PHF Wins Seaton By-Election

[steveL]

I reckon you're a Tory myself, pis*ed off with the large number of defections to UKIP.

Steve, you have mentioned this so-called mass exodus of Conservatives to UKIP twice in recent days and I would love for you to provide evidence to back this claim up. I hear lefties and Kippers alike claiming it's going on but other than a handful of party members who have always regarded themselves more as libertarian than Conservative, I've not seen anybody else 'jump ship'. In fact the small numbers in reality are probably equalled out by the UKIP defectors we see jointing our party on a regular basis.

So please, evidence or stop making this ridiculous claim.

Oh, hell. I'm too old to be wasting time recanting stuff that you should already be aware of - haven't you heard of Google?
http://www.google.co.uk/#hl=en&sclient=psy-ab&q=tory+defectors+ukip&oq=tory+defectors+ukip&gs_l=serp.3...18704.23238.0.23712.14.11.0.3.3.0.268.1447.4j6j1.11.0.les%3B..0.0...1c.1.AIVWe2jx4gk&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&fp=a2b18ffccd5cdbc5&biw=1280&bih=896

It's not what I think that you have to worry about, it's the views of your own right wing Eurosceptics who think that Cameron's pussy-footing over Europe will lead to votes crossing the wire to UKIP in the next election.

[steveL]

Quote: "Well given that my whole point is ABOUT the reasons, that's where we'll have to beg to differ.

Also, since we're on the subject of 'intellectual superiority' I wasn't the one who introduced a plant based metaphor into this debate. However, since it's up there, let's explore it.

You chose the Sedum, correct? Most widely used in cooking by the Haida, an indigenous tribe found off the Pacific North West coast of America."

Oh Dear, Wikipedia has its uses bonnie lad, but at your age its no substitute for a girlfriend.

[steveL]

As i explained earlier, if the October turnout is lower than May (which I think we all agree it will be) and UKIP retain their votes from the core of supporters (240) or so, that should translate into a much bigger % overall.

Also, I base it on the FACT that the only elections UKIP typically win are European Parliament ones which attract a much lower a turnout than practically any other election.

The last European elections were held on 4th June 2009 which was the same day the last Mayoral Election in Hartlepool. This prompted a relatively higher turn out and, if I remember correctly, UKIP won the European vote in Hartlepool

[SRMoore]

I reckon you're a Tory myself, pis*ed off with the large number of defections to UKIP.

Steve, you have mentioned this so-called mass exodus of Conservatives to UKIP twice in recent days and I would love for you to provide evidence to back this claim up. I hear lefties and Kippers alike claiming it's going on but other than a handful of party members who have always regarded themselves more as libertarian than Conservative, I've not seen anybody else 'jump ship'. In fact the small numbers in reality are probably equalled out by the UKIP defectors we see joining our party on a regular basis.

So please, evidence or stop making this ridiculous claim.

Oh, hell. I'm too old to be wasting time recanting stuff that you should already be aware of - haven't you heard of Google?
http://www.google.co.uk/#hl=en&sclient=psy-ab&q=tory+defectors+ukip&oq=tory+defectors+ukip&gs_l=serp.3...18704.23238.0.23712.14.11.0.3.3.0.268.1447.4j6j1.11.0.les%3B..0.0...1c.1.AIVWe2jx4gk&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&fp=a2b18ffccd5cdbc5&biw=1280&bih=896

It's not what I think that you have to worry about, it's the views of your own right wing Eurosceptics who think that Cameron's pussy-footing over Europe will lead to votes crossing the wire to UKIP in the next election.

I joined this forum following your invitation to take part in reasoned debate and discussion, not for you to attempt to talk down to me. I am not interested in petty squabling or partaking in a game of who can pee the highest. Your statement was factually incorrect as it suggested there is a mass exodus of Conservative members leaving the party for UKIP. This is not the case. As for concerning myself with upset eurosceptics within my party on a national level, I don't. My concerns lay with the issues of concern that the people of Hartlepool may have. There are enough people at CCHQ and career politicians to worry about that.

Locally it is a well known fact that UKIP get most of their votes in Hartlepool from disgruntled Labour supporters. Don't take my word for it, this came from a conversation I had with Eric Wilson last time we met.

Perhaps we can try and move the topic of discussion back onto the Seaton by-election now?

[Lucy Lass-Tick]

and if my Auntie had bollocks she'd be my uncle...

I see that we're taking the intellectual approach today...

[SRMoore]

I would disagree that grass root Conservatives have been betrayed Kipperdip. Would I like to see a referendum? Of course I would but I don't see it as being the only matter or piece of policy worth pursuing. As we both know, the country was left up the proverbial creek without a paddle and bailing us out whilst heading back to the shallows is top priority in my opinion.

Yes the EU is an important issue to many voters but it's fair to say the majority, especially in Seaton are more concerners about landfill sites, derelict eyesores, lack of transport and jobs are far more important.

[steveL]

. . . and there's far more chance of those issues being properly aired and discussed during a stand-alone by-election than if it was tagged on to a Mayoral Referendum and Police Commissioner's election.

We seem to have come full-circle.

[SRMoore]

I am in the correct party, I am a Conservative - Not a Libertarian. If agreeing with one policy is justification to jump ship then I'd have joined Labour a long time ago since I agree with a nationalised rail service. The gates of hell would freeze over before I'd do that!

I am no more responsible for landfill sites in Seaton than Tom is from a time when UKIP had Cllrs on HBC. Point fingers all you want KD, that doesn't help the people of Seaton now does it? Action does. I'm not getting into a slagging match over it KD, it's pointless and achieves nothing.

Please give my regards to Tom.

[steveL]

Do you seriously think that Ken Lupton is going to be knocking on doors in the Seaton Ward? No it's the local Smurfs that will be doing that and common sense tells you that, for their own convenience, they will try to cover the Police Commisioner's Job, The Mayoral Referendum and the Local Issues in one visit.

[SRMoore]

I have already stated once that Ken Luptons campaign is completely seperate. I will not be canvassing on his behalf during the by-election. Nor will I be campaigning either way for the mayoral referendum, we never intended to.

[mk1]

I have already stated once that Ken Luptons campaign is completely seperate. I will not be canvassing on his behalf during the by-election. Nor will I be campaigning either way for the mayoral referendum, we never intended to.

You are but a shadow of your former self.
Pity about the knock-back for the car boot sale..............

[The Great Dictator]

Who is Ken Lupton ?

[SRMoore]

So the extra 3 weeks would have been helpful in terms of meeting as many 'Seatoners' as possible? Hearing their views? Telling them your plans if elected etc?

Yes of course. I do however respect and believe in democracy so whilst I believe November 15th would have been a better date and more convenient for everybody involved, including the residents of the Seaton ward, I'll get on with the task in hand and try to get around to speak to as many residents as possible in the shorter time frame. I can only apologise in advance if I don't get to speak to everybody but would point out that all of my contact details are freely available on the Hartlepool Conservatives website which is linked at the top of this site.

[SRMoore]

Who is Ken Lupton ?

He is the Conservative PCC candidate. I have linked his website in the Police Commissioner thread so as not to cross threads even more.

[marky]

Now that Former Chairman of the Local Tory Party, Dave Young is to stand as an Independent then I would think the Tories may as well stay at home and watch Downton to take their minds off the split vote. Is there a level at which Parties can lose their deposit?