I'm told that if I'm more careful about how I recycle I could save the council a pound or two. What's more, the council tell me they are very interested in any ideas I may have to save money. After reading the latest on the front page, I believe it would be very cost effective if the taxpayer funded a one-way trip to Antarctica for the Akers-Belchers, Mr Wells and the rest of the incompetent idiots running this town into the ground.
www.hartlepoolpost.co.uk
Was half expecting something like this. Two ceremonial meetings of the council after the local elections in May, a 40 minute 'let's get this out of the way' meeting last week and not another meeting of the full council until September. The perfect time to try and slip something like this through.
What a complete bunch of f**kwits, we have controlling Hartlepool, this particular vision will have cost council tax payers around £2million by the time the loan is paid back.
Remind me again who is chair & vice chair of HBC's Regeneration Committee........Ohhhhh yes, Cllrs Cranney & Lying Ste Akers B.
Only in Hartlepool & Only Under the LabTor Mob
where are we going to wait for a ride on the Ferris wheel if they knock it down ?
Maybe the concrete footing will act as the base for the giant ferris wheel
There are a few more details on the as yet unpublished agenda for the meeting on the 22nd:
http://tinyurl.com/z6mnwjr (http://tinyurl.com/z6mnwjr)
They don't have a buyer for the building; they don't have a buyer for the land but as things stand, they still have two chances to sell it.
So they spend £40.000 demolishing the building - that leaves them just with the land. So if someone did eventually come along with a plan to buy the building it will be too late because now they only have one chance to sell it.
Go figure.
I read that Jacksons Landing has stood empty for 10 years, 3 of which have been under council ownership. So I was intrigued how and why the sudden prospect of demolition has sprung from nowhere. I took the time to read the report attached to the agenda for the 22nd July meeting and other than the very thin suggestion that a national hotel group may be interested in building a hotel on part of the site there doesn't seem to be much prospect of any development taking place soon.
Also, the next full council meeting is not due until September 8th, just two days before the We Are Family concert, immediately after which the council says it will begin demolition.
That doesn't leave much time for the matter to be discussed in full council, as it surely should be discussed, so I wonder if some kind soul could find a way to video the Regeneration Services committee meeting on the 22nd July. I'm sure I'm not the only one who would have liked to attend this meeting but unlike many councillors, I and many others still have to work for a living.
I'm open to suggestions why this whole matter seems to be so rushed especially when you consider the lethargy surrounding the future of far more derelict buildings such as the Odeon, Longscar and Shades.
The demolition in itself is not the problem. The purchase of the building is. There was never the remotest possibility the Council could sell it on. Lies were told in order to make it look as if it was a 'bargain'. Now they are telling more lies in order to make it look as if they can now sell it on. Time will tell but the track record shows that the only people who will build there is the council itself in order to save its own face.
It's worth just giving this another viewing to appreciate how far things have drifted already.
https://youtu.be/li3YK2YNANo
I spotted a sound bite from Mr Stubbs where he says 'it's a good building' Well what does HE know! LOL
Wonder what the real story is behind Damien Wilson's leaving. Was he made a better OFFER
It's a secured loan, so before they can demolish, that loan must be repaid or the charge of security on the building will not be removed.
Where exactly are they going to find £1.6 m ?.Ray Well's saving account maybe.
I can't believe what I've just witnessed in this meeting today. I'm not even talking about the decision to demolish the building.
I hope it was captured on film.
Potentially by BBC Look North . . .
Cranney really is the most obnoxious public leech. No one is going to take regeneration seriously while Cranney is Chair and SAB Vice-Chair of the Regeneration Committee. I seriously doubt if, even between them, their joint IQ breaks the 30 barrier required to acknowledge someone is capable of sentient thought.
http://www.hartlepoolpost.co.uk
Quote from: Alnwickist on July 18, 2016, 10: AM
It's a secured loan, so before they can demolish, that loan must be repaid or the charge of security on the building will not be removed.
Where exactly are they going to find £1.6 m ?.Ray Well's saving account maybe.
The loan would be secured against the value of the land not the building which is only a tin shed.
At least they will save on the cost of Security Guards after it has been demolished.
The tin shed must be worth more as a potential asset to an interested party than the scrap value.
It could always be knocked down quick enough as part of a sale agreement.
How the amateurs get away with such expensive decisions without professional scrutiny is baffling.
I can see no benefit to Hartlepool in HBC's attempt at property speculation.
Therefore that leads me to be suspicious that there was some other motive of self interest from those directly involved in the decision.
Do we have councillors living beyond their visible means of income ?
I left the meeting after Cranney shut down all further discussion on Jacksons Landing. I told him I was going to check if he had recently set up a demolition company.
...one staffed by apprentices and volunteers ?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tees-36868760 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tees-36868760)
Imagine that Jacksons Landing doesn't exist for a minute.
One day, we catch the Mail headline in Morison's which says that a developer has popped up from nowhere with a plan to build a Factory Outlet unit on the same site on the Marina in a building remarkably similar.
The story goes on to tell us of new beginnings and of the tens, if not hundreds, of new jobs that will be created with appropriate quotes from Denise Ogden and Christopher of how the development shows business confidence in the Vision Masterplan is booming and that it's only the start of things to come. We would be told that Factory Outlets are the 'in thing' and given Dalton Park as an example.
Today, we were told that the market has changed, that the Jacksons Landing building is old and not fit for use - and that's really the problem.
Both scenarios are equally possible from a council that is clearly functioning like a blind man in a dark room. No idea oh where it has been, where it wants to go or how it's going to get there. Perhaps none of that really matters so long as the change generates cash from somewhere and that Cranney gets a slice of it.
http://www.hartlepoolpost.co.uk
The topic featured on Look North, but an interview at Jacksons Landing wasn't conducted by Bullyboy Cranney, instead Lying Ste was wheeled out to point out HBC hadn't wasted money on The Big Tin Shed........ He's looking kind of porkie again, maybe he needs to get back into training at the the Domes Gym.
You got to see Cranney bawling and shouting and then the blob was interviewed at JL using his best helium-induced squeaky voice.
We were told (again) 'several' developers have expressed an interest in the site-its the way he tells them!
Interesting that Cranney was kept under lock and key and yet the best substitute they could find was handsome Ste and apparently, according to him, developers are lining up which makes me wonder why they didn't mention it at the meeting - well not actually, they admitted that no developers were lining up other than a 'maybe' from a hotel chain that wants to build on the car park.
Silly thing to say, really given that we were also told that developers were lining up when HBC first bought it.
https://youtu.be/DOXB-e1YcPI
History Man has put some salacious gossip on The Mail comments page.
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/922/GiTHgP.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/pmGiTHgPj)
http://m.hartlepoolmail.co.uk/news/local/complaint-made-against-hartlepool-deputy-leader-of-council-following-meeting-1-8029542?ref=BreakingNewsTeesside&utm_medium=facebook#comments-area
A sanitised version of the complaint. Cranney is "an asset". That's not the term I'd have used to describe him. I'd have gone with 'leech' or possibly 'parasite'.
Ms Ogden now saying they are negotiations with a hotel group, did she mention this at last nights fiasco ?
She did yes, but negotiations were described as being in the "embryonic stage".
Both Cranney and SAB looked extremely confused at that point, I think I even saw one of them quickly googling the word embryonic. ;-)
Whats the odds, the reason Cranney had another meltdown will be placed fairly & squarely on the heads of myself, steveL & Paul Thompson, I have personnal eperience of the councillor blame game.........the explanation of Lying Ste over a supposed assault in the Masefield Centre was at odds with that of myself & 2 highly respected council officers.
Ironic that he was, even then prone to telling porkies pies & we all know how his last employment ended.
This business about a hotel group being interested seems a little convenient. With two big hotel chains operating from the marina already I would be very surprised if we see another one on the JL site. ::)
Anyone with half a brain can see that the decision ("sound decision" my a**e Stephen!) to demolish is totally ridiculous. The question is, why are they so determined for this to happen when is goes against all logic? There has got to be something else behind this which I'm sure will become apparent at some stage.
As for Cranney... Well done Paul Thompson for taking a stand again. Unfortunately I can't see the totally inept powers that be doing anything about it as usual. "Great asset"? Lose two little letters off the end of that and we are getting somewhere near reality.
Denise Ogden did mention a 'national hotel chain' bit it at a very early stage, I think the word used was 'embryonic', and from what I have read elsewhere, we are talking about a relatively small footprint building on the present car park of Jacksons Landing. I agree we must be reaching saturation point on the Hotel front - hotels which are full of contractors, by the way, not tourists. At some point, those who have been running family hotels and bed & breakfast places for years are going to start kicking off about the likes of Premier and Travelodge stealing their business. Both have a place in a growing market but we are not in the position of unlimited growth.
I agree there is a suspicion of something lying behind this sudden plan to demolish Jacksons landing and that it's something to watch.
Personally, tidying up the site, clearing the weeds, repairing the fallen walls and broken windows and even prettying the place up by putting a few flags on the numerous flagpoles would be a far cheaper option. It's fairly easy to make a place look occupied and cancel out any impression of dereliction.
As I have said, anyone wanting to sell a house tidies up the garden and touches up the paintwork before putting it up on the market. what they don't do is leave it to determinate like HBC have done with Jacksons Landing.
They are calling Jacksons Landing 'a monument to failure'. Perhaps they should be thinking about whose failure it is.
Look North Video and SAB talking about the developers (plural) coming forward saying, "we're interested in this site"....total fabrication........ one enquiry said to be in the 'embryonic' stage from a national hotel chain..... that's it.
https://youtu.be/KbUmgXvcwtQ
oh, Christopher, you really shouldn't have been silly enough to say that....... We're preparing Cranney's video CV as I type .....
Quote from the front page story:
". . . Cranney adjourned the meeting for 5 minutes in a huff accusing one member of the public of being 'a wife beater' as a parting shot before leaving the room . . . this is Hartlepool Borough Council in 2016"
Quote from Christopher Akers-Belcher in the Hartlepool Mail:
"my deputy is a great asset to the council and an excellent chair of Regeneration Policy Committee, driving forward to realise the ambition our council has for Hartlepool."
Is it possible that we have the most corrupt and dysfunctional council in the UK?
The council's Spin Department goes into overdrive in a rushed damage limitation exercise.
http://www.hartlepoolmail.co.uk/news/local/hotel-plan-being-discussed-for-jacksons-landing-1-8029532
Puzzled. Deja vu?
Was the meeting stopped or adjourned?
Was it only restarted after the objectors had left the room?
Another example of the Council limiting residents participation? Censorship in other words?
It was adjourned, though Cranney struggled with the terminology and had to be guided by Fred Corbett (every little helps!). In return, Cranney accused Fred of being a' wife -beater'.... now there's gratitude for you! There wasn't a lot of point in staying as the whole meeting was nothing more than a rubber stamp exercise.
Cranney had been exiled to the gulag of the OFCA farm today having been given a pair of HBC issue shades to aid his disguise (although a sock in his mouth would probably have been more effective.) Perhaps the Mrs was running short of horse feed again.
I notice that the 'Hotel for Jacksons Landing' story is given full prominence on the Front Page of the Hartlepool Mail tonight - clearly an emergency phone call from Alistair was required to Joy after the disaster of Cranney's meeting yesterday.
I think it's probably best for the town of Hartlepool if people simply stop buying this prostitute of a newspaper now.
hang on a cotton picking moment..........................
t must be true because SAB says so................... NO MONEY HAS BEEN WASTED ON JACKSONS LANDING.
So the 1.5 million cost to purchase land and property
The cost of interest on the loan
The cost of demolition
none of that is wasted money................ because developers are queuing up to buy up a block of concrete!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hartlepool deserves so much better, than these semi illiterate losers
You really couldn`t make this up, staggering, simply staggering
https://www.housinghartlepool.co.uk/page/our-board
I wonder if, the s**t hits the fan a some point, Lying Ste would deny he was a Director ?
A revisited example of Cranney's aggression of which the number of examples are mounting up.
https://youtu.be/kfZpZgzGcUE
"in the wrong hands jacksons landing could be a drag "
excuse me but it is in the wrong hands if cranney is antwhere near it ::)
Quote from: kevplumb on July 24, 2016, 07: AM
"in the wrong hands jacksons landing could be a drag "
excuse me but it is in the wrong hands if cranney is antwhere near it ::)
It's been in the wrong hands since the Council bought it !!
I must admit after hearing Cranney speak the letter 'H' couldn't have been in the alphabet at his school.
What Dave Riddle would have probably liked to have said to Cranney is that the 'timings' of the Meetings are deliberately arranged so certain people can't attend them.
just in case you're wondering where it's gone
http://www.hartlepoolpost.co.uk/article_jacksons%20landing%20demolition.htm
I have every sympathy for Mr Riddle and the many other councilors who live in the real world and go to work for a living then in their spare time attend meetings etc to represent their ward in their duties as a councilor, what people need to understand is that Mr Cranney is unfortunately the monkey that escaped the noose, he has the intelligence of an ape and the gob that spews out the contents of a babies potty almost on a daily basis, fact being is the council have taken out loans and used tax payers money to essentially fund their own business ventures and ime sorry to say this and people may disagree with me but money and Councilor Cranney equals a disaster, his track record speaks volumes and ultimately the Jacksons Landing saga will end up where the site will be cleared and it will end up being sold to the likes of Jomast or John s**n* and Co and earmarked for flats, there is already a hotel ( actually several ) hotels within walking distance of the marina and another one is not necessary, once the site is cleared it will be backhanders galore and the site will be sold for a song leaving the tax payer to foot the bill once again.
We need an independent inquiry into several councilors and their business dealings don't rely on Devlin to follow through with complaints, hes as bad of not worse than the Labour Mob, as for Cranney, this is what happens when you give the apes too many bananas.... They go wild.
Being cursed with a long memory, I can remember Mandale's original 'plan' for the centre block of Navigation Point to be a hotel. They changed their mind and opted to use it for flats instead at £550 per month. We were told at the time that the ubiquitous 'marketing study' had revealed that there was no demand for a hotel.
The aborted development at Trincomallee Wharf also included a 7 storey hotel and we've had the Travelodge built since then. The Masterplan (sic) for Victoria Park was also to include a hotel and Jomast's stalled plan for the Wesley is ..... guess what .........to convert it into a hotel. Anyone recognise a pattern here?
At some point, the family run hotels and B&B places scattered around the town are going to start kicking off about all this talk of hotels which, at the end of the day, are full of contractors from Dundee working for Hereema, not tourists.
Quote from: steveL on July 24, 2016, 02: PM
Being cursed with a long memory, I can remember Mandale's original 'plan' for the centre block of Navigation Point to be a hotel. They changed their mind and opted to use it for flats instead at £550 per month. We were told at the time that the ubiquitous 'marketing study' had revealed that there was no demand for a hotel.
The aborted development at Trincomallee Wharf also included a 7 storey hotel and we've had the Travelodge built since then. The Masterplan (sic) for Victoria Park was also to include a hotel and Jomast's stalled plan for the Wesley is ..... guess what .........to convert it into a hotel. Anyone recognise a pattern here?
At some point, the family run hotels and B&B places scattered around the town are going to start kicking off about all this talk of hotels which, at the end of the day, are full of contractors from Dundee working for Hereema, not tourists.
Steve your comment might have been 'tongue in cheek' but I don't recall in my time anyone from Dundee or any where from 'out of town' working at Hereema. All the labour there was from the surrounding area apart from the odd specialist contractor who were only1 or 2 people.
The contractors in the town are in general a only a few Shopfitters now and again.
I don't think the town is full of contractors like the days in the construction of the Power Station, Laings and the Seal Sands.
QuoteThe contractors in the town are in general a only a few Shopfitters now and again.
On first reading, I thought that read 'shoplifters' which brought a chuckle - but then you never know!
I have a couple of friends who work at Premier and the Travelodge who tell me their clientele is mainly made up of contractors. The real point being that we are not being overrun with tourists which is where the council keep telling us the demand is coming from - I don't see it myself.
I have heard, second hand, but from a Jomast employee, that Jomast have pretty much given up on Hartlepool and have no plans to build anything else.
I'd be interested to know from you what sort of number of Hereema employees are from Hartlepool. I've seen posts on here suggesting that quite a few are from the wider area, especially Tyneside. I ask because I believe there is a serious skill shortage in Hartlepool and while I think the C of FE does a grand job, it does seem to be heavily focussed on young people. I doubt if many 40 -45 year olds would feel comfortable trying to reskill themselves whilst surrounded by post-pubescent fellow students.
Incidentally, I gather this site is quite popular with the College's upper echelons (or was that epsilons?)
Quote from: ashamedtobebritish on July 24, 2016, 02: PM
I have every sympathy for Mr Riddle and the many other councilors who live in the real world and go to work for a living then in their spare time attend meetings etc to represent their ward in their duties as a councilor, what people need to understand is that Mr Cranney is unfortunately the monkey that escaped the noose, he has the intelligence of an ape and the gob that spews out the contents of a babies potty almost on a daily basis, fact being is the council have taken out loans and used tax payers money to essentially fund their own business ventures and ime sorry to say this and people may disagree with me but money and Councilor Cranney equals a disaster, his track record speaks volumes and ultimately the Jacksons Landing saga will end up where the site will be cleared and it will end up being sold to the likes of Jomast or John s**n* and Co and earmarked for flats, there is already a hotel ( actually several ) hotels within walking distance of the marina and another one is not necessary, once the site is cleared it will be backhanders galore and the site will be sold for a song leaving the tax payer to foot the bill once again.
We need an independent inquiry into several councilors and their business dealings don't rely on Devlin to follow through with complaints, hes as bad of not worse than the Labour Mob, as for Cranney, this is what happens when you give the apes too many bananas.... They go wild.
I think you might find this link useful.
http://www.ef.com/english-resources/english-grammar/period-full-stop-or-point/
Quote from: steveL on July 24, 2016, 03: PM
QuoteThe contractors in the town are in general a only a few Shopfitters now and again.
On first reading, I thought that read 'shoplifters' which brought a chuckle - but then you never know!
I have a couple of friends who work at Premier and the Travelodge who tell me their clientele is mainly made up of contractors. The real point being that we are not being overrun with tourists which is where the council keep telling us the demand is coming from - I don't see it myself.
I have heard, second hand, but from a Jomast employee, that Jomast have pretty much given up on Hartlepool and have no plans to build anything else.
I'd be interested to know from you what sort of number of Hereema employees are from Hartlepool. I've seen posts on here suggesting that quite a few are from the wider area, especially Tyneside. I ask because I believe there is a serious skill shortage in Hartlepool and while I think the C of FE does a grand job, it does seem to be heavily focussed on young people. I doubt if many 40 -45 year olds would feel comfortable trying to reskill themselves whilst surrounded by post-pubescent fellow students.
Incidentally, I gather this site is quite popular with the College's upper echelons (or was that epsilons?)
The employees and contractors were mostly from Teesside, I can't recall any from Tyneside. One of my Bosses of the sub contractors a few years ago there refused to employ anyone with a phone number pre fixed by 0191. Hartlepool doesn't have the number of Welders, Platers, Electricians required when there is a major contract ongoing there.
QuoteHartlepool doesn't have the number of Welders, Platers, Electricians required when there is a major contract ongoing there.
That's just a crazy situation but it kind of fits in with what I was suggesting . . . this is the sort of thing HBC should be focussing on instead of fannying about with 'Visions'. Having said that, the 0191 exclusion seems a bit harsh. Isn't Peterlee 0191? There's nothing wrong with people from the collieries that a tub of multivitamins and a basic introduction to vegetables couldn't cure.
Quote from: steveL on July 24, 2016, 04: PM
QuoteHartlepool doesn't have the number of Welders, Platers, Electricians required when there is a major contract ongoing there.
That's just a crazy situation but it kind of fits in with what I was suggesting . . . this is the sort of thing HBC should be focussing on instead of fannying about with 'Visions'
Not really a major conttract could require 800 trades persons but only for a few months, after that you have to move on some where else. Hartlepool doesn't have a major employer to support that amount of personnel on a regular basis.
The U.K. doesnt have an Engineering base any more, we stopped building Power Stations, Ships, Oil Rigs etc the Pits, Steelworks, ICI used to provide the tradesman through training apprentices but there all gone now.
In some respect there is no point training hundreds of tradesman when there are no jobs for them.
If Hinkley goes ahead it will be managed by the French and you will find that probably they will 'import' their own labour.
Quote from: steveL on July 23, 2016, 12: PM
Look North Video and SAB talking about the developers (plural) coming forward saying, "we're interested in this site"....total fabrication........ one enquiry said to be in the 'embryonic' stage from a national hotel chain..... that's it.
https://youtu.be/KbUmgXvcwtQ
His body language and the slight gulp before he talks about a developer being interested suggests to me that this 'TinTin' looky likey is lying through his crooked teeth.
The man you couldn't hang. :) :) :)
He doesn't have to be told to keep his chin up because it appears he does not have one. Head-neck-trunk, one seamless join!
(http://www.hartlepoolpost.co.uk/images/SAB%20jacksons%20Landing%20with%20Alistair%20Rae.PNG)
The suit to the right is the council's chief spin merchant, Alistair Rae, which, considering SAB's performance on camera, makes you wonder what he would have been like without the help of his spin doctor!! The mind boggles!
I presume the cameraman is searching for his wide-angled lens :-)
They do the interview first where the camera is on the one being asked the questions all the time. The interview ends and then they do the 'noddies'. That is where they film the interviewer asking the same questions to empty space. Later they splice it together so it looks like they cut between the two in real time. You can see the mic over the blobs right rear shoulder.
Sounds like a right clart on and way too much for handsome Ste to handle.
I hope today's meeting, which features Jacksons landing, is chaired in a more cordial way than Friday's. Ideally, members of the public will be allowed to ask questions, councillors outside the ruling group won't be banned from speaking and hopefully no one will get called a wife beater.
It's the little thing you hope for isn't it?
After Fridays disgraceful meeting I won't be attending any more council meetings....... wife beater was bad enough..... being accused of being a necrophiliac could be the next insult
I was at the F&P meeting this morning, Paul Thompson asked Director Denise Ogden one very telling question; he asked how many enquiries HBC had received regarding Jackson's landing from developers etc. since HBC took ownership.
Denise Ogden replied non she was aware of. Perhaps when Ray Wells and co spout off about the number of people/companies who were interested in Jackson's Landing they should pass the information on to the relevant Officer, unless of course he was lying through his Tory teeth.
That deserves a follow up.
Quote from: Lord Elpus on July 25, 2016, 06: PM
I was at the F&P meeting this morning, Paul Thompson asked Director Denise Ogden one very telling question; he asked how many enquiries HBC had received regarding Jackson's landing from developers etc. since HBC took ownership.
Denise Ogden replied non she was aware of. Perhaps when Ray Wells and co spout off about the number of people/companies who were interested in Jackson's Landing they should pass the information on to the relevant Officer, unless of course he was lying through his Tory teeth.
Why then does the video on the previous page show Lying Ste saying there are developers interested in the site, there is something fundementally broken within HBC, we have a ruling cadre that tell more lies than "Billy Liar", both inside & outside of the council chamber.
I would suggest that Denise Ogden has a serious conversation with her Boss about why lying councillors are placing Officers of the council in invidious positions, she should also bring up the point of the HBC Press Officer issuing statements that are palpably untrue.
Quote from: fred c on July 25, 2016, 08: PM
Quote from: Lord Elpus on July 25, 2016, 06: PM
I was at the F&P meeting this morning, Paul Thompson asked Director Denise Ogden one very telling question; he asked how many enquiries HBC had received regarding Jackson's landing from developers etc. since HBC took ownership.
Denise Ogden replied non she was aware of. Perhaps when Ray Wells and co spout off about the number of people/companies who were interested in Jackson's Landing they should pass the information on to the relevant Officer, unless of course he was lying through his Tory teeth.
Why then does the video on the previous page show Lying Ste saying there are developers interested in the site, there is something fundementally broken within HBC, we have a ruling cadre that tell more lies than "Billy Liar", both inside & outside of the council chamber.
I would suggest that Denise Ogden has a serious conversation with her Boss about why lying councillors are placing Officers of the council in invidious positions, she should also bring up the point of the HBC Press Officer issuing statements that are palpably untrue.
For clarity she did also say there had been one recent enquiry from a hotel group. The point is it shows there had been no direct interest to HBC before this regardless of the spin (lies) told by Senior Councillors.
Funding has been approved, in today's Mail, no comments allowed ?
Normally these decisions would now go to the full council so that they can be debated by all 33 councillors but they are not allowing this to happen this time.
It was quite comical, really. At the F&P meeting yesterday, CAB said that he wanted the £40,000 cost to be taken from a different pot to the one first agreed, and although this was agreed, this 'change' still needs to go to full council for ratification. CAB thought he was on safe ground believing the next full council meeting, which is in September, was after the 19th, the date set for demolition, but he got it wrong; the meeting is scheduled for the 8th.
They're on dodgy ground as the original decision to purchase Jacksons Landing was made by Full Council on a majority vote. Obviously, the decision to demolish it should therefore also be a decision of full council.
To me, the elephant in the room here, is the question why, after years of standing empty, the decision to demolish the building is being rushed through with such haste and without all councillors being given their chance to have their say.
Their is a lot of deceit surrounding this e.g. SAB's claim on TV of developers queueing up when Denise Ogden has admitted that this isn't true - that in itself should warrant a full council debate.
Quote from: steveL on July 26, 2016, 08: AM
Normally these decisions would now go to the full council so that they can be debated by all 33 councillors but they are not allowing this to happen this time.
It was quite comical, really. At the F&P meeting yesterday, CAB said that he wanted the £40,000 cost to be taken from a different pot to the one first agreed, and although this was agreed, this 'change' still needs to go to full council for ratification. CAB thought he was on safe ground believing the next full council meeting, which is in September, was after the 19th, the date set for demolition, but he got it wrong; the meeting is scheduled for the 8th.
They're on dodgy ground as the original decision to purchase Jacksons Landing was made by Full Council on a majority vote. Obviously, the decision to demolish it should therefore also be a decision of full council.
To me, the elephant in the room here, is the question why, after years of standing empty, the decision to demolish the building is being rushed through with such haste and without all councillors being given their chance to have their say.
Their is a lot of deceit surrounding this e.g. SAB's claim on TV of developers queueing up when Denise Ogden has admitted that this isn't true - that in itself should warrant a full council debate.
Steve forgive my ignorance irrespective if there is a full Council debate nothing will change, it will be voted through as Labour are the majority party, none of them would dare vote against it or would they ?
You're right, of course, but that doesn't mean the public shouldn't be made aware of the under-hand tactics being employed to push this through or to exercise their right to see such a controversial move fully debated. Many people in town live in wards where none of their own councillors were able even to take part in this decision.
As for the Labour Group, there is a growing number of Labour councillors seriously embarrassed by the way the likes of CAB and Cranney are running this council. However, while they are willing enough to say so in private conversations they also seem to lack the balls to do anything about it. Personally, I'm not sure which deserve more contempt.
It is up to you, the people to show your displeasure.
It will be nearly twentytwo months before you have a chance through the ballot box. The only option now is to keep telling all three of your Cllrs that you do/do not want a particular action that is being proposed. If enough of us do it enough times they may just listen and change.
I know, the leadership will magician support from the air but that can be challenged by other Councillors who can tell them to put up or shut up.
Councillors are your link to the Council Chamber especially now as they have effectively stopped questions in Council meetings.
The only way to change things is to be involved.
From what I know of council contracts, which isn't much admittedly, wouldn't any contract for demolition have to be put out to tender after it had been decided to go ahead? There is something very strange here because, as I understand it, they were even to name the date that demolition would begin i.e. 19th September. Does that not mean that all planning and organisation had been completed, a contractor decided upon and a date set all before the Regeneration Committee Meeting which we are told gave the go-ahead.
Just supposing that the committee had not given the go-ahead. Wouldn't someone be looking very silly at this moment?
Isn't obvious that decisions are being made outside of due process and that it looks like these decisions are being by a select few people or even by one person and that the committee system, which we were told would be so democratic, is nothing but a total sham?
The whole thing stinks and the smell level is increasing on a daily basis. Someone seems very desperate to keep it quiet and push it through very quickly. ::)
It will be interesting to see which demolition company have been 'chosen' for the job.
Hartlepool is under the control of a dictatorship, TT is bang on, it was a done deal even before Fridays chaotic meeting, I spoke to a labour councillor immediately after that meeting, I got the distinct impression that he was both embarrased & disgusted at what happened during the meeting.
I believe there are a number of competent & civic minded councillors in the Labour Ruling Group, it is now time for them to stand up & take control of the towns Labour Party, back from the 'The Self Servers'.
Just a point on the Demolition Contract......There is likely to be an awful lot of 'Scrap' from the building, that scrap, will be worth a significant amount of money.......... The question needs to be posed..... Who exactly, will get that 'Scrap Money'????????????????
Just for a moment I thought it was....................
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/924/Q87ZIo.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/poQ87ZIoj)
. . . a blue whale?
I think the present building is a decent design that has similar features to the yacht club. All they need to is spruce it up a bit - better than looking at a concrete slab for years which is what is going to happen if these ars*h**es have their way.
I have read that the council, when they bought the site, did so because they didn't want it to fall into the wrong hands. What they mean by 'the wrong hands', I don't know, but if they do eventually sell it on to a developer, then I see little difference between that and the site belonging to the original owners - so why did they bother?
I think we will eventually end up with the land being leased to someone on a long-term basis, which in essence means that the council has just put us all in debt to he tune of another £1.5 million for no good reason at all.
How eternally optimistic, just as hope is eternal, so we hope, sadly it would appear all is not with our wellbeing at heart or indeed hart, be it local or from the Wear and certainly not from TVC thats Tees Valley Cleveland, endorsed by our born to lead leaders with eyes obliterated by the fleece that does so unto us. Weekly, Monthly and in the case of the easily accessible annualy, perhaps when all is done, the only option left, will, indeed, be, resign you imbeciles. How can these so called "responsible" my dish dash morons be allowed to, any longer, trustworthy , err means what, and can it be said in the same sentence ,continue, We have Tory's, local level, who should never be allowed to use the description "Conservative" voting Labour, which is a derogatory term in the groups vocabulary, ie " no Labour/blue cravats could comprehend a full gays employment, by gay I mean, a happy days employment, thats "work" not something au fait to the average Labatory executive member at a fast becoming marginal level. However all this is neglidgible in light of events elsewhere, an 84 year old man of god slaughtered with others, time to close all borders to free people movement. Troops to be recalled to their respective homelands and engage in their main purpose, protect your /our homeland borders. These ramblings probably decree, I am a homophobic racist, so be it, the warning was sounded in my eighth year of existance on this spherical object. Not a lot has been dissproved since.
Parked up down near the Wingfield Castle recently and was appalled at the state of the vessel. If it sank at its moorings they'd have the nerve to say they'd organised it as a diving reef. However, scanning around, with the exception of the historic quay it's all rather banal architecture, a retail park with some soulless flats... Unique in being a marina that doesn't have easy access to the sea.
When they purchased this carbuncle they had to submit an in depth proposal for there future use. This rejected twice before the proposal was excepted by Schroers.
I have asked before for a copy but been blanked. Be interesting to know what the intended Vision was,then ask why it never happened.
I know for a fact that a demolition business based in Middlesbrough "won" the contract to demolish the building a number of years ago!!!!!!
Is it A Buckler Haulage Ltd? Just noticed this spreadsheet - http://tinyurl.com/z28c3rd (http://tinyurl.com/z28c3rd)
I thought it was only going to cost 40 grand, not 80 as that spreadsheet states. It also appears that it is supposed to start on 1st September. Hmmm
Someone has also just told me that they heard from someone at the council last year that the plan all along was to demolish JL this year after the music festival.
If this is such a 'sound decision' then why all the secrecy and desperation to avoid questions and debate.
The plot thickens. ::)
Row 139 in the spreadsheet.
Interesting that the contract price is given as £80,000 and not £40,000 as we were told.
Also, this spreadsheet lists spending above £500 between Oct 2015 and June 2016 i.e. the contract was already award well before the Regeneration Committee meeting took place last week.
Do you really,really expect accuracy, come on, accounts, oh dear me, would it be pc to produce such facts? Out of interest, how many tenders have been recieved, demolitionly speaking, oh poo, awkward question. Dismiss imediatley.
http://www.hartlepoolmail.co.uk/news/local/funding-approved-for-jacksons-landing-demolition-1-8032523.
All comments removed, so in writing , CAB told a blatant lie, aimed to deceive and mislead . Surely this makes his position as a councilor untenable. He must resign.
Quote from: Alnwickist on July 29, 2016, 02: PM
http://www.hartlepoolmail.co.uk/news/local/funding-approved-for-jacksons-landing-demolition-1-8032523.
All comments removed, so in writing , CAB told a blatant lie, aimed to deceive and mislead . Surely this makes his position as a councilor untenable. He must resign.
Lots of good people on here have tried to bring them down,They are the untouchables how they do
It God knows.
A final throw of the dice if anyone fancies joining in ?
https://www.change.org/p/hartlepool-borough-council-stop-the-needless-demolition-of-jackson-s-landing
i would get on the snail website and read some of the coments before the censor gets in ;D
I see that the demolition of Jacksons Landing has already started - plenty of broken windows round the east end, so now the weather can do its business and make the building unsafe. It will then have to be knocked down as a safety measure, renovation being too expensive. Puts me in mind of the way that Tunstall Court was removed from the face of Hartlepool.
It needs to go, it is of no use now.
I have been informed from a reliable source that there is a hotel group prepared to buy part of the site ,,on the basis that HBC are to pay to have the site cleared.
The talks with an hotel group were put forward at the Regeneration meeting but those 'talks' were described as 'embryonic' and remember that was only 3 weeks ago.
Put yourself in HBC's position. Given the criticism over this decision, any opportunity to claim that the hotel plan would progress if the council cleared the site would have been immediately seized upon at the time and the Press Release would have gone something like this:
"National Hotel Group Set to Buy Jacksons Landing Site
It's been announced that a well-known, national hotel group is to purchase the Jacksons Landing site from Hartlepool Borough Council. The deal is dependant on the council paying to clear the site first with work expected to start in xxxxx.
In a statement, the Leader of the Council Christopher Akers-Belcher said, " This is an exciting development from a major hotel group and shows the level of confidence that businesses have in the future of Hartlepool. This is the latest stage of the council Vison and Masterplan for Hartlepool."
Our understanding is that another hotel group is indeed toying with the idea of building a hotel in Hartlepool but only on the existing Jacksons Landing Car Park - the rest of the site is destined to be a concrete slab and you have to wonder how much this restriction of space will affect any future development.
The long lost Jomast plans for Trincomallee Wharf also included a 7 storey hotel overlooking the Historic Quay
At some stage, the local family hotel and B&B businesses are going to start kicking off about the loss of potential trade. Putting long-standing family businesses out of business is hardly a step forward. As I said before, Hartlepool's tourist potential is limited and most of the people staying in the town are contractors and visiting businessmen.
The council is desperate and will accept any sort of development and claim it as all being part of some well thought-out plan but there is no such thing. There is a dream and a prayer mat - that's all - and the prayer mat was supplied by one of Cranney's 'business' contacts.
All this talk of demolition and site clearance has me worried for the safety of the Sailors Memorial . I expressed my concerns sometime ago on this site when it was in danger of Council interference however I am unable to remember what the reason was (old age!!!) I just hope that all due respect is shown, particularly as it is placed in the area of the Navy Museum and adds to the martitime history of the town
However with the present regime in place if money is involved "respect" will go out of the window. Time will tell.
Quote from: notenoughsaid on August 17, 2016, 01: PM
All this talk of demolition and site clearance has me worried for the safety of the Sailors Memorial . I expressed my concerns sometime ago on this site when it was in danger of Council interference however I am unable to remember what the reason was (old age!!!) I just hope that all due respect is shown, particularly as it is placed in the area of the Navy Museum and adds to the martitime history of the town
However with the present regime in place if money is involved "respect" will go out of the window. Time will tell.
That's a very good point. We shouldn't have to worry about such things but with the local crowd no one can have that degree of confidence.
Well at least we now know what will be replacing Jacksons Landing - an artists impression - and another few grand on there way to some Newcastle Architects who must be pissing themselves laughing all the way to the bank.
http://www.hartlepoolmail.co.uk/news/local/jacksons-landing-initial-design-plans-ready-by-november-officials-predict-1-8074552 (http://www.hartlepoolmail.co.uk/news/local/jacksons-landing-initial-design-plans-ready-by-november-officials-predict-1-8074552)
Can we have unicorns on the next set of drawings.
Who knows they may even throw in a couple of 'buckshee' house extension plans in to sweeten the deal, it would not be the first time.
If there is a company interested in buying the site, why are HBC having plans drawn up ?
Surely the interested company will want to make its own plans, not have something imposed by a local authority. How many more lies are we going to be force fed about this site?
The arrogance of President Christopher seems to have no bounds; this taken from his Facebook posts.
(http://www.hartlepoolpost.co.uk/images/cabs%20arrogance%20over%20jacksons%20landing.PNG)
Council Planing 10/06/2013.section of.
8 be the right house type for this site as there is an abundance of existing apartments at the marina and there are existing planning permissions for more still. • Leisure (Use Class D2): Given the size and form, the site offers potential for a range of leisure and related uses with links to the water area of the marina. Such uses might be based on maritime activity and could afford opportunities for activities like water sports, berthing of craft, training facilities and other similar uses. • Office Development (B1): Purpose built office accommodation taking account of the quality waterfront location. This could form upper floors of building in a mixed use scheme. • Retail (A1): Whilst the site is inappropriate for large scale retailing it does have great potential for speciality retailing particularly that associated with the leisure industry. • Other uses that could be incorporated into a mixed use scheme include A3 (Restaurants and Cafes), A4 (Drinking Establishments), A5(Hot food takeaways) and D1 (Non Residential Institutions) Current Structures at Jackson Landing 3.7 A large single retail unit currently occupies most of the site and the Council would support the demolition of this unit which would provide a blank canvas for a transformational scheme. There is also an electric sub station located in front of the existing retail unit. Agreement would have to be obtained from the operator if this was proposed to be moved or removed from the site. 3.8 In the north east tip of the site is the Seaton High Light. Built in the early 19th century, the structure, in the form of a free standing stone column, was originally located near Seaton Carew, along with a second light known as the Seaton Low Light. These fell into disrepair and the High Light was eventually moved to its present location. The remains of the column were restored as a memorial to those who lost their lives at sea. This structure must be retained and the setting of the heritage asset sympathetically treated in the overall design scheme. Early consultation regarding this issue should be made with the Councils conservation officer.
There are 31 grammar mistakes in the cut and paste.
Reply from NES.....Thanks Alnwickist. That was the subject that I posted on sometime ago. You prompted my memory as I have read that before. Regards.