I know its from the Daily Mail, but this kind of thing is obviously happening all around the country.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2200339/Damning-truth-A-E-closure-fiasco-Savage-consequences-NHS-cuts-revealed-pensioner-waits-6-hours-ambulance.html
We should count ourselves lucky that we haven`t reached the 6 hour mark yet, but the average 90 minute wait for an ambulance makes a mockery of the "Golden Hour" in the event of someone having a heart attack.
Reading though the article it has all of the spin that we have seen from North Tees & Hartlepool NHS, glossy brochures, experts opinions etc etc, it all adds up to a damming indictment on the way the NHS is being allowed to disintergrate.
See that Hartlepool gets a mention as one of the 'lucky' venues to receive this wonderfully enhanced service...
The Daily Mail has a circulation of 1,730,610 and a total readership of 4,275,000, 52% of which are women. It's not to my taste politically but even so, it's a bit silly to dismiss all of those people simply as 'racists and bigots' and sillier still to infer that there is never anything of any worth highlighted in the paper.
My experience is that we should take all Newspaper stories with a pinch of salt, absorb as much information as we can from a variety of sources and then formulate our own opinions accordingly. I would give the same advice to anyone relying on the Morning Star as their main source of information.
http://www.mailclassified.co.uk/circulation-readership/circulation-readership
Quote from: kipperdip on September 09, 2012, 11: AM
I merely ask, which paper must the story be published in before we are allowed to believe what we read?
You have got to know the paper.
For instance all of Richard Desmond's titles (Star, Daily Express) are now nothing more than adverts for his TV Channel 5, Adult Porn empire (Television x)and gossip magazines (OK & New). Those papers never print anything that does not reflect well on Des or his interests.
Same with the Murdoch rags. If you only read his papers then you could be forgiven for having missed the phone hacking scandal.
The Daily Mail is the refuge of the small minded little Englander 'send the buggers home' mob.
All 3 of the above have TV interests so they constantly criticise the BBC at every opportunity and the deluded BBC haters are unaware they are being manipulated by the BBC's business rivals.
You could do the same with every paper but trying to promote the right-wing rags as unbiased 'tell it as it is' beacons of truth just shows your naivety!
I'm sure people are mostly aware of how the ambulance service works, but just in case not ... ambulance trusts are separate bodies from hospital trusts. As things stand at the moment, ambulance services are commissioned by the primary care trusts in collaboration with the emerging Clinical Care Groups (CCGs). In a few months the CCGs - run mostly by GPs - will be doing this on their own. If a hospital trust decides to close an A&E department it will have to consult with the local CCGs and amulance trust (and local authorities, the public, staff, etc) but ultimately it can make this decision independently.
In theory, there's no necessary link between speed of ambulance response and the local provision of an A&E department; it's up to the ambulance trust to ensure that it has sufficient vehicles, with the right staff, available to meet the response targets. Getting to an A&E is a separate matter.
Clinical opinion is generally on the side of those who believe that speedy access to an ambulance with appropriately skilled staff is the key to good emergency care; rapid access to an A&E is obviously important, but not quite as vital as many people think. In practice, if you choose to get to an A&E by private transport, the first hour will be spent on what the ambulance paramedics would have done anyway.
Having said all that, if the Mail's story is only half true, then it begins to sound as if changes to emergency and accident care are taking place in a rather incoherent way, driven by financial pressure rather than clinical best practice. Not wholly surprising, given the absurdity of undertaking a vast and deeply resented reform of the NHS while trying to cut a fifth of the budget in just 4 years.
A study by Birmingahm University concluded that the chances of someone surviving a life threatening situation, such as a heart attack, diminish by 1% for every six miles travelled in an ambulance - more so, I would guess, if in private transport.
In Hartlepool, this debate can become irrelevant when long delays are introduced by people going to the One Life Centre in the first instance only to be re-directed to North Tees either immediately or when the seriousness of their condition eventually becomes apparent.
It's a crazy situation when non-medical members of the public are told that they have to diagnose themselves as to the seriousness of their condition before deciding which medical facility they need and we've all read too many examples of when this has gone badly wrong.
The Daily Mail comment was not intended to suggest that i thought the article was untrue, all newpapers have a politicl bias of one sort or another, & i subscribe to steveL`s train of thought on papers in general.
JB`s reply is yet another example of a politician talking down to the voters, he can come out with all of the "Clinical B******T Opinions that he likes, the simple fact is.
OLC is no substitute for a fully working hospital with an A&E department, the number of comlaints that have appeared in the Hartlepool Council Mail are only a few of the actual incidents that have occured at the OLC.
It is a sticking plaster on a bleeding artery in real terms, there will unfortunately be a fatality at some point in time, because of the views of people like JB.
The reason Hartlepool has lost its Hospital is because of the views of Clinicians & Experts, their opinions are in direct contrast to those of Dr Karzai.
Reading through JB`s reply, i wonder if he actually read the article, but just in case.
A Mail on Sunday investigation into the closure of the A&E department at Newark Hospital in Nottinghamshire – which is typical of the towns and cities affected throughout the UK – revealed:
When an ambulance is called for 'Category A', life-threatening injuries or illnesses, the average time before a Newark patient is handed over to an A&E department is more than 90 minutes. In ten per cent of cases, it takes more than two-and-a-half hours.
Yet sources from the East Midlands Ambulance Service NHS Trust (EMAS), which covers Nottinghamshire, said the quality of ambulance care is, in fact, deteriorating.
They revealed ambulances answering 999 calls sometimes do not have a qualified paramedic on board. Patients are instead seen by 'emergency care assistants' or technicians – but they can give only the most basic treatment. This practice is being implemented nationally.
Dear me, all I said was 'this is what the clinicians usually say', and then I pointed out that the Mail article might be pointing to some underlying truth. And I hate the Mail.
But one other thing. Urgent Care Centres don't have the monopoly on getting things wrong: someone has to do study that compares A&E dept. errors with UCC mistakes. Otherwise we have no idea of whether one is better or worse than the other, and the anecdotal evidence remains just that - anecdotal.
A bit late now isn't it? Wouldn't it have been a better idea to carry out such a study before closing our A&E?....And I think we've passed the point were the horror stories coming out of the UCC can be described as 'anecdotal'. I don't remember many people describing the A&E as a waste of time and deciding to go straight to North Tees which is what is happening now with the One Life Centre. I'm sure that will suit the hospital trust just fine.
There has been a lot of plain deceipt over the A&E closure coming from the hospital trust and I can remember several Councillors at the time telling us that the services offered at the A&E were simply relocating to the OLC. We now know that staff at the UCC are legally not allowed to treat anything but the most minor of cases to the point when we may as well have just put a portakabin in the middle of the Shopping Centre and called it a First Aid Centre.
I too think you should read the Mail article again and would point out the following quote:
Carolyn White, deputy chief executive of the Sherwood Forest Hospitals NHS Foundation Trust, which runs Newark and King's Mill, said in the 'rare event' that patients had to wait a long time for an ambulance, 'patients at Newark Hospital can be assured that their continued care and wellbeing will be our utmost priority'.
She added: 'High quality patient care remains the Trust's top priority, and is evidenced by some of the best patient outcomes for trauma injuries in the country. We are successfully managing the increased demand and remain totally focused on maintaining the highest care quality standards.'
For Carolyn White, you can simply substitute the name of the North Tees Trust mouthpiece who I believe has now done a runner and imposed her talents on someone else. These people are robotic clones using the same language from the same mantra and every one of them has lost all contact with their own humanity.
Just for balance has anyone got any good tales to tell of the OLC?
I hve been a few times now for an split head and a couple of xrays and found the experiance quick and efficient
Hope Mrs Perseus was OK in the end
Did you know that during long haul flights the human body is exposed to massive doses of x-rays?
. . . and probably the best guarantee of getting one in Hartlepool by the sound of it :o
Complaints rise...platitudes remain?
http://health-and-fitness.icnetwork.co.uk/north-east-health-and-fitness-news/2012/09/05/complaints-from-patients-across-two-teesside-hospital-trusts-up-84229-31770316/
Glad Mrs. P. is OK - it is distinctly scary when you realise just how vulnerable the town's residents are should an emergency occur and they need speedy and effective medical treatment. Bearing in mind the types of industry (or what is left of it) are located not too far from the town, I do also wonder what would happen should a major incident with multiple and serious casualties occur (e.g. somewhere like Seal Sands...remember Flixborough?).
There was a 5 car pile up on the A689 at Wolviston this morning, what are your chances if you happened to be in the back of an ambulance in such a situation ???
How would JB`s clinicians explain away that kind of episode, would they consider the extra time taken to get you to a Hospital A&E to be a bit of a "Jolly"......
Quote from: fred c on September 11, 2012, 04: PM
There was a 5 car pile up on the A689 at Wolviston this morning, what are your chances if you happened to be in the back of an ambulance in such a situation ???
How would JB`s clinicians explain away that kind of episode, would they consider the extra time taken to get you to a Hospital A&E to be a bit of a "Jolly"......
quite worrying fred if they were rushing to your aid :-\
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=ambulance%20drivers%20letter%20about%20concerns%20in%20hartlepool&source=web&cd=4&sqi=2&ved=0CD4QFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.newsrt.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fambulance-driver-fined-trying-to-save-a-child-s-life-361804.html&ei=2SFQUPi2EImg0QWD3oGIBQ&usg=AFQjCNGoXYfouPSNhynywhQTZ1PUBv7F8g
quote by the ambulance driver:
"Last March, I was on the very same road taking an organ and was clocked 108 mph and no action was taken against me"
I know the high speed that these cars drive at is ultimately to save lives, but it poses the question "why don`t they use helicopters for such work?"
I would bet that is down to pence per mile.
Ambulance Driver seems to have disappeared....perhaps it was an emergency ;)
....and perhaps he was just lucky and the copper he dealt with had already met his quota that month. ???
Given our location I can see lots of stretchers changing at Thornaby to await the train to the Hospital.
Middlesbrough hospital appointments could be synched with trains
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tees-19602212
I note Hartlepool is not included in the planned station upgrades and to further underscore the complete ineptitude of our council Sunderland station is due another 10 million pound upgrade to match the 7 million one it got in 2010.
http://www.sunderlandecho.com/news/business/latest-news/plans-to-replace-sunderland-s-depressing-train-station-with-a-new-10million-facility-1-4924075
PLANS for a £10million scheme to transform Sunderland's run-down city-centre railway station have been unveiled.
The new proposals would see the 46-year-old building demolished and replaced with a
lightweight roof over a
new concourse and public area, with space for
either the existing or new shops.
City council bosses have agreed to back the project with a £200,000 contribution towards the next stage, which will see more detailed technical assessments and design work carried out.
The council is working with Network Rail, which owns
the station, and public transport executive Nexus – operators of the Metro – which
will share the remaining £400,000 bill for the first stage work.
Our bunch of tossers too concerned with getting new bus wheels or setting up a second hand furniture business to lobby for Hartlepool improvements!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2203809/A-E-shutdown-farce-backlash-begins.html
More fuel for the fire, it`s interesting to note the battle put up by our councillors to try & save our hospital....
They fought like "Dead Sheep" to stand up for the health & wellbeing of the people of Hartlepool, how many for instance went on the march around the town centre ????
What did they do in "Real Terms" to try & influence the now discredited North Tees & Hartlepool NHS Trust ???? the chair of the council couldn`t even be bothered to post a letter.
What are they actually doing "Now" to try & reverse the closure of services & departments of Hartlepool Hospital ???? Nothing absolutely Nothing
They are doing absolutely nothing and they are not going to either. I fully expect SAB to make a pitch for the £50,000 Chair of the Hospital Trust at some stage and that is what it has always been about. Don't forget he was the only Councillor to vote against sending that letter of no confidence to the Hospital Trust designed to score him a few points I bet.
I'm waiting for Mad Dog's new scheme to supply push bikes to the 'under-priviledged' (and the 2 new recruits to administer it)
Wouldn't surprise me.
Maybe they should give him a cash register to sit next to him on that front bench - KER . . . CHING! ;D
To be fair, haven't they just redone the train station?
I think that was Network rail though I think there was a contribution from the proposed Metro - could be wrong
What use is this? An article in tonights Mail about Thursdays Hospital Trust AGM and which gives us a matter of hours to register and by some amazing coincidence, is timed to clash with the HBC meeting of the Health and Scrutiny Forum.
PEOPLE can attend an annual meeting of Hartlepool's hospital trust.North Tees and Hartlepool NHS Foundation Trust, which hopes to build a new £300 million hospital, is holding its annual general meeting on Thursday.
The meeting is being held at Wynyard Park, Wynyard, and members of the public are welcome.
Items on the agenda include the trust's annual plan, changes to governors, and a presentation of the annual report and accounts. It will be held in the Londonderry Room of the Wynyard Rooms and registration is from 9.30am. The meeting will start at 10am and is expected to last around an hour.
Copies of the agenda, annual reports and annual accounts are available to download from the trust's website at www.nth.nhs.uk.
They are also available by appointment by contacting the director of human resources and education/company secretary on (01642) 383563.
If you would like to attend the meeting, register by emailing membership@nth.nhs.uk or call (01642) 383765 by the end of today.
We have been waiting for an announcement on the new Wynyard Hospital: perhaps this could happen today, perhaps Thursday at the AGM, perhaps, perhaps.
In the Mail today quote:
"Published on Tuesday 18 September 2012 10:44
HEALTH bosses were today set to make a major announcement on the proposed £300m hospital at Wynyard Park.
North Tees and Hartlepool NHS Foundation Trust was scheduled to make the announcement near the site where the new hospital would be built.
Trust chiefs have not revealed what the announcement will be but it concerns plans for the new hospital at Wynyard."
see http://www.hartlepoolmail.co.uk/news/local/d-day-for-300m-hospital-1-4929933
update: http://www.hartlepoolmail.co.uk/news/local/milestone-for-new-hospital-1-4932900
Mail update: http://www.hartlepoolmail.co.uk/news/local/milestone-for-new-hospital-1-4932900
From a subsequent Mail article, it seems to be the start of a 12-18 month procurement period, at the end of which they'll see how things then stand. Doubtless we should be grateful for an element of caution...at times they've sounded so desperate to go ahead that I feared lest they become prey to loan sharks.. ;).
Quote: "Another review at the end of the procurement period will give the board the final assurance it needs to take the final step to borrow the money, award contracts and begin the build. This will of course depend on the situation the trust finds itself in at the end of the 12 to 18 month procurement period. However, we hope to have a just over three-year build, and we could open the doors of the new hospital in late 2016 or early 2017."
A lot can happen in a year or so...
This reads to me that the Government review has come out to be less than enthusiastic.
Look at it from the Trust's point of view. If the chance was there to make a simple announcement that the new hospital was finally going ahead with full Government approval and with the necessary finance in place then they would be shouting it from the roof tops complete with trumpeted fanfare. This is a long way from that.
Instead, we have been given another series of 'ifs, buts and whens' with the hoped-for completion date put back from the original 2014 by another three years. That's three years more to transfer even more services to North Tees, with the passive and complicit support of HBC, which will make Hartlepool Hospital even less viable.
In three years time, costs will have increased considerably which is likely to lead to the financing having to be looked at yet again and what exactly do they mean by 'starting the procurement process'? A procurement process to me means you begin to sign contracts for services and materials; here it seems to mean 'we're going to have a look at how much everything costs and then at the end of it, see if we can afford it.'
I've long since had the same feeling about this - that the end result will simply be the closure of Hartlepool Hospital and the refurbishment of North Tees with the closure of the former and the subsequent land sale intended to help pay for the latter.
The statements made are the usual platitudes and gobbledygook.
They`ve effectively kicked the ball about in the long grass. They are not even on the fairway yet, let alone the green.
In case you ask, I am not a golfer!
Following the appointment of Jeremy HUNT as new Health Minister the Mail on Sunday have started an E-Mail poll to protest against the closure of several A and E depts.throughout the country and has highlighted Hartlepool in its articles on the matter. For anybody wanting to register their protest all you have to do is E_mail casualty@mailonsunday.co.uk and give your name, first line of your address and post code. The protest will then be forwarded to the Minister in due course. If enough people respond perhaps the matter might be looked at again. Lets hope.!!!!!!
To me, the NHS is one of the most civilising achievements of our nation. It seems to have been hijacked and diverted from its original aims and is now being reconfigured to meet the needs, not of the people, but of the men in suits and prima donna consultants with accessability being the biggest victim.
anyone detect a bit of back-tracking on the part of The Mail tonight?
Quote from: steveL on September 19, 2012, 04: PM
anyone detect a bit of back-tracking on the part of The Mail tonight?
Distinctly...also it seems that the Trust responded to the news that the independent regulator has identified six areas of potential financial risk in the manner of a truculent teenager. Maybe something along the lines of 'OMG - you're just soooo embarrassing...I'll save up my pocket money and wash the dishes for ever and ever so it's not really expensive...you're so mean...all the other trusts have got one'... ;)
You don't hear much about the number of jobs that are going to be lost to the town when Hartlepool Hospital finally closes. Or are these tossers expecting the pinkies and porters to 'relocate' like they do.
Who amongst us would bet against it ????
http://www.hartlepoolmail.co.uk/news/local/hospital-staff-move-denied-1-4941751
Bit weird, considering my previous post - coincidence though. Of course, we're all reassured by the Hosptial Trust denial aren't we?
I noticed within the spin over the announcement this week lies the promise that the Trust will subsidise a local bus service. Anyone remember the similar committment they made when Trauma was transferred to North Tees? I think it lasted a year before they pulled the plug.
"HEALTH chiefs have called for the public to get more behind their plans to build a new £300m hospital at Wynyard. Paul Garvin, chairman of North Tees and Hartlepool NHS Foundation Trust, described people's opposition to the plans as "unfortunate" at its annual general meeting yesterday."
http://www.hartlepoolmail.co.uk/news/local/hospital-bosses-plea-for-support-1-4945652 (http://www.hartlepoolmail.co.uk/news/local/hospital-bosses-plea-for-support-1-4945652)
Strange this. Does anyone remember Alan Foster's claim on Radio Tees that the majority of us were in favour of what they were doing?
Interesting to note that the online Mail front page indicates that there are five comments on this article, but none are available at the foot of the topic and the option to add comments is absent...
maybe you're only allowed to add comments once-a-week now ;)