Hartlepool First - So rattled they've gone cuckoo!

[The Great Dictator]

It is suggested that Wells voted with Labour 29 times, is it presumed that Labour would vote through 29 issues that are detrimental to the town or did Wells just decide the reasons were good enough to vote with them ?  Will HF vote against Labour on principle regardless of the recommendation ?

[Straight Talking]

I have already provided the evidence on this website that the accusation is untrue.

But just so it is clear, Geoff Lilley, the accuser and Ray Wells the accused, voted 21 times in the same direction as every other councillor present at the meetings of full council.

On 2 occasions Ray Wells voted in the same direction as every other councillor present at the meetings of full council.

Geoff Lilley was absent on 2 occasions and failed to vote on a 3rd.

Ray Wells voted differently to Geoff Lilley but in line with rest of Council on 5 occasions.

OR, GEOFF LILLEY VOTED IN LINE WITH LABOUR COUNCILLORS ON 21 OUT OF 29 OCCASIONS

[Inspector Knacker]

In reference to the titile of this topic, it's blatantly obvious who's 'rattled'.

[rabbit]

S.T.

One problem with your detailed copying and pasting of the Voting, is that it is hard to make sense of, because your own comments are mixed in with the text.

It would have been clearer if you could have used a different font for your comments.

I cannot draw any particular conclusion from it all, except perhaps that in most cases individual councillors do not vote according to their party banner (unlike the House of Commons). The Labour "lot" may invariably do so, but the others (Conservative, Lib.Dems etc) would not as a point of principle always vote against the Labour majority.

It seems as though it is the majority of the town electorate that is fixated in their devotion to the Labour Party, rather than the Labour councillors themselves. It is obvious that it is easier in general to become a Hartlepool councillor by  using the Labour Party flag, whether or not these candidates hold complete allegiance to it.

As an afterthought, it could be useful after today, when the dust settles, if:

ALL COUNCIL MOTIONS with the voting results are shown on this site immediately following the vote, so that we can all see if there is a Party Political pattern to this. If we do finish up with some new Hartlepool First Counciillors, we will be able to see their voting patterns. And probably some discussion on it!

[steveL]

No it was all the council votes at full council meetings since Feb 2011 when they started to record the votes. There have been 29 such votes since then and he's voted with Labour every time.

A lot of the votes are general administrative votes which every councilly votes for but when the issues are more controversial then you would expect a split vote and you would probably expect this to happen most frequently between the two traditionally opposing parties: the Tories and Labour.

For example: contract out the revenue and benefits would save over £10m over years but would require hindreds of thousands to set it up. This is precisely the sort of efficiency saving Cameron is suggesting whereas Labour want to hold on to those UNISON jobs and keep them in the Civic.

So you would expect Wells and his colleagues to be on one sode of the argument and the Labout lot on the other.

Guess what happened?

[notinshadow]

Is it where they were going to have to pay over a million pounds, as a company had 18 months of a contract left to run, or was that something else?

[The Shadow]

Correct LLTA. A get out payment of over 1m would have had to be paid to get out of the current contract. Ray stated on the evening before full council that the conservative group supported the amendment on R&B because they would prefer to see the current contract out and then put R&Bs out to tender.

If the current bidders could give such a good deal now, they can offer it next year too.

[rabbit]

quote "A lot of the votes are general administrative votes which every counciller votes for but when the issues are more controversial then you would expect a split vote and you would probably expect this to happen most frequently between the two traditionally opposing parties: the Tories and Labour."

So the claim that 29 votes out of 29 etc were a bit of political spin then?

Correct perhaps (already debated at length) but a typical political manipulation of the facts/
Still, that`s normal for politics.

[notinshadow]

I think that is fair comment Rabbit.

[steveL]

The point is that when an issue is split on traditional party lines then Mr Wells still votes with Labour

[notinshadow]

Steve 21 times G.L. voted the same way so what's that all about then.

[Straight Talking]

quote "A lot of the votes are general administrative votes which every counciller votes for but when the issues are more controversial then you would expect a split vote and you would probably expect this to happen most frequently between the two traditionally opposing parties: the Tories and Labour."

So the claim that 29 votes out of 29 etc were a bit of political spin then?

Correct perhaps (already debated at length) but a typical political manipulation of the facts/
Still, that`s normal for politics.

I agree with you, but the point that should also be noted, is: The political manipulation is being done by those who have tried to argue that politics should be taken out of local government decision making - bit like the pot calling the kettle b*ack a*se as my mother would say.