A local slant from the Guardian on what looks like becoming a major national social issue leaves me with a feeling of distinct trepidation for those Hartlepudlians who are in the firing line ... feels very, very wrong on so many levels ... :'(
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2013/jan/25/spare-bedroom-tax-contradiction-impossibility
It is one of the most stupid moves ever brought about.
The intention was to get at those living in expensive houses in London where all houses are expensive, even cheap ones!
The effect in Hartlepool will be to blight the 2 bedroomed terraced house that at present make up a substantial proportion of the 'poorer' end on the rented sector.
Single people/Childless couples are having to either fork out the extra themselves or try and find cheap one bedroomed flats. You can have absurd situations where some people will be forced out of cheaper 2 bed houses into dearer (and much much scarcer)1 bed flats.
I see many boarded up terraced houses coming down the path.
A typical knee-jerk Tory action designed to curry favour with their back bench cave-men and pander to the desire to make the poor suffer for their failure.
The real villains are the Landlords but rather than go directly for them Cameron has decided to let the unlucky tenants fight that battle for him. Eventually he hopes to drive down rents but he can not come straight out and say it. If the 'poor' suffer then than that is a price he is willing to (let them) pay.
Perhaps Shane can give us the official Hartlepool Tory line on this-after asking Ray what his view the official line is!
All in this together...... what this "Eton Mess" of a coalition government seem to forget is that what they are talking about isn`t "BEDROOMS", But peoples "HOMES"... homes where they may have spent years, bringing up a family, having happy memories, having memories of family members that have passed on.
What can people expect if forced from their Homes, moving to a souless estate, knowing no one, not being part of a community, feeling an outcast....... typical Tory thinking....... demonise the poorest & least able to manage.
How many bedrooms does "Dave, Gideon & Nicholas" have i wonder, this is bordering on the Ghetto-isation of British People.............. shame on any council who implement this scheme
I have left out names to protect those mentioned in this farce on moving people out of their home because the family no longer live with their parents.
A dear friend lost her husband Housing Hartlepool contacted her that same week telling her she had to move or they would put her out.
I sorted these people for her, she does not have to move and can live there without fear of being forced out.
BUT HOW MANY OTHERS HAVE NO ONE TO STAND UP FOR THEM?
She brought up her family paid her rent on time and they expect ' demand ' she moves into a housing hartlepool flat.
Incidently she was not informed that because she was a pensioner THEY COULD NOT MAKE HER MOVE.
They forgot to tell her that bit..
Quote from: mk1 on January 30, 2013, 07: PM
You can have absurd situations where some people will be forced out of cheaper 2 bed houses into dearer (and much much scarcer)1 bed flats.
I see many boarded up terraced houses coming down the path.
What a load of bollocks! A typical knee jerk scaremongering from MK1. What you are saying is that people will be forced out of two bedroom houses/flats and forced into more expensive 1bed flats because of £12 difference?
Your whole summary, Freds too I must add, is completely untrue. Its bugger all to do with landlords or driving down rent prices.
Personally I won't defend the bedroom tax because as its name clearly points out, its another tax. I don't oppose the bedroom tax despite being a Conservative, I oppose it because ,unlike Mr Cameron, I am a Conservative and believe in CUTTING taxes, not making new ones up which hits the strivers. That's Labours forte.
Well done to Tankerville for standing up for someone who needed the support. When bereavement occurs, the very last thing that is needed is for those left behind to be pushed into making additional changes and adding to their distress; surely this is especially important at a time when they're probably struggling to think straight?
Officialdom doesn't seem to bear a humane face ... my father died in early December, but several weeks on the DWP has yet to arrange mother's pension. It appears that a member of staff erased his (already logged) date of death from their system, which meant starting all over again. As a family we thank God that she isn't dependent on their 'largesse', but many, many others are - what do these poor souls do when facing heartbreak plus penury?
To me, this lack of humanity isn't just about politics ... I endorse neither Labour nor Tory values per se ... it's more about this society's apparent abdication of moral responsibility.
Quote from: SRMoore on January 30, 2013, 08: PM
What you are saying is that people will be forced out of two bedroom houses/flats and forced into more expensive 1bed flats because of £12 difference?
Yes.
It seems to me you have no idea how it works.
If you have 2 bedrooms you lose a % of your rent.
If you only have 1 you don't.
I am willing to admit that to some people 12 quid is a piddling amount but when you are on the margins it can push you under.
Now we know why Wonga contribute to the Tory Party.
Quote from: SRMoore on January 30, 2013, 08: PM
Your whole summary, Freds too I must add, is completely untrue. Its bugger all to do with landlords or driving down rent prices.
Now you are talking bollocks. The aim is to drive down rents. Landlords are more inclined to vote Tory so you do not go directly after them.
You get others to do your dirty work.
Quote from: SRMoore on January 30, 2013, 08: PMnot making new ones up which hits the strivers.
Typical. You trying to say the people who will be hit are not 'strivers' but 'skivers'?
Do you not realise working people get Housing costs met?
Rich Bankers bonuses can be paid in the billions (via the taxpayer) but 12 quid a week to the poor will sink the economy.
There is an implied suggestion here that, while the better-off live in homes; the less-well-off merely live in houses.
So a family living in a rented property and who bring up there kids as best they can, sooner or later see those kids fly-the-nest and as a result find themselves hit with this extra cost (tax) at a time when at best, their income will be flattening off, or worse, falling. Gone will be the days when grandkids arrive and they can look forward to having them sleeping over for a day or too - and this from a Government which goes on about the breakup of the extended family. Inconsistent? Consistently so.
All of these non-sensical changes stem from the views of people who stand outside of the reality of the UK in 2013 - they are observers looking in, discussing their ideas for change with Dinner Guests over a nice bottle of Claret . . . absolutely clueless.
Quote from: steveL on January 30, 2013, 09: PM
All of these non-sensical changes stem from the views of people who stand outside of the reality of the UK in 2013 - they are observers looking in, discussing their ideas for change with Dinner Guests over a nice bottle of Claret . . . absolutely clueless.
More to the point dancing to the tune of media barons and sucking up to the ones who live just down the road from you by bunging them a free Police horse.
I suppose that is the way you end up thinking when Jeremy Clarkson is one of your select 'Chipping Norton' set.
In case Shane does not know it if you have 2 children under 10 they are only allowed 1 bedroom between them.
If you're a separated or divorced couple who share the care of your children, only one of you will be allowed extra rooms; if the other keeps a bedroom for the kids, it'll still be deemed "spare". If a family contains two children of the same sex under 16, they must share, and the same will apply to mixed-sex children under 10. As the Holdens have discovered, whether a disabled child is entitled to a room of their own is a matter of some uncertainty, apparently being left to local authorities.
There will be no exceptions for foster carers, who might need extra space for children they look after. Even if a family or couple has had a house or flat kitted out with must-have facilities for someone who's disabled, if they're deemed to be under-occupying, they'll still be penalisedThe poor must pay for the bankings sectors years of fraud.
Return of the Nasty Party - same ol' Tories.
Quote from: mk1 on January 30, 2013, 09: PM
Quote from: SRMoore on January 30, 2013, 08: PM
What you are saying is that people will be forced out of two bedroom houses/flats and forced into more expensive 1bed flats because of £12 difference?
Yes.
It seems to me you have no idea how it works.
If you have 2 bedrooms you lose a % of your rent.
If you only have 1 you don't.
but you suggested that the new 1 bedroom flat would cost more than the 2 bed house so the £12 extra for the two bed house would still be cheaper by your reckoning. See how sensationalizing/scaremongering in your original post ruins your argument?
I am willing to admit that to some people 12 quid is a piddling amount but when you are on the margins it can push you under.
Now we know why Wonga contribute to the Tory Party.
Quote from: SRMoore on January 30, 2013, 08: PM
Your whole summary, Freds too I must add, is completely untrue. Its bugger all to do with landlords or driving down rent prices.
Now you are talking bollocks. The aim is to drive down rents. Landlords are more inclined to vote Tory so you do not go directly after them.
You get others to do your dirty work.
bollocks again. I believe Stephen Allison would gladly tell you again that he'd never vote Conservative. Also, you do realize that the majority of people affected by this in Hartlepool will be remnants in social housing and not those oppressed by your evil private landlords.
Quote from: SRMoore on January 30, 2013, 08: PMnot making new ones up which hits the strivers.
Typical. You trying to say the people who will be hit are not 'strivers' but 'skivers'?
Do you not realise working people get Housing costs met?
Re-read what I wrote and explain how me suggesting this tax was unnecessary and hitting strivers is translates to "everybody on housing benefits are skivers" in your warped world.
Rich Bankers bonuses can be paid in the billions (via the taxpayer) but 12 quid a week to the poor will sink the economy. Ahh yes... When all else fails resort to banker bashing to solve all of the worlds ills.
MK1, I'm fully aware of the specifics of the bedroom tax. I think you missed this in one of my previous posts
"Personally I won't defend the bedroom tax because as its name clearly points out, its another tax. I don't oppose the bedroom tax despite being a Conservative, I oppose it because ,unlike Mr Cameron, I am a Conservative and believe in CUTTING taxes, not making new ones up which hits the strivers. That's Labours forte. "
Who bailed out the corrupt bankers?
Quote from: SRMoore on January 30, 2013, 10: PM
Ahh yes... When all else fails resort to banker bashing to solve all of the worlds ills. [/b]
I think you will find that in the last decade they were responsible for the world's ills.
Remind me again. How many bankers have been jailed in the USA and how many in the UK?
I could not respond to your other outbursts because frankly I can't make head nor tail of the point you are trying to make. It is painfully obvious you have no understanding of what it is like to not be able to (for example) get on a bus because you have no money.
Quote from: SRMoore on January 30, 2013, 10: PM
"
Who bailed out the corrupt bankers?
Corrupt politicians.
Are you not a politician?
Quote from: mk1 on January 30, 2013, 10: PM
Quote from: SRMoore on January 30, 2013, 10: PM
Ahh yes... When all else fails resort to banker bashing to solve all of the worlds ills. [/b]
I think you will find that in the last decade they were responsible for the world's ills.
Remind me again. How many bankers have been jailed in the USA and how many in the UK?
I could not respond to your other outbursts because frankly I can't make head nor tail of the point you are trying to make. It is painfully obvious you have no understanding of what it is like to not be able to (for example) get on a bus because you have no money.
I believe I probably understand what that feels like much more than you. Sorry to disappoint you and shatter your stereotype of all Tories being rich and out of touch. The occasional luxuries we enjoy are solely possible because of strict budgeting of our household income.
Now if you'll excuse me I'm off to bed as I have to up at 5am to ride to work. X
How can anybody trust greedy deceitful millionaire bankers and politicians when they call people scroungers for working hard to scrape by on the meagre percentage of their wages they are allowed to keep. Housing benefit for many is effectively paying a little less tax so the landlord or the landlord's money lender can line his pockets ...not winning the lottery.
The common working man is treated like dirt and a fool in this country. There is every excuse for a revolution.
It is not as though any of the major parties will bring significant change as they are all led by millionaire toffs.
We have our Hartlepool food bank now, what is next for the town ?
We do not have to look far to find out how this 'ruling class' line their own pockets at our expense. We have our own band of robber barons looting the public purse whilst at the same time proclaiming their support for the downtrodden masses.
Look at Angie. She is making money hand over fist whilst at the same time moving far away from the people she pretends to represent.
First chance she gets she moves up the park to escape her 'social housing' roots. No chance of her present dog starving as it has a solid gold feeding bowl.
The biggest (in all senses of the word) looters have to be the F*atty Belchers. Those two had perfected the art of expense claims/donations/compensation payments looting to a fine art. This is an activity they learned from Mandy. Who can forget the F*atty Belchers comment to the Sunday Mail reporter who doorstepped them about the money Mandy fiddled them for 'gardening' work. The famous 'how did you find out' followed by the sound of a slamming door!
They have a combined income that others can only dream of. Their every waking moment is spent promoting themselves and their charidee work. 'Donations' are requested and Pariah firms (noting the low 5000 price of facilitating the hospital closure) fall over themselves to help them build their empire. It is only a matter of time before they are running a firm that will be awarded huge council contracts in some 'yoof' related scheme that requires demonstrations invoving prophylactics, bananas and lubricating cream.
A few quotes from the Guardian article from a 'spokesman' occupying the Department of Work and Pensions:
Question: "How will people's use of bedrooms be monitored?
Answer: "It is a responsibility of the claimant to inform us of the size of a property and those living in it,"
Question: "And what of the chronic shortage of smaller properties in such places as Hartlepool?
Answer: "We acknowledge that most people will not move. There are other options available such as taking up employment, increasing hours worked or taking in a lodger".
I think the revolution is somewhat overdue.
Quote from: SRMoore on January 30, 2013, 08: PM
Quote from: mk1 on January 30, 2013, 07: PM
You can have absurd situations where some people will be forced out of cheaper 2 bed houses into dearer (and much much scarcer)1 bed flats.
I see many boarded up terraced houses coming down the path.
What a load of bollocks! A typical knee jerk scaremongering from MK1. What you are saying is that people will be forced out of two bedroom houses/flats and forced into more expensive 1bed flats because of £12 difference?
Your whole summary, Freds too I must add, is completely untrue. Its bugger all to do with landlords or driving down rent prices.
Personally I won't defend the bedroom tax because as its name clearly points out, its another tax. I don't oppose the bedroom tax despite being a Conservative, I oppose it because ,unlike Mr Cameron, I am a Conservative and believe in CUTTING taxes, not making new ones up which hits the strivers. That's Labours forte.
If it's only a piddling twelve quid, why bother charging it in the first place? A tax or the dalek like logic of people with no concept of other peoples lives?
Quote from: Riddler5 on January 31, 2013, 07: AM
Quote from: SRMoore on January 30, 2013, 08: PM
Quote from: mk1 on January 30, 2013, 07: PM
You can have absurd situations where some people will be forced out of cheaper 2 bed houses into dearer (and much much scarcer)1 bed flats.
I see many boarded up terraced houses coming down the path.
What a load of bollocks! A typical knee jerk scaremongering from MK1. What you are saying is that people will be forced out of two bedroom houses/flats and forced into more expensive 1bed flats because of £12 difference?
Your whole summary, Freds too I must add, is completely untrue. Its bugger all to do with landlords or driving down rent prices.
Personally I won't defend the bedroom tax because as its name clearly points out, its another tax. I don't oppose the bedroom tax despite being a Conservative, I oppose it because ,unlike Mr Cameron, I am a Conservative and believe in CUTTING taxes, not making new ones up which hits the strivers. That's Labours forte.
If it's only a piddling twelve quid, why bother charging it in the first place? A tax or the dalek like logic of people with no concept of other peoples lives?
I guess all of those £12 quids add up to a lot when you look at it nationally. Still doesn't make it right though.
What is a bedroom ?
If you take the door off a room is it still a room or an extension of the outer space ?
If you place a sofa in the room instead of a bed, is it still a bedroom ?
I believe a bedroom has to have a window to be classed as such, so if you board the window up does it break the law if it is classed as a bedroom ?
I think we're looking at a 2013 baby-boom........