Oh dear, oh dear.
Not only does Church Street look abysmal, despite the upheaval to the few businesses down there, the disruption to transport and the astronomical financial outlay for so little return, I do believe the 2 pedestrian crossings are NOT legal, unless the design legislation has been amended.
The crossing surface ought to be alternate black and white 'strips'. What we have appears to be fawn setts, no doubt left over from someones drive!
How much to rip out and design to spec, or paint it black and white?
As fred would say;
only in Hartlepool under the torlab mob. :'(
I wondered about the colour scheme for the crossings as well - never seen the likes before
Where's the 'Clerk of Works' when you want one ?........I have no idea who signs off on council contracts, especially multi million pound contracts, but the quality of finish in Church Street and the Seaton Carew Fountain and play park areas leaves a lot to be desired.
It isn't knit picking, simply a question of.....If you hired someone to pave your drive of lay out a grassed area and they ended up like the above examples, you would refuse to pay the money until the job was done properly......Have the Re-Gen Guru and The Dear Leader taken a serious look at the state of both projects....... Somebody needs to :o
I love driving down to stare in bewilderment and ask myself how all that time, money and wind from the clique resulted in something worse than the original.
The idea was you take a street with a good mix of shops and make it better. They chose the path of giving a bars/ fast food drag a regrettable makeover of dubious taste, so inevitably nothing would change, except the pavements would show the weekend grease quicker.
Not so much a makeover, more a make under.
They haven't got a clue.
So, if ever you fancy a re-modelling of your area in a brutalist 1950's Eastern Bloc form of 'architecture' these people are the experts.
They have the mindset of those who have to leave their mark, but as the are lacking in any form of original thought, they simply rebrand that which was their before or replace a paved area with 'their paved area'. They want to re-invent the town in their own image. Trouble is, they're just not anywhere near up to it and never will be.
Apropos, Church Street boulevard;
Of course, it could be that the 'dear leader' thought the stark 'black & white' would be anathema to those with certain medical issues.
To save ripping it out afterwards, he has designed a new colour scheme for pedestrian crossings and has applied to the government for a patent and expects the scheme to be rolled out across the UK.
It may be funny if it wasn't so serious and costing us council tax payers so much of OUR hard earned cash.
Surely, his day of reckoning isn't too far in the distance.
WHO is voting for these inept idiots? ::)
Quote from: grim reaper on July 24, 2018, 02: PM
Surely, his day of reckoning isn't too far in the distance.
WHO is voting for these inept idiots? ::)
Nobody votes for 'them'. They get elected because out there are thos who blindly vote for the Party, like their dad did and his dad did etc etc.
If it wasn't for the Party label, they'd come third if they stood unopposed.
As Churchill might have put it
Never before in the field of political conflict
Has so much been wasted by so few
::)
The Zebra, Pelican and Puffin Pedestrian Crossings Regulations 1997 do allow for this in point 8 but driving down there recently it is not ideal especially at night with the new spotlights street lighting blinding you
PART II
ROAD MARKINGS
Road markings
6. Subject to the following provisions of this Part of this Schedule—
(a)within the limits of a Zebra crossing the carriageway shall be marked with a series of alternate black and white stripes;
(b)the Zebra controlled areas shall be marked with give-way lines, a line of studs and zig-zag lines,
of the size and type, and generally in the manner, shown in the diagram at the end of this Part of this Schedule.
Number of studs and stripes
7. The number of studs and stripes may be varied.
Limits of the crossing
8.—(1) If it provides a reasonable contrast with the white stripes, the colour of the surface of the carriageway may be used to indicate the stripes shown coloured black in the diagram.
(2) The white stripes may be illuminated by retroreflecting material.
(3) Subject to paragraph (4) each black and each white stripe shall be of the same size and not less than 500 mm nor more than 715 mm wide as measured across the carriageway.
(4) The first stripe at each end may be up to 1300 mm wide and, if the traffic authority consider it appropriate in relation to a particular crossing having regard to the layout of the carriageway or other special circumstances, the other stripes may be not less than 380 mm nor more than 840 mm wide as measured across the carriageway.
Studs
9.—(1) The studs may be omitted altogether.
(2) If studs are provided—
(a)they shall be coloured white, silver or light grey;
(b)they shall be either—
(i)circular in shape with a diameter of not less than 95 mm nor more than 110 mm; or
(ii)square in shape with each side not less than 95 mm nor more than 110 mm long;
(c)they may illuminated by retroreflecting material;
(d)if they consist of a device fixed to the carriageway, they shall—
(i)not be fitted with reflecting lenses;
(ii)be so fixed that they do not project more than 20 mm above the adjacent surface of the carriageway at their highest points nor more than 6 mm at their edges;
(e)the distance from the centre of any stud to the centre of the next stud in the same line shall not be less than 250 mm nor more than 715 mm and the distance between the edge of the carriageway at each end of a line of studs and the centre of the nearest stud shall be not more than 1.3 metres; and
(f)the two lines of studs need not be at right angles to the edge of the carriageway, but shall form straight lines and, so far as is reasonably practicable, shall be parallel to each other.
Zig-zag lines
10.—(1) The pattern of the central zig-zag lines may be reversed or, on a road having a carriageway not more than 6 metres wide, those lines may be omitted altogether so long as they are replaced by the road marking shown in diagram 1004 in Schedule 6 to the 1994 Regulations.
(2) Subject to sub-paragraph (4) the number of marks in a zig-zag line shall not be less than 8 nor more than 18 and a zig-zag line need not contain the same number of marks as any other zig-zag line.
(3) Each mark in a zig-zag line shall be coloured white and may be illuminated by retroreflecting material.
(4) Where the traffic authority is satisfied that, by reason of the layout or character of any roads in the vicinity of a Zebra crossing, it would be impracticable to lay out a Zebra controlled area in accordance with this Schedule—
(a)the number of marks in any zig-zag line in that area may be reduced to not less than 2; and
(b)the length of any of the marks may be varied to not less than 1 metre.
Give-way line
11.—(1) The give-way line shall be coloured white and may be illuminated by retroreflecting material.
(2) The angle of the give-way line in relation to, and its distance from, the edge of the crossing may be varied, if the traffic authority is satisfied that the variation is necessary having regard to the angle of the crossing in relation to the edge of the carriageway.
(3) The maximum distance of 3 metres between the give-way line and the limits of the crossing shown in the diagram in this Part of this Schedule may, if the traffic authority think fit having regard to the layout or character of the road in the vicinity of the crossing, be increased to not more than 10 metres.
Discolouration or partial displacement of markings
12. A Zebra crossing or a Zebra controlled area shall not be deemed to have ceased to be indicated in accordance with this Schedule by reason only of the discolouration or partial displacement of any of the road markings prescribed by this Schedule, so long as the general appearance of the pattern of the lines is not impaired.
PART II
DIAGRAM
Don't let Dirk hear you criticise church st !! He's so protective of it, you'd think it was his money. You negative nellies.
Quote from: Nice on July 24, 2018, 12: PM
I wondered about the colour scheme for the crossings as well - never seen the likes before
I drove along Church St from Mainsforth Terr early evening last week, sun streaming down, the crossings seemed to meld into the surrounding surface, very hard to see.
Quote from: Nice on July 24, 2018, 12: PM
I wondered about the colour scheme for the crossings as well - never seen the likes before
I'm only surprised that the stripes weren't red and blue- in order to reflect the Labour / Conservative alliance in the Council chamber!
My main concern is when entering Church Street from Church Square the wall that is built around the statue partly blocks the view of the crossing at that point. If a child was running across the road there they would be impossible to see and would be run over.That is an accident waiting to happen if I ever saw one.
I agree with Topcat about the visibility of the crossing. I am not sure if the height of the wall has been increased or not, but I certainly needed extra caution to make sure there wasn't a child or wheelchair user crossing from the right.
Drove down yesterday, lot of activity around the Shades, doors open, guy in Hi Vis with clipboard examining the facia.
Also heard a rumour, from a local trader, that HBC have bought the premises, anybody able confirm this ?
WTF In hell we would this lot do with a wrecked pub, spend a fortune on refurbishing it so they can justify the Church Street Vision....?
Is Church Street going to be renamed Akers-Belcher Boulevard?
Quote from: fred c on July 25, 2018, 02: PM
WTF In hell we would this lot do with a wrecked pub, spend a fortune on refurbishing it so they can justify the Church Street Vision....?
I could easily believe it. It could be the Church St 'Ub'.😱
Apparently they have bought it!😳
wonder where the money came from ???
I can;t understand the fuss over this building. Even in the 70s when I used to go down Church Street this pub was considered a 'dive'. Indeed most of the area was like that. The Alma and Devon were full of prostitutes and blokes waiting to glass anyone who 'looked at our lass'. The block that has this pub is falling to bits. The far end has been knocked down and a modern building that jars with it constructed and now an even more modern building built behind that. When exactly was this 'golden age' everyone is harking back to?
There you go Terry Hammond agrees with me and he should know. I like the way Anth feels he knows more about pubs than Terry.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/HistoryOfHartlepoolInImages/permalink/1704539969644198/?comment_id=1704700542961474&comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22R%22%7D
Yep, just been confirmed by CAB, purchased with support of 300k from TVCA. No mention of the full purchase price.
shouldn't it have been discussed in a full council meeting ??
and voted on (not that that matters)
Another victory for the Wilkinsons. I expect the Odeon will be another example of them taking the council to the cleaners.
Maybe Cranney will be running it...cos he has lots of successful business experience ::) and SAB will be doing the food! They'll be changing the name of the place to Shady's!
Quote from: Johnny Bongo on July 26, 2018, 05: PM
Maybe Cranney will be running it...cos he has lots of successful business experience ::) and SAB will be doing the food! They'll be changing the name of the place to Shady's!
[/quote
It wouldn't surprise me if we, the taxpayers, funded the restoration for some numbskull to manage it making a big loss - it will then be sold to some "Entrepreneur" for a pittance who will magically turn it round - could it be someone planning for the future????
Quote from: Johnny Bongo on July 26, 2018, 05: PM
Maybe Cranney will be running it...cos he has lots of successful business experience ::) and SAB will be doing the food! They'll be changing the name of the place to Shady's!
Funny enough Cranny has past form regarding running pubs, in the 1990's he was involved in a community take over of the Lion Hotel, Lancaster Road.
I knew someone involved and my understanding was people quickly started to doubt a community leaders intentions.
It all ended in tears when a fire reducing the building to a shell.
If he'd only had 5 years to turn it round and enough grant support.
I used to drink in there when I was home
now calling the shades a dive is one thing, it pales into insignificance compared to the lion
;D
I see Terry had to let people know he had some experience managing pubs when his opinion was challenged........
https://www.facebook.com/groups/HistoryOfHartlepoolInImages/permalink/1704539969644198/?comment_id=1704700542961474&comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22R9%22%7D
I have seen plenty of 'fights' in Church Street and even remember a death in the Devon.
If Terry Hammond isn't qualified to give an opinion on Church Streets boozing and fighting establishments........no one is.
Once again we see nofuckalls talking complete b****x, The Devon, Alma and Shades were only to be entered mob handed....
As posters were not 100% supportive of the purchase they have deleted the linked thread in the previous posts.
Quote from: mk1 on July 26, 2018, 08: PM
As posters were not 100% supportive of the purchase they have deleted the linked thread in the previous posts.
Curiouser & curiouser ...
Quote from: WhatTheHeck on July 26, 2018, 02: PM
Yep, just been confirmed by CAB, purchased with support of 300k from TVCA. No mention of the full purchase price.
£300,000? I'd want £300,000 off them to take it off their hands! If TVCA want to give out this sort of money, I could suggest it's spent on something far more worthwhile than another whimsical vanity project.
Why, why do this recur, you know what will prevail prior to the cut and paste predictions ( designers) Come on, we are not talking the science of rockets here. The new layout is fantastic, very much in keeping with the vision or visions, in so much as the waves are not just at sea but underfoot, totally in keeping with the ambeiance, seagul s**t, roof top s**t, all in all it shows up well. Meanwhile, cast a sideways glance down the side streets off the star attraction with the blinding spotlights to highlight safety awareness. Note the prevailing gardens of babylon sprouting forth with gay abandon. Cant wait for the ensueing downpour that will inevitably lead to localised flooding despite the cyclicle attention to gulleys been cleaned and readied! Flower and fawna eminating at liberty. We simply have not the resource, but certain establishments have no such problems when flooded or toasted and the books well and trually cooked!!
The van is already being loaded up with tables & chairs, catering equipment and of course, (nearly) new carpets. A quick lick of paint and Bob's your uncle. The van being the same one that took away the gear from Inspirations Cafe! I wonder where the dishwasher went? Shady's will make a fortune (for someone) at Christmas!
I still want to know how TVCA can cough up £300.000 for this. Was it approved by full council ? how long has the process taken ?Oh, and who was the driving force behind this?
Is this governance by whim?
So that's £615,000 pounds on 2 buildings on Vision Street...........
£315,000 on the block of flats next door to the old Yorkshire Bank.
£300,000 on the delapilated Shades Pub.
Both need refurbishing, apparently the flats are going to be student accommodation so will need to be of a good standard.... Looking at the Shades however, the cost of doing the whole building up as a pub ? Is likely to be astronomical, both inside and out are in a right state.....Will it be another contractor doing the work, if so any bets on who it might be ?
Could it be anything else other than more student accommodation.
Nothing else pays does it ?
Only other thought is move some officers into it as an excuse for it having a purpose
Quote from: fred c on July 27, 2018, 12: PM
So that's £615,000 pounds on 2 buildings on Vision Street...........
£315,000 on the block of flats next door to the old Yorkshire Bank.
£300,000 on the delapilated Shades Pub.
Both need refurbishing, apparently the flats are going to be student accommodation so will need to be of a good standard.... Looking at the Shades however, the cost of doing the whole building up as a pub ? Is likely to be astronomical, both inside and out are in a right state.....Will it be another contractor doing the work, if so any bets on who it might be ?
when was cost ever a problem?
Quote from: Inspector Knacker on July 27, 2018, 05: AM
I still want to know how TVCA can cough up £300.000 for this. Was it approved by full council ? how long has the process taken ?Oh, and who was the driving force behind this?
Is this governance by whim?
there's a rabbit off here
nobody hears a thing till it's too late
has the scabs and crannies sticky paw prints all over it >:(
Quote from: kevplumb on July 27, 2018, 02: PM
Quote from: Inspector Knacker on July 27, 2018, 05: AM
I still want to know how TVCA can cough up £300.000 for this. Was it approved by full council ? how long has the process taken ?Oh, and who was the driving force behind this?
Is this governance by whim?
there's a rabbit off here
nobody hears a thing till it's too late
has the scabs and crannies sticky paw prints all over it >:(
On one of the since deleted post's, a prominent member Hartlepool Labour replied to a post, intimating that negotiations had been ongoing for a year.
Quote from: WhatTheHeck on July 27, 2018, 06: PM
Quote from: kevplumb on July 27, 2018, 02: PM
Quote from: Inspector Knacker on July 27, 2018, 05: AM
I still want to know how TVCA can cough up £300.000 for this. Was it approved by full council ? how long has the process taken ?Oh, and who was the driving force behind this?
Is this governance by whim?
there's a rabbit off here
nobody hears a thing till it's too late
has the scabs and crannies sticky paw prints all over it >:(
On one of the since deleted post's, a prominent member Hartlepool Labour replied to a post, intimating that negotiations had been ongoing for a year.
I remember having a conversation with a councillor going back 12 months, and he mentioned then that a sample of the vitreous bricks on the shades had been sent away to look at the viability of getting the same brick.......obviously in the councils mind even then........Lets call a spade a shovel here, 'If the LabMobs Vision for Church Street hadn't got the go ahead, the Shades would be worth the square root of FA.
Surely the more sensible approach would have been to buy the property prior to announcing the redevelopment of the street, if you were determined to buy it?
A derelict house in a derelict street is always cheaper than a derelict house in a shiney new street.