Lease is up in 2 years and will be getting closed down as it is going to cost a fortune to bring up to date so theres another set of people that will be kicking off soon.
Quote from: popgoestheweasal. on June 21, 2012, 06: PM
Lease is up in 2 years and will be getting closed down as it is going to cost a fortune to bring up to date so theres another set of people that will be kicking off soon.
I vote we give the building/land to the bowlers for nowt!
just read in the mail that the bowls club will be in the new millhouse project leisure centre.
Quote from: popgoestheweasal. on June 21, 2012, 06: PM
Lease is up in 2 years and will be getting closed down as it is going to cost a fortune to bring up to date so theres another set of people that will be kicking off soon.
they lease the club from the council the same as the football club do so why havent the bowls club been made to maintain the property the same as the football club have had to.
more double standards from the council or simply looking after the labour party coffin dodgers.
MK1 i agree give them it for nowt on the understanding they spend the money needed to bring it up to standard so it will fit in with the rest of the area after the action plan has been brought to reality. for you thats actually not a bad idea.
Two things to consider:
1. The Bowls Club currently pays more rent to the council for its premises than does the football club
2. The 'Plan' calls for the council to pay for the replacement bowls club/swimming pool building
Quote from: no6bus on June 21, 2012, 08: PM
they lease the club from the council the same as the football club do so why havent the bowls club been made to maintain the property the same as the football club have had to.
more double standards from the council or simply looking after the labour party coffin dodgers.
Oh dear I believe that is what is called an 'own goal'.
It appears the 'coffin dodgers' (not my phrase) are paying more than the club supported by well paid firemen with free teeth. All them pot bellied middle aged blokes drinking themselves silly on Saturday can't finance their own sport but a load of pensioners can!
Is it possible they get better crowds each week as well?
By the way you do not need to 'put Hartlepool on the map'
I have checked dozens of maps-it is already there!
That Mail article made me want to throw up "world class", "put Hartlepool on the map", the £90m into the local economy - remind you of anything?
Interesting how the facts are slowly starting to creep out:
*the football club gets the ground for free
*Gus Robinson gets the rest of the land for 1p
*the council has to find the money to replace the swimming pool and the bowls club - and quite possibly the rest too.
It's starting to look like this parrot is dead.
Quote from: steveL on June 22, 2012, 12: AM
Two things to consider:
1. The Bowls Club currently pays more rent to the council for its premises than does the football club
do we have proof of this or is it more of the usual print lies and eventually someone will believe it trick
2. The 'Plan' calls for the council to pay for the replacement bowls club/swimming pool building
I'm not really bothered if you believe it or not; I should think most people would find it unbelieveable too. At a guess, I would say that its probably because the Bowls Club pays rent for the building which is maintained by HBC whereas the Football Club only pays rent for the actual ground and are responsible for their own maintenance.
I don't think picking on other organisations is going to help your cause and referring to members of the Bowls Club as 'coffin dogers' is disgraceful. If you want to run a successful campaign then you need to win over people not make enemies of them. You also need to be a little more open about the real situation. For example, here's a few more aspects to this 'plan' that have leaked out.
- According to Gus Robinson's son, the plans for the Odeon, which are dependent on HBC paying to fund a CPO, will most likely lead to it being flattened and replaced with social housing.
- The same guy has acknowledged that the plans are not dependent on the football ground being 'given' to the football club and would go ahead whatever happens to the football ground.
- Financing currently depends on a combination of contributions from HBC, the European Commission, Social Housing organisations like Housing Hartlepool, Government grants and funding from Camerons for a new pub- note the absence of any significant private finance.
- As it stands, at the end of it all the Football Club gets the ground for nothing, Gus Robinson makes a good profit from the housing and HBC loses a valuable asset from its books and swaps it for a chunk of additional borrowing and debt at a time when it is flat broke.
Your campaign at the moment seems to consist of standing in the corner shouting at anyone who highlights the weaknesses of the plan rather than acknowledging those weaknesses and addressing them. The town outside of the football club will want to see some financial input from those who are set to gain from the plan. In addition, if HBC are to take on any additional debt then a solid case of how this can be funded from additional business rates/council tax needs to be made - otherwise it's not going to happen. You also need to take it as read that no handover of the ground will take place until the deveopment is at least underway.
Forget any nonsensical claims of £90m into the local economy - everyone is still trying to find the £26.5m that the Tall Ships was supposed to have left in town.
My b******t detector started clicking even before the Mail used the phrase 'World Class'...the whole scheme has more holes in it than swiss cheese.
The bowls club is what i mentioned not the football club. ::)
Will there be any money available to finance new bowls clubs and leisure centre. hope there is for the sake of the towns people.
I don't think there's any money around for anything at the moment. The Bowls Club is said to have 11 years left according to the usual 'end of life' logic that we seem to hear a lot of these days. If the lease does run out in 2 years, then I would guess that it would simply be extended in the hope that sometime during those 11 years the money can be found to replace it. The same is probably true about the Swimming Baths, I would guess.
Quote from: steveL on June 22, 2012, 12: PM
I'm not really bothered if you believe it or not; I should think most people would find it unbelieveable too. At a guess, I would say that its probably because the Bowls Club pays rent for the building which is maintained by HBC whereas the Football Club only pays rent for the actual ground and are responsible for their own maintenance.
I don't think picking on other organisations is going to help your cause and referring to members of the Bowls Club as 'coffin dogers' is disgraceful. If you want to run a successful campaign then you need to win over people not make enemies of them. You also need to be a little more open about the real situation. For example, here's a few more aspects to this 'plan' that have leaked out.
- According to Gus Robinson's son, the plans for the Odeon, which are dependent on HBC paying to fund a CPO, will most likely lead to it being flattened and replaced with social housing.
- The same guy has acknowledged that the plans are not dependent on the football ground being 'given' to the football club and would go ahead whatever happens to the football ground.
- Financing currently depends on a combination of contributions from HBC, the European Commission, Social Housing organisations like Housing Hartlepool, Government grants and funding from Camerons for a new pub- note the absence of any significant private finance.
- As it stands, at the end of it all the Football Club gets the ground for nothing, Gus Robinson makes a good profit from the housing and HBC loses a valuable asset from its books and swaps it for a chunk of additional borrowing and debt at a time when it is flat broke.
Your campaign at the moment seems to consist of standing in the corner shouting at anyone who highlights the weaknesses of the plan rather than acknowledging those weaknesses and addressing them. The town outside of the football club will want to see some financial input from those who are set to gain from the plan. In addition, if HBC are to take on any additional debt then a solid case of how this can be funded from additional business rates/council tax needs to be made - otherwise it's not going to happen. You also need to take it as read that no handover of the ground will take place until the deveopment is at least underway.
Forget any nonsensical claims of £90m into the local economy - everyone is still trying to find the £26.5m that the Tall Ships was supposed to have left in town.
sorry it is not my campaign, i am not involved in any way shape or form, however like everyone on here i have an opinion which i will voice.
so you seem to be well informed about the plans, were you at mondays meeting by chance. or are you simply quoting rumours and passing them off as facts.
Steve I,ve been 2 of the meetings and they are well organised with views aired by all and dealt with maybe you need to go to the next meeting i'm going and will sit with you.
Quote from: steveL on June 22, 2012, 12: PM
I'm not really bothered if you believe it or not; I should think most people would find it unbelieveable too. At a guess, I would say that its probably because the Bowls Club pays rent for the building which is maintained by HBC whereas the Football Club only pays rent for the actual ground and are responsible for their own maintenance.
I don't think picking on other organisations is going to help your cause and referring to members of the Bowls Club as 'coffin dogers' is disgraceful. If you want to run a successful campaign then you need to win over people not make enemies of them. You also need to be a little more open about the real situation. For example, here's a few more aspects to this 'plan' that have leaked out.
- According to Gus Robinson's son, the plans for the Odeon, which are dependent on HBC paying to fund a CPO, will most likely lead to it being flattened and replaced with social housing.
- The same guy has acknowledged that the plans are not dependent on the football ground being 'given' to the football club and would go ahead whatever happens to the football ground.
- Financing currently depends on a combination of contributions from HBC, the European Commission, Social Housing organisations like Housing Hartlepool, Government grants and funding from Camerons for a new pub- note the absence of any significant private finance.
- As it stands, at the end of it all the Football Club gets the ground for nothing, Gus Robinson makes a good profit from the housing and HBC loses a valuable asset from its books and swaps it for a chunk of additional borrowing and debt at a time when it is flat broke.
Your campaign at the moment seems to consist of standing in the corner shouting at anyone who highlights the weaknesses of the plan rather than acknowledging those weaknesses and addressing them. The town outside of the football club will want to see some financial input from those who are set to gain from the plan. In addition, if HBC are to take on any additional debt then a solid case of how this can be funded from additional business rates/council tax needs to be made - otherwise it's not going to happen. You also need to take it as read that no handover of the ground will take place until the deveopment is at least underway.
Forget any nonsensical claims of £90m into the local economy - everyone is still trying to find the £26.5m that the Tall Ships was supposed to have left in town.
Agree!
The ignorance of some people on this site has prompted me to join.
Well PFTW, I don't know how old you are or how long you have lived in Hartlepool. Let me enlighten you a little.
Hartlepool has produced bowlers who have represented the town at local, County, National and International levels.
The indoor bowls has members, female and male, of all ages from the junior league (14/16 yrs) to several playing members in their nineties. Bowls has helped all ages and particularly the older generation to keep physically fit as well as mentally fit. They are far from coffin dodgers and will probably see you out. Bowls is a misunderstood sport, yes SPORT, by the uninitiated. Anybody who has played, not watched, ball sports know that skill is required as well as physical adroitness and stamina. Bowls demands this just as much as football but with the addition that skill can compensate for failing physical prowess. Add to this the additional complexities of weather, the green and the rinks to outdoor bowling and it becomes quite a complex playing game. As you have probably guessed, I am a bowler and I recommend that you give it a try rather than knock it.
As I understand it, HUFC pays a peppercorn rent and rates. The Indoor Bowling Club pays rent and rates. This is reflected in their respective costs:- HUFC approx £18K and the bowls £26K. The football club is what? Three to four times the area of the bowls? Who gets the better deal?
The bowlers do, your arena is indoors.
As soon as I saw the 'dodgers' description I knew there would be consequences. I gather all the bowlers will be informed how the football fans describe them and can only say 'great way to win friends and influence people'
You might get away with sh*ite talk like that on the closed section at the Bunker but it plays very badly in the real world.
Watch for the spiteful replies.....
Funny you should say that because I noticed that 'the campaign' part of the bunker had been closed off too. Someone realised leaving their comments open to public viewing perhaps wasn't such a good idea and would probably do more harm than good. They'll be introducing pink papers next. ;)
Quote from: mk1 on June 22, 2012, 11: PM
As soon as I saw the 'dodgers' description I knew there would be consequences. I gather all the bowlers will be informed how the football fans describe them and can only say 'great way to win friends and influence people'
You might get away with sh*ite talk like that on the closed section at the Bunker but it plays very badly in the real world.
Watch for the spiteful replies.....
you just cant help yourself can you, 1 person (me) makes the dodger remark on here so in the very strange world of MK1 that means that every pools supporter is guilty by association because some read the bunker, and if you care to look on the bunker campaign section you will find people having reasoned debate, something which has become alien to this forum. a bit like when you throw your scraps out for a nibble you are not the only person capable of doing that.
we are aware of your anti football feelings on here, but you have to address the fact that just because at school you were the last kid to get picked in team games that was a long time ago and the people responsible are not necessarily the ones who go to watch pools.
so where are we off to witness various acts of appaling behaviour on trains today, remember to take some tissues and a bottle of water.
Quote from: no6bus on June 23, 2012, 07: AM
if you care to look on the bunker campaign section you will find people having reasoned debate, something which has become alien to this forum.
Find the Bunker thread where Chip-on-his-shoulder said this forum was being 'homophobic' when it criticised the SCABs and repost the replies he got then tell us who really is homophobic.
Quote from: no6bus on June 23, 2012, 07: AM
but you have to address the fact that just because at school you were the last kid to get picked in team games
I will put my 6ft & 14 stone against any of your swollen-bellied sad mates any day.
I could post some home videos of Pools away matches in the 90's to disabuse you of your error but I like watching you stumble about around lashing out at everyone who dares oppose your masterplan to suck money out of the taxpayers of Hartlepool.
If you spent a tenth of what you spend on post-match p**s-ups on gate money you would not have to run around with a begging bowl!
Quote from: steveL on June 22, 2012, 12: AM
Two things to consider:
1. The Bowls Club currently pays more rent to the council for its premises than does the football club
2. The 'Plan' calls for the council to pay for the replacement bowls club/swimming pool building
The bowls club are paying for a fully functioning building, the club are paying ground rent, hardly like with like. A bit like someone paying rent on a council house complaining their neighbour is paying less rent even though they only rent the field next door.
As for the replacement of the leisure centre, the lottery sport funds have been directed towards the Olympics for a while now, surely any council worth it's salt would be preparing a bid in light of funds due to freed up ?
Quote from: not4me on June 23, 2012, 01: AM
Funny you should say that because I noticed that 'the campaign' part of the bunker had been closed off too. Someone realised leaving their comments open to public viewing perhaps wasn't such a good idea and would probably do more harm than good. They'll be introducing pink papers next. ;)
As someone who was targeted to be "Tortured & Terrorised" by a poster on the bunker, it is a reasonably good idea for it to remain off limits to non bunkerites.
No, I'm not going to let that pass unchallenged.
When I stated that the bowls club was paying more in rent, I was more or less accused of lying about it. Then when it was confirmed with an actual figure by someone else, suddenly things were switched to attempts to justify the difference. It's quite obvious that No6 too had difficulty believing it otherwise why the accusation that I was making it up?
It just goes to show how badly researched people are and how little effort has gone in to considering the interests of other occupants of the Mill House site. There are too many people who remain entirely focused on the football club and don't give a toss about anyone else. To me this is obvious from cynical references 'not to concentrate on the ground giveaway and to start to emphasise the 'regeneration' instead' and to other Mill House occupants who are just as enthusiatic about their own sport being dismissed as 'coffin dodgers.' There's now another reference on the Bunker after someone noticed that the new plan doesn't include the existing skateboard facility - those skateboarders, we are told, can just use the gaps and steps around the buildings instead - in other words - f*c* 'em.
Yes the Bowls Club is covered and is maintained by the council but it is also a third of the size and occupied by a 'not for profit' organisation and not a private commercial company. If you don't recognise that the football club was given a sweet deal by the council all those years ago then that becomes just another example of how divorced from reality pools fans have become.
Wow as a new member i never expected so much trying to put other members down and point scoring from another message board.
surely we would all want a brand new bowls centre. leisure centre. hotels. restaurants and green belt area.
The bowls club is a major part of that area and the town and has produced world class players Mal Hughes springs to mind.
maybe the bowls club people should get to the meeting on the 3rd july to have there say.
well now that they've all been dismissed as 'coffin dodgers' I doubt that's going to happen.
The Bowls Club will be rebuilt when the time comes by the council, if it can find the money, which is no different to their position as part of this so called plan which also calls for the council to pay for the bowls centre.
bowlers........coffin dodgers.
pools fans........hooligans.
skatepark kids.......chavs.
tennis......snobs.
its only words.
Quote from: mk1 on June 23, 2012, 10: AM
Quote from: no6bus on June 23, 2012, 07: AM
if you care to look on the bunker campaign section you will find people having reasoned debate, something which has become alien to this forum.
Find the Bunker thread where Chip-on-his-shoulder said this forum was being 'homophobic' when it criticised the SCABs and repost the replies he got then tell us who really is homophobic.
Quote from: no6bus on June 23, 2012, 07: AM
but you have to address the fact that just because at school you were the last kid to get picked in team games
I will put my 6ft & 14 stone against any of your swollen-bellied sad mates any day.
I could post some home videos of Pools away matches in the 90's to disabuse you of your error but I like watching you stumble about around lashing out at everyone who dares oppose your masterplan to suck money out of the taxpayers of Hartlepool.
If you spent a tenth of what you spend on post-match p**s-ups on gate money you would not have to run around with a begging bowl!
so some 20 year old videos prove your point. oh dear oh dear.
and sorry to disillusion you but i dont drink post game. in fact i dont drink pre game as most weeks i will be at work till between 2 and 2.30.
lashing out, oh behave you little drama queen its called debate.
for masterplans to suck money out of the taxpayers see the councillors who will shortly vote for more money for themselves.
Why doesn't the Council just put it's own plan together and forget about the football club? They seem to be expected to pay for most of it anyway or be the ones to find the money for it from other sources.
No hospital. no bowls club. no leisure centre. no football club thank god we will still have the odeon.
Quote from: popgoestheweasal. on June 23, 2012, 03: PM
No hospital. no bowls club. no leisure centre. no football club thank god we will still have the odeon.
Well, until it it finally crumbles into a pile of rubble...
Quote from: steveL on June 23, 2012, 12: PM
No, I'm not going to let that pass unchallenged.
When I stated that the bowls club was paying more in rent, I was more or less accused of lying about it. Then when it was confirmed with an actual figure by someone else, suddenly things were switched to attempts to justify the difference. It's quite obvious that No6 too had difficulty believing it otherwise why the accusation that I was making it up? yes i felt the figure must be an inflated one
It just goes to show how badly researched people are and how little effort has gone in to considering the interests of other occupants of the Mill House site.agreed again which in dec 2010 long before the current debate the bowls club was being discussed on the bunker There are too many people who remain entirely focused on the football club couldnt agree more and glad you finally admit it. and don't give a toss about anyone else. To me this is obvious from cynical references 'not to concentrate on the ground giveaway and to start to emphasise the 'regeneration' instead' and to other Mill House occupants who are just as enthusiatic about their own sport being dismissed as 'coffin dodgers.' There's now another reference on the Bunker after someone noticed that the new plan doesn't include the existing skateboard facility - those skateboarders, we are told, can just use the gaps and steps around the buildings instead - in other words - f*c* 'em.
Yes the Bowls Club is covered and is maintained by the council but it is also a third of the size and occupied by a 'not for profit' organisation and not a private commercial company. If you don't recognise that the football club was given a sweet deal by the council all those years ago then that becomes just another example of how divorced from reality pools fans have become.
so whilst we are quoting figures, the bowls club pays rent and rates to the sum of £26,000 for a maintained indoor arena, the football club pays £18,000 lease per year now what about the rates on top of that? so anyone willing to estimate the rates as i dont wish to make figures up ;) nobody has said the lease wasnt a good deal.
has anyone said the idea of building a leisure centre/bowls club isnt a good one.
i really love the way a throw away line on the bunker is used to represent the feelings and thoughts of all pools supporters ;D if you had bothered to read the rest of the thread you would have found these.
Strangely enough the skate/BMX park is one of the very few places in the town that caters for the sort of kids ( boys aged 8-15) who might otherwise be out committing crimes. I cant ever recall going past it on a night or weekend when it hasnt been busy.
I cant see anything on the plans to suggest its going to exist after the new development , which has to be a massive oversight surely ?
Sat in the millhouse pub now looking out the window, pouring with rain and there are still about 15 kids using the skate park, occasionally pop over to use the toilet and they are no bother what so ever, they defo need a replacement considered on the plans
You're only further demonstrating just how ill thought out the plans are..anyway, I don't think I'll post any more on this. As someone else said on here...it's best to recognise a dead parrot when we see one and move on.
http://yoursmiles.org/csmile/goodbye/c0217.gif
Quote from: popgoestheweasal. on June 23, 2012, 03: PM
No hospital. no bowls club. no leisure centre. no football club thank god we will still have the odeon.
and greggs ;D
Interesting to see that 2500 Pools fans have taken advantage of the "Cut Price" season ticket offer, works out at £7 per game.
If they aren`t prepared to pay the full going rate to support their club, why do they expect the rate payers of Hartlepool to do so ?
But apart from that, there have been so many pie in the sky schemes bandied around over recent years & non of them have come to anything i`m inclined to agree with the "Dead Parrot" scenario.
the football club decided to price their season tickets at £155, should we all go down and say no heres £255 please take £100 more than you want off me. ::)
would you go in marksies and think that suit is only £150 but it looks really smart and give the cashier £200 of course you wouldnt, you pay the asking price.
as for the scheme why not wait and see.
If anyone wonders where Lord Haw haw has gone please read the guidelines regarding flooding, the use of duplicate accounts and user names, unnecessary use of fowl language, sexism etc - take your pick, really.
As I understand it the rates are included in the £18K. HUFC only pays a peppercorn rent viz basically nowt.
But the football clubs pays for all repairs as well don't they.
Quote from: whatabouthisthen on June 25, 2012, 11: AM
As I understand it the rates are included in the £18K. HUFC only pays a peppercorn rent viz basically nowt.
can i have a peppercorn wage of 18,000 please
Peppercorn wage for the Mayor would be a good idea.
Strictly a peppercorn rent is just that, a peppercorn. (Which in 1600 had a value equivalent to £4 today.)
Today it means no rent is actually payable.
so a definition of £18,000 a year as a peppercorn rent is stretching it a wee bit. ;D