UKIP

[The Shadow]

I didn't say anything against the Human Rights Act, simply the Treaty which means that we have to suffer the rulings of judges in Strasbourg who have 'interpreted' the H R Act in such a way that the rulings endanger or the rights of others.

Both the EU and UN state that if someone is seeking asylum then they should do so in the first safe country they reach. Forgive me, but unless all asylum seekers arrive by boat or plane from their original country, they have passed through numerous 'safe' countries to get here. Those other 'safe' countries who are also EU member states and sighned up to the EU Human Rights Treaty would have also afforded them the same level of rights.

So please don't give me the old "they come here as we are a beacon of true democracy and freedom" b*ll*cks.

[Micksmate]

I didn't say anything against the Human Rights Act, simply the Treaty which means that we have to suffer the rulings of judges in Strasbourg who have 'interpreted' the H R Act in such a way that the rulings endanger or the rights of others.

And the Human rights lawyers can fill their bank accounts at the taxpayers expense

Both the EU and UN state that if someone is seeking asylum then they should do so in the first safe country they reach. Forgive me, but unless all asylum seekers arrive by boat or plane from their original country, they have passed through numerous 'safe' countries to get here. Those other 'safe' countries who are also EU member states and sighned up to the EU Human Rights Treaty would have also afforded them the same level of rights.

would or should

So please don't give me the old "they come here as we are a beacon of true democracy and freedom" b*ll*cks.

At last someone who can see the realities of life and is not afraid to say so, before anyone says anything i am not UKIP, BNP, EDL or anything else, just a concerned Grandfather who is incresingly worried about how things are progressing in this country.  Another little insight the Asian men who were charged with grooming and have now been found guilty may appeal, their Asian lawyer is claiming racism among the jury, more taxpayers money in his pocket.

[mk1]

Another little insight the Asian men who were charged with grooming and have now been found guilty may appeal, their Asian lawyer is claiming racism among the jury, more taxpayers money in his pocket.

Bit more to it than that. The fact is Nick Griffin (the ex boyfriend of Martin 'Sweetie' Webster) got the result of the Jury vote BEFORE they gave it to the judge and he tweeted it  before it was announced.
Something funny is going on. If they do get off then it is all down to Nick.

By the way to all those who say it can't happen here I can only say there are takeaways  in the town where the garlic sauce is suspect.
If you go to your local keebab house and you find it strangely closed for an hour then be very afraid of what is going on in the kitchens...............I kid you not.

[notinshadow]

Sorry to sound thick but is N.G. really a gay man.

I thought they were in to the anti gay message along with all the other rubbish they go on about.

I wish I had an understanding of the politics malarky..it all seems a bit f**c*** up to me.

[mk1]

Most of Hitlers Brownshirt leaders  were homosexual.
It seems to be the norm among far right leadership circles.

http://griffinwatch-nwn.blogspot.co.uk/2009/08/martin-webster-on-nick-griffin-no-pun.html

[The Shadow]

The BNP are left wing. Look at their policies.

[mk1]

The BNP are left wing. Look at their policies.

and my elbow is my ar-se

[notinshadow]

This is where I get confused..

Rightly or wrongly and correct me where I am wrong as I will be..

UKIP right wing far..

BNP the same.

Some Labour far Left others maybe not as much..

Tory right of middle but not to far right..

Green..their to stoned to care..

Libs where they are told to be..at the time but mainly middle of the road.

But this is where it is f*c*ed up for me more than above..

M.J.. far Left, Henry and the A.B.'s too
Brush.. right wing Labour
Slink.. middle to far left Labour.
Wells.. left of Tory.
Dr Snuggles.. where his told.
G.L./S.A.. where ever they think the votes are.
S.D..middle ground labour but will move to where he thinks his best off.
P.. with the big ar** whatever her name is lentle eating Leftie
Who the fella with the squashed face and always talks s**t..the accountant fella..Pretty left of Labour but does as his told by M.J and Henry

How am I getting on so far.

[The Shadow]

Well, OK, MK1, but it's more than just a debating point. And it's not just Right-wing voters like me who say it. Here for example, is the Left-wing New Statesman:
"A brief skim through BNP manifesto literature brings to light proposals for the following: large increases in state pensions; more money for the NHS; improved worker protection; state ownership of key industries. Under Griffin, the modern-day far right has positioned itself to the left of Labour."

All true, except that it's not a modern development. The BNP, like all fascist movements, emerged from the revolutionary Left. It dislikes free enterprise, hates the rich and resents the monarchy. It markets itself as "the Labour Party your parents voted for" and its last manifesto promised "to give workers a stake in the success and prosperity of the enterprises whose profits their labour creates by encouraging worker shareholder and co-operative schemes". Its support comes overwhelmingly from ex-Labour voters.

That fascism developed from socialism in the 1920s is a statement of observed historical fact. Read Hayek's chapter on "The Socialist Roots of Nazism" in The Road to Serfdom. The hatred between fascists and traditional socialists over the decades has been all the fiercer for being a hatred between brothers.

In what sense, then, is the BNP Right-wing? Some argue that it is Right-wing to discriminate on the basis of race and nationality rather than class and income, but this would surely make Stalin, Gerry Adams, Pol Pot and Robert Mugabe very Right-wing indeed. A true Rightist believes that, other things being equal, the individual should be as free as possible from state coercion: a position equally abhorrent to socialists of the National or Leninist varieties.

No, there is only one sense in which the BNP is Right-wing, and that is the BBC sense. Our state broadcaster uses the epithet "Right-wing" to mean "disagreeable". It thus applies the term equally to Vladimir Zhirinovsky, Vladimir Putin, Timothy McVeigh, Eugene Terre'blanche, Orthodox Jews, the Taleban, the Pope, the Orange Order and David Cameron.

For example, BBC correspondents invariably describe Iranian hardliners as "Right-wing". Never mind that the ayatollahs expropriated the bourgeoisie, nationalised swathes of the economy, abolished the monarchy and reversed their country's alignment with the United States and Britain. Right-wing, in Beebworld, simply means "someone with frightful opinions".

The soubriquet can be neatly applied to opposed sides in a conflict. Below, for example, is a discussion from Newsnight. Debating the burqa ban, a Leftie Egyptian journalist says that, while she detests the political Right, who don't want the burqa, she equally detests the Muslim Right, who do. So both banning the burqa and imposing the burqa are, in her eyes, Right-wing positions. This being a BBC discussion, no one demurs. If anything, though, I'd have thought that the opposite is the case: a proper Right-winger would argue that, while it is perfectly alright for businesses or individuals to prohibit face-coverings, the state has no business telling us people how to dress.

Any Lefties still reading by this point may well be fuming. How dare this Shadow fellow compare us to Nick Griffin? Even if Griffin happens to have reached the same position as us on a handful of issues, that doesn't mean that we're of the same political tradition.
True: most Lefties find Griffinism abhorrent. But turn things around, chaps, and you'll see how offensive you sound when you call the BNP Right-wing, implying that the only difference between fascism and conservatism is one of degree. Constant repetition doesn't make it any less rude.

[steveL]

wow - wiki's busy this week.

[Micksmate]

Plagiarism at its worst, he's changed the name of the  Conservative MEP, Daniel Hannan to his own (Shadow) to make it look as if he had written it.  This is taken from The Telegraph's Blogs Editor, Damian Thompson piece.  Shameful really.

[notinshadow]

Plagiarism at its worst, he's changed the name of the  Conservative MEP, Daniel Hannan to his own (Shadow) to make it look as if he had written it.  This is taken from The Telegraph's Blogs Editor, Damian Thompson piece.  Shameful really.

I a surprised Daniel Hannan knows MK1

[mk1]

All I see is a  right wing attempts to blame the worlds ills on the left and rid themselves of some uncomfortable  history.
I am one of those simple souls who ignore the label and tastes the tins contents to decide the flavour.
The BNP/National Front/Nazi's/Tories are right wing groups.
For your convoluted theory to have any standing you would have to show a crossover of members between  say Labour/Liberal and a far right  party.
Point  out where this happens...........

[The Shadow]

I didn't claim to write it Micksmate. The article is as true in its original form as it is in this.

All I see is a  right wing attempts to blame the worlds ills on the left and rid themselves of some uncomfortable  history.

The same could be said about the left attempting to portray the BNP as right wing.

Conservatives and Libertarians alike will state, as is true, that they prefer a small less controlling state that allows people the freedom to do as they like (withing reason obviously). Protectionism and state controlled industries is not a policy of the right.
It is also worth remembering that the Nazis were named National Socialists for a reason.

You may take a simplistic view to it Mk1 but the fact remains that you are wrong.

[marky]

I think I'm losing the will to live .......

This whole thread, all 20 pages of it, comes down to the age-old "I'm right and you're wrong" argument.

Red v Blue, Catholics v Protestants, Pools supporters v Darlo supporters, Tory v Labour, Muslims v Christians, Unions v Management .....etc.....etc

If this is the extend of how far we've advanced in the last 5,000 years then we may as well go back to the original tribe system (of which this is all a variation) and let him with the sharpest spear win.