Quote from: mk1 on December 09, 2019, 01: PM
Quote from: Johnny Bongo on December 09, 2019, 12: PM
What's going on indeed? Another day...another delivery of election leaflets! Labour MUST be VERY worried, as we've had 5 (five) from them. Two from the Tory guy and one each from the Brexit gang, the Lib Dem's and the SLP. Is this a record? Our posties must be fed up with all this junk mail. Still, it's better than walking the streets! ;D
There's talk of Corbyn resigning on Friday if Labour fail to get in!
The last time Farage tried to replace the Tories it gifted the seat to Labour.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/924/kNDdGA.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/pokNDdGAj)
Technicolor yawn.... or a dockside omelette. Is that a chart of barbed wire production in Bulgaria with the names changed....?
Quote from: mk1 on December 09, 2019, 01: PM
An article listing Farage's ineptitude and how he was completely owned by Boris.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/08/brexit-party-nigel-farage-life-support-general-election-campaign
Nigel Farage can still work a crowd but not standing in Tory seats was a gamble that looks to have failed
Who cares, I'm interested in just one seat.
From The Daily Mail
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/924/6pTujl.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/po6pTujlj)
Saw Carl huffin 'n puffin along Raby Road with a back-pack full of leaflets. It is all hands to the pumps. In the interest of balance checked all the surrounding streets but no sign of Tice or his army of Smurfs.
I can still post!
A nation mourns. ::)
Quote from: mk1 on December 09, 2019, 05: PM
Saw Carl huffin 'n puffin along Raby Road with a back-pack full of leaflets. It is all hands to the pumps. In the interest of balance checked all the surrounding streets but no sign of Tice or his army of Smurfs.
That would indicate Tice has followers to help him, while Puffing Billy is Billy no mates. Why weren't you helping him, it's your candidate after all.
Quote from: admin on December 09, 2019, 12: PM
Once we get this accursed election over and done with we may well see a bit more discipline enforced on here.
Hear hear
Would that include the prevention/deletion of off-topic comments? I expect that would keep the staff busy here.
I did warn you...........
Prediction:
Quote from: mk1 on November 11, 2019, 06: PM
Many areas will not be effected by EU law but some important areas are.
For example
"The impact of EU law varies from sector to sector. In many areas - public order, crime, defence, health - EU laws have minimal impact. But in others - workers' rights, trade - the impact is much greater because the single market and the free movement of workers are at the heart of what the EU is about. The way we organise our NHS is not
Illustrates an area where banging on about the populist bits (immigration) allows those with darker motives (to drastically curb Workers Rights) in through the back door.
Its in the pipeline:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55656593