http://www.hartlepoolpost.co.uk/
I wonder if all members of "The Mob" will be awake when the vote is taken, or will Robbie Payne have to act as a "Puppeteer" again this month.
Do any of us really expect anything else from this unsavoury crowd, the more we see the more we realise that things need to change.
What I find interesting about this story is how long-lasting Labour's committment to neutrality was when faced with even the possibility of one of Brash's mates being voted in as Chairman. A case of their own spite easily trumping any temporary committment to fair-play.
Now the precedent has been set, then next year the group will again feel free to effectively choose who occupies the Chair of the Committee whose main function is to scrutinise their own council leadership with a 'labour friendly' councillor being the most likely choice . . . and, just like public questions, another of the 'checks and balances' disappears.
I suppose that you could argue that this is not dissimilar to Marj previously occupying the Chair of the Scrutiny position but we all know how that worked out, don't we? Besides, Marj's job was to scrutinise Drummond and his Cabinet and was routinely used to undermine the whole system. It would seem that similar scrutiny of labour's own leadership of the council is not something to be left to chance.
My thoughts are over just what a calamitous start labour is making to its new position as leading the council and we haven't even got to the official start yet. We've had the whole Brash and Hargreaves episode, public questions being denied, Wilcox out on bail and cauught out paying staff below the minimum wage, cranney has his mattress scam and the A-B's hypocritically calling for restraint on basic allowances while accepting generous increases tpo their own allowances.
It's almost as if they are seeking out holes to fall in to (mind, there's are plenty to choose from if my street is anything to go by)
It makes you wonder just what is to come ........
When you put it like that TT it's hard to disagree with your conclusions. I guess we'll all have to watch this space.
There is a boat load of irony here. At a time when we read almost daily of yet more reasons why our council and councillors need to be subject to having their decisions and actions open to questioning and scrutiny, we also read, just as frequently, of actions they are taking to limit the scope of both.
I would say a lot rests on Mr Mitchell's enquiry. Let's all hope he delivers.
don't you think that the national Labour Party has basically lost control of its local counterparts?
Looking at the agenda for the meeting, who reckons that there could well be some hissing, spitting and flying fur?
http://www.hartlepool.gov.uk/egov_downloads/02.05.13_-_Extraordinary_Council_Agenda.pdf
Once again we see PHF exluded from any Chairs or Vice-Chairs making a mockery of proportionality rules while Wells and Morris get a Chair and Vice-Chair as reward for their voting record.
As was agreed over a week ago with PHF, the Conservative group supported Geoff Lilley as the Chairman of Audit & Governance.
Did you vote against Labour on everything? Like good Tories Shane?
... and how did you feel about George talking to someone on his phone while Wells paid his heartfelt tribute to Drummond?........ FFS
Quote from: SRMoore on May 02, 2013, 07: PM
As was agreed over a week ago with PHF, the Conservative group supported Geoff Lilley as the Chairman of Audit & Governance.
If you're proud of what the Tories did tonight, Shane including defying Devlin's advice on proprtionality and voting with Labour then there's no hope for you - or your Party.
Someone explain?? What happened?
I really wanted to be there tonight.... but i was detained by a 3 hour, pain in the backside online course for a new job....
Look forward to the news about what happened with "The Mob`s" shenanigans, they just can`t help themselves......
Essentially, a joint exercise between Labour and the Tories to deny PHF any committee chairs or vice-chairs with the added factor that anyone associated with Brash or Hargreaves was also to be excluded at all costs. Fisher was supported by Labour for the important Audit Chair as per the font page story and when Peter Devlin advised that, in order to maintain proportionality, two positions should go to either Independents or PHF, the Tories joined with Labour in ignoring his advice and voted for two labour.
George Morris decided to take a phone call and talked as if he was the only one in the room while Wells was paying his fake tribute to Drummond (he had to be told to put his phone down by Wells)
Steve Gibbon was voted off the Housing Hartlepool Board in favour of Paul Beck who had already said that he wasn't interested on the position. Geof Lilley was voted off the regional flood defences authority, something that he's done for years, in favour of Mad Dog who has never shown any interest in the subject and probably won't even turn up at the meetings.
Any paid positions were shared between Labour and the Tories
The Tories with 3 councillors now have 1 Chair and 1 Vice-Chair
PHF with 5 Councillors have none.
One day the Park area of Rural West will wake up to realise that there are NO Tories in Hartlepool Council.
Calm down Steve x
Lets have a conversation about proportionality shall we, Steve?
Devlin suggested that the positions for the fire authority should be taken up by an Independent or PHF. PHF I can understand, they are the largest opposition party. Independents however should not be classed as one group; remember Steve Allisons explanation as to why PHF was created? So that independents could be classed as one group rather than the 1+1+1+1 situation which had always been the case.
So actually, the positions should really have been taken up by a PHF Cllr and a Tory Cllr. The votes should have been SAB against Lilley, Wells against Fisher. In that scenario if SAB had been voted in over Lilley, the latter would have had a firm and justifiable reason to lodge an appeal.
You are obviously upset, Steve, but it's quite pathetic really. If you applied half as much thought and logic to decisions that involve Cllr Wells (and the tories) as you did on your witch hunts we'd have much better discussions you and I.
Then again, you may just enjoy focusing your thoughts towards Ray ;)
Ohh and why did PHF give up a position on Audit and Governance? It seems strange that PHF would give up a seat on the committee that would allow them to scrutinise things...
I'm not arguing with you Shane. As I see it, there's no difference between a Tory sheep, like you, and a Labour sheep - you're both still sheep and you're both self-interest before town.
As I said, if you're proud of what you witnessed tonight then you and your party deserve to be the irrelevance that you are in Hartlepool.
Over the years i have observed this Obvious Phenomena many times........................
If a Dog Rolls in S**t................ It always Sticks to its Coat.
Ignoring the facts presented to you when they don't suit your argument. Becoming a predictable trait of yours, Steve.
I'm a man of actions when it comes to representing this town, not just a keyboard warrior. If you don't like following up your words with actions then I believe politics may not be the role for you.
So are we saying that the Tories backed Labour on everything?
Are you proud of that Shane?
Shane sweetie, isn't action man a ghastly, quasi-military plastic toy?
Quote from: TSteels on May 02, 2013, 09: PM
So are we saying that the Tories backed Labour on everything?
Are you proud of that Shane?
No, they didn't. They also backed PHF despite but Steve wants to ignore that and you prefer to ignore my previous post.
But you guys just continue to ignore the facts and glass over PHF's faults. What were you saying about party sheep?
For the record, Wells walked up to Geoff last week and announced that he was going to support Geoff as Chair of Audit. There was no arrangement and, given that Wells two votes would make no difference whatsoever, no interest from Geoff in having a conversation with Wells at all.
As usual, and just like the story you came up with that Paul Mitch had left PHF you propagate rubbish that you'd like to be true but isn't true at all.
Just to give you a heads up for once, Wells approached Geoff after the meeting tonight with a fascinating 'let's work together' angle. I'll leave you to make up Geoff's reply if you want - you seem to like that - but as a clue I can tell you that it involved a lot of 'f's
Wrong again on all three counts, Steve.
1. An agreement was made between Geoff and Ray in a round table discussion that Geoff would back out of going for vice-chair of planning in return for Conservative support for Lilley to get Chair of Audit & Governance.
2. I never said Paul Mitch left PHF. I asked you to explain why he was kicking up such a fuss and was unhappy.
3. Rays asked Geoff "do you intend to appeal against the fire authority position?", Geoff replied "get out of my face before I f*cking punch you" he then (I hope unintentional) decided to shoot out of his parking space towards me with his engine revving high.
Now, why did PHF give up a seat on Audit & Governance? A seat which would have allowed them se see and question what was going on?
Quote from: SRMoore on May 02, 2013, 10: PM
Geoff ...............he then (I hope unintentional) decided to shoot out of his parking space towards me with his engine revving high.
Not one of Ray's star pupils then?
You're telling me I'm wrong because ray has told you otherwise...that's pretty much the source of your problem and why further discussion is a bit pointless.
oh and here's the quote that you never said:
Quote from: SRMoore on April 03, 2013, 04: PM
Aww come on Steve. You can talk about supposed problems with the labour or conservative party's but when it come to admitting that things aren't all as rose coloured as you like to portray in PHF you get personal and spit your dummy out.
Why has Paul Mitchenson left the party? Why has Alec Gough quit as chairman after only being so for less than a year? I could go on...
Now I'll get back to actions in trying to make this town a better place as opposes to solely being a keyboard warrior. X
Ok I concede that I had said that. I must have typed that in haste as I knew he'd only kicked off and not left. My point of that discussion still stands, things aren't as Rosie as you like to make out.
As for the other two, ask Geoff (your only source of info) and anybody else who was present at the round table discussion as the agreement was no secret.
And as for the whole tiff and threats, think about this for a moment... I was nearly hit by his car, kind of gives a clue as to where my source came from.
Now, why did PHF give up a seat on Audit & Governance? A seat which would have allowed them to see and question what was going on?
I am coming round to thinking the way S Allison thinks, why participate in anything that "The Mob" orchestrate, by sitting on one of their Sham Committees it amounts to you being Guilty by Association.
By not giving their Committee System credibility, a councillor can concentrate on representing his ward constituents, & also keep them informed about what goes on within the Snake Pit.
If you want an example of Collusion by association you need look no further the ToryLab party.
It all just goes to show, be careful who you vote for you all voted Labour back in you should be proud of yourselves
Remember the old saying ( those who keep voting for the same party will get the same results ) and you do.
All political part`s must change and they do like premier league football teams need to get better players to win the championship, the difference with political party`s is that they must not let at any costs, the people who vote for them know find out, it is nothing less than a battle, a battle for Britain, wake up Hartlepool or be swallowed in your own dogma.
I mean is it only in Hartlepool a guy dressed up as a football mascot gets all the way to be Mayor of the town, it was also said you hung a monkey, you still vote Labour, no change there then, people who I tell those stories to fall about laughing, and then it`s where`s Hartlepool they think you all wear medieval costumes maybe they are not wrong. Something is happening out there in the modern world you will get another chance to grasp it lets see if you Do or will it be ( no change there then. )
Mr Allison, is a really articulate and all round nice guy I met him once, but his recent comment makes me wonder about what he does during the day I mean, is it logical to assume that if you don't participate in anything, then you might as well not think about anything, might as well not see or hear anything, which begs the question should you have an opinion about anything more to the point do you really exist.
Quote from: beanzontoast on May 08, 2013, 07: PM
I mean is it only in Hartlepool a guy dressed up as a football mascot gets all the way to be Mayor of the town, it was also said you hung a monkey, you still vote Labour, no change there then, people who I tell those stories to fall about laughing, and then it`s where`s Hartlepool they think you all wear medieval costumes maybe they are not wrong. Something is happening out there in the modern world you will get another chance to grasp it lets see if you Do or will it be ( no change there then. )
And at number one in the Hartlepool charts .....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WSkkz9f27A
Utterly bizarre indeed Perseus, and judging by all the comments on the forum re HBC why do you keep voting for them ( Labour ) a man once said don`t vote for them it only encourages them.
I must apologise Perseus, I should have taken more care over the wording when using the word YOU i was not referring to you in particular, it was meant to convey the majority of residents who have had a choice and used it to yet again vote in Labour. Again my apologies.
Then as Labour has been in control of HBC for an awful long time, and Labour being a socialist party, then may I suppose any change may take an awful long time to come about as the general populous of Hartlepool fears change, as it brings uncertainty to their being better the devil you know. However a point you raised again please don`t take this the wrong way but genuinely what is your view on what makes a ( Genuine Socialist. )
Quote from: perseus on May 08, 2013, 08: PM
Keith Fisher who presumably scratched out a living as an Elvis impersonator.
Would that be the slim 1950s/60s Elvis or would he go for the white jump suit bloated Elvis of the 1970s. (Why do all Elvis impersonators seem to go for that look) ;)
Utterly bizarre.................. Only in Hartlepool.
Sorry Perseus couldnt help myself!
Perseus, you talk about genuine socialists but would it be better to simply wish for a set of genuine people who have some of the attributes you mentioned above?
How many of our councillors have achieved anything positive worthy of note outside of office?
I bet some of their CVs would be a joke, sure there are a few who have decent degrees but put them through a set of tests like Alan Sugars apprentices get and most would struggle to get past the first week.
In fact scrap ballots and next time round we'll have a game of councillor idol where they take to the stage and pitch to a pis*ed up crowd. I'll get the tall ships team to organise it.
It does seem my day for apologising for my genuine wrong choice of words, while I stand by my words of you are an all round good guy and articulate, I really did not wish to know what you did during the day, the main thrust of my reasoning was, if you don`t participate in anything, then you cant have an opinion on anything, nor a vote, clearly you exercise both when it suits, but deny the process, while at the same time still involve yourself with politics, it is therefore reasonable to assume the residents of the headland, and UKIP when you were a member found your ideas of none participation a little out there, or to use an electronics term ( Fuzzy Logic ) ah well it`s their loss is what I say.
I couldn't agree less. If you follow that logic, then there is no role for any opposition in the council chamber and I would suggest that now, more than ever, opposition is critical - the people of Hartlepool deserve nothing less.
I will give my own example.
Labour and their Tory allies were always going to win the vote banning supplementary questions and changing the way that even one question could be submitted. It was opposed by PHF and the Independents as well as Brash and Hargreaves.
As a matter of fact, those involved opposed it very well and as a result it received massive coverage in The Mail and, obviously, on here. It led to a large number of letters on the Mail's letters page and comments on their website.
As a result, Labour have struggled to explain themselves, made worse by Ged hall's absurd phone call and there are now a lot of people out there who now know about Labour's attempts to stifle public scrutiny and the issue has become a significant part of the present public inquiry.
To sit back and allow the vote to go through unchallenged would have allowed Labour to avoid any of that.
Winning the vote isn't everything. A lot can be achieved by simply being prepared to fight the battle.
The Opportunity for PHF Councillors to ask probing & pertinent questions of the LabCon Alliance is the biggest single weapon against "The Mob" ( Along with HTH) it does open up to the public the self serving attitude to the way this town is being governed.
Its a pity Cllr Wells & "His Party"..... roflmao..... don`t feel it neccessary to ask questions of the opposition.......... its a matter of.... Which way do you want us to vote on this Christopher.... How should we vote on that Christopher..... How many bags should we Fill Christopher ??? ??? ???
Cameron ditches drinking and smoking curbs from the Queens Speech.....
Mini-me Ray blocks curbs on late night drinking........
They are all in the Brewer's pockets.
Wasn't it Brashy/Lauderdale who produced the report to curb late night drinking? Under the new Junta that's quite enough to sink it without trace.