I am struggling with the idea of voting for UKIP. I agree that Iain Wright must not succeed in the next election - for all of the reasons discussed at length previously on this site. However, UKIP are a more right wing party than the Tories. I have looked on their website to read their policies but it is all quite vague. Reading interview transcriptions with their members and donors is very worrying. What I see are a bunch of comfortably off white middle aged men sat in the pub and putting the world to rights whilst referencing a perceived golden age of Britain in the 1950's. Their policies reflect their own interests - smokers, houses in London that will attract inheritance tax, women should be in the kichen or bedroom but not in the workplace and no foreigners. Their vote winning idea is to leave the EU so you would think that they had put a lot of work into this. On a debating programme last week the UKIP representative avoided answering the question as to what would happen to all the UK pensioners living in Spain if we withdrew from the EU and closed borders. No doubt the rest of Europe would reciprocate and kick out UK citzens. It appears that little or no thought have been given to the issue - which is just one of many that would arise.
Is there any alternative to voting UKIP?
Quote from: Stranger in a Strange ... on October 19, 2014, 11: AMwhat would happen to all the UK pensioners living in Spain if we withdrew from the EU and closed borders.
My parents live in Spain and the last thing the Spanish want is the British pensioners leaving the country. My parents pay Spanish council tax, Spanish property taxes, pay for utilities and services and spend their pensions in local shops and on local enterainment. You might as well say that if the UK left the EU then Spain would refuse to let British people go there for their holidays!
UKIP will maybe have a few MP'p but never enough to have a majority so know need worry in Spain. We just need to get shot of our MP but can't see that happening either. My Nana voted Labour so am I ! That's why Labour are not interested about Hartlepool, they could put a monkey up and he would win and for the Toiies its a lost cause.
You can get more of an idea from the link below which is a summary of their 2010 Manifesto.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/8617187.stm
. . . and a Panorama Programme on Nigel Farage
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b04lxvrd/panorama-the-farage-factor
Stanger in a strange, alternatives to UKIP why do you need an alternative, there are 2 separate elections in May 1 general election in which you can indeed vote UKIP in an attempt to get rid of Ian Wright, and 2 local elections, where a vote for UKIP depending on your Ward remove another Labour councillor as it is there are 19 Labour and by sheer numbers they win every vote, I say vote UKIP as they are a political party with a manifesto, any party without a manifesto isn't a political party its a group and will have no influence whatsoever of changing anything, also it gives you what the party stand for and where they are going, you may not like their manifesto but at least you have that choice and a vote, the Labour party for instance are socialists I don't have a problem with that but socialism is just one step removed from communism and they would like to take you there not for me I'm afraid.
Quote from: beanzontoast on October 22, 2014, 01: PMthe Labour party for instance are socialists
Now that is the best laugh I've had for a long time! I dont think you'll find many socialists in the Labour Party these days! Wel, l definitely not in any upper levels of the party anyway! Seat in the house of lords anyone? Labour is full of privately, educated, oxbridge graduates who have never had a real job (public sector or working for a think tamk, public relations company or political party researcher have never been real jobs in my opinion). The Tories look after old money, Labour look after new money and both look after themselves. The attraction of UKIP in northern constituencies is, in my opinion, summed uo by the description "left behind labour voters" those people who want a party to represent them and realise Labour no longer does! Labour dumped its "socialist" pretensions when it dumoed clause 4 and moved to the centre ground. Calling labour socialists is so far from the truth that yoh might as well say Hartlepool council chamber is filled with honorable, decent people, dedicated to public service without anybthought to how they can personaly benefit from the role they are elected to!
Quote from: beanzontoast on October 22, 2014, 01: PM
I don't have a problem with that but socialism is just one step removed from communism and they would like to take you there not for me I'm afraid.
As soon as I see anything that starts ranting about socialism=communisim=stalinism I switch straight off. I strongly advise you stay away from any such outbursts in the future because it just reminds me why I should not vote UKIP.
Quote from: beanzontoast on October 22, 2014, 01: PM
Stanger in a strange, alternatives to UKIP why do you need an alternative, there are 2 separate elections in May 1 general election in which you can indeed vote UKIP in an attempt to get rid of Ian Wright, and 2 local elections, where a vote for UKIP depending on your Ward remove another Labour councillor as it is there are 19 Labour and by sheer numbers they win every vote, I say vote UKIP as they are a political party with a manifesto, any party without a manifesto isn't a political party its a group and will have no influence whatsoever of changing anything, also it gives you what the party stand for and where they are going, you may not like their manifesto but at least you have that choice and a vote, the Labour party for instance are socialists I don't have a problem with that but socialism is just one step removed from communism and they would like to take you there not for me I'm afraid.
That post is wrong on so many levels. Labour in the council chamber are not socialists but they are a party and being a party ensured that 19 hands went up last Monday night even though half of those people would not have been unduly disappointed if Stephen Akers-Belcher had left the Civic Centre afterwards and promptly been run over by a bus.
So far UKIP have been a bit of a disappointment in the council chamber. They've waited patiently since May for the EU or immigration to come up for discussion and surprise, surprise it never has. Consequently, they haven't had a whole lot to say and have pretty much sat out the decision making process abstaining on nearly every issue other than those were PHF or Independents have taken the initiative.
Quote from: steveL on October 22, 2014, 04: PM
even though half of those people would not have been unduly disappointed if Stephen Akers-Belcher had left the Civic Centre afterwards and promptly been run over by a bus.
I suspect the bus would be the one who came off worst in any such encounter.
Looks like the first shots being fired in the let's split the vote campaign...all in the nicest possible way of course...rest easy Wrighty.
Quote from: mk1 on October 22, 2014, 04: PM
Quote from: beanzontoast on October 22, 2014, 01: PM
I don't have a problem with that but socialism is just one step removed from communism and they would like to take you there not for me I'm afraid.
As soon as I see anything that starts ranting about socialism=communisim=stalinism I switch straight off. I strongly advise you stay away from any such outbursts in the future because it just reminds me why I should not vote UKIP.
You'd have to go back to the 50s to find any socialists in the Labour Party. There were a few remnants in the 60s but the brand was hijacked soon afterwards by Oxbridge, Claret drinking 'intellectuals' offering everyone their opinions on 'the plight of the working class' from a very safe distance. Even the unions gave up their socialist credentials and dedicated themselves instead to self-interest and extortionist tactics that had little regard for anyone outside of their own membership - working class or not. Of course trade union leaders now see themselves as Chief Executives and pay themselves the equivalent salaries and pensions that go with it.
Quote from: steveL on October 22, 2014, 05: PMYou'd have to go back to the 50s to find any socialists in the Labour Party. There were a few remnants in the 60s but the brand was hijacked soon afterwards by Oxbridge, Claret drinking 'intellectuals' offering everyone their opinions on 'the plight of the working class' from a very safe distance. Even the unions gave up their socialist credentials and dedicated themselves instead to self-interest and extortionist tactics that had little regard for anyone outside of their own membership - working class or not. Of course trade union leaders now see themselves as Chief Executives and pay themselves the equivalent salaries and pensions that go with it.
Nailed it!
100% agree.
Steve L there is something wrong with your argument. A lot has changed since 2010 and I expect the U.K.I.P. manifesto for 2015 will be a lot different . Every political parties manifesto will be written to fight the 2015 GE. not the 2010 G.E. Why not wait until the U.K.I.P.. manifesto is published before making a judgement.Regarding the Panorama programme the B.B.C. ,which incidentally receives subsidies from the E.U., is not going to do Nigel Farage or U.K.I.P. any favours.
Quote from: Riddler5 on October 22, 2014, 04: PM
Looks like the first shots being fired in the let's split the vote campaign...all in the nicest possible way of course...rest easy Wrighty.
It would seem so. It looks as if UKIP want a free run and are not prepared to be realistic. I bet they will put candidates up against all the PHF ones.
UKIP refused to come to an accomadation with PHF in the last elections.
Quote from: Ryehill on October 22, 2014, 05: PM
the B.B.C. ,which incidentally receives subsidies from the E.U., is not going to do Nigel Farage or U.K.I.P. any favours.
Your paranoi does not do you any favours.
UKIP also get a EU subsidy and the Farage Family are wholly financed by the EU
Quote from: Ryehill on October 22, 2014, 05: PM
Steve L there is something wrong with your argument. A lot has changed since 2010 and I expect the U.K.I.P. manifesto for 2015 will be a lot different . Every political parties manifesto will be written to fight the 2015 GE. not the 2010 G.E. Why not wait until the U.K.I.P.. manifesto is published before making a judgement.Regarding the Panorama programme the B.B.C. ,which incidentally receives subsidies from the E.U., is not going to do Nigel Farage or U.K.I.P. any favours.
The fundamental beliefs of a political party do not change overnight or even in the space of 5 years. What changes is the level of appreciation of what they can say and what they should not say publically in order to stand any chance of getting any of their candidates elected.
I wonder where people would place Mike Reids recent 'contribution' to UKIPS cause historically. Let's say we didn't know it had happened this month.
Would people have assumed that 'anthem' was a 2010 effort? Maybe 2005? Earlier?
Maybe sometime around 1939-45 perhaps?
Strange times.
I do not want to split the voting which otherwise might lead to the eviction of Mr Wright. However, I will not vote for UKIP. I will not be the only one that feels like this. Perhaps I am hoping for a charismatic super person to stand up for us all. And yes ... I know I am naive. Also - I have no charisma otherwise I would try myself.
'Stranger'; I accept and totally understand your concerns regarding voting for a UKIP person. Believe me, as someone brought up in a Labour household and voted Labour in the past, I can share your misgivings.
I believe one has to take a step back and look at what we have and what we have been promised in this town of ours.
Both Labour and the Tories have reneged on important concerns to the 'ordinary' members of the public. (In the town and Nationally).
BOTH parties have idiots, liars, and thieves.
Along comes a 'new' party and the old guard are threatened so they join forces and try to spin ANYTHING to blacken the name of the potential usurpers.
But EACH of those regular parties have people in their ranks that think along the same lines as those in UKIP.
Some are now 'coming out' and moving (or thinking of moving) to the new party.
Yes, some of the original propaganda was anathema to right minded people. Some was considered racist etc. Those are the 'growing pains' of a new organisation. Some of it a 'knee jerk' reaction to what we have in our country today and a fear of where we are heading.
Look at where we are in Britain today; I tried for a doctors appt. today and was told 3 weeks for an appt.
Three weeks in a small town like Hartlepool. You can only imagine what it must be like in a larger town or city.
The Labour party have admitted that to open the doors the way they did was so wrong in an island as small as Britain.
Our whole infrastructure has been swamped and our welfare services are not coping.
So Labour got it wrong on immigration and (as they have admitted) the economy too.
What about the Tories? They appear to spend a lot of energy ensuring those with money, keep it.
Rich landowners applying for wind turbines that only run a third of the month and yet pay the landowners handsomely.....via our utility bills!!
They 'fine' banks that have broken the law and those fines are paid by us, the people that have accounts in the bank!
Very few lawbreakers have gone to jail, as would have occurred in 'real life'
if WE had embezzled and swindled as they have done.
We know the Tories and Labour can't be trusted, so what do we do?
In the bigger picture I'm not sure. The whole country is in a state of flux.
What I am sure about is the requirement to remove Iain Wright from Hartlepool!
If that means voting UKIP, so be it. As a number of people on here have intimated,they will hold their noses and vote UKIP.
Don't think national, think local. We have been ripped off by Labour for God knows how long....Lynda Gooding is a perfect example of the deceit and depth Labour have sunk in our town.
She is a broken woman, someone that has probably voted Labour all of her life and this is how they repay her. They are scum.
The Tories are not worth what I scrape off my shoe.
Where does that leave us? Like a lot of people my thoughts go to UKIP.
I am willing to give P. Broughton a chance to fight for us in Parliament because let's face it, Iain Wright certainly hasn't!
Why hasn't HE fought to give Lynda and her co workers the legal minimum wage they are owed? The minimum wage Labour keep banging on about.
'Strange'- we have to have change in Hartlepool and the only viable option (at this moment in time) IS UKIP.
Please don't vote to keep giving us more of the same.
How many more residents are working under a Labour yoke being paid LESS than the legal wage, or being paid 'cash in hand', no questions asked?
You call UKIP names? Go back through the back catalogue of this site and just see what the 'leading' parties in this town have given us.
Watch the scandalous video of the modus operandi of a local Labour party.
Please don't vote for more of the same.
The best quote ive heard about voting ukip came from a Clacton voter just before the by-election that gave ukip their first mp. "I'm voting UKIP" said the guy "because the Tory bloke we've got now is totally useless. Anyone would be better than him" That sums up the pribkem now facing UKIP, as they dreach the point where seats are winnable the professional politicians move in and changing from Tory or Labour to UKIP changes the colour of the rosette but very little else. If UKIP really was a "peoples army" then their candidates would be local people with long established roots in their constituencies. Ultinately the thing that might make me vite for Wright is that he is a local guy, not sime opportunist carpet bagger from Stockton and an ex-tory to boot.
In answer to a couple of points raised. The U.K.I.P. manifesto of 2015 will reiterate the parties core principle of withdrawal from the E.U. An amicable divorce is how Nigel Farage describes it. . The 2015 manifesto will have U.K.I.P.'s proposals for all major policy areas such as health, the economy,education etc. As I said earlier judge U.K.I.P. on the 2015 manifesto .
In answer to MK1 the B.B.C. have reluctantly admitted to receiving £3 million in subsidies from the E.U..
This surely must put a question mark on the B.B.C.'s impartiality.
One Direction, Iain Wright is the only Hartlepool born person to be elected as our M.P. Mandelson,Leadbitter,Kerans, Jones were all from various parts of the country. To describe Phillip Broughton as a carpet bagger from Stockton is a little O.T.T.
Quote from: Ryehill on October 23, 2014, 11: AM
.
In answer to MK1 the B.B.C. have reluctantly admitted to receiving £3 million in subsidies from the E.U..
This surely must put a question mark on the B.B.C.'s impartiality.
The Farage Family have recieved 1 million from the EU.
UKIP have recieved 7 million. Surely that 'must put a question mark on UKIP's impartiality.
At least we are starting to have a debate, I agree there have not been any socialists for a long time as far as those running the Party are concerned, this is so obvious I did not metion it, I was refering to the core values of the Labour party which is trading on its age old tradition of being socialist, and the vast majority still vote for them in a general election based on those principles, again I have no problem with it however it has been said of socialism that it's only problem is that it eventually runs out of other peoples money. It also won't take responsibility for its actiona, if I may give an example and I put this on the forum as fact and discussion not from a dislike of Labour, for the last 3 days in a certain national newspaper the NHS in Wales has been run by Labour it's so bad its a disgrace for the last15 years they have run it got noone to blame, a national newspaper who are supportive of Labour no mention , as there was no mention at the Labour party conference by Red Ed on mass immigration, nor the economy, they do it in the council chamber as another forum member explains many labour councillors may have wanted to vote with the PHF UKIP Etc but didn't . That I suggest is why I will be voting UKIP.
UKIP were sucessful in getting their first MEP I n the north east this year. The candidate was a UKIP party apperatnik who lives in Sheffield and supports Scunthorpe. If thats nor carpet bagging I dont know what is. When other party members cross the floor to UKIP then the existing candidates are shoved aside . If tnats not just swaping one professional politician for the same professional poltician then I dint know what is. UKIP is becoming just another false flap for professional politicians to wrap themseleves in.
I thought this discussion was about Hartlepool and the G.E. 2015. Getting back to Carpet Baggers now Mandelson certainly deserves that description but Phillip Broughton. Hardly.
'Vote for Wright cos he's a local guy'.
Despite all that has gone on in this town on his watch, people will still vote for an ineffectual, nodding donkey nobody. :(
Look at his remarks in his Mail column regarding low pay and how the FEMALES in Hartlepool deserve better pay than they have!!!!
Go on, tell me...he's having a laugh. He has got to be.
Where was he with regard to Lynda Gooding and the others paid LESS than the LEGAL minimum wage by a Labour councillor and backed by other LABOUR COUNCILLORS! >:(
And yet he is considered a suitable person to represent the people of Hartlepool.
And that, folks, is how and why we are at the bottom of the heap and always will be.
I despair, I really do. :(
To bring this back to Hartlepool and the GE. UKIP have chosen a former conservative councillor from Stockton. Fair enough, but why did the party need to go out of town for a candidate? What does it say about the calibre of UKIP members who do actually live in the town? Why isn't Mr Broughton standing in Stockton? Why does Hartlepool UKIP need a Stockton reject (well I assume reject as he is a former councillor! ). UKIP have two councillors were neither of them up to the job? Didnt Cllr Springer stand in 2009?
"couple of 'rotten apples' but you will then meticulously forget that once the wrongdoings of these individuals were discovered and proved they were unceremoniously sacked and kicked out of the party."
The clock must already be ticking for you then KD ;)
Quote from: kipperdip on October 23, 2014, 05: PM
He read out on air a letter (meant to be a deep secret) from the EEC to the BBC chairman which confirmed that the BBC would NEVER expose any adverse news stories about the EEC (and its successive identities).
In return for this gagging agreement the BBC would receive an annual payment.
As conspiract theories go not quiet as bad as Icke but I say total bollocks. Produce the text of this letter. I say it is fiction.
Quote from: kipperdip on October 23, 2014, 05: PM
Let me anticipate your response. You will no doubt remind every one that we have had a couple of 'rotten apples' but you will then meticulously forget that once the wrongdoings of these individuals were discovered and proved they were unceremoniously sacked and kicked out of the party.
.
Tell me again what % of UKIP MEPs have been convicted of crimes. Is it 10%? 20%?
I am glad UKIP is a party that refuses donations from big business. Is not run by an ex Public School boy who was a City Trader and does not lets its MEPs employ their wives at the public expense.
As MR Wright is the only Hartlepool MP to have been born in Hartlepool I don't see that as any sort of endorsement. Besides whats the alternative, one of the SCA-Bs!
No let's have a MP worth his money regardless of where he comes from..
Having just read the Mails article about the Long Held Belief that the hospital at Wynyard won`t now go ahead............ And looking back at the pre-election B***s**t promise by the flaccid "Member"
We should all forget our individual utopian political ideals..............
And get together to Vote out the present "Member"....if that means UKIP then so be it.
Mark1 I was not ranting on about socialism - communism as you imply I'm meerly stating a fact and I never mentioned Stallin you did which is quite a surprise really as many socialists don't like to be reminded or should I say inform those who always vote Labour that Labours real allegiance is to communist ideals and leaders, what amuses me is how they can't see it, I mean in Hartlepool for instance the civic centre is in communist red brick, Ed Milliband openly acknowledges he is a Marksist, and at the end of every Labour conference they sing the red flag which is a communist anthem, even that wasn't a rant just facts, and to continue on the debate what have the socialists done to the Welsh NHS its a disaster, one of Ed Millibands heroes is the socialist french prime minister france is a basket case of an economy, and it could be coming to a country near you.
There's a quite famous story about Uncle Joe Stalin within the Civic.
Carl Richardson was once in the back seat of a car with another councillor on the way to somewhere or other. Carl, who it's said, used to have a picture of Uncle Joe on the wall of his office when he was Chair of the Council, was espousing all the achievements of Stalin. His fellow councillor disagreed saying that it wasn't possible to praise the achievements of a man who had murdered 20 million of his own people.
"That's a blatant lie put about by The West, " said Carl, "it was only eight million."
I guess everything is relative, as they say. ;)
That's one of my favourite HBC related stories.
Although I think my personal all time favourite is the one about replacing the 200 year old trees.
That'll take some beating for utter stupidity.
Still, give her time . . .
Quote from: DRiddle on October 24, 2014, 09: AM
Although I think my personal all time favourite is the one about replacing the 200 year old trees.
That'll take some beating for utter stupidity.
I've not heard this one, care to share it please ?
Quote from: beanzontoast on October 24, 2014, 09: AM
I mean in Hartlepool for instance the civic centre is in communist red brick
I am tempted to think you meant this as a joke but given the rest of your post I think you really believe it.
Mk1 I have meerly brought the statment up for oxygen, and as a possibility even the locals call it the Kremlin, I personally like nothing better than jigsaw puzzles at first you cant tell what it is but as you build it up you see it some jigsaws you don't want to finish as it wont be at all what I thought it would be, from the observations of another to the forum how many of his own people did Stallin kill was it 20 millions or just 8 millions. What no comments on the socialist management of the Welsh NHS. Or the french economy run by another socialist.
Quote from: beanzontoast on October 24, 2014, 10: AM
how many of his own people did Stallin kill was it 20 millions or just 8 millions. .
Seeing as I have no desire to go down this road or confuse you as you are way out of your depth here (do you include Holodomor deaths as Stalins victims and are you one of the right-wing people who attribute all the Soviets WW2 deaths to Stalin not Hitler)and I want to keep it simple. Anyone who today starts claiming Socialism=Communism= Stalinism is an idiot. Plain and simple. Cold was paranoi and 1950's slogans do not fit well in our modern world.
You seem to be stuck in 50's a time-warp.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsCyC1dZiN8&list=RDEsCyC1dZiN8
If memory serves me well this was to do with the planning application to build houses next to the Raby Arms. There was a problem with 200 year old trees on the site and Marjorie James asked "can't we just move them".
She's come up with a few corkers in her time. There was another instance when I think the Mayfair Centre wanted to put up new neon signage. Marj was against the idea as she thought that it would confuse shipping and oil tankers would end up on Seaton beach.
She must have read Jamaica Inn at some stage. ;)
Quote from: steveL on October 24, 2014, 10: AM
She must have read Jamaica Inn at some stage. ;)
Only if it was serialised in the 'Socialist Worker'
Quote from: beanzontoast on October 24, 2014, 10: AM
What no comments on the socialist management of the Welsh NHS. Or the french economy run by another socialist.
Do you have any comment on the infant mortality rate in the USA as compared to Socialist Cuba?
Please share your excuses.
In the current Ebola crisis which nation is doing the most to help?
Try this:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-29732291
Cuba is now the biggest single provider of healthcare workers to the Ebola crisis in West Africa, more than the Red Cross or richer nations, the World Health Organization says.
"Cuba has provided the numbers and the people," said Jose Luis Di Fabio, the WHO representative on the Caribbean island.
"There are more human resources from Cuba than from many, many NGOs [non-governmental organisations] put together."
I expect it is all lies anyway.............
See there you go again and that was definitely a rant, the topic ia Alternatives to UKIP, I have kept to the topic, where did infant mortality rates, Ebola and Cuba come from, when you could have mentioned the mortality rates in north staffs , which brings me to paraphrase Stranger. Alternative to UKIP all the information would appear to suggest no there isn't an alternative to UKIP.
Quote from: beanzontoast on October 24, 2014, 11: AM
the topic ia Alternatives to UKIP, I have kept to the topic, where did infant mortality rates, Ebola and Cuba come from
They came from the same place as this 'on topic' claim you made earlier:
Quote from: beanzontoast on October 24, 2014, 10: AM
how many of his own people did Stallin kill was it 20 millions or just 8 millions. What no comments on the socialist management of the Welsh NHS. Or the french economy run by another socialist.
Quote from: steveL on October 24, 2014, 10: AM
If memory serves me well this was to do with the planning application to build houses next to the Raby Arms. There was a problem with 200 year old trees on the site and Marjorie James asked "can't we just move them".
She's come up with a few corkers in her time. There was another instance when I think the Mayfair Centre wanted to put up new neon signage. Marj was against the idea as she thought that it would confuse shipping and oil tankers would end up on Seaton beach.
She must have read Jamaica Inn at some stage. ;)
:o Oh Dear!!! haha
Thanks!
The EU's answer to UKIP?
"David Cameron is fighting to stop Britain being forced to pay an extra £1.7 billion to the European Union due to the success of the British economy.
The Prime Minister was ambushed with a demand from the European Commission for the extra cash because Britain's economy has performed better than other economies in Europe since 1995.
The bill is due on December 1 and Mr Cameron is particularly enraged because Brussels accountants are also preparing to give France back £790 million as its economy performed less well than Britain's."
If ever there was a reason to get out of the EU I think this has to be the biggest.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/9643193/EU-budget-who-pays-what-and-how-it-is-spent.html
It can hardly be called a left wing paper either. Note the UK was 3rd largest contributer after Germany and France.
This bit was interesting:
Last year, France contributed almost €1bn to Britain's rebate, while Italy contrbuted €718m
Oh dear, what do we make of that little Englanders?
Can we compare it to todays hysterical shrieking of:
Brussels accountants are also preparing to give France back £790 million as its economy performed less well than Britain's
Well thats interesting, money due on the 30th and a couple of days later Mark Rekless will up for election on a UKIP ticket, me thinks if he pays the money more defections to UKIP from both Labour and conservatives, and Cameron will be out. Will our Mayor still be there to steady the ship,
MK1 the newspaper article to which you refer was dated October 2012 and related to the year 2011.
Quote from: Ryehill on October 24, 2014, 01: PM
MK1 the newspaper article to which you refer was dated October 2012 and related to the year 2011.
I know. Thats why I used the words 'was' and later 'today'.
I am afraid I do not have access to bang-up-to-date accounts but can you tell me if you knew France was 'forced' to give a €1bn handout to the UK would you have complained or are you one of those type of people who only complain when it is their turn to support the friend who carried you in your time of hardship?
Are you such a freeloader?
I think you are ,once again, trying to muddy the water. The whole subject of E.U finances is very complicated but I do know that France is,historically, a net contributor. What happened in 2011 is history .What happened this week is more relevant. First of all Barroso tells Cameron that,despite wide spread concerns , free movement of labour is non negotiable and to restrict it would be illegal. A couple of days later we are told that we have to contribute another £1.8 in order to help other struggling countries, including that powerhouse economy Germany.I think that under E.U. law this demand is also illegal.Bearing in mind P.S. workers have not had a pay rise for 4 years in think that this is a demand which should be rejected.It will be very interesting to see what happens.
Quote from: Ryehill on October 24, 2014, 03: PM
. What happened in 2011 is history .What happened this week is more relevant. First of all Barroso tells Cameron that,despite wide spread concerns , free movement of labour is non negotiable and to restrict it would be illegal. A couple of days later we are told that we have to contribute another £1.8 in order to help other struggling countries, including that powerhouse economy Germany.
Perhaps you should 'research' the issue before making such an idiotic linkage?
Not that I believe for a second you are interested. For years the others give the UK handouts and come the time it is out turn to pull our weight then suddenly the rules are 'rigged'.
Would it pique your curiosity if I told you it was part of a UK recalculation of its earnings that now includes the wages of ......................prostitutes!
Does anyone know if any of the other parties are going to field decent candidates? I remember Jody Dunn in 2005 - she seemed to give them a run for their money. Or an independent candidate?
MK1 you produce data which is 3 years old then call me an idiot for linking 2 pieces of news from this week . The link is that they show the E.U. for what it is . Unworkable. Now would you be good enough to tell me in which years did this country receive hand outs from the E.U. Not rebates but handouts.
Quote from: Ryehill on October 24, 2014, 04: PM
MK1 you produce data which is 3 years old then call me an idiot for linking 2 pieces of news from this week .
Well let me put it this way. If you had more up to date information which proved me wrong you would have posted it. So far all I see is the Victor Meldrew defence- 'I don't believe it'.
Quote from: Ryehill on October 24, 2014, 04: PM
The link is that they show the E.U. for what it is . Unworkable.
Oh I get it.
We get handouts-it works fine.
We lose the handouts-it's unworkable.
Gotcha.
Quote from: Ryehill on October 24, 2014, 04: PM
Now would you be good enough to tell me in which years did this country receive hand outs from the E.U. Not rebates but handouts.
Rebate/handout. It all depends on the way you see things.
I suppose you are also one who believes Mr and Mrs Farage are not milking the system by pretending she now works for another UKIP MEP. I have asked UKIP members here how they feel about that and do you know not one has replied.
Why do you think that is?
Double standards maybe?
I have seen all these 'new dawns' before. Farage is a perfect establishment figure. Public School, City Trader. In hock to big business men who bankroll him. You may have been fooled but I am not so gullible.
Lets have a little quiz.
Which Party Leader said:
"
The nig-nogs will never vote for us"?
Quote from: Stranger in a Strange ... on October 24, 2014, 04: PM
Does anyone know if any of the other parties are going to field decent candidates? I remember Jody Dunn in 2005 - she seemed to give them a run for their money. Or an independent candidate?
It all depends what you want to achieve. You can vote for someone who has no chance of unseating Wright if you are one who wants to remain true to your principles. When the votes are counted and Wrighty is celebration his re-election at least you will know you did the 'right thing'
You can also be practical. Pick the front runner and back him. I think we all agree UKIP are not goint to get anywhere near power so what difference will it make if we have a UKIP MP who achieves nothing rather than a Labour MP who achieves nothing.
At the very least it will put a bomb under the local Labour machine. Who knows who will fall with wright.
Be realistic. A Liberal or Conservatives vote is a wasted vote and no other local character is going to dent Wrights loyal vote. Labour always win because they are the biggest minority. Remember that, the biggest
minority. If all the other minorities club together Labour are shafted. A split vote is a Labour Victory.
The Tory postion in May is going to be tricky.
Over to Shane for that one...........
As I said in an earlier post E.U. finance is a very complicated business.It appears that our P.M. and Chancellor are not fully aware of the how it works. G.B. pays a high price for membership of the E.U. currently about £10 billion a year. Each year we receive a variable rebate but never have we received back more than we put in. MK1 could you confirm that is the case or will we be subject to more of your red herrings?
Quote from: Stranger in a Strange ... on October 24, 2014, 04: PM
Does anyone know if any of the other parties are going to field decent candidates? I remember Jody Dunn in 2005 - she seemed to give them a run for their money. Or an independent candidate?
Yes, the Conservative Party will be fielding a candidate in the general election with every intention of fighting tooth and nail to take this seat from Iain Wright (as we did in 2010 and came just 5510 votes short of taking the seat vs the 13586 UKIP were short by).
Despite the rhetoric, it is only a strong Conservative candidate with a local link that can unseat Iain and that's what we intend to do.
This whole thread is basically irrelevant. If UKIP take Hartlepool next May it'll be nothing to do with the EU. It'll be nothing to do with immigration in a borough that's 98%+ white. If UKIP win it'll be because Iain wright and the Akers-belchers have made a balls of governing the safest Labour town in England.
Nothing more, nothing less.
It's a protest vote.
And if Shane stands he'll hand the seat to Iain for another 5 years.
Quote from: SRMoore on October 24, 2014, 05: PM
Despite the rhetoric, it is only a strong Conservative candidate with a local link that can unseat Iain and that's what we intend to do.
Thats it then, were fu*cked.
Quote from: Ryehill on October 24, 2014, 05: PM
MK1 could you confirm that is the case or will we be subject to more of your red herrings?
Another cop out.
Someone in UKIP must have a view on the sneaky way Nigel pretends his wife works for another MEP so they can keep the allowance. Enough of you have castigated Wright for doing it so why not admit Farage is also at it.
Recently UKIP have certainly had a disproportionate amount of press coverage considering how little presence they have in Parliament. I am sure the SNP, Green Party etc are very unhappy with that. As regards performance in Hartlepool: in 2010 UKIP managed to get 680 votes more than BNP but the Tories were still 8,000 votes ahead. Even if I try to put my concerns regarding UKIP policies to one side I really don't see them as being anywhere near being a serious contender.
Quote from: Stranger in a Strange ... on October 24, 2014, 06: PM
As regards performance in Hartlepool: in 2010 UKIP managed to get 680 votes more than BNP but the Tories were still 8,000 votes ahead. Even if I try to put my concerns regarding UKIP policies to one side I really don't see them as being anywhere near being a serious contender.
Even with 8,000 or 10,000 votes the Tories are not a serious contender.
Let's face it if the Torys put a some one up for election it doesn't have to be Shane the sheep of West Park will vote for them and split the vote so iain wrong wins and you can bet the collation will put some one forward
The new slogan for the hartlepool conservative party should be helping labour win here for 50 years.
Shane before you jump in and say you can win RMW has put a block on that with his support of the scabs most people on hear say nice things about you personally but how far behind David (I won't stand in another ward) riddle did you finish not even second I voted for him as he was the best chance for change under normal circumstances after his statement on wards I would not have
Clav, I was asked by many MANY people from Hart to stand. So keeping in mind the car crash that I could see coming between May 2014 and 2015, I did.
Personally only NOW do I think we're seeing a genuine opposition to Labour within HBC, that being attack dogs from PHF and some independents calling the Akers-Belchers to account.
The Conservatives are literally NO opposition in Hartlepool.
They're part of the problem. They're essentially councillors 20, 21 and 22 in the Labour Party.
That's there for all to see.
I agree about the Tory councillors that's why Wright why tory running for MP has no chance
Quote from: DRiddle on October 24, 2014, 08: PM
The current* Conservative Councillors* are literally NO opposition in Hartlepool.
They're part of the problem. They're essentially councillors 20, 21 and 22 in the Labour Party.
That's there for all to see.
*Fixed
The smell of change seems to have been blown in to town on the back of ex-hurricane Gonzales.
I heard an interesting story that at the last West Park residents meeting, certain Tory councillors blamed little old ME for the current situation within HBC.
Yes George, it was me who ripped up the town plan.
It was me who was a trustee at Manor Residents Association.
It was me who started a multitude of CICs all funded by the public purse.
It was me who voted to spend half a million quid on a pub in a cemetery.
Etc etc.
Only in Hartlepool . . .
If the size of your ego decided who became Hartlepool MP then no doubt about it that Cllr "Only in the ward I live" "AttackDog" Riddle would be adead cert lol
Assuming no unplanned c**k-ups, I'm expecting UKIP to win next May chiefly because Wright has lost all credibility over the hospital and because of what I would call the 'f*c* 'em all', man-in-a-monkey-suit factor.
Quote from: one direction on October 24, 2014, 11: PM
If the size of your ego decided who became Hartlepool MP then no doubt about it that Cllr "Only in the ward I live" "AttackDog" Riddle would be adead cert lol
Oh that old chant..... :-\
Quote from: steveL on October 25, 2014, 12: AM
Oh that old chant.....
From the same old chunts
Quote from: mk1 on October 24, 2014, 01: PM
This bit was interesting:
Last year, France contributed almost €1bn to Britain's rebate, while Italy contrbuted €718m
So was this: France received €10 billion from CAP.
Explain more Shane
Quote from: Mican on October 25, 2014, 10: AM
So was this: France received €10 billion from CAP.
You can salami slice any figures you care to bring up but the fact is France and Germany contributed more to the EU than the UK. That means they put in
more than the UK.
Quote from: mk1 on October 25, 2014, 02: PM
Quote from: Mican on October 25, 2014, 10: AM
So was this: France received €10 billion from CAP.
You can salami slice any figures you care to bring up but the fact is France and Germany contributed more to the EU than the UK. That means they put in more than the UK.
Ditto: This means France got a lot more out of the EU than the UK.
France and Germany are getting a rebate this year, guess who is going to pay it.
looks lie the old xenophobia is seeping through the cracks again. I knew they couldn't keep it up.
Quote from: Mican on October 25, 2014, 03: PM
France and Germany are getting a rebate this year, guess who is going to pay it.
The UK has had a rebate for many years. Guess who paid it?
Typical carping freeloader.
When we get handouts silence.
The second someone else gets a handout howls from the little englanders.
Sorry this xenophobic little Englander has the audacity to reply, the UK puts more into the Eu than they get out, that includes the rebate Magie Thatcher got back for us. Judging by the comments should I be ashamed to call myself English, should I perhaps also be ashamed to call myself British. Perhaps in your wisdom you can explain to everyone exactly what handouts we have had and how this outweighs the contributions that we have made to the EU.
Sorry to everyone else for going off on a tangent to the original post which was about The alternative to UKIP, in an earlier post I made a comment on how this latest bombshell would be taken by people and whether it was playing into UKIP's hands and for this I was once again called a rather boringly predictable little Englander. Amazing
The UK is the 3rd largest contributer. Germany and France put in more. You are falsely claiming the French are being subsidised by the UK.
Germany, Europe's largest and most powerful economy, is the biggest net contributor. It put €7.5bn more into the EU pot last year than it took out, while France's €4.89bn net payment made it the second biggest contributor.
Of the UK €3.6bn rebate France pays the lions share, €965.9m
MK1 your answer is really strange France pays for our rebate this makes it seem that we get out more than we put in but we are a net contributor to the EU so if we pay more in than get back surly it's our own money their are giving back
before any long winded retaliation will you confirm we pay more in than we get back with facts and figures
I just want an Alternative to Ian Wright.......
Lets be honest about National Government, none of the Parties give a flying f**k about the working man, and only do what they want..... regardeless as to the affects on the PAYE taxpayers.
Quote from: clav 73 on October 26, 2014, 08: AM
before any long winded retaliation will you confirm we pay more in than we get back with facts and figures
Yes we pay in more than we get out.
Germany pays in more than she gets out.
France pays in more than she gets out.
Both France and Germany pay in more than the UK.
Claims France and Germany are being subsidised by the UK are false.
Quote from: mk1 on October 26, 2014, 10: AM
Quote from: clav 73 on October 26, 2014, 08: AM
before any long winded retaliation will you confirm we pay more in than we get back with facts and figures
Yes we pay in more than we get out.
What about all the handouts we have had according to you?
So Germany and France that both have larger populations than the UK and pay more not the greatest argument to show the UK up as not paying it's way
Quote from: kipperdip on October 26, 2014, 01: PM
............
Quote from: clav 73 on October 26, 2014, 12: PM
...................
Quote from: Mican on October 26, 2014, 12: PM
...............
There you have it. Bereft of any evidence to back the initial claim that the UK is subsidising France (the favourite aunt sally) and Germany (cue theme from Great Escape) I get a mob-handed attack. No worries, I even have one hand tied behind my back to make the contest a bit more even.
Facts gentlemen, facts. Spare me the claptrap.
Quote from: mk1 on October 26, 2014, 01: PM
Quote from: kipperdip on October 26, 2014, 01: PM
............
Quote from: clav 73 on October 26, 2014, 12: PM
...................
Quote from: Mican on October 26, 2014, 12: PM
...............
There you have it. Bereft of any evidence to back the initial claim that the UK is subsidising France (the favourite aunt sally) and Germany (cue theme from Great Escape) I get a mob-handed attack. No worries, I even have one hand tied behind my back to make the contest a bit more even.
Facts gentlemen, facts. Spare me the claptrap.
Now untie your hand and tell us what the handouts are that you claim we get, with evidence.
Quote from: Mican on October 26, 2014, 03: PM
Now untie your hand and tell us what the handouts are that you claim we get, with evidence.
The handout we get from (mainly )France as part of our 'rebate'.
Like the 'handout' Mrs Farage gets by pretending she works for another (not Nigel) UKIP MEP.
Note to bored readers of this thread (the majority I would think) no UKIP member will mention or reply to any question as to why Farage 'switched' his wife to another MEP in order to pretend he was not just another corrupt politician with family on the payroll.
Quote from: mk1 on October 26, 2014, 03: PMno UKIP member will mention or reply to any question as to why Farage 'switched' his wife to another MEP in order to pretend he was not just another corrupt politician with family on the payroll.
Very rare I agree with mk1 but on this ocassion I must. As far as this is concerned Farage is like all politicians, he thinks we should do as they say and not as they do!
Quote from: mk1 on October 26, 2014, 03: PM
The handout we get from (mainly )France as part of our 'rebate'.
And the evidence?
Like the 'handout' Mrs Farage gets by pretending she works for another (not Nigel) UKIP MEP.
What exactly has this got to do with the "handouts" the UK gets?
Still confused by the fact Mk1 admits we pay in more than we get back but we are getting subsidised by France
Quote from: Mican on October 26, 2014, 04: PM
Quote from: mk1 on October 26, 2014, 03: PM
The handout we get from (mainly )France as part of our 'rebate'.
And the evidence?
Well there is a fairly straightforward way to settle this but you have to get off your ar*se and do some research yourself. I say France contributes the lions share of the UK rebate/handout.
If you think this is incorrect then show how the UK rebate is made up and prove that France is not the main contributer to our handout. I can't be any clearer.
If my facts are wrong them you have the chance to show my error.
Quote from: Mican on October 26, 2014, 04: PM
Quote from: mk1 on October 26, 2014, 03: PM
Like the 'handout' Mrs Farage gets by pretending she works for another (not Nigel) UKIP MEP.
What exactly has this got to do with the "handouts" the UK gets?
It shows that all the claims thet UKIP are a new broom and are going to introduce a brave new world of honest politicians is bol*locks.
Your leader (public school educated like all the other leaders) is just another pig with his snout in the trough.
Nigel, like all the others, puts his own family on the payroll.
Why did he have to give a job to an immigrant? Why not employ someone from the UK?
[/quote]
It shows that all the claims thet UKIP are a new broom and are going to introduce a brave new world of honest politicians is bol*locks.
Your leader (public school educated like all the other leaders)
[/quote]
How pathetic is that, I am not a UKIP member or supporter, just someone who is p****d off with getting called names like little Englander, racist and xenophbic, just because I make a comment on a thread and the way threads are hijacked and taken in different directions. Especially with comments like "Do you have any comment on the infant mortality rate in the USA as compared to Socialist Cuba?" on a thread about the alternatives to UKIP.
Anyone know if the Greens are fielding a candidate? If they get a passionate charismatic candidate, they could do ok.
Apparently three was a time when you googled barely legal you got 18 year old porn stars, now you get UKIP.
Personally I believe they are winning people over in the same way as the Conservatives did last election.
Look at me Mr Normal having a cup of tea in my kitchen promising to sort out the mess we are currently in whilst hiding the right wing jack boots ready to stamp over human rights in the basement.
Quote from: Mican on October 26, 2014, 06: PM
Especially with comments like "Do you have any comment on the infant mortality rate in the USA as compared to Socialist Cuba?" on a thread about the alternatives to UKIP.
Well lets look at that bit shall we.
The 'trigger' was these 2 posts
Quote from: beanzontoast on October 24, 2014, 10: AM
Mk1 I have meerly brought the statment up for oxygen, and as a possibility even the locals call it the Kremlin, I personally like nothing better than jigsaw puzzles at first you cant tell what it is but as you build it up you see it some jigsaws you don't want to finish as it wont be at all what I thought it would be, from the observations of another to the forum how many of his own people did Stallin kill was it 20 millions or just 8 millions. What no comments on the socialist management of the Welsh NHS. Or the french economy run by another socialist.
Quote from: beanzontoast on October 24, 2014, 09: AM
Mark1 I was not ranting on about socialism - communism as you imply I'm meerly stating a fact and I never mentioned Stallin you did which is quite a surprise really as many socialists don't like to be reminded or should I say inform those who always vote Labour that Labours real allegiance is to communist ideals and leaders, what amuses me is how they can't see it, I mean in Hartlepool for instance the civic centre is in communist red brick, Ed Milliband openly acknowledges he is a Marksist, and at the end of every Labour conference they sing the red flag which is a communist anthem, even that wasn't a rant just facts, and to continue on the debate what have the socialists done to the Welsh NHS its a disaster, one of Ed Millibands heroes is the socialist french prime minister france is a basket case of an economy, and it could be coming to a country near you.
Strange how you ignore all that. Can I ask if you share the posters claim red bricks = communist?
No matter what type of spin you put on it, it is still pathetic to assume that someone who makes a comment on a thread about UKIP is a member or supporter another racist fruitcake and is subject to the almost child like, predictably boring name calling, little Englander etc. etc. as for the other things you have highlighted, these are in response to what you have said. Simples.
Quote from: Mican on October 26, 2014, 08: PM
as for the other things you have highlighted, these are in response to what you have said. Simples.
Incorrect. They are in no way related to anything I said. I don't know if I should be insulted that anything I said could lead to a line of resoning that runs 'red bricks = communist= French socialist=Stalin'.
By the way call me what you like (many have) and I wont get in a tizzy or run to teacher. I am made of sterner stuff!
Glad to hear it, why not start your own thread, EU v UKIP, then you can extol the EU to your hearts content and call all those who vote or support UKIP anything you want and see how long the thread lasts.
I havent read all the threads to this Alternatives to UKIP, but lets see if we can't get some perspective here, it matters not weather Farage employs his wife or not its what is allowed , ok Farage was educated at a public school, he makes no secret of the fact, ed Milliband says cameron is a public school educated guy with lots of money, but he never mentions he has had the same education and privileged background, same with Clegg, its politics and they are worried very worried about UKIP, look at manifestos not the man in charge as they all have there snouts in the trough and they all tell lies however Labour and the Torys have been telling lies for 100 years.
Mican; Why bother?
You, like many others on here, are simply another 'little Englander'. ;D
Rejoice. Accept the nomenclature with open arms, because that's what we are, proud of England and proud of our heritage. ;D
Maybe the buffoons ought to go and live with the Walloons, or their friends in the Fatherland, as they seem so proud of what THEY have achieved.
It is 19 years since the accounts of the EU have been accepted as a true record of expenditure.
They sacked the lady that was becoming close to exposing the profligacy, waste and corruption.
Would YOU send money to a company that had such a bad track record in its finances, just because they SAY you owe a certain amount of money?
People on here need rail against Wilcox, Cranney et al. The EU is a million times worse and yet to some people on here, that doesn't matter or bear scrutiny. You couldn't make it up. ::)
Be proud Mican, wear 'little Englanders' with pride. I do. ;D
Once again, I don't respond to the dipsticks on here.
Quote from: grim reaper on October 27, 2014, 07: PM
It is 19 years since the accounts of the EU have been accepted as a true record of expenditure.
They sacked the lady that was becoming close to exposing the profligacy, waste and corruption.
That 'lady' was Marta Andreasen who became a UKIP MEP.
She is the UKIP MEP who then said
Farage was 'a Stalinist who was anti-women'
and was in turn slated by Farage who said she 'didn't know what she was talking about'
The murky world of UKIP in-fighting is indeed a wonder to behold.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/exmep-marta-andreasen-claims-ukip-peddles-lies-as--highprofile-tory-mp-priti-patels-father-announces-he-is-standing-for-election-8598205.html
it was Mr Farage's jealousy of potential competitors inside the "one-man band" party that had prevented candidates from having their records checked.
She said Mr Farage changed the party's constitution last year "giving him full power on everything, including the establishment of strategy, policies and selection processes for candidates for elections".
She added: "He has come out saying 'we cannot vet everybody' – well he cannot vet everybody because he wants the control himself. He should have been able to establish an administration with the means to vet, even if it's 1,700 candidates. He's the one who put candidates all over the place in as many seats as possible... He's very attractive to the media because he's a showman but he doesn't have the patience or the interest in dealing with data."So if she was right about the EU accounts then I presume she is right about Farage?
I am glad you mentioned 'dipsticks' because anyone who brought Marta up without knowing what she says about UKIP
or that she defected to the Conservatives is indeed a prize dipstick!
Marta Andreasen what a woman.
She entered the European Parliament for Ukip in 1999 and was re-elected twice, becoming party treasurer in 2007. That makes 15 years as a member of UKIP and then she decides to join the tories, was she promised something or was it because she couldn't become leader of UKIP?
And now high-profile Tory MP Priti Patel's father announces he is standing for election as a councillor for that racist party UKIP. What a strange world we live in. Do you think he has become radicalised and become a little Englander, a racist or even xenophobic?
Quote from: Mican on October 27, 2014, 10: PM
was she promised something or was it because she couldn't become leader of UKIP?
She says it was because Farage considers the party as his private property to with as he sees fit. He makes all decisions himself and has no time for anyone daring to disagree with him. I suppose that accounts for the large number of leading officials he has fallen out with.
Desperate Dan says he eats cow pie, not sure I believe that either. 15 years to decide it wasn't for her?
Quote from: Mican on October 27, 2014, 10: PM
Desperate Dan says he eats cow pie, not sure I believe that either. 15 years to decide it wasn't for her?
Not the only woman to have fallen foul of Nigels mysogyny
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ukip/10730175/Nigel-Farage-has-a-violent-temper-claims-female-MEP.html
A former Ukip MEP claims Nigel Farage left her trembling after putting his fist in front of her face during a furious outburst.
Nikki Sinclaire, who left Mr Farage's party and now sits as an independent, claimed the Ukip leader has a "violent temper" and has fallen out with a string of MEPs.
The party is hostile to women and used to hold meetings in gentlemen's clubs, Ms Sinclaire claimed.
A party spokesman declined to comment on the allegation Mr Farage had put his fist in her face during an outburst.
She told the BBC: "I've been a victim of violence from Nigel Farage, assault in the European Parliament." Still he can't be all bad, he did give his mistress a job-until Mrs Farage put a stop to it!
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/nigel-farages-mistress-says-she-attempted-suicide-after-fight-with-his-wife-9511823.html
Nigel Farage's alleged mistress attempted suicide following a bitter argument with his wife at Ukip's post-European elections bash.
Annabelle Fuller, a former party aide, said that she had been invited to the event by the leader himself, but was unceremoniously turfed out after Kirsten Farage took exception to her being there.
"I will have security drag you out by your hair if you don't leave," Mrs Farage allegedly yelled during the party at the InterContinental Westminster hotel on 26 May.
"Ms Sinclaire represents the West Midlands and is currently on bail on fraud charges relating to her parliamentary expenses."
Annabelle Fuller(Alleged mistress) strenuously denies the allegations of an affair, which came about in March after Ukip defector Nikki Sinclaire used parliamentary privilege to name her during a debate in the European Parliament.
Seems Ms Sinclaire is not quite the paragon of virtue we are led to believe.
What about "high-profile Tory MP Priti Patel's father announces he is standing for election as a councillor for that racist party UKIP." What a strange world we live in.
Quote from: Mican on October 28, 2014, 12: PM
"Ms Sinclaire represents the West Midlands and is currently on bail on fraud charges relating to her parliamentary expenses."
Seems Ms Sinclaire is not quite the paragon of virtue we are led to believe.
If you think I did not know that then you really are not paying attention.
I was waiting for you to bring it up because either way UKIP come out badly. If both these woman are so untruthful and dishonest why were they UKIP MEPs in the first place?
Cynics might say as long as they were in the tent pi*ssing out (copyright LBJ) then they were perfect UKIP cyhers. It seems Nigel was very happy to have them as it helps him mask his mysogyny but the second they criticise the Dear leader they are outed as a succubus. Nigel (the incubus)can not stand dissent.
Quote from: Mican on October 28, 2014, 12: PM
Annabelle Fuller(Alleged mistress) strenuously denies the allegations of an affair, .
I can only refer you to the quote of another very high profile kept woman MRD
'she would (say that) wouldn't she.
The information was not outed in Europe but was common knowledge long before that. As Bloom said (another failed UKIP mep and casualty of the Farage back-stab) 'Nigel's weakness is crumpet'. I suspect he was not talking about the well known breakfast pastry!
It would appear Mrs Farage was taken in by this (as you claim) invention because she rounded on Annabelle (aka 'Bellatrix' when she was posting on various internet forums) in a very public confrontation where she was heard to scream
"I will have security drag you out by your hair if you don't leave" as she booted her out of a UKIP function.
Quote from: mk1 on October 28, 2014, 12: PM
It would appear Mrs Farage was taken in by this (as you claim) invention because she rounded on Annabelle (aka 'Bellatrix' when she was posting on various internet forums) in a very public confrontation where she was heard to scream "I will have security drag you out by your hair if you don't leave" as she booted her out of a UKIP function.
It would seem the "Independant" has a diferent slant on it than yours ""I will have security drag you out by your hair if you don't leave," Mrs Farage
allegedly yelled during the party at the InterContinental Westminster hotel on 26 May.
What about "high-profile Tory MP Priti Patel's father announces he is standing for election as a councillor for that racist party UKIP." What a strange world we live in.
Quote from: Mican on October 28, 2014, 12: PM
It would seem the "Independant" has a diferent slant on it than yours ""I will have security drag you out by your hair if you don't leave," Mrs Farage allegedly yelled during the party at the InterContinental Westminster hotel on 26 May.
I await the resulting trial where the paper is forced to publish a grovelling apology................oh wait no one has complained about it being untrue.
Perhaps Bellatrix has a complaint in............I think not.
Quote from: Mican on October 28, 2014, 12: PM
What about "high-profile Tory MP Priti Patel's father announces he is standing for election as a councillor for that racist party UKIP." What a strange world we live in.
It is when you consider Nigel said
'The nig-nogs will never vote for us'
Quote from: mk1 on October 28, 2014, 01: PM
[
It is when you consider Nigel said 'The nig-nogs will never vote for us'
What about "high-profile Tory MP Priti Patel's father announces he is standing for election as a councillor for that racist party UKIP." It seems he is not only voting for them he is joining them. How strange
Quote from: Mican on October 28, 2014, 01: PM
Quote from: mk1 on October 28, 2014, 01: PM
[
It is when you consider Nigel said 'The nig-nogs will never vote for us'
What about "high-profile Tory MP Priti Patel's father announces he is standing for election as a councillor for that racist party UKIP." It seems he is not only voting for them he is joining them. How strange
It is indeed.
The British-born Indian poster girl of Ukip's youth wing sensationally quit on Tuesday, accusing Nigel Farage's party of "racist" cynicism.
Sanya-Jeet Thandi, a 20-year-old LSE student, joined the party when she was 18 and became one of the faces of the party's youth organisation. Writing in The Guardian today, she said the party had changed beyond recognition from when she joined.
"This anti-immigrant campaign undermines Ukip's claim not to be a racist party. They are turning the election into a game of 'us' and 'them'. Well, I am with 'them'," she said.
"The direction in which the party is going is terrifying: Ukip has descended into a form of racist populism that I cannot bring myself to vote for.
"This week I decided to leave the party and I will abstain from voting in the upcoming European elections. I urge other Ukip supporters to do the same
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/05/13/ukip-sanya-jeet-thandi-racism-nigel-farage_n_5316718.html?utm_hp_ref=uk-politics&ir=UK+Politics
And who can forget the star of a UKIP Election Broadcast
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-27152131
And:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2612361/Star-Ukip-advert-suspended-calling-Miliband-not-British-attacking-evil-Islam-saying-Africans-kill-themselves.html
suggested Africans should 'kill themselves off' and said Islam was an evil religion with a paedophile prophet.
Andre Lampitt also said he loathed the charity Oxfam and welcomed Aids outbreaks in Africa, saying: 'Inner peace will come when Aids does what it should and reduce African density.'
Like party leader Nigel Farage, he said he admired Russian leader Vladimir Putin,
'All Muslims need to leave Europe... or denounce their pathetic satanic religion.'
He suggested Africans should be 'left to 'kill themselves off' and suggested people should 'get over' slavery, which he said was an 'act of war'
I can keep this up forever. Have you never heard of the Streisand effect?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect
Quote from: mk1 on October 28, 2014, 02: PM
Have you never heard of the Streisand effect?
You obviously have otherwise you would answer the question instead of ducking and diving. I can ski the web and apple pick pieces and change them to fit as good as anyone.
Now what about "high-profile Tory MP Priti Patel's father announces he is standing for election as a councillor for that racist party UKIP." It seems he is not only voting for them he is joining them. How strange
Quote from: Mican on October 28, 2014, 02: PM
You obviously have otherwise you would answer the question instead of ducking and diving. I can ski the web and apple pick pieces and change them to fit as good as anyone.
But no other party than UKIP will present you with such low hanging fruit.
Quote from: Mican on October 28, 2014, 02: PM
Now what about "high-profile Tory MP Priti Patel's father announces he is standing for election as a councillor for that racist party UKIP." It seems he is not only voting for them he is joining them. How strange
Maybe he did not see this?
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/may/24/ukip-councillor-investigation-racist-homophobic-facebook-comments
Dave Small, who was elected to Redditch borough council on Friday, faces being kicked out of the party for referring to gay people as "perverts" and African immigrants as "scroungers".
In comments posted on Facebook, he also attacked BBC broadcaster Clare Balding and singer Elton John over their sexuality and referred to "our sworn enemies in the Muslim world............
He added: "Why on earth is this useless Goverment pandering to Puffs? I refuse to call them gays, as what has gay to do with Perverts like Elton John and Clair Balding who get their jollies in such disgusting ways. to sum up, they should not allowed to be married, they should go back to the closet."
In February 2013, he referred to gay people as "perverts" and expressed opposition to "poofs and dykes" being allowed to marry. And he predicted that "thousands more scroungers" would soon arrive in the UK from Mali as a result of a range of coalition government policies.
Small also complained in a November 2012 post that he was not allowed to use the term "Paki". And, in June that year, he wrote: "I visiting the city of Birmingham recently and felt like a foreigner in the city of my birth, all around me I could hear the sound of jabbering in an alien voice ... we also have the Pakistani' and the Somali's. Tell me Mr Cameron Why? the men wear their Pyjamas."
Perhaps someone should explain to Mr Small where the word 'pyjamas' comes from and what it originaly meant.
I am reminded of the Bushism
"The problem with the French is that they don't have a word for entrepreneur."
Yep' you can't use the term "Paki" but you can use the term "Aussi" strange.
Now what about "high-profile Tory MP Priti Patel's father announces he is standing for election as a councillor for that racist party UKIP." Zzzzz
Quote from: Mican on October 28, 2014, 02: PM
Now what about "high-profile Tory MP Priti Patel's father announces he is standing for election as a councillor for that racist party UKIP."
Maybe he missed this:
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ugly-face-ukip-sunday-mirror-1531879
On the forum, senior UKIP member Dr Julia Gasper branded gay rights a "lunatic's charter" and claimed some homosexuals prefer sex with animals. She added: "As for the links between homosexuality and paedophilia, there is so much evidence that even a full-length book could hardly do justice to the subject."
UKIP member Jan Zolyniak posted: "The evidence is quite clear that the percentage of homosexuals who molest children is very high and cannot be dismissed.
Douglas Denny from the Bognor Regis branch in West Sussex, used the forum to attack gay sex as "disgusting". He wrote: "What irritates me is they (sic) way they and their leftie, neo-Commie followers seem to want to force the rest of us to consider them as normal.
Another member complained about the impact of immigration on the NHS, writing: "I am informed by past media that Black Caribbean and not Black African have a higher instance of schizophrenia.
"I wonder if this is due to inbreeding on these small islands in slave times or is it due to smoking grass."
UKIP General Secretary Jonathan Arnott banned a discussion on the site on gay issues.
He wrote of his fears that someone "is going to screenshoot comments and send them to a newspaper
Now what about "high-profile Tory MP Priti Patel's father announces he is standing for election as a councillor for that racist party UKIP." Zzzzz.
By the way what is the "alternative to UKIP?"
Quote from: Mican on October 28, 2014, 03: PM
By the way what is the "alternative to UKIP?"
The Conservative Party
Hello to everyone who posts on here especially to mk1 who's posts I find very witty,amusing & clever :D This is my first post so bare with! :)
Mican I hope you do not mind if I join the thread. In answer to your question what is the "alternative to UKIP?" I would say if enough candidates could be mustered...The Green Party. They are the only party that opposes TTIP the Transatlantic Trade Investment Partnership which they consider a corporate power grab.
SR Moore Mican asked for an alternative to UKIP! ::)
Ohh an alternative to UKIP... Yeah the Greens. Just as barmy ;)
If you are obsessed with leaving the EU then there is a pretty compelling argument to vote Conservative at next May's election simply because of Cameron's promise to hold a referendum. If there is one thing we can certain about, come next May, UKIP will be able to deliver zit all.
Even Farage admits that UKIP will NOT be forming the next Government and, if his hope is that UKIP will hold 'the balance of power', what then will be his principle bargaining demand? - that the Government holds a referendum.
So what's the point? You'd have been better off voting Tory in the first place if a referendum on Europe is what you want and not run the risk of letting the none-referendum Labour crowd sneak in through the middle.
Unless, of course, you want the Government to start pulling out of the EU immediately which would prompt the question why UKIP was so afraid of putting the matter to a vote in a referendum and giving the British people a direct say on the matter - that's a bit undemocratic, isn't it?. Besides, neither the Tories or Labour are ever going to agree to that.
Now I know the UKIPPERS will all say that Cameron is a liar and can't be trusted (etc etc) but the same applies - if the Tories win the election you'll probably get a referendum - Vote UKIP and you'll get zit all on Europe.
SRMoore I suggest you read Mican's question again! 'What is the alternative to UKIP''. Cameron is pro Europe so this would rule the Tory's out. The Greens are the only Party with a policy that would resonate with UKIP members.
Quote from: SRMoore on October 28, 2014, 04: PM
Ohh an alternative to UKIP... Yeah the Greens. Just as barmy ;)
No 'barmy' would be to vote for a guy who promised to get net migration below 100,000 and then watched it rise to 238,000
Cameron has indeed stated that he is pro-European, he's made no secret of that. Though the majority of the party membership & therfore activists are not.
The Greens are more socialist than the Labour party (not hard these days I know) where as UKIP are, as Philip Broughton himself said at his party conference "NOT a centre right party". So I fail to see why you believe UKIP supporters would believe Green Policies resonate with them. I'm assuming you haven't seen their standing on renewable energy?
Welcome to the forum btw
NO!
Balmy is voting for an MP who promised us a new hospital and that our hospital would not close until the new one built and operational
Now I wonder who that was!
Green Party leader Natalie Bennett said today that the Green Party stood for "Three Yeses - yes to a referendum, yes to major EU reform and yes to staying in a reformed Europe".
http://www.greenparty.org.uk/news/2013/01/23/natalie-bennett-unveils-our-three-yeses-to-europe
So how exactly does that resonate with UKIP Members? Those three "yeses" are basically the Tory's policies. Pro Europe!
Quote from: Bimba1 on October 28, 2014, 04: PM
Hello to everyone who posts on here especially to mk1 who's posts I find very witty, amusing & clever
You will definitely get a Xmas card this year mam.
Can you just remind me which home I put you in?
Cameron's problem is his 'bas*tards'. Right wing zealots who he had succesfully neutered with his Lib Pact. These dingbats have now gained more leverage because of the even battier UKIP twonks. Cameron recognised that only a centre party can gain office. UKIP will never form a Government. Never. They are just to far to the right. Labour and Tories are going to be engaged in a bidding war up to the election. If it were up to me I would make Lab/Con come to an understanding concerning Commons votes and thus shaft UKIPs plan to be the kingmakers.
At last answers to the origin of this thread, well as good, I believe, as we are going to get.
Quote from: mk1 on October 28, 2014, 05: PMIf it were up to me I would make Lab/Con come to an understanding concerning Commons votes
and there in a nutshell is the problem with democracy in the UK today. If the two main parties "come to an understanding" then why not just become a one party state and be done with it?
Vibrant democracy requires a broad church approach, a range of views, dare I say it even views you personally don't agree with. Once all the views have been aired, discussed and debated then a vote is taken and the majority decision is victorious. If you "come to an understanding" to silence views you don't like or deny a voice to people who are so misguided as to not agree with you then you are part of the problem, not the answer.
Democracy in this country is just about finished anyway. There isn't that much real difference between the parties any more, all run by upper class, privately educated, oxbridge, professional politicians who make decisions based on the affects on their careers rather than any real conviction or principles.
Quote from: one direction on October 28, 2014, 07: PM
and there in a nutshell is the problem with democracy in the UK today. If the two main parties "come to an understanding" then why not just become a one party state and be done with it?
Reductio ad absurdum.
What I meant was to prevent a party with (say ) 20 seats crippling one with 250 seats the party with less than 250 should not align itself with the wreckers just for the devilment. It prevents the tail from wagging the dog.
As for 'democracy' I am of the opinion most people would not give a toss who ruled them as long as the regime was benign. The trouble is caused by those with strongly held views that (they believe) should not be compromised. People who wave big flags and talk about dying for their county but really mean killing for their country.
A better solution would not to allow any one party to keep power for more than (say) two terms.
Hi SteveL... I agree with both your posts.
Hi Shane... thanks for the welcome :) In response to '' So I fail to see why you believe UKIP supporters would believe Green Policies resonate with them'' I hijacked a thread between Mican & mk1 and my original post was a response to Mican's question ''what is the "alternative to UKIP?" So you have to take my respons within that context.
I responded ''I would say if enough candidates could be mustered...The Green Party. They are the only party that opposes TTIP the Transatlantic Trade Investment Partnership which they consider a corporate power grab.''
Perhaps I should have stated in my next post... This singular Policy would resonate with SOME UKIP members... in particular the disaffected voters who have left the three main Westminster parties.
Hi Hartlepudlion .. exactly! Who would vote for our present MP now ?
Hi One direction I agree with you however, I will refer you to my response above to Shane. Thanks for the link though ... a good read.
Hi mk1 ;)... You can post me an online Crimbo card here... nearer Xmas - after all #openness & transparency is paramount :D
Also your comment ''I would make Lab/Con come to an understanding concerning Commons votes and thus shaft UKIPs plan to be the kingmakers.'' is indeed a good strategy... they will have to make sure they keep some real differences though to appeal to their members. The back room boys would have to work hard on this one without resorting to 'knee jerk' reactions/panic that we have been seeing through our tv sets & other media outlets.
I think this is one where there will be no definite answer. I certainly don't have one, as I see it we have a choice of 5 parties though some may disagree.
The Conservatives - Running scared of UKIP's gathering momentum - can they be trusted?
Labour - Under Milliband and Balls I believe they will be a disaster.
Lib Dems _ Under Clegg they are a disaster and the way they are going may become a thing of the past.
UKIP - Apart from wanting us out of the EU not sure what their policies are/will be.
Green Party - Although they have the best of intensions I believe their green policies will end up bringing this country to it's knees, dependant on foreign imported power.
I cannot understand why people in this country are determined to close our coal powered power stations, when other leading countries are building more. At this moment in time we are struggling to keep the lights on and plans to bring power stations out of mothball are in the offing, what happens when they are de-commisioned?
It has been interesting reading most of the posts over the last few days. Certainly there were some unusual offshoots! Thanks to Steve L for starting me off on my UKIP research. Frankly, I have been scared by some of the things I have read about UKIP's ideas and horrified by at least one person they accept money from. I realise that every party has a lunatic fringe but UKIP appear to have more than their fair share at present. Even if UKIP were elected in a protest vote against Mr Wright - they would see it as an endosement of their policies. As a woman, I might as well vote for Sharia law to be brought in as let UKIP take us back to a 'golden age' where women only worked if single and were there to serve the needs of their menfolk.
My conclusion is that if there was a person in a monkey suit standing I might as well take a chance. (I know we have been there before). However, on the Today programme this morning they were interviewing a representative of a new old party - the Whigs. So here I go again on my research to find an individual or party to represent me .....
I'm not sure if I got the link quite right:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/whats-the-whig-idea-meet-the-man-trying-to-revive-a-centuriesold-political-party-9824371.html
Stranger in a strange... ''Even if UKIP were elected in a protest vote against Mr Wright - they would see it as an endorsement of their policies. As a woman, I might as well vote for Sharia law to be brought in as let UKIP take us back to a 'golden age' where women only worked if single and were there to serve the needs of their menfolk.''
My sentiments too . Just the thought of doing a'protest vote' for UKIP sticks in my craw!
Your Link -The Whigs I found very interesting and Waleed Ghani appears to have all the the skill sets required to head this ' New Party.' He makes some good points one being ''one would of expected the Greens to seize the initiative, but they haven't'' I agree, they should have though I do believe the Greens will make some inroads & will especially appeal to the younger generation namely University Students.
IMO, I think Ghani's mistake lies with this quote (though I do realise he is NOT up for winning the election etc etc ) '' I just think there is now this space in the centre that is a fertile ground that nobody is filling any more." The People are moving away from the main parties and the 'centre ground is no longer a winning formula ' hence the three main parties are in disarray . The main parties I believe should therefore not rely on their core vote. This post war General Election is going to be one of the most watched & interesting elections this century. the polls ,the swings, Who Knows! I don't... Yet!
Quote from: Stranger in a Strange ... on October 28, 2014, 10: PM
As a woman, I might as well vote for Sharia law to be brought in as let UKIP take us back to a 'golden age' where women only worked if single and were there to serve the needs of their menfolk.
/quote]
For want of a better understanding of UKIP's policies, can you tell me where to find this sort of information?
UKIP are comitted to abolishing the top band of income tax.
The well off are going to get a huge windfall.
Quote from: kipperdip on October 29, 2014, 06: AM
If you want to get to the website directly just plug in www.ukip.org
On the Home Page click on 'Get informed' and you will get this info.
The information is there if you seriously want to find out.
Thank you for your guidance but i am quite capable of doing things myself, I had already looked at the UKIP site which is why I said I wasn't sure about thir policies: "Inheritance tax will be abolished." How many people will this benefit? This will play into the hands of the anti Public school, privileged class groups. "UKIP will reduce Barnett Formula spending" how will they do this after what has been promised after the Scottish referendum?
Correct me if wrong but I though the topic of Alternatives to UKIP, was specifically for Hartlepool if so the comment by SR Moore is a noncence when he says the alternative to UKIP is the Conservatives, or more to the point can he tell me where they are, I can't see any in Hartlepool ,if the topic Alternatives to UKIP , are regarding the General Election then I have been working on another jigsaw, and I hate to dissapoint but there is no Alternative to UKIP both locally or nationally,
Quote from: beanzontoast on October 29, 2014, 05: PMI hate to dissapoint but there is no Alternative to UKIP both locally or nationally,
You are not disappointing me because your post is patently an untruth! I will guarentee now, and back it with hard cash if anyone would like to bet against it, that there will be at least two alternatives to UKIP on the Hartlepool General Election ballot and on most ballots in the rest of the UK.
Probably more than two in Hartlepool if the Greens, Lib-Dems and PHF put up candidates. Also wouldn't rule out an independent or even a Monster Raving Loony (as opposed to the Swivel Eyed Loony who will be the UKIP candidate of course).
What beanzontoast means, I think, is that there is no alternative
he finds acceptable to UKIP both locally or nationally. Sorry to disappoint him but there are numerous alternatives I find acceptable to UKIP.
To one direction or should it be one track mind, no disrespect intended but look at the text of my thread, the wording is quite specific, there is no alternative to UKIP is quite correct the statement does not imply otherr groups like PHF, won't throw their hat in the ring I hope they do the word in my statement Alternative is a key word, if you vote for PHF, etc what can they achive.The lib dems have been wiped out because of UKIP, the Torys are giving a referendum on the EU because of UKIP, Labour will follow with a referendum on the EU because of UKIP, a proper grown up debate will follow on immigration due to UKIP, the membership of ukip is growing, in that respect then there is no Alternative to UKIP if you want to make a difference, of course there will be other groups who can and should try and appeal to voters it does not however show they are an alternative in making a change.
Quote from: beanzontoast on October 29, 2014, 11: PMTo one direction or should it be one track mind, no disrespect intended but . . .
A sarcastic opening remark followed by no disrespect is usually shorthand for "I think you are an idiot but . . . " ;)
So with that in mind, I find it ironic that someone with views as blinkered as yours thinks I have a one track mind, I mean no disrespect when I say your argument is full of holes.
Another glaring example, "The lib dems have been wiped out because of UKIP" In my opinion the Lib-Dems will be wiped out because they sold out to the Tories in coalition and gave up their future for 5 years round the cabinet table. The ultimate example of how people put personal ambition above principles. UKIP are undoubtedly the beneficiaries of the Lib-Dem collapse but its a bit disingenuous to claim to be the cause of the collapse.
Can I suggest you ponder on the definition of "fact" used as a noun it is something that can be proved to be true. When facts are quoted they are usually supported by some form of independent verification. Compare this to the definition of "opinion" also a noun, this is a view or judgement formed about something,
not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.There are lots of alternatives to UKIP. What you are trying to do is pass off
your opinion as a factual statement.
Quote from: beanzontoast on October 29, 2014, 11: PM
To one direction or should it be one track mind, no disrespect intended but look at the text of my thread, the wording is quite specific, there is no alternative to UKIP is quite correct the statement does not imply otherr groups like PHF, won't throw their hat in the ring I hope they do the word in my statement Alternative is a key word, if you vote for PHF, etc what can they achive.The lib dems have been wiped out because of UKIP, the Torys are giving a referendum on the EU because of UKIP, Labour will follow with a referendum on the EU because of UKIP, a proper grown up debate will follow on immigration due to UKIP, the membership of ukip is growing, in that respect then there is no Alternative to UKIP if you want to make a difference, of course there will be other groups who can and should try and appeal to voters it does not however show they are an alternative in making a change.
What you are stating, inadvertently at a guess, is that UKIP is nothing more than a pressure group that can bring about change in other parties but which has no prospects of forming a Government itself. In which case, I go back to a previous post of mine in which I said that if you want a referendum on Europe then the best option is to vote and hope for a Tory Government.
Voting UKIP runs the risk of allowing in a Labour Government - and if that happens then there will be no referendum.
Absolutely spot on with that analysis, Steve.
Don't get excited, Shane. I was talking in a national context. The circumstances in Hartlepool are quite different where there is an overriding need to get rid of a useless MP and turn the seat into a marginal. Locally, using UKIP as a collection point for votes to achieve that is still the best option for the town.
[quote author=one direction l
Can I suggest you ponder on the definition of "fact" used as a noun it is something that can be proved to be true. When facts are quoted they are usually supported by some form of independent verification. Compare this to the definition of "opinion" also a noun, this is a view or judgement formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.
[/quote
Quote from one direction: "Also wouldn't rule out an independent or even a Monster Raving Loony (as opposed to the Swivel Eyed Loony who will be the UKIP candidate of course)."
Talk about the kettle calling the pot.
S R Moore, when are you going to tell your electorate in the Rural West Ward, that voting tory gets them labour councillors, and are you the choice for MP
The G.E. will not be won or lost in Hartlepool. It will be won in 30 or 40 marginal seats elsewhere in the country. This gives the voters of Hartlepool the opportunity to ditch an unpopular M.P. representing an unpopular local Labour Party.Lets look at the alternatives for your vote.
The Conservatives They have been losing support in Hartlepool for some years partly due to the activities of their local leader. Apart from Rural West they were practically wiped out in the last local elections and trailed U.K.I.P. by a huge margin in the E.U elections. They have not yet selected a candidate. Whoever is selected will have a mountain to climb.
The Lib/Dems .They are in an even worse position than the Conservatives. No candidate as yet .Could lose their deposit.
The Greens.The have had little presence in Hartlepool and ,as yet, have not selected a candidate. All political parties have a green agenda so they have lost their unque appeal.
U.K.I.P.have had a presence in Hartlepool for some years and have had success in various elections. The only party which has a candidate in place and he is making his presence felt. Nationally on a roll,which will be reflected in their local support.
Conclusion. Well I am biased but on the basis of the analysis it is a two horse race. A lot depends on the Conservatives if they have just a token candidate then Iain Wright could be in serious trouble. No Conservative candidate at all could give U.K.I.P. the advantage.
And that comment from Ryehill in a nutshell is the way it is , and if Rekless wins in November as MP on a UKIP ticket, Cameron will be like a rabbit in the headlights, and if he pays this 1.7 billion he might be gone and with him goes any referendum goes with him, and anyway he wasn't going to give you a referendum anyway he would have stood down before 2017 Cameron is not called mr slippery for nothing. Whats the betting they are going to put SR MOORE as the Tory MP for Hartlepool
I love all these false dawns.
http://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/tg001pwhwn/YG-Archive-Pol-Sunday-Times-results-241014.pdf
And:
http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/
Ashcroft: CON 31%, LAB 31%, LDEM 7%, UKIP 18%, GRN 5%
Populus: CON 34%, LAB 36%, LDEM 8%, UKIP 13%, GRN 3%
YouGov/Sun: CON 32%, LAB 32%, LDEM 8%, UKIP 18%
ComRes/Indy: CON 30%(+1), LAB 30%(-5), LDEM 9%(-1), UKIP 19%(+4), GRN 4%(nc) (tabs)
SRMoore always reminds me of the last of the mohicans. Wells has done for the Tory's in Hartlepool, it must be very difficult to be one of the last true Tory's standing. Give SR his due he has remained loyal throughout the Wells years and he will certainly see Wells out.
Trouble is SR knows he's now got to convince the good tory voters of Hartlepool that he's the real deal. Difficult to do when he's sat back over the years and said nowt. This says much about SR's loyalty to the brand, but says little for his character.
Still a decent chap at the heart of him.
To go back to the start of the thread, as Beanzontoast said "should this be about Hartlepool only", unfortunately as Ryehill commented we don't as yet know who the Tory, Lib dem or Green party candidates are, perhaps if they come up with someone with a bit of charisma and go, it may be a different story. As for now we have Wrighty who we assume will be Labours candidate and who, according to comments everyone wants out, problem is will those anti UKIP who want him out actually vote for him to keep UKIP out?
If the people who vote the same way they and their parents have voted in the past, stop and think and look at the way the party representatives in the town, local councillors, have behaved then the Labour and Tories would come a distant last. Still we will have to see.
You have to break through the 20% mark to get a place at the top table
This is last year but the basic premise is still valid.
http://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/Analysis_UKIP.html
The table below shows some scenarios of increasing UKIP strength. The baseline scenario (on line 3) is from the national opinion poll average as at 2 June 2013, which has a Labour lead over the Conservatives of 8%. This table keeps that Lab/Con lead constant, but decreases both major parties by a further 1% each step, and increases UKIP by 2%. For now, these scenarios assume that UKIP gains strength equally at the expense of both major parties
(http://img909.imageshack.us/img909/4291/Bf5rRx.png) (http://imageshack.com/i/p9Bf5rRxp)
We see that UKIP only gets more than a handlful of MPs when its support reaches 20%. Even when it is the most popular single party, it can still win fewer seats than Labour. The figures suggest UKIP would get a majority in the House of Commons when its share of the vote is around 35%. At lower UKIP support levels, the Conservatives are slightly more damaged by UKIP than Labour is.
But this is based on the assumption that UKIP gains equally at the expense of both Labour and the Conservatives, which is a questionable axiom. An alternative set of scenarious can be defined on the basis that UKIP gains solely at the expense of the Conservatives. The table below shows the results of increasing UKIP by 2% and decreasing the Conservatives by 2% each step. Labour and the Liberal Democrats are held constant
(http://img661.imageshack.us/img661/6496/mWq9Ni.png) (http://imageshack.com/i/idmWq9Nip)
So if the current polls stay the same.......................
2015 is one of those years that not only is it a general election but also local elections Hartlepool being no exception, I did not mean to imply that Hartlepool should be singled out from the rest of the country, I am meerly stating that Hartlepool has more to gain from the local elections for example the torys will not unseat ian wright as mp wells knows this and Shane might even loose his deposit, UKIP may have a chance I think it's to early but at least they have a candidate, nationally they are also not going to form a government, what they will do is make those that do govern start to listen to the voters in our sovereign nation and in that UKIP have already started to make an impact. Hartlepool locals usually vote labour there has been controversy over the mayor, and other labour councillors there are 19 plus 3 torys and they always get every issue to a vote and of course they always win the vote, if UKIP, or PHF can take wards off Labour lots of people on this forum who have been vocal that Labour Hartlepool are not fit for porpose have a real chance to make this change. After xmas if the tory mps think they will loose the election more defections to UKIP and cameron will go. I do know there are more people in Hartlepool not asking for information on UKIP they just ask for membership forms, if you want Labour out in Hartlepool it will only be done in the ballot box.
Quote from: beanzontoast on October 30, 2014, 01: PM
UKIP............ nationally they are also not going to form a government, what they will do is make those that do govern start to listen to the voters in our sovereign nation and in that UKIP have already started to make an impact..
UKIP are the UK Tea Party. Ideologues who believe they, and they alone, have simple one-stop solutions to all the country's ills. Maniacal believers who brook no opposition and call everyone who beards them 'socialists/Communists/liberals'. Insults used a lot by UKIP drones here.
I suggest you check out YouTube for clips of Christine Odonnell, Michelle Bachmann Sarah Pallin et al. With the best will in the world these 3 woman have but the most basic grasp of even the simplest of issues but they have a huge following of people who hang on their every word. They pander to the uneducated masses and ride the wave of ignorance that results.
What have the Tea Party achieved?
They have made a Republican President unelectable. The Republicans allowed themselves to be seduced by the Tea Party and thought they could ride the Tiger. Turns out all they did was allow looneys to write their policy documents with the resulting string of Presidential Election defeats.
Cameron in my eyes did the right thing with his looneys. He made a pact with the Libs to isolate them. No longer was he hostage to inbred backwoodsmen complaining about all the darkies running round the village. UKIP hope to make Cameron lurch to the right but I believe they are mistaken. The Tea Party in the USA is very vocal and has unlimited funding from a cabal of shadowy multi-billionaire backers and the complete support of that well know champion of freedom Rupert Murdoch's joke of a TV Channel Fox News. But despite this corporate lobbying they are unable to get elected in great numbers. The voters see them for what they are and they are doomed to standing on the sidelines whilst moderates govern. That is UKIPs fate. A repository for all the divisive hard right policy. A party that has delusions it speaks for us all when all it did was displace the BNP and hive off the Tory 'bas**ar*s'.
I am not worried about the claimed UKIP surge. It always ends in tears for the latest 'party of the people'.
Its always good to have debate MK1, after all this is what this forum is all about is it not and of course you are entitled to your opinion, UKIP are a relatively new party and are now the 3rd most popular party in the country, and when you think Labour are responsible for mass immigration, the huge deficit, the human rights act, an illegal war in iraq, the destruction of the Welsh NHS, and the North Staffordshire NHS crisis, and the torys for not stopping it, deary deary me , UKIP couldn't do any worse can it.
Quote from: beanzontoast on October 30, 2014, 02: PM
UKIP couldn't do any worse can it.
The last manifesto proposed to do away with any wage legislation and allow employers to negotiate
any rate with an employee. Do you support that?
I read UKIP wanted to build 2 more Aircraft carriers and
a 50% rise in defence spending?
Are UKIP going to hand out massive tax cuts for the rich?
Double prison places?
Does Nutall (excellent name!) still stand by his recent (and since deleted) comments:
"I would like to congratulate the coalition government for bringing a whiff of privatisation into the beleaguered National Health Service"
"I would argue that the very existence of the NHS stifles competition"
"the NHS ... is not fit for purpose in the 21st Century"
Quote from: Ryehill on October 30, 2014, 10: AM
[UKIP are] The only party which has a candidate in place and he is making his presence felt.
I believe it better to have
the best candidate in place 6 months before an election than
the wrong candidate in place 12 months before.
Quote from: beanzontoast on October 30, 2014, 02: PM
Labour are responsible for........ the human rights act,
That well known commie/liberal court that always looks after terrorists?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/9195074/Abu-Hamza-extradition-European-Court-of-Human-Rights-ruling-in-full.html
Quote from: beanzontoast on October 30, 2014, 02: PM
Labour are responsible for........ the human rights act,
That well known commie/liberal court that always discriminates against Christains?
http://www.theguardian.com/law/2013/jan/15/ba-rights-cross-european-court
Is John Gaunt still a UKIP member?
The man sacked from his radio job who when denied what he believes to be justice in the UK courts has a case pending in the Court of Human Rights under Article 10, the right to free speech.
More of MK 1's red herrings.He has great difficulty keeping to the subject. In an earlier post he said that U.K.I.P.would abolish inheritance tax. What he failed to mention was that U.K.I.P.propose to increase the tax allowances so that no one earning the minimum wage will pay income tax.It puts a completely different light on U.K.I.P.'s tax policy A similar policy was unveiled by the Conservatives a week after U.K.I.P. proposed it.
He also seems fixated with the 2010 manifesto .The 2010 manifestos of any party are out of date . They bear little or no relevance to the 2015 GE.He knows that so why does he keep referring to it?
A question for S.M. are the local Conservatives going to hold an open primary to select their candidate? Or have they already selected someone for the poisoned chalice.
Quote from: Ryehill on October 30, 2014, 04: PM
More of MK 1's red herrings.He has great difficulty keeping to the subject. In an earlier post he said that U.K.I.P.would abolish inheritance tax. What he failed to mention was that U.K.I.P.propose to increase the tax allowances so that no one earning the minimum wage will pay income tax.It puts a completely different light on U.K.I.P.'s tax policy
I think the more revealing fact is you failure to address my principle tax claim.
UKIP are going to abolish the top tax rates to give huge handouts to the wealthy.
I was never one to be taken in by something offering me 50p as a sop whilst his public school mates in the City get hundreds of pounds a week extra.
Quote from: Ryehill on October 30, 2014, 04: PM
He also seems fixated with the 2010 manifesto .The 2010 manifestos of any party are out of date . They bear little or no relevance to the 2015 GE.He knows that so why does he keep referring to it?
Mainly because people like you want to whitewash your extreme right-wing policies from the record. You are seriously saying that everything you believed in 5 years ago is wrong?
I am not fooled. What you mean is
those are our core beliefs but we recognise most people are against them. We will pretend otherwise in 2015 in order to get elected and then enact the 2012 manifesto
Quote from: Ryehill on October 30, 2014, 04: PM
A question for S.M. are the local Conservatives going to hold an open primary to select their candidate? Or have they already selected someone for the poisoned chalice.
Shane knows full well who will be running. He just does not want to reveal it yet.
By the way I think you and the other UKIPers believe this is a forum that naturaly sides with you when in fact you are just another political party squabbling with the other parties. Your are part of the problem not the siolution.
MK1 Spot on...couldn't have put it better myself.
You don't have to be mega-rich to pay inheritance tax .The current threshold is £325k. The average house price is £190k. So an awful lot of ordinary people fall into that bracket.
Basically I see UKIP as the anti European wing of the Conservative party. Their known policies for working people are most sinister than the Tories, for example wanting to reduce maternity leave/ pay, scrap the minimum wage, open the NHS up to even more to market forces. Make it that you would need to be employed for 2 years before you would have the right to claim against any form of discrimination. So women, young people , or older people and the disabled could be sacked because they are pregnant women or plan to have a family or because they are young or old or disabled and have no recourse to justice! I haven't mentioned discrimination on race grounds because it is pretty obvious to anyone with an average or above IQ that they are fundamentally racist all be it that they tend to accept one German woman living and working in Britain.
Sorry but that's not the type of future I want to see .
As for alternatives to UKIP yes there are loads and don't just base your options of the pile of poo that represents the main political parties in Hartlepool.
The UKIP candidate has invited everyone who read this forum to vote for him, surely he can tell us what his and his party policies are so we can make an informed choice.
Quote from: Party Pooper on October 30, 2014, 08: PM
it is pretty obvious to anyone with an average or above IQ that they are fundamentally racist
Not a UKIP member or supporter but can you tell me what makes you say the PARTY is fundamentally racist?
The torys voted again tonight in council chamber, again as a man and lady voted with Labour, no principles Shane, it is as you say dissapointing, will you say you have been selected as the tory MP for Hartlepool, simple question only requires an equally simple answer, you can of course ask a friend, its disapointingly simple yes or no
Quote from: Party Pooper on October 30, 2014, 08: PMI haven't mentioned discrimination on race grounds because it is pretty obvious to anyone with an average or above IQ that they are fundamentally racist
I have read the UKIP manifesto and there are loads of policies I disagree with but there are also things I agree with. For example their opposition to wind farms and their support of nuclear and clean burn coal technologies. Without doubt, in my opinion, the only viable way forward for keeping the lights on in the UK.
I can say the same about the Tory manifesto, Labour manifesto and even the Lib-Dem or Green manifesto. I doubt very much there is anyone other than a total fanatic who can honestly say they 100% agree with everything in the manifesto of their chosen party.
However, no where in the UKIP Manifesto have I found any policy that can be described as racist if the definition of racism relies upon skin colour or overt physical characteristics. What I have found are policies that are very nationalistic in that they support the British national interest above other national interests.
That is apparently very distasteful to some people but its NOT racist. Of course it is racist if you include in your definition of racism every person in the UK who cheered on Team GB at the Olympics? Any Englishman or woman who wants England to win the next world cup? Any Scotsman or woman shouting at Murrayfield, next February 15th, for the Scots to smash Wales in the 6 nations. Loving your country is not being a racist.
So the people on this forum posting "racist racist racist" could they actually produce a policy of UKIPs that is racist rather than nationalist. Or if you can't could you tell me why its wrong to be a nationalist? It seems to be working out very well for the Scots at the moment and no one is screaming racist at them?
One direction
Many people claim UKIP to be a racist party you only have to look on social media sites especially Twitter.
They also feel the veneer will peel away eventually due to their cosmetic makeover and their constant changes of policies.
At the last election UKIP's policy in Scotland was to abolish the Scottish Parliament a policy they have since changed.
A policy does not have to specifically mention skin colour to make it racist, have a look at their housing policy, about grandparents having to have been born locally, who do you think that discriminates against.?
There is also Nigel Farage's racist slur on Rumanian people, of course he's was "tired out "at the time. Apart from the BNP what other party leader would have made such a comment?
Then there is Nigel's wish that his party stops attracting racists. Well Nigel stop putting down cheese and you will stop attracting mice.
If a party attracts socialists but says it's not a socialist party what would you think? They must have something that attracts the socialists.
If a party attracts racists does that not make them fundamentally racists? Or is it like the free masons who claim they are not a secret society but merely a society with secrets. If UKIP are not a racist party are they a party with racists .?
I accept that not everyone who supports or who is even a member of UKIP is racist but then not everyone who is a member of the Labour Party is a socialist ( plenty of local examples of that). But why does UKIP attract more racists than any other main stream party? As for environmental issues the Greens offer more credible policies on that subject.
Quote from: Bimba1 on October 31, 2014, 02: AMMany people claim UKIP to be a racist party you only have to look on social media sites especially Twitter.
They also feel the veneer will peel away eventually due to their cosmetic makeover and their constant changes of policies.
At the last election UKIP's policy in Scotland was to abolish the Scottish Parliament a policy they have since changed.
Many people on the internet and social media sites claim Elvis is still alive, the americans never made it to the moon and Princess Diana was killed because she was pregnant with Dodi's baby. So if your standard of proof is you read it on the internet then you must also believe Wikipedia is the font of all knowledge?
have you never known any other party change its policies on anything? If labour or the tories change their policy on something then its called listening to people and responding! So why is UKIP doing the same thing a bad thing?
I have no idea what point you are trying to make about the Scottish assembly!
BUT, back to my original my original question. Can you quote a policy of UKIPs that is racist? Not just a hearsay or "everyone knows" but an actual example that you yourself can point at as a fact?
This topic is like two lines of dreadnoughts hurling broadside after broadside at each other while the shells bounce harmlessly off each others armour amid much smoke and noise.
Meanwhile Admiral Wright views events from a safe distance and sleeps a bit sounder.
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danhodges/100261889/ukip-are-now-a-racist-party/
This worth a read, very interesting point on nationalism and poor Nigel's response to those Scottish people in Edinburgh who invited him to leave their country.
Quote from: Party Pooper on October 31, 2014, 07: AM
A policy does not have to specifically mention skin colour to make it racist, have a look at their housing policy, about grandparents having to have been born locally, who do you think that discriminates against.?
There is also Nigel Farage's racist slur on Rumanian people, of course he's was "tired out "at the time. Apart from the BNP what other party leader would have made such a comment?
Then there is Nigel's wish that his party stops attracting racists. Well Nigel stop putting down cheese and you will stop attracting mice.
If a party attracts socialists but says it's not a socialist party what would you think? They must have something that attracts the socialists.
If a party attracts racists does that not make them fundamentally racists? Or is it like the free masons who claim they are not a secret society but merely a society with secrets. If UKIP are not a racist party are they a party with racists .?
I accept that not everyone who supports or who is even a member of UKIP is racist but then not everyone who is a member of the Labour Party is a socialist ( plenty of local examples of that). But why does UKIP attract more racists than any other main stream party? As for environmental issues the Greens offer more credible policies on that subject.
So many things wrong in that post that its hard to know where to start. The local housing policy discriminates in favour of people with established roots in an area, whats wrong with that? When local authorities give planning permision for new houses in places like the lake district, cornwall and other areas of high demand they often specify a percentage of the properties built are reserved for local people who otherwise could never afford to live in the area. So is that racist?
Many football clubs have a group of fans who travel to away matches soley to get into fights with rival club supporters. I know this because i read it on the internet once internet once and a guy in a pub told me it was true! So maybe football clubs should stop attracting violent thugs as supporters? i accept not everyone who goes to watch football is a violent thug looking for a punch up but hey, if the cap fits!
As regards the salledged slur on the Romanians? Well i don't usually agree with generalisations about any group, but not sure though if romanian is a race? Is french a race? I like to raise a glass to lord nelson on the 21st October so does that make me a racist? Every november i go to the cenotaph and remember british soldiers killed in wars all over the globe, does that make me a racist because i think the germans were evil and had to be stopped in 1940?
Quote from: Riddler5 on October 31, 2014, 07: AM
This topic is like two lines of dreadnoughts hurling broadside after broadside at each other while the shells bounce harmlessly off each others armour amid much smoke and noise.
Meanwhile Admiral Wright views events from a safe distance and sleeps a bit sounder.
Very true. However its good fun. Personally i'm probably going to write "none of the above" on my ballot paper as no party has convinced me they are worth voting for. I detest them all equally but i also detest people who throw around allegations of racism, sexism, homophobia, islamophobia or indeed any form of politically correct claptrap. Fanatical ukiper, fanatical ukip hater? Two sides of the same coin to me!
Response to One Direction
I hope it hasn't escaped your notice but you are posting on what people view as the internet and are inviting us not to believe what we read on the internet.
Can you explain your leaders response the the Scottish people who protested against him on the basis as he claims is because he is English! And he says that makes them racist scum, but by your definition English cannot be a race either. So how can the UKIP leader ride theses two horses at the same time? Is it nationalism or racism ? Answer seem to be that Nigel Farage is like Humpty Dumpty i.e. Is it whatever he says it is.
Must admit you have me stumped on the football analogy ! I haven't a clue what point you're trying to make.
One Direction
Have re read your post and think I understand the football point now. Did you know a lot of good football clubs do take positive steps to discourage violent thugs from their ground, a lot even actively partake in anti racist campaigns to eradicate racists form their grounds and to enlighten people.
Maybe UKIP should do likewise.
[quote author=one direction li
Very true. However its good fun. Personally i'm probably going to write "none of the above" on my ballot paper as no party has convinced me they are worth voting for. I detest them all equally but i also detest people who throw around allegations of racism, sexism, homophobia, islamophobia or indeed any form of politically correct claptrap. Fanatical ukiper, fanatical ukip hater? Two sides of the same coin to me!
[/quote]
My sentiments to a "T". Like yourself I find it unbelivable some of the comments written on here, when asked to explain themselves with a simple question they are at a loss to answer and suddenly fill the page with gobbledy gook to try to look intelligent. But the best one yet "I read it on the Internet, so it must be right".
UKIP racists? Surely not.
Janice Atkinson describing a Thai constituent as "a ting tong from somewhe
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwA681CM7QE
Bloom and Bongo Bongo land
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMym8bX4guE
And of course Nogel's famous statement:
"We will never win the nigger vote. The nig-nogs will never vote for us"
And the famous 'Queen a b**ch' incident
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/election/article-1266023/General-election-2010-UKIP-candidate-forced-quit-internet-rant-Queen.html
Patriotism is when love of your own people comes first; nationalism, when hate for people other than your own comes first
(http://img537.imageshack.us/img537/5951/mkFKqL.jpg) (http://imageshack.com/i/exmkFKqLj)
Quote from: mk1 on October 31, 2014, 11: AM
UKIP racists? Surely not
/quote]
What about "high-profile Tory MP Priti Patel's father announces he is standing for election as a councillor for that racist party UKIP." Read that on the internet, so it must be right.
Quote from: Mican on October 31, 2014, 11: AM
What about "high-profile Tory MP Priti Patel's father announces he is standing for election as a councillor for that racist party UKIP."
I supopose he thinks like black South African Police officers (kitskonstabels) who were enforcing aperthied and did not think it was in any way racist
http://www.justice.gov.za/trc/hrvtrans%5Cbeaufort/ct00360.htm
In February 1987 six "Green Flies" - that is municipal police - were recruited from Victoria West and began living in the Coloured township of Rustdene. They patrolled KwaMandlekosi, which was the township in Beaufort West, day and night.
Some times they used a Administration Board van but mostly patrolled all together on foot. They were armed with 9 mm hand guns and carried shot guns over the weekends
Everyone has a price.
Quote from: mk1 on October 31, 2014, 12: PM
Quote from: Mican on October 31, 2014, 11: AM
What about "high-profile Tory MP Priti Patel's father announces he is standing for election as a councillor for that racist party UKIP."
I supopose he thinks like black South African Police officers (kitskonstabels) who were enforcing aperthied and did not think it was in any way racist
What if he didn't think like that, what else do you "suppose" would cause the " father of high-profile Tory MP Priti Patel's to stand for election as a councillor for that racist party UKIP."
Quote from: Mican on October 31, 2014, 12: PM
What if he didn't think like that, what else do you "suppose" would cause the " father of high-profile Tory MP Priti Patel's to stand for election as a councillor for that racist party UKIP."
Family feud?
Quote from: Mican on October 31, 2014, 12: PM
What if he didn't think like that, what else do you "suppose" would cause the " father of high-profile Tory MP Priti Patel's to stand for election as a councillor for that racist party UKIP."
Racism isn't limited to the colour of skin.
Quote from: SRMoore on October 31, 2014, 01: PM
Racism isn't limited to the colour of skin.
Indeed. Bong-Bongo land is a diverse nation.
(http://img913.imageshack.us/img913/6250/K9UNyJ.jpg) (http://imageshack.com/i/pdK9UNyJj)
Quote from: Party Pooper on October 31, 2014, 08: AM
I hope it hasn't escaped your notice but you are posting on what people view as the internet and are inviting us not to believe what we read on the internet.
Actually I'm asking you not to mistake opinions and bias for facts that can be supported by evidence. When I was at university (many years ago) only answers that could be backed up by references and recognised sources were considered valid. The internet is rather like the Bible (or the Koran) in that if you look hard enough you will find something to support your position. That why sources are important. If you know the source of a story then you can at least make an estimate of how reliable it is. That is why the findings of studies funded by tabacco companies on the effects of passive smoking alway seem to be less harmfull than studies funded by anti-smoking groups!
Its like handing in an essay on the causes of WWI and saying it started when a man called Archie Duke shot an ostritch because he was hungry. Which we all know is true because Baldrick said so on Black Adder and he does Time Team as well so he must know what he's talking about!
Quote from: Party Pooper on October 31, 2014, 08: AM
Can you explain your leaders response
Your leader? I dont have a leader. I despise all politicians. I despise them even more than ignorant, bigots who pass off their opinions as facts and then try to shout down and bully anyone daring to question them.
Quote from: Party Pooper on October 31, 2014, 08: AMDid you know a lot of good football clubs do take positive steps to discourage violent thugs from their ground, a lot even actively partake in anti racist campaigns to eradicate racists form their grounds and to enlighten people.
Maybe UKIP should do likewise.
One of your previous post seemed that because Nigel Farage is trying to get rid of racist members from UKIP then this proves UKIP are a racist party otherwise Nigel wouldnt need to get rid of them? Circular logic at best. However, by that reasoning any football club that participates in anti racist activities must actually be racist because if they weren't racist they wouldn't need to participate in anti racist programmes?
Another salvo from the dreadnaught fleet to bounce off your armour? ;)
Sadly this will have to be my last on this subject, I am slowly losing the will to live reading some of the comments on this thread, perhaps this is because I am of below average IQ simply because I can't see any given evidence that UKIP are a racist PARTY. Once again I have to agree totally with what one direction says, I cannot for the life of me understand the vitriol, name calling and pathetically stupid comments regarding this party.
To me it all seems to stem from the fact that other parties unable to answer the popularity of UKIP, come up with the old story, they are racists. A lot of this also stems from our glorious leader Cameron, when he described them as "Fruitcakes and closet racists" (comments I believe will come back to bite him) ever since then people have jumped on the bandwagon, unable to think for themselves they scream racism.
Have you noticed since then how UKIP's popularity has grown, it seems that undecided voters listening to some of this unwarranted crap are then swayed to vote for them, an example of this type of thing was at the last local elections a prospective candidate commenting on UKIP on this site actually lost votes over it. Fact.
Another poster on the site then made comments about the UKIP member on Question Time, ridiculing her and yet not commenting on the Labour "babe" who can't tell her left from her right. Talking about Question Time, on last nights programme Caroline Lucas from the Green Party, when challenged about wind and solar power, said "you can store wind and sun". Helloooooo. Forgive me Lord for whatever it is I've done to deserve this.
Quote from: Mican on October 31, 2014, 02: PM
Talking about Question Time, on last nights programme Caroline Lucas from the Green Party, when challenged about wind and solar power, said "you can store wind and sun". Helloooooo. Forgive me Lord for whatever it is I've done to deserve this.
Note her critic partial agreed with her...at 55:00.. and said all sources of energy were needed.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b04n95qb/question-time-30102014
You can store wind and solar generated
power. The technology is fairly new but like everything you start small and work up.
The amount of energy in the sunlight falling on the earth's surface in a month is greater than that in all fuel reserves in the ground.
I also wonder why we are going to give billions in subsidies and profit guarantees to the (foreign owners) of the new Nuclear Power Stations.
PSI am not going to get involved in an endless argument about the minutiae of energy storage. You made a basic claim that is incorrect.
Quote from: Mican on October 31, 2014, 02: PM
, I cannot for the life of me understand the vitriol, name calling and pathetically stupid comments regarding this party.
You lie with dogs you get fleas.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29706994
UKIP has defended allowing a Polish politician criticised for a comment on hitting women into its grouping in the European Parliament.
Robert Iwaszkiewicz's decision to join the EFDD group means it has members from enough countries to increase its funding and presence in the parliament.
Leader Nigel Farage said Mr Iwaszkiewicz had made a "joke" and did not appear to be an "extremist".
UKIP added that parties had to co-operate in Europe to form groupings.
The Eurosceptic EFDD - Europe of Freedom and Direct Democracy - headed by Mr Farage, was thrown into disarray last week when one of its members, a Latvian MEP, left.
This took it below the European Parliament's threshold for forming a political grouping, which is to have at least 25 MEPs from seven different countries.
'Not acceptable'
Mr Iwaszkiewicz's decision to join means the EFDD can retain the extra funding and ability to speak in the parliament that comes with the increased status.
He recently caused controversy in Poland after telling a newspaper that men hitting their wives can "help them come back down to earth". He later claimed he was being sarcastic.
He is a member of the Polish Congress of the New Right, led by Janusz Korwin-Mikke, who has a reputation for anti-EU rhetoric and controversial views about women.
According to Polish radio, Mr Korwin-Mikke said in June that French National Front leader Marine Le Pen had judged his party "too extreme" to be an ally in Europe.
UKIP emphasised that Mr Iwaszkiewicz was joining the EDFF group in a personal capacity and that it had no association with Mr Korwin-Mikke.
Board of Deputies of British Jews vice-president Jonathan Arkush said: "The board is gravely concerned by reports that UKIP may sit in the same parliamentary grouping as a far-right Polish MEP in a bid to save its funding.
"Robert Iwaszkiewicz belongs to an extremist party whose leader has a history of Holocaust denial, racist remarks and misogynistic comments."
For Labour, shadow Cabinet Office minister Michael Dugher said: "This shows once again that UKIP do not share the values of decent working people in Britain."
But Mr Farage said: "I have found nothing in this guy's background to suggest that he is a political extremist at all. He has joined our group to save us."
He told BBC Radio 4's World at One: "If our group doesn't have a voice then every single frontline spokesman will support the new European Commission."
'Backroom politics'
Asked about Mr Iwaszkiewicz's comment on women, he replied that it had been meant as a "joke".
Questioned on why he had joined the EDFF group, Mr Iwaszkiewicz said: "Obviously Mr Farage is famous and well known not only in the parliament, but also in Poland.
"The decision to switch over to him was motivated by the intention to help out the only well-organised Eurosceptic group. It's giving a helping hand to the EFDD group."
On his comments about hitting women, he said: "Of course this was also twisted by the media. What I said wasn't the same as what appeared in the press. Of course, myself as well as my party are against family violence. I don't see where the problem is."
UKIP deputy leader Paul Nuttall told BBC Two's Daily Politics the comment was "not acceptable", but said: "He's said that he said it as a joke and it was misconstrued by the Polish media."
Mr Nuttall, speaking from Brussels, said the nature of the European Parliament, with the need for parties to join larger cross-national groups to get a better hearing, meant having to "cooperate with people you wouldn't necessarily cooperate with in the UK".
He added: "That's the nature of European politics. It's not like the UK. Unfortunately it's realpolitik out here."Could not be clearer. An MEP from a party
judged too extreme by the French National Front is welcomed into UKIPs arms.
UKIP was desperate to keep the handouts it gets from Europe and it will ally itself with anyone to keep the cash. Its all about money.
Quote from: mk1 on October 31, 2014, 03: PM
You can store wind and solar generated power. The technology is fairly new but like everything you start small and work up.
Fairly new? In 1859, the French physicist Gaston Plante (1834-1889) invented a battery made from two lead plates joined by a wire and immersed in a sulfuric acid electrolyte; this was the first storage battery. (Source http://www.enchantedlearning.com/inventors/page/b/battery.shtml)
but as you say, lets not get involved in an endless argument about the minutiae of energy storage. :)
Quote from: one direction on October 31, 2014, 03: PM
Fairly new? In 1859, the French physicist Gaston Plante (1834-1889) invented a battery made from two lead plates joined by a wire and immersed in a sulfuric acid electrolyte; this was the first storage battery
I am sorry to tell you battery technology is not the way forward. I suggest you do a bit more googling.
Epic fail.
Quote from: mk1 on October 31, 2014, 03: PMIts all about money.
And there it is, right at the end. The truth.
Its not just the truth about UKIP. Its the truth about the Tories, its the truth about Labour, its the truth about the Lib-Dems, its the truth about all politicians from the lowest Parish councillor to the Prime Minister. They are all as bad as each other its just some people hate UKIP so direct their bile and vitriol at UKIP, some people hate the Tories so direct their bile and vitriol at the Tories, some people hate the Lib-Dems so direct their bile and vitriol at the Lib-Dems, etc, etc. etc. However, all the established parties fear UKIP because they are starting to take a slice of the cake and if UKIP have more then the established parties have less. It really is all about the money!
Does anyone really think Carswell and Reckless joined UKIP because they had an attack of principle? No they joined because they realised UKIP were going to be a threat to their seats in May so the bes way to keep their place on the gravy train was to move to the UKIP carriage. Its all about the money (and the perks and the pension) in the end.
Now I too have had enough of this thread. Time for my dreadnought to sail away and look for new targets to fire my meaningless broadsides at...... ;)
Quote from: one direction on October 31, 2014, 03: PM
Time for my dreadnought to sail away
I think you mean 'steam away'.
Sly digI would be the last person to claim a unrealiable energy source (wind) could power all sea travel for 4000 years. Everyone knows that it could not possibly work.
Next people will be claiming water-wheels could power sawmills!
Quote from: mk1 on October 31, 2014, 03: PM
Note her critic partial agreed with her...at 55:00.. and said all sources of energy were needed.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b04n95qb/question-time-30102014
I am not going to get involved in an endless argument about the minutiae of energy storage. You made a basic claim that is incorrect.
Sorry couldn't resist, using the link you kindly provided, the woman clearly states, "you can store wind and sun" nothing about power just wind and sun. End of.
Quote from: Mican on October 31, 2014, 04: PM
using the link you kindly provided, the woman clearly states, "you can store wind and sun" nothing about power just wind and sun. End of.
Yes she probably believes you can store lightning as well.....................
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ol09wUI21lc
Quote from One Direction
I detest them all equally but i also detest people who throw around allegations of racism, sexism, homophobia, islamophobia or indeed any form of politically correct claptrap. Fanatical ukiper, fanatical ukip hater? Two sides of the same coin to me!
One direction your above quote would carry some credibility if you slagged off all equally and didn't only defend the fascist UKIP .
I note your lack of any comment on the clips supplied by MK1, and I repeat my comment UKIP are fundamentally racist.
Thanks for pointing out you went to university, was there a point to that revelation or did you just feel you should clear up any misunderstanding anyone on here had?
So, everyone will be voting Green, yes?
No Michael, we won't.
Quote from: mrb on November 01, 2014, 06: PM
So, everyone will be voting Green, yes?
The Green Party lost all credibility in Hartlepool when they chose 'Iris the Virus' Ryder as their by-election candidate in 2004.
One direction your comment regarding politicians are all in it for the money is a little simplistic as it is more like the politics of envy, and clearly you have not read some of my comments on the subject, I will repeat im sure MK1 will correct me with dates. I must be clear to you all I am not playing tribal politics here just interesting stuff from history, prior to 1831 england was ruled by a french king Charles 1 he wasn't by accounts a good king but at that time kings had the divine right to rule by god along came a british civil war Oliver Cromwell and eventually came our parliament we have today I say this arrangement is better, I do agree with one direction regarding the money aspect up to a point, I won't go into what Parliament is there to do and the role of councillors, I will move on to the political party s all political partiys apart from UKIP have what are called Whips their role is to whip MPs into voting the way the party leaders want lets take immigration as a reference it's pretty interesting Labour signed for it to happen and any MP whose constituants did not want this would be whipped to vote for it, my point being all political party's have a core agenda in which they do not waver from now as there are really only 2 political party's yes its not a typo then it follows if you look for the core values you can see the direction of travel, so back to immigration Labour introduced mass immigration WHY. the torys did nothing to stop it and they said they would again WHY. Once you identify the core values the jigsaw becomes clear, Labour and Conservatives at leader level are playing good cop bad cop, lets see if we can get to the core values on this forum without resorting to tribal hysteria.
I notice SRMoore won't be voting for the Greens, I also notice he is a Maverick Conservative, if he has noticed lately the conservatives in Hartlepool council always vote with Labour, then he will no doubt be a maverick and vote Labour in may, while wearing a blue rosette, he has been quiet on the voting habits of tory councillors, the picture is still hazy but whats the betting he will stand as an MP.
'Maverick Conservative'. Interesting description that - wonder what it means. At a guess, I would say that it's a Conservative that keeps voting with Labour even when it means going against traditional Conservative policy. That would suggest that, in a Hartlepool context, it's not Shane, a proper Conservative, that is the maverick but each of his parties three councillors.
I've been much more vocal than you and your fellow UKIP councillor has been since being elected.
I appreciate how desperate you are to know whether I will be standing since I refused UKIPs three offers of being their Prospective Parliamentary Candidate in Hartlepool before you settled for Phil, and you'll have known the answer if you actually bothered to take notice. Since you haven't I guess you'll have to wait for the official announcement.
This thread just gets more and more laughable the longer it goes on.
#prayforHartlepool
Whatever you think as an individual about UKIP, when it comes to May 7th 2015 we should set that aside & use the opportunity to throw a spanner into the works of the Hartlepool Constituency Labour Party.....
They select the candidate as MP ( look who they gave us ) the "Member" they also have a massive influence on "The Dear Leader & The TorLab Mob" & look at the embarassment they have brought on the town.
Apart from that... the thread is boring the A**e of me & lots of others who use this forum.
The two UKIP councillors have been carried along on the national UKIP wave and, as I always thought, now that they are in the council have proven to be struck dumb when faced with matters that do not involve Europe, Immigration or Muslims.
While a lot of people appear to be considering holding their noses and voting UKIP in the General Election in order to rid the town of a careerist and disingenuous MP, my worry is that the same people may make the mistake of carrying over that sentiment to the local elections which will be held on the same day. It seems clear to me that more of the same detached kind of councillors as UKIP have so far provided us with would not be in the interests of the town. What is needed is an active opposition willing and able to challenge the actions of the local Labour group and their co-conspirators, the Tories.
That challenge is coming from Independents and PHF at the moment with the two UKIP councillors dithering silently on the side-lines. People need to think very carefully next May about what is best for Hartlepool. Voting UKIP to get rid of Wrighty and giving the national parties a reality check might well be the best thing to do but on their performance so far in council, the last thing the town needs right now is more UKIP councillors.
I think it would be useful if Guy Fawkes would define what is the exact role of a ward councillor. Only then can we judge whether the two U.K.I.P. councillors are as ineffective as he suggests.
Quote from: SRMoore on November 03, 2014, 02: PM
I've been much more vocal than you and your fellow UKIP councillor has been since being elected.
I appreciate how desperate you are to know whether I will be standing since I refused UKIPs three offers of being their Prospective Parliamentary Candidate in Hartlepool before you settled for Phil, and you'll have known the answer if you actually bothered to take notice. Since you haven't I guess you'll have to wait for the official announcement.
I hope you do stand in May, Shane - everyone needs a hobby. If I was you though, I would post-date your deposit cheque and make sure you don't use a Niramax cheque like your mate Ray did to pay for his charity dinner table.
Quote from: Ryehill on November 04, 2014, 09: AM
I think it would be useful if Guy Fawkes would define what is the exact role of a ward councillor. Only then can we judge whether the two U.K.I.P. councillors are as ineffective as he suggests.
You mean you don't know?
Quote from: Ryehill on November 04, 2014, 09: AM
I think it would be useful if Guy Fawkes would define what is the exact role of a ward councillor. Only then can we judge whether the two U.K.I.P. councillors are as ineffective as he suggests.
To represent and champion the personal interests of their ward constituents and to represent their more general interests in council by active participation, which basically means not sitting there like two bookends leaving others to do the work.
Bookends. Weird because I used the same word to describe them just the other day.
UKIP's problem in the council is that it was two of the foot soldiers that got elected last may leaving the lieutenants in the long grass. They do have more alert people in their ranks.
Quote from: steveL on November 04, 2014, 10: AMUKIP's problem in the council is that it was two of the foot soldiers that got elected last may leaving the lieutenants in the long grass. They do have more alert people in their ranks.
Ah you have highlighted what many people think is a huge problem with democracy! The wrong people keep getting elected! I blame the voters, if they can't vote sensibly then they shouldn't be allowed to vote at all or they should only be offered one candidate to vote for then they don't need to make choices that they are obviously not up to making correctly.
The 2 ukip councillors only got elected in may, and the only points to come before the council of note are the Mayor, the Domes, and the landfill, I won't mention the domes or landfill, as for the mayor UKIP want him just where he is as membership to UKIP is on the in Hartlepool, and im told the main reason is the mayor, long may he continue to do what he does best make himself a liability and embarrassment not only to himself and the role of mayor but to the labour party and Hartlepool and the residents who live there.
Beanz, your in a parallal universe.
FFS............. close this thread............. Plzzzzzzzzzz
Quote from: Mican on October 28, 2014, 12: PM
Annabelle Fuller(Alleged mistress) strenuously denies the allegations of an affair, which came about in March after Ukip defector Nikki Sinclaire used parliamentary privilege to name her during a debate in the European Parliament.
She is no longer denying it:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5073475/Political-aide-Nigel-Farage-comes-clean-affair.html
Nigel Farage has systematically lied about an affair with a vulnerable former aide spanning more than a decade, The Mail on Sunday can reveal.
The former Ukip leader is accused of breathtaking hypocrisy by his former lover, who claims she was told to keep the relationship secret at all costs – to help save Brexit.
In an explosive interview, Annabelle Fuller, once a speechwriter and trusted adviser to the party and its leader, says she and Farage, a married man more than 17 years her senior, had a sexual relationship dating from 2004 until October last year.